Tories

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

There is one reason and one reason only that the Conservatives have had such a surge and that is the British propaganda machine owned 90%+ by tories and hard right lunatics.

It infuriates me when I hear people (mostly too old to use internet types) use BBC soundbites to back up their argument for switching from Labour to Tory.

Keep reiterating that Theresa May is a strong, stable leader (despite the tories BNP manifesto) and that Corbyn is an incompetent clown (despite the majority of the electorate supporting his manifesto) and people will accept it as absolute fact, without giving it a second thought or doing any research of their own! :fuming:

I think you do yourself no favours when you reduce things to such simplistic terms. If that is the extent of your analysis, you will never be able to counter the many reasons why people choose to vote tory.

The irony is that you are demonstrating the kind of close mindedness that youre accusing others of.

[Moulin Yarns]

Laura Kuenssberg (https://twitter.com/bbclaurak)


May at #pmqs (https://twitter.com/hashtag/pmqs?src=hash) today - 38 mentions of strong, 11 mentions of stable, 5 mentions of chaos, 4 mentions of “coalition of chaos”

Hard questions answered, that would probably be 0

[Hibbyradge]

There is one reason and one reason only that the Conservatives have had such a surge and that is the British propaganda machine owned 90%+ by tories and hard right lunatics.

It infuriates me when I hear people (mostly too old to use internet types) use BBC soundbites to back up their argument for switching from Labour to Tory.

Keep reiterating that Theresa May is a strong, stable leader (despite the tories BNP manifesto) and that Corbyn is an incompetent clown (despite the majority of the electorate supporting his manifesto) and people will accept it as absolute fact, without giving it a second thought or doing any research of their own! :fuming:

Remember when Corbyn became leader and people said that he was unelectable?

I wonder if the political leanings of the media, and the electorate, played any part in that assessment. :hmmm:

I wonder if this country's politics is as simplistic as you think, why there wasn't a similar surge when Cameron couldn't win a majority in 2010 and only managed a slim majority in 2015.

Corbyn's past, his politics and relentless incompetence explain his poll ratings, much more than your naive analysis.

[High-On-Hibs]

Remember when Corbyn became leader and people said that he was unelectable?

I wonder if the political leanings of the media, and the electorate, played any part in that assessment. :hmmm:

I wonder if this country's politics is as simplistic as you think, why there wasn't a similar surge when Cameron couldn't win a majority in 2010 and only managed a slim majority in 2015.

Corbyn's past, his politics and relentless incompetence explain his poll ratings, much more than your naive analysis.

No. I remember when Corbyn became leader and the MSM said he was unelectable (like a broken record) along with his blairite MPs. Followers of the same man who is telling people to vote Tory over Corbyn. :faf:

But please... if people on here have such well thought out arguements for backing the tories, then by all means state your claims here, i'll be happy to prove every single one of them wrong.

[speedy_gonzales]

But please... if people on here have such well thought out arguements for backing the tories, then by all means state your claims here, i'll be happy to prove every single one of them wrong.
Alrighty then.

If you are in a financially privileged position, the Tories will do their utmost to protect that!

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Remember when Corbyn became leader and people said that he was unelectable?

I wonder if the political leanings of the media, and the electorate, played any part in that assessment. :hmmm:

I wonder if this country's politics is as simplistic as you think, why there wasn't a similar surge when Cameron couldn't win a majority in 2010 and only managed a slim majority in 2015.

Corbyn's past, his politics and relentless incompetence explain his poll ratings, much more than your naive analysis.

Agree with everything you listed in the last paragraph and would add that the party's failure to fully support Corbyn is another reason that he is unelectable. I quite like him personally but I wouldn't want such a disfunctional party running the country.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

No. I remember when Corbyn became leader and the MSM said he was unelectable (like a broken record) along with his blairite MPs. Followers of the same man who is telling people to vote Tory over Corbyn. :faf:

But please... if people on here have such well thought out arguements for backing the tories, then by all means state your claims here, i'll be happy to prove every single one of them wrong.

What an arrogant claim.

Ok, prove this wrong. I dont think corbyn is fit to lead our country because he is a CND pacifist and so i think he is weak on defence

[CropleyWasGod]

No. I remember when Corbyn became leader and the MSM said he was unelectable (like a broken record) along with his blairite MPs. Followers of the same man who is telling people to vote Tory over Corbyn. :faf:

But please... if people on here have such well thought out arguements for backing the tories, then by all means state your claims here, i'll be happy to prove every single one of them wrong.
Here's one:- the Tories are more likely than Labour to keep taxes at their current level, and not increase them.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

No. I remember when Corbyn became leader and the MSM said he was unelectable (like a broken record) along with his blairite MPs.

You avoided my other points, but that suggests that you only listen to the MSM and Blairite MPs.

Loads of ordinary people, Labour Party members or not, knew that as soon as he won the leadership contest on the back of Miliband's idiotic £3 membership plan, that Labour was in trouble.

If people are so easily manipulated by the media, how come Cameron didn't win in 2010 and only won a slim majority in 2015?

[ronaldo7]

Triple lock on pensions will be on the way out after this election. Prepare for minimal rises OAP's. Tories putting the boot in again.

https://t.co/QGEO6hiI6A

[ronaldo7]

I've nothing to add to the political ongoings here but I despise the memes and incorrect names (Tony Bliar/Wee Fat Eck etc) folk post either here or on other social media platforms, but how is it people are quick to pick on the (alleged) unionist posts here but nobody bats an eyelid when someone posts a fake(I'm hoping) BBC screenshot of a search party for a missing PM?

I believe Theresa has been doing her electioneering in factories throughout the country, with bussed in Tory activists. Hardly going out the meet the people, as she continually alluded to recently.

I believe she is in Scotland today. Somewhere near Aberdeen, a major city in our country. It's just that she's decided to meet the "Public" in a small village hall in Crathes.

She's scared of the day she's never seen.

18461 18462

The hall was booked as a children's party. Tories Lying again.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I believe Theresa has been doing her electioneering in factories throughout the country, with bussed in Tory activists. Hardly going out the meet the people, as she continually alluded to recently.

I believe she is in Scotland today. Somewhere near Aberdeen, a major city in our country. It's just that she's decided to meet the "Public" in a small village hall in Crathes.

She's scared of the day she's never seen.

18461 18462

The hall was booked as a children's party. Tories Lying again.

Who cares?

[ronaldo7]

Who cares?

I do. That's why I posted it, if that's ok with you?

I'd rather our Prime Minister came to Scotland and actually met the voters, and allowed journalists to ask some questions about her policies rather than getting spin on the BBC and Sky that she was somehow taking the message to the masses, when they're actually Tory party activists, in a wee shed about 17 miles from Aberdeen.

You might be happy for your politics to be seen on the side of a bus, however, I'm not.

Last time I checked, this was a public forum, where people put up lots of different things. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[northstandhibby]

I do. That's why I posted it, if that's ok with you?

I'd rather our Prime Minister came to Scotland and actually met the voters, and allowed journalists to ask some questions about her policies rather than getting spin on the BBC and Sky that she was somehow taking the message to the masses, when they're actually Tory party activists, in a wee shed about 17 miles from Aberdeen.

You might be happy for your politics to be seen on the side of a bus, however, I'm not.

Last time I checked, this was a public forum, where people put up lots of different things. If you don't like it, don't read it.

http://www.counterfire.org/images/stories/apr2017/nicola-sturgeon-bus.jpg

http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/UK%E2%80%99s-biggest-depot-625x360.jpg

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/E15C/production/_91029675_sturgeonbus1.jpg

:greengrin

glory glory

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I do. That's why I posted it, if that's ok with you?

I'd rather our Prime Minister came to Scotland and actually met the voters, and allowed journalists to ask some questions about her policies rather than getting spin on the BBC and Sky that she was somehow taking the message to the masses, when they're actually Tory party activists, in a wee shed about 17 miles from Aberdeen.

You might be happy for your politics to be seen on the side of a bus, however, I'm not.

Last time I checked, this was a public forum, where people put up lots of different things. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Ditto.

I just find your constant propoganda a bit tiresome. I enjoy debates, but you are like a nat-bot. Getting politics from the side of a bus would be preferable to recycling SNP lines amd psosting links to inane news releases.

You are SNP, we get it, but at least engage on issues, not by regurgitating some line you got from the SNP, trying to make out that the tories are terrible for doing something that every other political party does too.

[ronaldo7]

Ditto.

I just find your constant propoganda a bit tiresome. I enjoy debates, but you are like a nat-bot. Getting politics from the side of a bus would be preferable to recycling SNP lines amd psosting links to inane news releases.

You are SNP, we get it, but at least engage on issues, not by regurgitating some line you got from the SNP, trying to make out that the tories are terrible for doing something that every other political party does too.

Once again, you want to discuss the SNP on a thread about the Tories. YOU seem obsessed with them.

Nowhere in the post you quoted about "Who Cares", does it mention anything to do with the SNP, but everything to do with the Prime Minister and how she's avoiding debate.

You seem a bit mixed up, and your personal digs are rather tiresome to say the least. As I've said, just don't read them.:na na:

https://twitter.com/rjcurran2/status/858311383728967681

[mmmmhibby]

Once again, you want to discuss the SNP on a thread about the Tories. YOU seem obsessed with them.

Nowhere in the post you quoted about "Who Cares", does it mention anything to do with the SNP, but everything to do with the Prime Minister and how she's avoiding debate.

You seem a bit mixed up, and your personal digs are rather tiresome to say the least. As I've said, just don't read them.:na na:

https://twitter.com/rjcurran2/status/858311383728967681

You are a Nat-Bot. Totally obsessed with the SNP.

[pacoluna]

You are a Nat-Bot. Totally obsessed with the SNP.

I'm guessing you are resorting to this because Ronaldo is winning the debate 😂😂 nat-bot how tiresome.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Once again, you want to discuss the SNP on a thread about the Tories. YOU seem obsessed with them.

Nowhere in the post you quoted about "Who Cares", does it mention anything to do with the SNP, but everything to do with the Prime Minister and how she's avoiding debate.

You seem a bit mixed up, and your personal digs are rather tiresome to say the least. As I've said, just don't read them.:na na:

https://twitter.com/rjcurran2/status/858311383728967681

Because everything you post is from an SNP campaign point of view.

But fair enough, and of course you can post what you like, i just find it a bit duplicitous that you post all these things trying to create negativity about all other parties, when you are clearly doing it because you are an undercover SNP activist, spreading news that is negative to all other parties.

Just seems a bit underhand to me.

[marinello59]

Because everything you post is from an SNP campaign point of view.

But fair enough, and of course you can post what you like, i just find it a bit duplicitous that you post all these things trying to create negativity about all other parties, when you are clearly doing it because you are an undercover SNP activist, spreading news that is negative to all other parties.

Just seems a bit underhand to me.

That's a ridiculous post. R7 clearly supports the SNP, so what? That doesn't make him an undercover anything when he is so upfront about it. One of the worst posts I have seen on here, play the ball not the man.

[allmodcons]

Ditto.

I just find your constant propoganda a bit tiresome. I enjoy debates, but you are like a nat-bot. Getting politics from the side of a bus would be preferable to recycling SNP lines amd psosting links to inane news releases.

You are SNP, we get it, but at least engage on issues, not by regurgitating some line you got from the SNP, trying to make out that the tories are terrible for doing something that every other political party does too.

This is a woman who won't partake in a live TV debate because she'd rather get out and debate the issues with voters!

Does her little trip to Crathes look like she's engaging with the Scottish voting public to you?

As one of the tweets correctly states, has a National Leader ever traveled so far NOT to meet the people she is supposed to represent.

IMO anybody considering voting Conservative should be careful what they wish for.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That's a ridiculous post. R7 clearly supports the SNP, so what? That doesn't make him an undercover anything when he is so upfront about it. One of the worst posts I have seen on here, play the ball not the man.

There is a difference between supporting a party and being an activist on its behalf. Dping the latter without admitting it is, imo, underhand.

But thats just my opinion.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

This is a woman who won't partake in a live TV debate because she'd rather get out and debate the issues with voters!

Does her little trip to Crathes look like she's engaging with the Scottish voting public to you?

As one of the tweets correctly states, has a National Leader ever traveled so far NOT to meet the people she is supposed to represent.

IMO anybody considering voting Conservative should be careful what they wish for.

Im not defending the PM. I think its very clear that she is a woman who is VERY considered in everyrhing she does, amd given that she is not the most media savvy politician in the world i think its quite obvious that she does keep uncontrolled situations to an absolute minimum.

I know of a very senior BBC journo who refused her requests for meetings when she was home secretary because she was so good at giving nothing away to them, so tightly did she stick to script.

But pleasr dont anyone think for a second that a tightly controlled media stategy, invited audiences and very sanitised events isnt something that all parties do. And the SNP are better than most parties at most things, they can do ot as well as anyone.

As i have said many times, they all act in very similar ways.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

This is a woman who won't partake in a live TV debate because she'd rather get out and debate the issues with voters!

Does her little trip to Crathes look like she's engaging with the Scottish voting public to you?

As one of the tweets correctly states, has a National Leader ever traveled so far NOT to meet the people she is supposed to represent.

IMO anybody considering voting Conservative should be careful what they wish for.

Amd how can a tweet possibly be correctly stating something if it is merely asking a question?

[Mr Grieves]

There is a difference between supporting a party and being an activist on its behalf. Dping the latter without admitting it is, imo, underhand.

But thats just my opinion.

Ronaldo has always been open and honest about his political leanings, which is more than can be said about some posters.

[northstandhibby]

Im not defending the PM. I think its very clear that she is a woman who is VERY considered in everyrhing she does, amd given that she is not the most media savvy politician in the world i think its quite obvious that she does keep uncontrolled situations to an absolute minimum.

I know of a very senior BBC journo who refused her requests for meetings when she was home secretary because she was so good at giving nothing away to them, so tightly did she stick to script.

But pleasr dont anyone think for a second that a tightly controlled media stategy, invited audiences and very sanitised events isnt something that all parties do. And the SNP are better than most parties at most things, they can do ot as well as anyone.

As i have said many times, they all act in very similar ways.

I happen to think Kezia is one of the few who comes across as genuinely unscripted. Always impressed with her passion and rhetoric to be perfectly honest with you. Obviously does her fair share of photo opps like everyone else but always seems to be able to speak openly and candidly.

glory glory

[marinello59]

There is a difference between supporting a party and being an activist on its behalf. Dping the latter without admitting it is, imo, underhand.

But thats just my opinion.

Rubbish.
Making a post on here in support of your chosen party makes you an activist. I disagree with R7 all the time on here but he is upfront and honest . You owe him an apology for suggesting otherwise.

[northstandhibby]

This is a woman who won't partake in a live TV debate because she'd rather get out and debate the issues with voters!

Does her little trip to Crathes look like she's engaging with the Scottish voting public to you?

As one of the tweets correctly states, has a National Leader ever traveled so far NOT to meet the people she is supposed to represent.

IMO anybody considering voting Conservative should be careful what they wish for.

Whats your favourite Jam song of all time bud?

glory glory

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I happen to think Kezia is one of the few who comes across as genuinely unscripted. Always impressed with her passion and rhetoric to be perfectly honest with you. Obviously does her fair share of photo opps like everyone else but always seems to be able to speak openly and candidly.

glory glory

I agree she is prob the most normal. But shea hamstrung by her party at the moment!

[DaveF]

Because everything you post is from an SNP campaign point of view.

But fair enough, and of course you can post what you like, i just find it a bit duplicitous that you post all these things trying to create negativity about all other parties, when you are clearly doing it because you are an undercover SNP activist, spreading news that is negative to all other parties.

Just seems a bit underhand to me.

Prove it or shut up about it eh?

You don't like his posts so put him on ignore if the best you can do is make unfounded digs.

I'm no fan of your posting style to be honest but that does not mean I'll accuse you of being a card carrying member of xyz party.

[northstandhibby]

I agree she is prob the most normal. But shea hamstrung by her party at the moment!

Agree with you bud. Kezia is a talented orator and certainly appears to be unscripted and genuine. The problem for Kezia as you rightly state is the way the party's standing had deteriorated prior to her taking over. However parties recover and with a new national leader with guile and poise such as David Milliband taking over post Corbyn there's no reason to think the party won't recover at least some of its lost ground.

glory glory

[Hibrandenburg]

Im not defending the PM. I think its very clear that she is a woman who is VERY considered in everyrhing she does, amd given that she is not the most media savvy politician in the world i think its quite obvious that she does keep uncontrolled situations to an absolute minimum.

I know of a very senior BBC journo who refused her requests for meetings when she was home secretary because she was so good at giving nothing away to them, so tightly did she stick to script.

But pleasr dont anyone think for a second that a tightly controlled media stategy, invited audiences and very sanitised events isnt something that all parties do. And the SNP are better than most parties at most things, they can do ot as well as anyone.

As i have said many times, they all act in very similar ways.

"I'm not defending the PM" and then you do just that.

[northstandhibby]

"I'm not defending the PM" and then you do just that.

I should really let South speak for himself however I don't think he was defending the PM. He was making a point of her being quite hopeless as a debater and that's why they keep her out of the limelight as much as they can. She's a control freak and totally useless.

glory glory

[ronaldo7]

Because everything you post is from an SNP campaign point of view.

But fair enough, and of course you can post what you like, i just find it a bit duplicitous that you post all these things trying to create negativity about all other parties, when you are clearly doing it because you are an undercover SNP activist, spreading news that is negative to all other parties.

Just seems a bit underhand to me.

Can you tell me what there is in post #261 that mentions the SNP?

I've been open and honest on here regarding my party persuasion. I like the SNP, so what? Others don't, It's Normal.

Your constant referencing of me being a NotBot is rather tiresome as I've said, so maybe you can just accept that people have different views to you.

It's normal.

Now if we could get back to post #261 about the PM distancing herself from the electorate, that would be good.

The other option, is to put me on your Ignore list, and we're done.:aok:

[ronaldo7]

You are a Nat-Bot. Totally obsessed with the SNP.

Childish.

[ronaldo7]

I'd have said this was a parody account, but, no, it's not.:greengrin

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/858423066254356480

[northstandhibby]

I'd have said this was a parody account, but, no, it's not.:greengrin

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/858423066254356480

https://spectatorblogs.imgix.net/wp-content/blogs.dir/11/files/2017/03/46.jpg?auto=compress,enhance,format,redeye&crop=faces,entropy,edges&fit=crop&w=820&h=550

:greengrin

glory glory

[allmodcons]

Whats your favourite Jam song of all time bud?

glory glory

Probably 'Down in the Tube Station at Midnight' but all depends on mood. 'To Be Someone' and 'Little Boy Soldiers' are up there too. If Tories win landslide GE it'll be 'Going Underground'.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree she is prob the most normal. But shea hamstrung by her party at the moment!
Hamstrung she is.

I have personal experience of her. When she was first elected to Holyrood, she had one particular policy view which was at odds with the party line, but in tune with a group I was involved in at the time. The party "had a word ", she flipped 180 on her view.....and we were dumped.

Call it opportunism or expediency, but after that chastening experience, I wasn't surprised when she became leader.



Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[allmodcons]

Amd how can a tweet possibly be correctly stating something if it is merely asking a question?

When it's a rhetorical question of course.

[northstandhibby]

Probably 'Down in the Tube Station at Midnight' but all depends on mood. 'To Be Someone' and 'Little Boy Soldiers' are up there too. If Tories win landslide GE it'll be 'Going Underground'.

I reckon that's probably 'the' iconic Jam track from probably one of the best and most relevant bands ever (its all personal taste of course). That's mine too although Thats Entertainment is a close second.

Maybe encourage more bands to sing from the soul in protest rather than the absolute dross they call music nowadays.

glory glory

[Glory Lurker]

Hamstrung she is.

I have personal experience of her. When she was first elected to Holyrood, she had one particular policy view which was at odds with the party line, but in tune with a group I was involved in at the time. The party "had a word ", she flipped 180 on her view.....and we were dumped.

Call it opportunism or expediency, but after that chastening experience, I wasn't surprised when she became leader.



Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Whit? She's no really a Hibbie?:panic:

[northstandhibby]

Hamstrung she is.

I have personal experience of her. When she was first elected to Holyrood, she had one particular policy view which was at odds with the party line, but in tune with a group I was involved in at the time. The party "had a word ", she flipped 180 on her view.....and we were dumped.

Call it opportunism or expediency, but after that chastening experience, I wasn't surprised when she became leader.



Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Out of curiosity what was the one particular policy view CWG?

glory glory

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

"I'm not defending the PM" and then you do just that.

Explaining and defending are different.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Can you tell me what there is in post #261 that mentions the SNP?

I've been open and honest on here regarding my party persuasion. I like the SNP, so what? Others don't, It's Normal.

Your constant referencing of me being a NotBot is rather tiresome as I've said, so maybe you can just accept that people have different views to you.

It's normal.

Now if we could get back to post #261 about the PM distancing herself from the electorate, that would be good.

The other option, is to put me on your Ignore list, and we're done.:aok:

I never said it mentioned the SNP, but you posted it as an attack on the SNPs main opponent. Its like those attack adds in the USA.

As i have said above, i think there is a difference between being a supporter of a party and actually camapaigning for it.

And just as you can post what you like, i can call you out on it.

As for the issue, see above, i agree she keeps things very controlled. Its the political equivalent of passing it back to the goalie (in the days that passbacks were allowed). Public debates generally suit the opposition, especially when they are miles behind / have no chance of winning. They are playing it very safe with the PM, but its probably the right strategy.

Do you think other parties dont have media strategies? Why else even have sturgeon fronting the campaigb instead of angus robertson? Because they have deemed her more of an asset, to get more votes.

[Mr Grieves]

I'd have said this was a parody account, but, no, it's not.:greengrin

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/858423066254356480

That is odd. Basically, the Tories realise May isn't very good, but they also know they're pretty much guaranteed to win the election (barring any major screw ups!), so they're keeping her away from the general public, journalists, opposition politicians, TV debates, civilisation.

It'll be interesting to see if there's a shift towards Labour and if that changes May's campaign?

[ronaldo7]

I never said it mentioned the SNP, but you posted it as an attack on the SNPs main opponent. Its like those attack adds in the USA.

As i have said above, i think there is a difference between being a supporter of a party and actually camapaigning for it.

And just as you can post what you like, i can call you out on it.

As for the issue, see above, i agree she keeps things very controlled. Its the political equivalent of passing it back to the goalie (in the days that passbacks were allowed). Public debates generally suit the opposition, especially when they are miles behind / have no chance of winning. They are playing it very safe with the PM, but its probably the right strategy.

Do you think other parties dont have media strategies? Why else even have sturgeon fronting the campaigb instead of angus robertson? Because they have deemed her more of an asset, to get more votes.

The trouble is, that you continue to mention them, even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them. You're obsessed with them.:wink:

Back to the Tories then, she is being manoeuvred though the election up until now, very well, if you're a Tory. They're doing a grand job of keeping her away from the public.

I want different things to you from this election. I want it to be open and transparent, where you seem to want a North Korean/Chinese type election, closed and manufactured. Each to their own eh.:aok:

On your last paragraph. You do know that Nicola is the leader of the SNP, right. Happy to help.:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

That is odd. Basically, the Tories realise May isn't very good, but they also know they're pretty much guaranteed to win the election (barring any major screw ups!), so they're keeping her away from the general public, journalists, opposition politicians, TV debates, civilisation.

It'll be interesting to see if there's a shift towards Labour and if that changes May's campaign?

If Labour go for the jugular on the way she's being kept back from Joe Public, they'll gain traction. IMO

https://t.co/YU5hYa8f29

[Hibrandenburg]

The trouble is, that you continue to mention them, even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them. You're obsessed with them.:wink:

Back to the Tories then, she is being manoeuvred though the election up until now, very well, if you're a Tory. They're doing a grand job of keeping her away from the public.

I want different things to you from this election. I want it to be open and transparent, where you seem to want a North Korean/Chinese type election, closed and manufactured. Each to their own eh.:aok:

On your last paragraph. You do know that Nicola is the leader of the SNP, right. Happy to help.:greengrin

This, and also that the back pass to the goalie is still allowed :greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The trouble is, that you continue to mention them, even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them. You're obsessed with them.:wink:

Back to the Tories then, she is being manoeuvred though the election up until now, very well, if you're a Tory. They're doing a grand job of keeping her away from the public.

I want different things to you from this election. I want it to be open and transparent, where you seem to want a North Korean/Chinese type election, closed and manufactured. Each to their own eh.:aok:

On your last paragraph. You do know that Nicola is the leader of the SNP, right. Happy to help.:greengrin

You have no idea what i want from this election.

But i know enough about election campaigning to be left cold by it all. Its all stage managed pish, there are very few encounters with real people. And why would they take the risk, nobody wants a gordon brown 'bigot' moment.

I didnt even know they had elections in china and n Korea, but im sure your experience of them is first hand, and you arent just regurgitating some banal nonsense from Twitter, so i bow to your superior knowledge.

Yeah i know that, thanks. Was just making a point about electoral strategies, which i think you probably know.

[ronaldo7]

You have no idea what i want from this election.

But i know enough about election campaigning to be left cold by it all. Its all stage managed pish, there are very few encounters with real people. And why would they take the risk, nobody wants a gordon brown 'bigot' moment.

I didnt even know they had elections in china and n Korea, but im sure your experience of them is first hand, and you arent just regurgitating some banal nonsense from Twitter, so i bow to your superior knowledge.

Cheers:greengrin

Yeah i know that, thanks. Was just making a point about electoral strategies, which i think you probably know.

So you knew that Nicola was the leader of the SNP, but you tried to make out she's been put front and centre for them because she's better than Angus Robertson?

Enjoy the rest of the week end mate.:aok:

[xyz23jc]

I'd have said this was a parody account, but, no, it's not.:greengrin

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/858423066254356480

Jesus wept! I'll have nightmares noo man! That takes toaldying to a stratospheric new dimension! FFS! :greengrin:shocked::no way::fuming::jamboak:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

So you knew that Nicola was the leader of the SNP, but you tried to make out she's been put front and centre for them because she's better than Angus Robertson?

Enjoy the rest of the week end mate.:aok:

Yes. A deliberate strategy to put her ahead of the snp deputy leader and the snp leader at Westminster, not to mention the former leader, because she is more recognisable and popular. Im not sure what is controversial about that mate?!

[Moulin Yarns]

I'd have said this was a parody account, but, no, it's not.:greengrin

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/858423066254356480

Wait until you see the one of them going round the doors. Nobody is answering. Hilarious.

[snooky]

Wait until you see the one of them going round the doors. Nobody is answering. Hilarious.

It is hilarious. Jehovah's witnesses had more success I believe.

What's difference between Elvis & Theresa May?
Elvis was spotted by a few people in Scotland.

[Moulin Yarns]

When Theresa met Ruth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5hHsEsV-b8

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I read somewhere lately (may even have been here) that most or all of the scandinavian countries have centre right governments?

[grunt]

Wait until you see the one of them going round the doors. Nobody is answering. Hilarious.https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/858792986985062400

[ronaldo7]

https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/858792986985062400

:thumbsup:

How about this one from a 12yr old.

https://twitter.com/Jonny_Nabb/status/858730368937197568

[grunt]

:thumbsup:

How about this one from a 12yr old.

https://twitter.com/Jonny_Nabb/status/858730368937197568There should be laws against such misrepresentation.

[JeMeSouviens]

Whats your favourite Jam song of all time bud?

glory glory

That's Entertainment I think, or a little more left field, I love this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGxXbFNjY0

[JeMeSouviens]

Agree with you bud. Kezia is a talented orator and certainly appears to be unscripted and genuine. The problem for Kezia as you rightly state is the way the party's standing had deteriorated prior to her taking over. However parties recover and with a new national leader with guile and poise such as David Milliband taking over post Corbyn there's no reason to think the party won't recover at least some of its lost ground.

glory glory

:confused:

Can't be the eternally hopeless Dugdale, is there another Kezia on the scene I've missed? :confused:

... and for good measure, :confused:

[northstandhibby]

That's Entertainment I think, or a little more left field, I love this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGxXbFNjY0

Loved it. Gold indeed. :aok:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4b48Jx7Un0

You've most probably seen it before but hey ho, like this one with N Gallacher.

glory glory

[CropleyWasGod]

Out of curiosity what was the one particular policy view CWG?

glory glory

We'll keep our powder dry on that until it's politically expedient to do so.

We have learned from the best (Margo, for example), and from the worst......:wink:

[northstandhibby]

:confused:

Can't be the eternally hopeless Dugdale, is there another Kezia on the scene I've missed? :confused:

... and for good measure, :confused:


:greengrin

glory glory

[ronaldo7]

Tory Benefit cap starting to hurt.

https://t.co/4Pz5B6PRrw

[grunt]

Tory Benefit cap starting to hurt.

https://t.co/4Pz5B6PRrwSadly the Tories will view that as success.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Sadly the Tories will view that as success.

So people who cant afford to have any more kids aren't? Why is that a bad thing again?

[speedy_gonzales]

So people who cant afford to have any more kids aren't? Why is that a bad thing again?
Potential social cleansing, rich folk breed-poor folk don't/can't.
I don't buy in to that too much but like most places my employers are pushing diversity & inclusion big time. Academic studies seem to show that for a company to develop and reach its full potential they must be open and available to all walks of life.
By extension, a country should be the same.
I'm currently down in the midlands this week and I've already had what I class to be a xenophobic conversation where the "locals" (singular) feel threatened by the "Asian" population breeding like rabbits (his words).
Perhaps they're worried the balance of power will shift as the makeup of the people does?

[Hibrandenburg]

So people who cant afford to have any more kids aren't? Why is that a bad thing again?

Because they might have previously been able to afford kids and our country needs kids. The alternative is immigration but funnily enough the Tories don't seem to want that either.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Because they might have previously been able to afford kids and our country needs kids. The alternative is immigration but funnily enough the Tories don't seem to want that either.

Still dont see the problem. If you cant afford not to have children, dont have them. If thats not common sense, i dont know what is.

[Hibrandenburg]

Still dont see the problem. If you cant afford not to have children, dont have them. If thats not common sense, i dont know what is.

Read my post again, slowly. Our country needs kids, we can't sustain our future without them. We can encourage home grown kids by making it financially viable for families in the UK to have more children or we can rely on immigration to keep our economy ticking over or we can have a mixture of both. The tories are against both.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Read my post again, slowly. Our country needs kids, we can't sustain our future without them. We can encourage home grown kids by making it financially viable for families in the UK to have more children or we can rely on immigration to keep our economy ticking over or we can have a mixture of both. The tories are against both.

Our country? Dont you live in Germany?

I doubt discouraging families who cant affors to have more than two children to not, will seriously dent our rate of childbirth. But if im wrong, ill hold my hands up.

[Hibrandenburg]

Our country? Dont you live in Germany?

I doubt discouraging families who cant affors to have more than two children to not, will seriously dent our rate of childbirth. But if im wrong, ill hold my hands up.

What difference does it make where I live?

[ronaldo7]

Still dont see the problem. If you cant afford not to have children, dont have them. If thats not common sense, i dont know what is.

Did you mean something else here, it's just that the sentence doesn't make sense?

[xyz23jc]

:thumbsup:

How about this one from a 12yr old.

https://twitter.com/Jonny_Nabb/status/858730368937197568

And I thought it was only our education system that was responsible for churning our generations of illiterates! :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

I missed this programme on Sunday morning, but Professor Pickett, doesn't miss the Tories.

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/858753457238536192

[Hibrandenburg]

I missed this programme on Sunday morning, but Professor Pickett, doesn't miss the Tories.

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/858753457238536192

Unfortunately the Tories know no shame.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Did you mean something else here, it's just that the sentence doesn't make sense?

Possibly a double negative in there...!!

[ronaldo7]

Possibly a double negative in there...!!

:aok:

[Hibrandenburg]

Possibly a double negative in there...!!

Are you going to answer my question about what difference my current place of residence makes to my nationality?

[grunt]

So people who cant afford to have any more kids aren't? Why is that a bad thing again?So where does this stop? Why provide Child Benefit for the second child but not the third? Do away with Child Benefit altogether? Are you against providing health care to smokers? Perhaps old people with no money shouldn't obtain care services since they obviously didn't save when they were younger? Do you think people with no children should pay less Council Tax since they're not using Education services?

It's a slippery slope.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

So where does this stop? Why provide Child Benefit for the second child but not the third? Do away with Child Benefit altogether? Are you against providing health care to smokers? Perhaps old people with no money shouldn't obtain care services since they obviously didn't save when they were younger? Do you think people with no children should pay less Council Tax since they're not using Education services?

It's a slippery slope.

The line is drawn where the people, via their government decides it should be drawn. The rest are just strawman arguments imo.

Most if not all government policies have a line to be drawn somewhere, its the harsh reality of government. The NHS is already rationed, the rest of your questions i would say no.

[grunt]

The line is drawn where the people, via their government decides it should be drawn. Agreed. Government should never have gone to the country over Brexit. But that's another debate.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Agreed. Government should never have gone to the country over Brexit. But that's another debate.

Although they were elected with quite an explicit mandate to do just that.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Are you going to answer my question about what difference my current place of residence makes to my nationality?

Just seemed an odd turn of phrase for a civic nationalist to use, thats all.

[grunt]

Although they were elected with quite an explicit mandate to do just that.The one time the Tories stick to their mandate and its a disaster for us all. Why couldn't they ignore their mandate like they usually do?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The one time the Tories stick to their mandate and its a disaster for us all. Why couldn't they ignore their mandate like they usually do?

I dont know!

I also dont know if they normally break their manifesto. I doubt they do anymore than any party.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just seemed an odd turn of phrase for a civic nationalist to use, thats all.

Cop-out. You were trying to insinuate something that you now don't have the balls to back-up. I don't think you believe the half of what you post yourself. Or put differently you're trolling.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Cop-out. You were trying to insinuate something that you now don't have the balls to back-up. I don't think you believe the half of what you post yourself. Or put differently you're trolling.

Really? I wasnt trying to insinuate something, it was just a very odd turn of phrase to use for someone who doesnt live here.

[Mr White]

Really? I wasnt trying to insinuate something, it was just a very odd turn of phrase to use for someone who doesnt live here.

It's really not. I don't live in Scotland any more either but I still refer to it as home, my country and our country as and when I feel like it. Home is where the heart is when it comes to nationality.

[Hibrandenburg]

Really? I wasnt trying to insinuate something, it was just a very odd turn of phrase to use for someone who doesnt live here.

Our country? Dont you live in Germany?????

Why is it odd? I was born in the UK, I grew up in the UK, my immediate family were born and bread and still live or are buried in the UK, I've paid taxes for decades in the UK, I served 14 years in the UK's armed forces, I hold a UK passport and may well spend my twilight years in Scotland. Admit it, you thought you could somehow devalue my opinion based on my residency status but thought better of it and now don't have the balls to back-up up or apologise for your knee-jerk assumption.

[speedy_gonzales]

It's really not. I don't live in Scotland any more either but I still refer to it as home, my country and our country as and when I feel like it. Home is where the heart is when it comes to nationality.
But there's the assumption that when someone says "our country" it's between two people both born and living in that country.

Whilst that majority of us on this forum will be Scots born and living here, there will be a significant %age Scots born and living abroad and even less %age born abroad but living in Scotland.

I reckon some folk are getting a little too sensitive here, on all sides.

[ronaldo7]

But there's the assumption that when someone says "our country" it's between two people both born and living in that country.

Whilst that majority of us on this forum will be Scots born and living here, there will be a significant %age Scots born and living abroad and even less %age born abroad but living in Scotland.

I reckon some folk are getting a little too sensitive here, on all sides.

Not necessarily.

People discussing "Our country", are often in different places, and not always living in the same country.

Opportunistic comment from SB. IMO

[Mr White]

But there's the assumption that when someone says "our country" it's between two people both born and living in that country.

Whilst that majority of us on this forum will be Scots born and living here, there will be a significant %age Scots born and living abroad and even less %age born abroad but living in Scotland.

I reckon some folk are getting a little too sensitive here, on all sides.

I agree completely with your last point for sure. On your first though? Not so much. Take myself and my mother. She was born in the Republic of Ireland but has lived in edinburgh for 50 years. I was born in Scotland lived there till 2015. If we were to talk about "our country" it would be scotland. For different reasons ie- birth or residency but not both.

Anyone picking up on that kind of thing is scraping the bottom of what has become a pretty ****ty barrel here lately imo.

[Hibrandenburg]

But there's the assumption that when someone says "our country" it's between two people both born and living in that country.

Whilst that majority of us on this forum will be Scots born and living here, there will be a significant %age Scots born and living abroad and even less %age born abroad but living in Scotland.

I reckon some folk are getting a little too sensitive here, on all sides.

Then that's a ridiculous assumption. I'd happily sit down for a pint with someone foreign born but who's made their home in Scotland or someone born in Scotland but living abroad and discuss OUR country. The idea that someone is more or less Scottish depending on their ethnicity or place of residence is obnoxious and sadly much more prevalent amongst British Nationalists than Scottish Nationalists.

[ronaldo7]

I wonder how this one will pan out?

Cabinet Office responds to allegations of Prime Minister's Brexit " conflict of interest

https://t.co/MPHVTm1kov

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Our country? Dont you live in Germany?????

Why is it odd? I was born in the UK, I grew up in the UK, my immediate family were born and bread and still live or are buried in the UK, I've paid taxes for decades in the UK, I served 14 years in the UK's armed forces, I hold a UK passport and may well spend my twilight years in Scotland. Admit it, you thought you could somehow devalue my opinion based on my residency status but thought better of it and now don't have the balls to back-up up or apologise for your knee-jerk assumption.

Im afraid not. You had previously said you believe nationalism is based on where you live, not blood or soil, so it seemed a strange turn of phrase to use.

I dont want to devalue your opinion, why would i? If you took it like that then i am happy to apologise.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Not necessarily.

People discussing "Our country", are often in different places, and not always living in the same country.

Opportunistic comment from SB. IMO

As ive said above, for someone who has rejected blood and soil nationalism, it seemed a bit odd to me.

[Just Alf]

I see "National" as in Nation and how it's governed as opposed to "Nationalisim" of the Blood and soil variety (especially the blood bit) as two completely different things. Folks often deliberately mix the two up when trying to get digs in at the SNP knowing full well, to use as an example, that SNP doesn't equal BNP.

[Just Alf]

So, 1st of its off to the the back of beyond to "meet the public and get your message across" (because live debates where anyone that wants too can tune in and hear what's being said are no good) and now this?!

https://mobile.twitter.com/eliz_lloyd/status/858964384516902912

It's almost a joke. :rolleyes:

[speedy_gonzales]

Then that's a ridiculous assumption. I'd happily sit down for a pint with someone foreign born but who's made their home in Scotland or someone born in Scotland but living abroad and discuss OUR country. The idea that someone is more or less Scottish depending on their ethnicity or place of residence is obnoxious and sadly much more prevalent amongst British Nationalists than Scottish Nationalists.
Jings, getting way off topic now but my point (clearly missed) in reply to Mr White was that when a 3rd party sees a conversation and "Our Country" is brought up one could assume a commonality between the 2 persons. I did concede it doesn't always mean you have to be born bred & die in that country.
Mr White says home is where the heart is when it comes to nationality.
You'll happily discuss "our country" with someone foreign born but made their home there.
I never once questioned whether anyone is more or less Scottish but what I did miss out on my 2nd paragraph is that regardless of how people got there, they have as much right to call it their country as you or I.
I don't know you at all and only picked up here that you live in Germany, do you not consider Germany to be your country at all?

To give this subject some much needed levity, I would argue that ethnicity(?) and/or place of residence must go some way to their nationality otherwise we're entering the realms of the Last King of Scotland, we can't have any Tom, Dick or Idi Amin claiming to be Scottish 😂

Seriously though, back on topic and calm down on the "Nationalism" side of things. It wasn't my intention to question how people consider home to be!

[PeeJay]

Our country? Dont you live in Germany?


Your wrong here I think - there are many Brits living abroad who refer to their home country as "our country" and are quite entitled to do so. They may be living and working abroad for temporry reasons and return one day, in this age of the global village they may live abroad for family reasons, they may return for holidays only, they may never return, but family ties in the UK alone ensure that the term "our country" is a perfectly reasonable one to use for an ex-pat, particularly one born in the UK. "We" can also vote in general elections!

Not quite sure why you are questioning anyone on here who refers to Scotland/the UK in this manner, even though they are not currently living in the UK. I've lived most of my life in Germany that I now consider my home and also my country, but my family/relatives are all back home in the UK in what I also refer to as "our country" ...

... by the way Hibs is also "my club" even though I haven't been near Easter Road in some time. :greengrin

[snooky]

Your wrong here I think - there are many Brits living abroad who refer to their home country as "our country" and are quite entitled to do so. They may be living and working abroad for temporry reasons and return one day, in this age of the global village they may live abroad for family reasons, they may return for holidays only, they may never return, but family ties in the UK alone ensure that the term "our country" is a perfectly reasonable one to use for an ex-pat, particularly one born in the UK. "We" can also vote in general elections!

Not quite sure why you are questioning anyone on here who refers to Scotland/the UK in this manner, even though they are not currently living in the UK. I've lived most of my life in Germany that I now consider my home and also my country, but my family/relatives are all back home in the UK in what I also refer to as "our country" ...

... by the way Hibs is also "my club" even though I haven't been near Easter Road in some time. :greengrin




I still feel the tax I pay is my money even though it's the government who wastes it. :cb

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Your wrong here I think - there are many Brits living abroad who refer to their home country as "our country" and are quite entitled to do so. They may be living and working abroad for temporry reasons and return one day, in this age of the global village they may live abroad for family reasons, they may return for holidays only, they may never return, but family ties in the UK alone ensure that the term "our country" is a perfectly reasonable one to use for an ex-pat, particularly one born in the UK. "We" can also vote in general elections!

Not quite sure why you are questioning anyone on here who refers to Scotland/the UK in this manner, even though they are not currently living in the UK. I've lived most of my life in Germany that I now consider my home and also my country, but my family/relatives are all back home in the UK in what I also refer to as "our country" ...

... by the way Hibs is also "my club" even though I haven't been near Easter Road in some time. :greengrin





If i offended hibrandenburg or you or any other expat, i apologise, that wasnt my intention. I simply remarked on a turn of a phrase, which in hindsight i shouldnt have.

Apologies for taking the discussion off on a tangent, amd / or lowering the tone

[Stranraer]

As has been said a million times, the Tories are doing so well in Scotland because of their clear opposition to independence. Labour have become utterly irrelevant and the rise of the Tories should be "blamed" on Scottish Labour.

[stoneyburn hibs]

So, 1st of its off to the the back of beyond to "meet the public and get your message across" (because live debates where anyone that wants too can tune in and hear what's being said are no good) and now this?!

https://mobile.twitter.com/eliz_lloyd/status/858964384516902912

It's almost a joke. :rolleyes:

I really hope that the Maybot gets pressured into appearing on the live tv debates.

[PeeJay]

If i offended hibrandenburg or you or any other expat, i apologise, that wasnt my intention. I simply remarked on a turn of a phrase, which in hindsight i shouldnt have.

Apologies for taking the discussion off on a tangent, amd / or lowering the tone

Cheers - No offence taken on my part, just wanted to make a point I feel to be valid ....

[Hibbyradge]

Why couldn't they ignore their mandate like they usually do?

Because they would have haemorrhaged votes to UKIP if they had.

[grunt]

Because they would have haemorrhaged votes to UKIP if they had.So instead they just adopt all UKIP policies. Oh well.

[Hibbyradge]

So instead they just adopt all UKIP policies. Oh well.

Yes, but they keep their cushy jobs.

[Hibrandenburg]

If i offended hibrandenburg or you or any other expat, i apologise, that wasnt my intention. I simply remarked on a turn of a phrase, which in hindsight i shouldnt have.

Apologies for taking the discussion off on a tangent, amd / or lowering the tone

Fair doodies. I'll say no more on the subject to you.

[High-On-Hibs]

Tories could find themselves under investigation for laundering £5,000,000 from HSBC through IPGL. Will no doubt be swept under the rug along with everything else.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/2qkp7vq.jpg
Dear Ms. Bassett,

You will no doubt be aware that the Annual General Meeting of HSBC Holdings PLC was held on the 28th April 2017 at Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in London. At this meeting serious alegations were made about significant HSBC loans to the company IPGL led by former Treasurer of the Conservative Party & current Chair of the Conservative Party Foundation Mr Michael Spencer. The question and answers at the AGM are now fully in the public domain on YouTube.

In essence, the allegation which was not refuted was that HSBC loaned to IPGL over £200 million from 6th October 2008 onwards. The company was in some finanicial distress. Despite this it is reported that in excess of £5 million of HSBC loans have been laundered directly to Conservative Party Headquarters.

I am therefore calling for an immediate investigation into this situation. My specific questions are as follows:

1. Did HSBC and IPGL inform the Electoral Commission of all donations to the Conservative Party during the period IPGL was in receipt of a substantial loan from HSBC?
2. What is the Electoral Commission's policy where bank loans to companies in distress are then laundered to party political donations?
3. Will the Electoral Commission launch an immediate investigation into whether electoral law has been broken by HSBC and IPGL since 2008?
4. In the Electoral Commission's view have such loans any implications for full and proper declarations relating to the 2017 General Election?

Yours sincerely,

Roger Mullin MP

[ronaldo7]

Tories could find themselves under investigation for laundering £5,000,000 from HSBC through IPGL. Will no doubt be swept under the rug along with everything else.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/2qkp7vq.jpg
Dear Ms. Bassett,

You will no doubt be aware that the Annual General Meeting of HSBC Holdings PLC was held on the 28th April 2017 at Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in London. At this meeting serious alegations were made about significant HSBC loans to the company IPGL led by former Treasurer of the Conservative Party & current Chair of the Conservative Party Foundation Mr Michael Spencer. The question and answers at the AGM are now fully in the public domain on YouTube.

In essence, the allegation which was not refuted was that HSBC loaned to IPGL over £200 million from 6th October 2008 onwards. The company was in some finanicial distress. Despite this it is reported that in excess of £5 million of HSBC loans have been laundered directly to Conservative Party Headquarters.

I am therefore calling for an immediate investigation into this situation. My specific questions are as follows:

1. Did HSBC and IPGL inform the Electoral Commission of all donations to the Conservative Party during the period IPGL was in receipt of a substantial loan from HSBC?
2. What is the Electoral Commission's policy where bank loans to companies in distress are then laundered to party political donations?
3. Will the Electoral Commission launch an immediate investigation into whether electoral law has been broken by HSBC and IPGL since 2008?
4. In the Electoral Commission's view have such loans any implications for full and proper declarations relating to the 2017 General Election?

Yours sincerely,

Roger Mullin MP


It would be nice if the impartial BBC spent some time on this story, can't see it myself though. Osborne intervened to save HSBC being prosecuted in the US

HSBC escaped US money-laundering charges after Osborne's intervention.

https://t.co/3j5u2onUSI

#ToryDirtyMoney

[makaveli1875]

It would be nice if the impartial BBC spent some time on this story, can't see it myself though. Osborne intervened to save HSBC being prosecuted in the US

HSBC escaped US money-laundering charges after Osborne's intervention.

https://t.co/3j5u2onUSI

#ToryDirtyMoney

im starting to notice that every post you make contains a link to this website . Are you on comission ?

[ronaldo7]

im starting to notice that every post you make contains a link to this website . Are you on comission ?

I'll let you check my posts in your own time, and get back to me.

[makaveli1875]

:thumbsup:

How about this one from a 12yr old.

https://twitter.com/Jonny_Nabb/status/858730368937197568


Tory Benefit cap starting to hurt.

https://t.co/4Pz5B6PRrw


I missed this programme on Sunday morning, but Professor Pickett, doesn't miss the Tories.

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/858753457238536192


I wonder how this one will pan out?

Cabinet Office responds to allegations of Prime Minister's Brexit " conflict of interest

https://t.co/MPHVTm1kov


If Labour go for the jugular on the way she's being kept back from Joe Public, they'll gain traction. IMO

https://t.co/YU5hYa8f29

just going back 2 pages on this particular thread .

[marinello59]

]It would be nice if the impartial BBC spent some time on this story[/B], can't see it myself though. Osborne intervened to save HSBC being prosecuted in the US

HSBC escaped US money-laundering charges after Osborne's intervention.

https://t.co/3j5u2onUSI

#ToryDirtyMoney

The real story is an old one, namely how should political parties be funded? As long as big businesses and wealthy individuals bankroll the questions to be asked of every single one of them is what was expected in return. We can imply that Osborne's intervention was paid for with this cash but there is absolutely no way of proving that.
This is not a case of money laundering, it's a case of safeguards and checks designed to prevent money laundering not being rigidly applied which is a different thing. These donations look dodgy as hell but if they were declared in the correct manner by the Tory party then it is in the clear. Sadly.

[ronaldo7]

just going back 2 pages on this particular thread .

Making a mint mate.

5 different sources there alone. :aok:

I'm then funnelling the money to Anne Budge, to build the Yam stand.:faf:

[ronaldo7]

The real story is an old one, namely how should political parties be funded? As long as big businesses and wealthy individuals bankroll the questions to be asked of every single one of them is what was expected in return. We can imply that Osborne's intervention was paid for with this cash but there is absolutely no way of proving that.
This is not a case of money laundering, it's a case of safeguards and checks designed to prevent money laundering not being rigidly applied which is a different thing. These donations look dodgy as hell but if they were declared in the correct manner by the Tory party then it is in the clear. Sadly.

Hence the reason Roger asks the Electoral commission to investigate it. :aok:

https://youtu.be/rlDOOBIA7lg

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Hence the reason Roger asks the Electoral commission to investigate it. :aok:

https://youtu.be/rlDOOBIA7lg

So nobody has done anything wrong at this point then?

Also the SNP have a bit of form when it comes to shady donations dont they?

Takes one to know one eh...

[ronaldo7]

So nobody has done anything wrong at this point then ?

Also the SNP have a bit of form when it comes to shady donations dont they?

Takes one to know one eh...

Correct, hence the reason why an investigation should take place.

SNP obsessed much?:rolleyes:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Correct, hence the reason why an investigation should take place.

SNP obsessed much?:rolleyes:

Just bringing some balance to your SNP propoganda campaign...!

[makaveli1875]

Making a mint mate.

5 different sources there alone. :aok:

I'm then funnelling the money to Anne Budge, to build the Yam stand.:faf:

:thumbsup:

[CapitalGreen]

just going back 2 pages on this particular thread .

You do realise those links you have posted are just shortened URL codes?

Click each link and you will be taken to different websites.

Here's the actual links posted:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/benefit-cap-tories-pregnant-abortions_uk_59070870e4b05c3976808eaa
https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/858753457238536192
https://www.byline.com/column/22/article/1621
https://skwawkbox.org/2017/04/29/labour-slashes-tory-lead-by-a-further-five-points-in-two-days/

[ronaldo7]

Just bringing some balance to your SNP propoganda campaign...!

Shoor Ruth, Shoor you are.

[WeeRussell]

Just doing everyone who reads this thread's nut in...!

FIXED

:agree:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

FIXED

:agree:

Very droll, and a bit of an unwarranted attack imo.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Shoor Ruth, Shoor you are.

Ok, so you can post an endless stream of party propoganda, but i cant post anything you don't like.

Seems a bit unfair.

[ronaldo7]

Just bringing some balance to your SNP propoganda campaign...!


Ok, so you can post an endless stream of party propoganda, but i cant post anything you don't like.

Seems a bit unfair.

I just think you're trolling me. If you'd want to discuss the thread topic, you'd have mentioned something about the Tories. The letter above which was posted by HOH was then referenced by me. If you'd wanted to discuss the story, why wouldn't you ask the person who posted it? It's all about the Tories and the electoral commission, not the SNP.

You can post all you want bud, however their are rules on the board re trolling. :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Pot and kettle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...eporting-story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-39758977&link_location=live-reporting-story)

Theresa May has accused European politicians of making "threats" against Britain to try to influence the general election result.

Firstly, the first threats came form herself, or at least, not confirming the rights of EU citizens in the UK, until the same is confirmed by Brussels.

Secondly, there was no need to call an election before Brexit was in place, remember that was the main reason for not wanting to agree a referendum on Independence for Scotland, all the focus would be on Brexit.

Hypocritical to the extreme.

[ronaldo7]

Pot and kettle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...eporting-story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-39758977&link_location=live-reporting-story)

Theresa May has accused European politicians of making "threats" against Britain to try to influence the general election result.

Firstly, the first threats came form herself, or at least, not confirming the rights of EU citizens in the UK, until the same is confirmed by Brussels.

Secondly, there was no need to call an election before Brexit was in place, remember that was the main reason for not wanting to agree a referendum on Independence for Scotland, all the focus would be on Brexit.

Hypocritical to the extreme.

I sat and watched it open mouthed.:duck:

They'd have been better saying it was a Party political broadcast by the Conservative and Unionist party. :greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I just think you're trolling me. If you'd want to discuss the thread topic, you'd have mentioned something about the Tories. The letter above which was posted by HOH was then referenced by me. If you'd wanted to discuss the story, why wouldn't you ask the person who posted it? It's all about the Tories and the electoral commission, not the SNP.

You can post all you want bud, however their are rules on the board re trolling. :aok:

Ha ha, trolling you! Behave.

I just posted something to the last reply i read to add to your point about (potentially) dodgy party finances.

I can assure you im not trolling, you or anyone else.

I do take issue with your relentless anti-tory pro SNP stories, bit we have had that convo previously so no need cover it again.

[ronaldo7]

Ha ha, trolling you! Behave.

I just posted something to the last reply i read to add to your point about (potentially) dodgy party finances.

I can assure you im not trolling, you or anyone else.

I do take issue with your relentless anti-tory pro SNP stories, bit we have had that convo previously so no need cover it again.

Shoor Ruth, Shoor.:aok:

[Hibrandenburg]

Pot and kettle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...eporting-story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-39758977&link_location=live-reporting-story)

Theresa May has accused European politicians of making "threats" against Britain to try to influence the general election result.

Firstly, the first threats came form herself, or at least, not confirming the rights of EU citizens in the UK, until the same is confirmed by Brussels.

Secondly, there was no need to call an election before Brexit was in place, remember that was the main reason for not wanting to agree a referendum on Independence for Scotland, all the focus would be on Brexit.

Hypocritical to the extreme.


Absolutely disgraceful the depths she's just stooped to, and all to secure the anti EU vote that she's pretty much guaranteed anyway.

[speedy_gonzales]

Shoor Ruth, Shoor.:aok:

Is there any need for this? Don't let the anonymity a pseudonym affords you turn you in to someone your not.

[ronaldo7]

Is there any need for this? Don't let the anonymity a pseudonym affords you turn you in to someone your not.

;-)

[heretoday]

I'm hoping May's outburst will start to turn reasonable folk against her but I don't suppose it will. The Tory media will big her up as the Iron Lady 2 and UKIP types will come on board, which I suspect is her strategy.

[northstandhibby]

Pot and kettle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...eporting-story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-39758977&link_location=live-reporting-story)

Theresa May has accused European politicians of making "threats" against Britain to try to influence the general election result.

Firstly, the first threats came form herself, or at least, not confirming the rights of EU citizens in the UK, until the same is confirmed by Brussels.

Secondly, there was no need to call an election before Brexit was in place, remember that was the main reason for not wanting to agree a referendum on Independence for Scotland, all the focus would be on Brexit.

Hypocritical to the extreme.

Sometimes I surprise myself :greengrin

A good while back I predicted the arrests of the Charles Greens Huns et al would be quietly dropped like snow off a dyke and with only Craig White left as the patsy looking likely to get a slap on the wrists or a not guilty it was not a wholly wrongful prediction.

I also predicted some time ago and referred it was looking likely the tories would car crash us out of a deal with the EU and with the cries of wrongdoing by May and the prospect of a landslide majority all but in the bag its looking ever likely.

Just the other day ago I remarked politicians holding babies up at election time is one of the biggest pass the sickbag events and look what happens a day or two later!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Nicola+Sturgeon+and+holding+baby+photo&rlz=1C1MDNF_enGB691GB691&tbm=isch&imgil=Xww05DRqotz8XM%253A%253BzRlj6pcQMoAKYM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.gettyimages.com%25252F photos%25252Fwhat-happened-in-baby-jane&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Xww05DRqotz8XM%253A%252CzRlj6pcQMoAKYM%252C_&usg=__VOUYe7Nm01PPl-gItluTPGuj0e8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjNiaexsNTTAhXJKcAKHUnWB5cQyjcITA&ei=rSQKWY3_I8nTgAbJrJ-4CQ&biw=1366&bih=662#imgrc=Xww05DRqotz8XM:

glory glory

[Colr]

I'm hoping May's outburst will start to turn reasonable folk against her but I don't suppose it will. The Tory media will big her up as the Iron Lady 2 and UKIP types will come on board, which I suspect is her strategy.

And into the booths for some one more reasonable. John McDonnell, perhaps?

We're not exactly being offered an embarrassment of riches in terms of political talent! .... or reason!

[Colr]

Sometimes I surprise myself :greengrin

A good while back I predicted the arrests of the Charles Greens Huns et al would be quietly dropped like snow off a dyke and with only Craig White left as the patsy looking likely to get a slap on the wrists or a not guilty it was not a wholly wrongful prediction.

I also predicted some time ago and referred it was looking likely the tories would car crash us out of a deal with the EU and with the cries of wrongdoing by May and the prospect of a landslide majority all but in the bag its looking ever likely.

Just the other day ago I remarked politicians holding babies up at election time is one of the biggest pass the sickbag events and look what happens a day or two later!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Nicola+Sturgeon+and+holding+baby+photo&rlz=1C1MDNF_enGB691GB691&tbm=isch&imgil=Xww05DRqotz8XM%253A%253BzRlj6pcQMoAKYM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.gettyimages.com%25252F photos%25252Fwhat-happened-in-baby-jane&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Xww05DRqotz8XM%253A%252CzRlj6pcQMoAKYM%252C_&usg=__VOUYe7Nm01PPl-gItluTPGuj0e8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjNiaexsNTTAhXJKcAKHUnWB5cQyjcITA&ei=rSQKWY3_I8nTgAbJrJ-4CQ&biw=1366&bih=662#imgrc=Xww05DRqotz8XM:

glory glory

Could you PM Saturday's lottery numbers, please?

[northstandhibby]

Could you PM Saturday's lottery numbers, please?

Would you call me Nostradamus if I said the winning numbers will be between 1-59?

:greengrin


If I knew the winning numbers I'd be planning my exit out of brexit, general election and indy ref 2 obsessed UK and Scotland right now bud.

:agree:

[heretoday]

And into the booths for some one more reasonable. John McDonnell, perhaps?

We're not exactly being offered an embarrassment of riches in terms of political talent! .... or reason!

What I mean is ABT - Anyone But Theresa!

[northstandhibby]

And into the booths for some one more reasonable. John McDonnell, perhaps?

We're not exactly being offered an embarrassment of riches in terms of political talent! .... or reason!

How on earth did he ever end up as shadow chancellor of our great party? Better off with Ronald Macdonald than this clown. Corbyn and his jokes should be gone soon as they're a gift wrapped present to the tories they could ever ask santa to deliver.

As you rightly said earlier the grandees of the party have let us down big time and are inviting decades of tory rule. We need to act fast with someone of substance who knows how to appeal to the middle ground. Are you listening David Milliband?

glory glory

[Bishop Hibee]

Local elections today! Get out and vote (unless it's Tory). Fearing a resurgence in Edinburgh which will jeopardise the services we have left.

[Moulin Yarns]

How on earth did he ever end up as shadow chancellor of our great party? Better off with Ronald Macdonald than this clown. Corbyn and his jokes should be gone soon as they're a gift wrapped present to the tories they could ever ask santa to deliver.

As you rightly said earlier the grandees of the party have let us down big time and are inviting decades of tory rule. We need to act fast with someone of substance who knows how to appeal to the middle ground. Are you listening David Milliband?

glory glory


No, I'm not, he said when tracked down in New York. Try thinking of someone who is actually active in the Labour Party for a change. Eh?

[ronaldo7]

Murdo Fraser (7 time loser), asked in parliament yesterday, why we can't entice people to Scotland. All the while another family are getting deported from the Highlands.

The Zielsdorfs are moving back to Canada. Immigration is controlled by the Tories in Westminster.:rolleyes:

https://t.co/1fEeOaiD7l

https://t.co/LbURxSMbCy

[stoneyburn hibs]

Murdo Fraser (7 time loser), asked in parliament yesterday, why we can't entice people to Scotland. All the while another family are getting deported from the Highlands.

The Zielsdorfs are moving back to Canada. Immigration is controlled by the Tories in Westminster.:rolleyes:

https://t.co/1fEeOaiD7l

Just listened to the story on Radio Scotland, how dare they contribute to the economy.

[ronaldo7]

Just listened to the story on Radio Scotland, how dare they contribute to the economy.

Some on here, will use the economy to have a go at the Scottish Government. You couldn't make it up really.:wink:

[snooky]

The Spectator today calling Ruth Davidson "The Queen Of Scots" apparently aware of the double entendre.
Beware Ruthie baby Remember what an English Queen did to the last Queen of Scots.

[ronaldo7]

Another piece on the Tory dirty money buying elections. Alledgedly.:greengrin

MPs Roger Mullin and John Mann have demanded an investigation by the UK Electoral Commission into*donations accepted by the Tory party from HBSC and it’s third party partner*IPGL Ltd from 2008 to 2016.
The*scandal,*known as ‘cash for Conservatives’ broke after*SNP MP Mullin*and Labour MP Mann, worked with anti-corruption groups to uncover what they say*are*loans being used to gain favourable policy outcomes for the bank and its loaning partner.
They allege this was done through Michael Spencer, the Tory party fundraiser and chairman, who used his holding company*IPGL Ltd as a way to ease donations towards the Tory party to fund the 2010*and 2015 General Elections.
Since being in office from 2010, the Tory party*has been reluctant to clamp down on tax avoidance or prosecute accusation*of money laundering and financial*misconduct by HSBC and other major banks. Campaigners argue that the influence of big money has “corrupted” the policy approach to institutions like banks.
The Electoral Commission, when contacted by CommonSpace, said they*“would have to receive the physical copy of the letter to make an eventual judgement” on whether or not to hold an investigation.

https://t.co/EPFaFAIKXy

[Moulin Yarns]

Another piece on the Tory dirty money buying elections. Alledgedly.:greengrin

MPs Roger Mullin and John Mann have demanded an investigation by the UK Electoral Commission into*donations accepted by the Tory party from HBSC and it’s third party partner*IPGL Ltd from 2008 to 2016.
The*scandal,*known as ‘cash for Conservatives’ broke after*SNP MP Mullin*and Labour MP Mann, worked with anti-corruption groups to uncover what they say*are*loans being used to gain favourable policy outcomes for the bank and its loaning partner.
They allege this was done through Michael Spencer, the Tory party fundraiser and chairman, who used his holding company*IPGL Ltd as a way to ease donations towards the Tory party to fund the 2010*and 2015 General Elections.
Since being in office from 2010, the Tory party*has been reluctant to clamp down on tax avoidance or prosecute accusation*of money laundering and financial*misconduct by HSBC and other major banks. Campaigners argue that the influence of big money has “corrupted” the policy approach to institutions like banks.
The Electoral Commission, when contacted by CommonSpace, said they*“would have to receive the physical copy of the letter to make an eventual judgement” on whether or not to hold an investigation.

https://t.co/EPFaFAIKXy

I am of the opinion that HSB were probably in the dark about this and it is really IPGL Ltd and their owner/shareholder that is fully culpable.

IPGL Ltd were lent the money by HSBC but they alone laundered the £5m to Tory Party funds.

[Just Alf]

Local elections today! Get out and vote (unless it's Tory). Fearing a resurgence in Edinburgh which will jeopardise the services we have left.

You should be ok on the Tory front, I've just another look at all the local council literature received over the campaign and they've not offered up anything positive at the local election that I can see :rolleyes:


PS.. My daughter is now able to vote so I've been creating two piles of literature for her to peruse, one for the council elections and another for the GE.
The difference in the local council methodology stuff is quite stark, do the Tories really think there's enough people who'd vote against their beliefs (locally) just to "send a message to the SNP" with that message being masked by genuine Tory voters when there's a GE about to happen where it 100% would send that message? :confused:

[ronaldo7]

I am of the opinion that HSB were probably in the dark about this and it is really IPGL Ltd and their owner/shareholder that is fully culpable.

IPGL Ltd were lent the money by HSBC but they alone laundered the £5m to Tory Party funds.

And the owner of IPLG is, Michael Spencer, Tory party fundraiser and Chairman.

[ACLeith]

You should be ok on the Tory front, I've just another look at all the local council literature received over the campaign and they've not offered up anything positive at the local election that I can see :rolleyes:


PS.. My daughter is now able to vote so I've been creating two piles of literature for her to peruse, one for the council elections and another for the GE:
You're lucky you've got stuff from the candidates. Received 2 leaflets from SNP, 2 from the Greens and one Labour. Nought from Tories and LibDem. Maybe I they're not standing in Leith 👍

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You're lucky you've got stuff from the candidates. Received 2 leaflets from SNP, 2 from the Greens and one Labour. Nought from Tories and LibDem. Maybe I they're not standing in Leith 👍

They probably dont have the activists in that area to deliver the leaflets.

[ACLeith]

They probably dont have the activists in that area to deliver the leaflets.

That's one explanation, there are others of course. The 5 I received were all about local issues the "I-word" never appeared. How am I supppsed to vote for someone who does not tell me what they have done/will do?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That's one explanation, there are others of course. The 5 I received were all about local issues the "I-word" never appeared. How am I supppsed to vote for someone who does not tell me what they have done/will do?

I dont know, i just posted a possible reason neither of those parties leafleted you.

How you vote, amd why you reach that decision is none of my business.

[CapitalGreen]

They probably dont have the activists in that area to deliver the leaflets.

Too busy getting bussed around the country to create crowds behind Teresa May at rallies.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Too busy getting bussed around the country to create crowds behind Teresa May at rallies.

Quite possibly mate. Although i doubt the lib dems would be too pleased about that...!

They are both just probably focusing on areas likely to give them the biggest returns. They wont habe the ground infrastructure that other parties do in that area, so habe probably just surrendered it to focus elsewhere.

[snooky]

You're lucky you've got stuff from the candidates. Received 2 leaflets from SNP, 2 from the Greens and one Labour. Nought from Tories and LibDem. Maybe I they're not standing in Leith ��

What's this? There's no 'broad shoulders' to be seen in Sunshineland? :tumble:
Try the Windsor area.

[ACLeith]

[/B]
What this? There's no 'broad shoulders' to be seen in Sunshineland? :tumble:
Try the Windsor area.

At the polling station no LD A-Board, Tories the usual anti NS message. Glad they were standing or else I'd have had nowhere to put numbers 4 & 5 😉

[AndyM_1875]

And the owner of IPLG is, Michael Spencer, Tory party fundraiser and Chairman.

Well they are the dirtiest party going and it seems now they are still up to their necks in corruption.

They were in the 90s and you know what they say about a mangy dog, it always returns to its own vomit.

[ronaldo7]

Well they are the dirtiest party going and it seems now they are still up to their necks in corruption.

They were in the 90s and you know what they say about a mangy dog, it always returns to its own vomit.

Loads of Britain's 100 richest people have donated £19 million to the Tories. I wonder why?:rolleyes:

https://t.co/27XcSwrEAB

[Mr Grieves]

https://youtu.be/0M91g4OlGEY

Strong and stable

[xyz23jc]

https://youtu.be/0M91g4OlGEY

Strong and stable

Forget party political broadcasts, get this guy a slot on TV before the 6 and 10 O'clock news. :top marks:thumbsup:

[grunt]

Murdo Fraser (7 time loser), asked in parliament yesterday, why we can't entice people to Scotland. All the while another family are getting deported from the Highlands.

The Zielsdorfs are moving back to Canada. Immigration is controlled by the Tories in Westminster.:rolleyes:

https://t.co/1fEeOaiD7l

https://t.co/LbURxSMbCyExpect to see much more of this if the Tories (thread title) follow through with their intention to include limiting net migration to the "tens of thousands". In order to do that, as well as limiting incoming migration, they'll need to dramatically increase the numbers of migrants leaving the UK. Life as an EU citizen living in the UK just became that bit more precarious.

And just to add http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/us-couple-hopeful-of-u-turn-on-inverness-deportation-1-4437908

[ronaldo7]

New Unionist:wink: councillor blasted by his own party.

https://t.co/t41FiC4ZzF

https://t.co/Grc1BaCGma

[pacoluna]

Much is made of Jeremy Corbyn supporting, or at least being sympathetic to, the IRA in the 1980s.

Why is nobody talking about Theresa May and much of her cabinet being members of a party that supported apartheid during the same time period?

[Moulin Yarns]

Despicable!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-fox-hunting-bring-back-ban-repeal-conservative-tories-general-election-rural-vote-a7726506.html

They will be culling badgers next!!

[Hibrandenburg]

Despicable!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-fox-hunting-bring-back-ban-repeal-conservative-tories-general-election-rural-vote-a7726506.html

They will be culling badgers next!!

You'd think she's trying to lose the election. :hmmm:

[ronaldo7]

New Unionist:wink: councillor blasted by his own party.

https://t.co/t41FiC4ZzF

https://t.co/Grc1BaCGma

It seems, some parents in Dunblane are meeting to see if they can get this walloper to stand down.

His twitter feed is disgusting.

[marinello59]

New Unionist:wink: councillor blasted by his own party.

https://t.co/t41FiC4ZzF

https://t.co/Grc1BaCGma

I would have said he had managed the unlikely feat of being too despicable for the Tories but he is still there. Given that they have all but merged with UKIP there will be others like him about no doubt.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

So the CPS arent taking forward prosecutions after all.

I wonder if all those who were quick enough to slag them off will have the good manners to apologise for presuming guilt?

[pacoluna]

So the CPS arent taking forward prosecutions after all.

I wonder if all those who were quick enough to slag them off will have the good manners to apologise for presuming guilt?

I'm still waiting on your apology for your personal attacks on me by calling me a bigot and a zealot amongst other accusations.

P.S they got fined by the electoral commission. CPS said they recognised inaccuracies but wasn't in public interest to charge. :rolleyes:

[G B Young]

So the CPS arent taking forward prosecutions after all.

I wonder if all those who were quick enough to slag them off will have the good manners to apologise for presuming guilt?

I felt that Nicola Sturgeon and IIRC Alex Salmond were sailing quite close to the wind in terms of implying criminal guilt while the investigation was ongoing:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/24/sturgeon-claims-may-called-snap-election-because-of-fears-over-expenses

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15239293.Alex_Salmond__May_knew_she_was_going_to_l ose_Tory_MPs_to_the_expenses_scandal_____that_s_th e_real_reason_we_re_having_an_election/?ref=mrb&lp=11

The announcement that there will be no charges will doubtless spark mutterings of an alleged establishment 'cover up' but there's no question this is a good day for the Tory election campaign and very frustrating one for the opposition parties.

[Moulin Yarns]

So the CPS arent taking forward prosecutions after all.

I wonder if all those who were quick enough to slag them off will have the good manners to apologise for presuming guilt?


"Although there is evidence to suggest the returns may have been inaccurate, there is insufficient evidence to prove to the criminal standard that any candidate or agent was dishonest," said Nick Vamos, head of special crime at the CPS, in a statement.

Insufficient evidence, that implies there would have been charges if there had been more evidence. We will wait for the South Thanet investigation before passing judgement.

[marinello59]

Insufficient evidence, that implies there would have been charges if there had been more evidence. We will wait for the South Thanet investigation before passing judgement.

When this broke I struggled to see how the individual MP's could be held responsible and thought that there must be much more we didn't know. I also expect the other parties to push too hard tough, they won't want to question the impartiality of the CPS and they will be aware that they are all guilty of bending the rules a bit when it comes to spending.
The electoral commission needs its powers beefed up as a matter of urgency to stop this happening in the future. The Tories will see their relatively low fine as part of their normal running costs.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'm still waiting on your apology for your personal attacks on me by calling me a bigot and a zealot amongst other accusations.

P.S they got fined by the electoral commission. CPS said they recognised inaccuracies but wasn't in public interest to charge. :rolleyes:

I called you a zealot - i dont think i called you a bigot though, if i did i unreservedly apologise.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Insufficient evidence, that implies there would have been charges if there had been more evidence. We will wait for the South Thanet investigation before passing judgement.

Ha ha, that is true of every alleged crime, ever.

[ronaldo7]

Theresa May, Liar, or just making it up as she goes along?

https://t.co/YXQoU5q7qu

[tcm1875]

Theresa May, Liar, or just making it up as she goes along?

https://t.co/YXQoU5q7qu

A liar making it up as she goes along.......

[marinello59]

Theresa May, Liar, or just making it up as she goes along?

https://t.co/YXQoU5q7qu

She is a bare faced liar. May is scoring highly on the Thatchometer when it comes to politicians I despise.

[Hibrandenburg]

She rarely says anything of substance and therefore rarely gets caught talking porkies, but this time she really should apologise.

[G B Young]

Theresa May, Liar, or just making it up as she goes along?

https://t.co/YXQoU5q7qu

My guess would be she's been incorrectly briefed about this guy. IIRC the investigation was also dropped in his case due to insufficient evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/snp-mp-chris-law-police-dundee-west

Could also be a reference to former SNP MP Natalie McGarry, who I'm pretty sure WAS actually charged with fraud, though I can't remember if it was directly related to election expenses (and of course the SNP subsequently ditched her).

[ronaldo7]

My guess would be she's been incorrectly briefed about this guy. IIRC the investigation was also dropped in his case due to insufficient evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/snp-mp-chris-law-police-dundee-west

Could also be a reference to former SNP MP Natalie McGarry, who I'm pretty sure WAS actually charged with fraud, though I can't remember if it was directly related to election expenses (and of course the SNP subsequently ditched her).

Chris Law was cleared of "ANY" wrongdoing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38782007

Not sure how Natalie is getting on with her case, however the link I posted was regarding the Tory election fraud in which they were fined £70k, and then Theresa May has tried to smear the SNP when she said other parties have been fined, including the SNP.

The Electoral commission have said they've never, ever had to fine the SNP for such wrongdoings.

The result for May, is that it gets column inches, for the lie, and she'll just hunker down and let it all blow over without being held to account for her lies.

Something Carmichael was good at.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Chris Law was cleared of "ANY" wrongdoing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38782007

Not sure how Natalie is getting on with her case, however the link I posted was regarding the Tory election fraud in which they were fined £70k, and then Theresa May has tried to smear the SNP when she said other parties have been fined, including the SNP.

The Electoral commission have said they've never, ever had to fine the SNP for such wrongdoings.

The result for May, is that it gets column inches, for the lie, and she'll just hunker down and let it all blow over without being held to account for her lies.

Something Carmichael was good at.

You are right of course. If she said something wrong, she should apologise. And i wouldnt want to be the person who briefed her!

[Moulin Yarns]

My guess would be she's been incorrectly briefed about this guy. IIRC the investigation was also dropped in his case due to insufficient evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/snp-mp-chris-law-police-dundee-west

Could also be a reference to former SNP MP Natalie McGarry, who I'm pretty sure WAS actually charged with fraud, though I can't remember if it was directly related to election expenses (and of course the SNP subsequently ditched her).

for a start Chris Law and his Spirit of Independence was nothing to do with the SNP. Only later did Chris Law join the SNP.

Similarly with Natalie McGarry, it was to do with her time with Women for Independence, not the SNP.

Hey, don't let the facts get in the way of smearing any political party though :wink:

[JimBHibees]

You are right of course. If she said something wrong, she should apologise. And i wouldnt want to be the person who briefed her!

She will probably thank the person who briefed her as she knows the rabid right wing press in this country will run it as a headline so job done for her.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

for a start Chris Law and his Spirit of Independence was nothing to do with the SNP. Only later did Chris Law join the SNP.

Similarly with Natalie McGarry, it was to do with her time with Women for Independence, not the SNP.

Hey, don't let the facts get in the way of smearing any political party though :wink:

McGarry is snp through and through, and most of the yes campaign were SNP proxies. And she passed snp vetting (which im sure had nothing to do with her family connections).

But fraud is ok, as long as its not done in the SNPs name?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Meanwhile, the SNP leak and distort part of a letter from the UK govt on fishing.

Fishing industry comes out amd says the SNP are wrong.

Honest miatake or deliberately telling lies? The fisherman seemed pretty sure which...

[makaveli1875]

Meanwhile, the SNP leak and distort part of a letter from the UK govt on fishing.

Fishing industry comes out amd says the SNP are wrong.

Honest miatake or deliberately telling lies? The fisherman seemed pretty sure which...

the SNP telling lies . Surely not :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

McGarry is snp through and through, and most of the yes campaign were SNP proxies. And she passed snp vetting (which im sure had nothing to do with her family connections).

But fraud is ok, as long as its not done in the SNPs name?

Did you bother to read anything about either case, or what our lying PM said? I take it fraud is OK so long as it is done in the name of the Tories though.

Chris Law, was not an MP and therefore the SNP were not even investigated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38782007

Natalie McGarry, resigned the SNP whip, rather than the SNP ditching her as GBY claims. The investigation, which is on-going, is into WFI and not the SNP, unlike the Tory election fraud, which is on-going in Thanet South.

The Tory party were investigated and fined £70k for other 'irregularites'.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Did you bother to read anything about either case, or what our lying PM said? I take it fraud is OK so long as it is done in the name of the Tories though.

Chris Law, was not an MP and therefore the SNP were not even investigated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38782007

Natalie McGarry, resigned the SNP whip, rather than the SNP ditching her as GBY claims. The investigation, which is on-going, is into WFI and not the SNP, unlike the Tory election fraud, which is on-going in Thanet South.

The Tory party were investigated and fined £70k for other 'irregularites'.

I never mentioned anything about Chris Law. I said if the PM said something untrue she should apologise - i said that above.

Ha ha, she resigned, so thats ok. I think she has been charged, which would suggest the investigation is complete.

Anyway, i dont really care who said what. All politicians tell lies, all political parties will habe dodgy characters, because that's life.

Im not defending the tories, if they do wrong they should be hammered.

I just camt stand this sanctimonious attitude that only the tories would do anything bad.

The SnP alone have had -

McGarry being charged with fraud
Thomson having to resign and be deselected
The wife beater in Fife
The councillor in the highlands who had to resign for fiddling expenses
Angus Robertson's wife, being involved in a lobbying scandal
Angus Robertson, despite promising to do the opposite, profiting from his second home and NOT giving the money to charity as he promised

And of course a couple of 'in-house' sleaze stories involving senior cabinet secretaries and wdstminster spokesmen. And there are a fee stories that go around political circles about our former FM Salmond.

The SNP are no worse than anyone else, but nor are they any better. Political parties are made up of people, and people are flawed, they make mistakea, say and do stupid things. They all do it.

[Moulin Yarns]

See this upcoming General Election? Is anyone voting for Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn?

reason I ask was because I watched the Party Election Broadcast by the Conservative and Unionist Party last night

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08qfvr5/party-election-broadcasts-conservative-party-general-election

It appears we have a choice of 2 candidates.

[WeeRussell]

I never mentioned anything about Chris Law. I said if the PM said something untrue she should apologise - i said that above.

Ha ha, she resigned, so thats ok. I think she has been charged, which would suggest the investigation is complete.

Anyway, i dont really care who said what. All politicians tell lies, all political parties will habe dodgy characters, because that's life.

Im not defending the tories, if they do wrong they should be hammered.

I just camt stand this sanctimonious attitude that only the tories would do anything bad.

The SnP alone have had -

McGarry being charged with fraud
Thomson having to resign and be deselected
The wife beater in Fife
The councillor in the highlands who had to resign for fiddling expenses
Angus Robertson's wife, being involved in a lobbying scandal
Angus Robertson, despite promising to do the opposite, profiting from his second home and NOT giving the money to charity as he promised

And of course a couple of 'in-house' sleaze stories involving senior cabinet secretaries and wdstminster spokesmen. And there are a fee stories that go around political circles about our former FM Salmond.

The SNP are no worse than anyone else, but nor are they any better. Political parties are made up of people, and people are flawed, they make mistakea, say and do stupid things. They all do it.

Let's put aside the fact that nearly every one of your posts (including replies) on this thread about the Tories make negative reference to the SNP, for a second. Therefore the following is meant generally speaking - not defending or criticising any political parties in particular:

Of course some parties are worse than others for telling "lies" and having "dodgy people"! Some humans are worse at being flawed and making mistakes, and some parties have more of these humans than others. There is absolutely no way that stories and investigations can just be brushed off because "they all do it"!

You said the Tories should be hammered for doing wrong, which they are being (in a thread entitled 'tories') - does every other party's history of misdemeanours have to be discussed at length as well to stop us all having a "sanctimonious" attitude? Or perhaps just the SNP's?

You are completely entitled to start your own thread and have a go at the SNP, post after post, with anyone who wants to discuss with you. I mean that genuinely, and not as a p**s take. You may find that people are more receptive when it's on-topic, and it would seem less like you only enjoy arguing with those holding differing views to you (i.e. trolling).

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Let's put aside the fact that nearly every one of your posts (including replies) on this thread about the Tories make negative reference to the SNP, for a second. Therefore the following is meant generally speaking - not defending or criticising any political parties in particular:

Of course some parties are worse than others for telling "lies" and having "dodgy people"! Some humans are worse at being flawed and making mistakes, and some parties have more of these humans than others. There is absolutely no way that stories and investigations can just be brushed off because "they all do it"!

You said the Tories should be hammered for doing wrong, which they are being (in a thread entitled 'tories') - does every other party's history of misdemeanours have to be discussed at length as well to stop us all having a "sanctimonious" attitude? Or perhaps just the SNP's?

You are completely entitled to start your own thread and have a go at the SNP, post after post, with anyone who wants to discuss with you. I mean that genuinely, and not as a p**s take. You may find that people are more receptive when it's on-topic, and it would seem less like you only enjoy arguing with those holding differing views to you (i.e. trolling).

So presenting context and alternative views is trolling?

Ok then.

The reason i make points about the SNP is to provide context, and to counter some of the points made here. Id say comparing other parties records was absolutely relevant to a discussion about how bad the tories are- how else do you contextualise?

I realise that many here want to just bash the tories, even when it isnt true, i just try to bring some balance.

That is not trolling. It says a lot about the mentality of mnny people with closed minds about politics, that disagreemrnt amd dischord is seen as trolling.

But fair enough, ill bow out.

[JeMeSouviens]

So presenting context and alternative views is trolling?

Ok then.

The reason i make points about the SNP is to provide context, and to counter some of the points made here. Id say comparing other parties records was absolutely relevant to a discussion about how bad the tories are- how else do you contextualise?

I realise that many here want to just bash the tories, even when it isnt true, i just try to bring some balance.

That is not trolling. It says a lot about the mentality of mnny people with closed minds about politics, that disagreemrnt amd dischord is seen as trolling.

But fair enough, ill bow out.

I think you (and maybe others, I haven't read back far enough) are conflating 2 things here: motivation for seeking power and corruption when that power is achieved. On the latter, the Tories are arguably no worse than anyone else (I suspect they might be a bit worse but I don't have figures. Anyway, I acknowledge there is corruption in all parties.) On the former, they are undoubtedly in it to conserve wealth and privilege amongst those who already have it and fight to impede and if necessary, roll back progress. It's their raison d'être. It's this basic malevolent attitude, **** the poor cos I'm all right Jack, that a lot of folk, me included, have so much trouble with. I would rather hack my arm off with a blunt spoon than vote for those ****s.

[WeeRussell]

So presenting context and alternative views is trolling?

Ok then.

The reason i make points about the SNP is to provide context, and to counter some of the points made here. Id say comparing other parties records was absolutely relevant to a discussion about how bad the tories are- how else do you contextualise?

I realise that many here want to just bash the tories, even when it isnt true, i just try to bring some balance.

That is not trolling. It says a lot about the mentality of mnny people with closed minds about politics, that disagreemrnt amd dischord is seen as trolling.

But fair enough, ill bow out.


Your points would be valid if the nature of your posts backed them up. Of course, constructive logical counter arguments are good for conversation - persistent needless, unfounded digs are not.

I haven't posted much on this thread (I don't feel my political knowledge is insightful enough to add much of value) but I have been following a lot of the conversation, within which it seems you jump on any post discussing anything, and relate it to an excuse to bash the SNP. Moreover if someone disagrees or pulls you up on this - they are an undercover SNP activist, zealot, or not a UK resident and therefore not deserving of an opinion.

Nothing to do with my political mentality - Only what I've seen from reading the thread. And I never alluded to any agreement or disagreement with anyone's political stance or previous posts, I only stated my issue with the way you conduct yourself on this thread - If I've mixed you up with another poster along the way, I wholeheartedly apologise :aok:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Your points would be valid if the nature of your posts backed them up. Of course, constructive logical counter arguments are good for conversation - persistent needless, unfounded digs are not.

I haven't posted much on this thread (I don't feel my political knowledge is insightful enough to add much of value) but I have been following a lot of the conversation, within which it seems you jump on any post discussing anything, and relate it to an excuse to bash the SNP. Moreover if someone disagrees or pulls you up on this - they are an undercover SNP activist, zealot, or not a UK resident and therefore not deserving of an opinion.

Nothing to do with my political mentality - Only what I've seen from reading the thread. And I never alluded to any agreement or disagreement with anyone's political stance or previous posts, I only stated my issue with the way you conduct yourself on this thread - If I've mixed you up with another poster along the way, I wholeheartedly apologise :aok:

No apology required mate, ill take the hint!

I just hope the same standards are apllied to other posters. And i have only accused one person of being an SNP activist.

Ill say no more, promise!

[Moulin Yarns]

So presenting context and alternative views is trolling?

Ok then.

The reason i make points about the SNP is to provide context, and to counter some of the points made here. Id say comparing other parties records was absolutely relevant to a discussion about how bad the tories are- how else do you contextualise?

I realise that many here want to just bash the tories, even when it isnt true, i just try to bring some balance.

That is not trolling. It says a lot about the mentality of mnny people with closed minds about politics, that disagreemrnt amd dischord is seen as trolling.

But fair enough, ill bow out.


I never mentioned anything about Chris Law. I said if the PM said something untrue she should apologise - i said that above.

Ha ha, she resigned, so thats ok. I think she has been charged, which would suggest the investigation is complete.

Anyway, i dont really care who said what. All politicians tell lies, all political parties will habe dodgy characters, because that's life.

Im not defending the tories, if they do wrong they should be hammered.

I just camt stand this sanctimonious attitude that only the tories would do anything bad.

The SnP alone have had -

McGarry being charged with fraud Women for Indy, not SNP related
Thomson having to resign and be deselected Property deals, not SNP related
The wife beater in Fife need to be a bit more specific, there are 'possibly' more than one :wink:
The councillor in the highlands who had to resign for fiddling expenses Again, who?
Angus Robertson's wife, being involved in a lobbying scandal Do you mean T in the Park?
Angus Robertson, despite promising to do the opposite, profiting from his second home and NOT giving the money to charity as he promised


A spokesman for Mr Robertson said: 'The flat was disposed of in the run up to Mr Robertson's divorce as part of the settlement.

'Its furniture and contents were distributed to Moray based charities and he did not profit from the sale of the flat.

'Angus Robertson is focused on representing his constituents - unlike his Tory opponent who has repeatedly missed key Holyrood votes to do his job as an assistant football referee - for which he draws a £40,000 salary - and who is now seeking a third job.'
The Daily Mail

And of course a couple of 'in-house' sleaze stories involving senior cabinet secretaries and wdstminster spokesmen. And there are a fee stories that go around political circles about our former FM Salmond.

The SNP are no worse than anyone else, but nor are they any better. Political parties are made up of people, and people are flawed, they make mistakea, say and do stupid things. They all do it.

To put it into context right enough. What have you got on the Lib Dems and Greens??

[makaveli1875]

To put it into context right enough. What have you got on the Lib Dems and Greens??

Sniff my spaniel and il give you the dirt :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

New Unionist:wink: councillor blasted by his own party.

https://t.co/t41FiC4ZzF

https://t.co/Grc1BaCGma


at least the boys brigade have some morals..and sacked the pervert, unlike the tory party

[cabbageandribs1875]

Let's put aside the fact that nearly every one of your posts (including replies) on this thread about the Tories make negative reference to the SNP, for a second. Therefore the following is meant generally speaking - not defending or criticising any political parties in particular:

Of course some parties are worse than others for telling "lies" and having "dodgy people"! Some humans are worse at being flawed and making mistakes, and some parties have more of these humans than others. There is absolutely no way that stories and investigations can just be brushed off because "they all do it"!

You said the Tories should be hammered for doing wrong, which they are being (in a thread entitled 'tories') - does every other party's history of misdemeanours have to be discussed at length as well to stop us all having a "sanctimonious" attitude? Or perhaps just the SNP's?

You are completely entitled to start your own thread and have a go at the SNP, post after post, with anyone who wants to discuss with you. I mean that genuinely, and not as a p**s take. You may find that people are more receptive when it's on-topic, and it would seem less like you only enjoy arguing with those holding differing views to you (i.e. trolling).


i can't find a 11 out of 10 smiley so can only give this a :top marks

[makaveli1875]

Let's put aside the fact that nearly every one of your posts (including replies) on this thread about the Tories make negative reference to the SNP, for a second. Therefore the following is meant generally speaking - not defending or criticising any political parties in particular:

Of course some parties are worse than others for telling "lies" and having "dodgy people"! Some humans are worse at being flawed and making mistakes, and some parties have more of these humans than others. There is absolutely no way that stories and investigations can just be brushed off because "they all do it"!

You said the Tories should be hammered for doing wrong, which they are being (in a thread entitled 'tories') - does every other party's history of misdemeanours have to be discussed at length as well to stop us all having a "sanctimonious" attitude? Or perhaps just the SNP's?

You are completely entitled to start your own thread and have a go at the SNP, post after post, with anyone who wants to discuss with you. I mean that genuinely, and not as a p**s take. You may find that people are more receptive when it's on-topic, and it would seem less like you only enjoy arguing with those holding differing views to you (i.e. trolling).

bit harsh to be honest

you've got SNP supporters that sit and endlessly post links to tory scandals and allegations with grinning smileys and pats on the back. Then somebody dares to point out an SNP misdemeanor and its like - shut up you troll

a convenient way to silence the dissenters

[G B Young]

Natalie McGarry, resigned the SNP whip, rather than the SNP ditching her as GBY claims.

Fair enough, although having decided against having her stand as an SNP candidate next month is it fair to say they've quietly bumped her?

Given the other holes she's dug for herself in addition to the fraud charges it's probably a wise move:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36247439

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35438141

[WeeRussell]

bit harsh to be honest

you've got SNP supporters that sit and endlessly post links to tory scandals and allegations with grinning smileys and pats on the back. Then somebody dares to point out an SNP misdemeanor and its like - shut up you troll

a convenient way to silence the dissenters

Should I copy and paste my follow-up post, or indeed Golden Fleece's, when the said poster challenged with a similar response? It's only "convenient" when accurate.

I suspect that you calling it harsh and giving general comments about "smileys and pats on the back" without any real evidence, is in a similar vein to the "ok then" response I got from the previous poster - who, by the way, I have nothing against personally or generally. I am speaking only on this thread alone.

The thread is about the Tories - chances are there will be a few links about their scandals and allegations. Defend them where there's reasonable defending to be done, by all means. I simply pointed out that desperate slurs on the SNP as a reaction to anything anti-tory gets boring on this thread. I'm not a moderator, nor (as I hinted at) a politics guru, I am only adding comment based on what I've read throughout this thread. No need for anyone to "bow out".. unless of course they feel they can't post in a reasonable manner on this particular topic :wink:

SouthsideHarpBoy asked that the same standards are applied to other posters, and I am applying the same to yourself. "Then somebody dares to point out an SNP misdemeanor and its like - shut up you troll" is utter nonsense. It's merely been pointed out that relentless slagging of the SNP, even when proved irrelevant or inaccurate or where there is no link to the original point, on this thread could easily be conceived as trolling.

All IMHO of course :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Tory campaign manifesto has now been leaked.

1. Tell the EU to GTF

2. Stable

3. Kill foxes

4. Strong

5. Love rich people

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Should I copy and paste my follow-up post, or indeed Golden Fleece's, when the said poster challenged with a similar response? It's only "convenient" when accurate.

I suspect that you calling it harsh and giving general comments about "smileys and pats on the back" without any real evidence, is in a similar vein to the "ok then" response I got from the previous poster - who, by the way, I have nothing against personally or generally. I am speaking only on this thread alone.

The thread is about the Tories - chances are there will be a few links about their scandals and allegations. Defend them where there's reasonable defending to be done, by all means. I simply pointed out that desperate slurs on the SNP as a reaction to anything anti-tory gets boring on this thread. I'm not a moderator, nor (as I hinted at) a politics guru, I am only adding comment based on what I've read throughout this thread. No need for anyone to "bow out".. unless of course they feel they can't post in a reasonable manner on this particular topic :wink:

SouthsideHarpBoy asked that the same standards are applied to other posters, and I am applying the same to yourself. "Then somebody dares to point out an SNP misdemeanor and its like - shut up you troll" is utter nonsense. It's merely been pointed out that relentless slagging of the SNP, even when proved irrelevant or inaccurate or where there is no link to the original point, on this thread could easily be conceived as trolling.

All IMHO of course :greengrin

Just to defend myself a wee bit here.

If you think this thread is a discussion of the tories, merits and otherwise, i think you are wrong. I get accused of anti-snp. The reason for that was due to what i think is snp propoganda being posted here. In my mind, i was countering that. Not because im a big tory, im actually not, but because i think these boards being used like twitter, to pump out pro-snp lines, or snp attack lines on their rivals is out of order, because it is beimg done surreptitiously, amd to my mind unethically.

An example - endless posts, links amd innuendo over the investigation into electoral fraud. All inaccurate. Yet nobody is big enough to admit they were wrong amd jumped the gun. Golden Fleece even used the cathroesque excuse that the CPS found no evidence, but if there had been more evidelce there might have beem charges - no ****!!

Of course i like an argument, i enjoy it, i learn from it. Im sure most of the regular posters here would say similar. I genuinely not aligned to any party, but i have an interest in politics. Lots of the discussions are good. I habe openly said i have a problem with our own resident SNP politicL education officers, but because the majority are pro-SnP that is allowed.

Sorry for the rant, and i am not going to post on this thread anymore, because im not a troll and i dont wamt to come across as one, and apologies if i have. Bit if you cant see that relentless attacks on the SNP's main electoral rival at this election are in effect (if not in content) pro-snp posts, then, i can see why i would come across to you as i have.

And one last point, the above posts were accurate. Golden Fleece retorts do not dispel them of you read them carefully.

The Robertson quote talks about furniture proceeds going to charity, not the prpdit from the house, mcgarry was an SNP MP when charged, the lobbyong links between angus robertsons wife, amd in fact many ex SNP advisers, amd decisons that are dubious are well known amd habe been documented in the Herald, the SNP councillor in the highlands did leave because of expense fiddling, the SNP MSP fpr dunfsrmline had numerous convictions for domestic assault, amd the personal sleaze stories are well known without me repeatimg them. They were not inaccurate, they just challenge the idea that the tories are uniqiely bad.

Anyway, hopefully we can debate further in the future on other topics!

[ronaldo7]

Fair enough, although having decided against having her stand as an SNP candidate next month is it fair to say they've quietly bumped her?

Given the other holes she's dug for herself in addition to the fraud charges it's probably a wise move:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36247439

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35438141

She decided not to stand again, due to her becoming pregnant recently.

[ronaldo7]

To put it into context right enough. What have you got on the Lib Dems and Greens??

It seems he's made most of it up then.:greengrin

[G B Young]

She decided not to stand again, due to her becoming pregnant recently.

Yes, I was aware of that. However the SNP announced they wouldn't be endorsing her or Michelle Thomson for the forthcoming election before McGarry announced she wouldn't be standing again, so what I was asking was whether that effectively meant the party have cut ties with them. It would seem so from the tone of this piece:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ruthless-nicola-sturgeon-axes-snp-10278386

[ronaldo7]

Yes, I was aware of that. However the SNP announced they wouldn't be endorsing her or Michelle Thomson for the forthcoming election before McGarry announced she wouldn't be standing again, so what I was asking was whether that effectively meant the party have cut ties with them. It would seem so from the tone of this piece:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ruthless-nicola-sturgeon-axes-snp-10278386

I'd agree, the party were never going to endorse her standing again. Things have worked out well for both then.:wink:

[DaveF]

Just to defend myself a wee bit here.

If you think this thread is a discussion of the tories, merits and otherwise, i think you are wrong. I get accused of anti-snp. The reason for that was due to what i think is snp propoganda being posted here. In my mind, i was countering that. Not because im a big tory, im actually not, but because i think these boards being used like twitter, to pump out pro-snp lines, or snp attack lines on their rivals is out of order, because it is beimg done surreptitiously, amd to my mind unethically.

An example - endless posts, links amd innuendo over the investigation into electoral fraud. All inaccurate. Yet nobody is big enough to admit they were wrong amd jumped the gun. Golden Fleece even used the cathroesque excuse that the CPS found no evidence, but if there had been more evidelce there might have beem charges - no ****!!

Of course i like an argument, i enjoy it, i learn from it. Im sure most of the regular posters here would say similar. I genuinely not aligned to any party, but i have an interest in politics. Lots of the discussions are good. I habe openly said i have a problem with our own resident SNP politicL education officers, but because the majority are pro-SnP that is allowed.

Sorry for the rant, and i am not going to post on this thread anymore, because im not a troll and i dont wamt to come across as one, and apologies if i have. Bit if you cant see that relentless attacks on the SNP's main electoral rival at this election are in effect (if not in content) pro-snp posts, then, i can see why i would come across to you as i have.

And one last point, the above posts were accurate. Golden Fleece retorts do not dispel them of you read them carefully.

The Robertson quote talks about furniture proceeds going to charity, not the prpdit from the house, mcgarry was an SNP MP when charged, the lobbyong links between angus robertsons wife, amd in fact many ex SNP advisers, amd decisons that are dubious are well known amd habe been documented in the Herald, the SNP councillor in the highlands did leave because of expense fiddling, the SNP MSP fpr dunfsrmline had numerous convictions for domestic assault, amd the personal sleaze stories are well known without me repeatimg them. They were not inaccurate, they just challenge the idea that the tories are uniqiely bad.

Anyway, hopefully we can debate further in the future on other topics!

Are you accusing the Admin Team of manipulating the debate? If so, just come out and say it - or expand that comment if you please?

For clarity, we let almost everything go on this board - Only JackLadd - who I'm sure you would agree crossed every line going - was binned from the debate.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Are you accusing the Admin Team of manipulating the debate? If so, just come out and say it - or expand that comment if you please?

For clarity, we let almost everything go on this board - Only JackLadd - who I'm sure you would agree crossed every line going - was binned from the debate.

I dont know who jack ladd is, so dont know what he did.

Absolutely not, i meant allowed in the sense that it is allowed by common consensus, i.e. not shouted down etc. Ive never had any run-ins with the admins here, and if i felt that i was being unfairly treated by admins, i would definitely say just that.

[ronaldo7]

Just to defend myself a wee bit here.

If you think this thread is a discussion of the tories, merits and otherwise, i think you are wrong. I get accused of anti-snp. The reason for that was due to what i think is snp propoganda being posted here. In my mind, i was countering that. Not because im a big tory, im actually not, but because i think these boards being used like twitter, to pump out pro-snp lines, or snp attack lines on their rivals is out of order, because it is beimg done surreptitiously, amd to my mind unethically.

An example - endless posts, links amd innuendo over the investigation into electoral fraud. All inaccurate. Yet nobody is big enough to admit they were wrong amd jumped the gun. Golden Fleece even used the cathroesque excuse that the CPS found no evidence, but if there had been more evidelce there might have beem charges - no ****!!

Of course i like an argument, i enjoy it, i learn from it. Im sure most of the regular posters here would say similar. I genuinely not aligned to any party, but i have an interest in politics. Lots of the discussions are good. I habe openly said i have a problem with our own resident SNP politicL education officers, but because the majority are pro-SnP that is allowed.

Sorry for the rant, and i am not going to post on this thread anymore, because im not a troll and i dont wamt to come across as one, and apologies if i have. Bit if you cant see that relentless attacks on the SNP's main electoral rival at this election are in effect (if not in content) pro-snp posts, then, i can see why i would come across to you as i have.

And one last point, the above posts were accurate. Golden Fleece retorts do not dispel them of you read them carefully.

The Robertson quote talks about furniture proceeds going to charity, not the prpdit from the house, mcgarry was an SNP MP when charged, the lobbyong links between angus robertsons wife, amd in fact many ex SNP advisers, amd decisons that are dubious are well known amd habe been documented in the Herald, the SNP councillor in the highlands did leave because of expense fiddling, the SNP MSP fpr dunfsrmline had numerous convictions for domestic assault, amd the personal sleaze stories are well known without me repeatimg them. They were not inaccurate, they just challenge the idea that the tories are uniqiely bad.

Anyway, hopefully we can debate further in the future on other topics!

You're taking things too seriously imo.

This board has been around for a long time. Long before many of us paid our tenner for the satisfaction of debate and discussion, and long may it continue.

Can you explain what posts are being posted surreptitiously on a public forum.:confused:

[DaveF]

I dont know who jack ladd is, so dont know what he did.

Absolutely not, i meant allowed in the sense that it is allowed by common consensus, i.e. not shouted down etc. Ive never had any run-ins with the admins here, and if i felt that i was being unfairly treated by admins, i would definitely say just that.

Thanks for the reply.

One thing I really don't get though, is the notion that pro-indy comments are not 'shouted down'.

I see plenty of responses from you, GB Young, Johnbc70, makiaveli etc who do just that. Or does that not count in some way?

[marinello59]

You're taking things too seriously imo.

This board has been around for a long time. Long before many of us paid our tenner for the satisfaction of debate and discussion, and long may it continue.

Can you explain what posts are being posted surreptitiously on a public forum.:confused:

I think you hinted once that you were an SNP supporter. You probably hoped to sneak it past us but I picked up on it. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

I think you hinted once that you were an SNP supporter. You probably hoped to sneak it past us but I picked up on it. :greengrin

Shhhh

I'll not get my surreptitious posts out there.

I knew you couldn't keep a secret.:greengrin

[WeeRussell]

Just to defend myself a wee bit here.

If you think this thread is a discussion of the tories, merits and otherwise, i think you are wrong. I get accused of anti-snp. The reason for that was due to what i think is snp propoganda being posted here. In my mind, i was countering that. Not because im a big tory, im actually not, but because i think these boards being used like twitter, to pump out pro-snp lines, or snp attack lines on their rivals is out of order, because it is beimg done surreptitiously, amd to my mind unethically.

An example - endless posts, links amd innuendo over the investigation into electoral fraud. All inaccurate. Yet nobody is big enough to admit they were wrong amd jumped the gun. Golden Fleece even used the cathroesque excuse that the CPS found no evidence, but if there had been more evidelce there might have beem charges - no ****!!

Of course i like an argument, i enjoy it, i learn from it. Im sure most of the regular posters here would say similar. I genuinely not aligned to any party, but i have an interest in politics. Lots of the discussions are good. I habe openly said i have a problem with our own resident SNP politicL education officers, but because the majority are pro-SnP that is allowed.

Sorry for the rant, and i am not going to post on this thread anymore, because im not a troll and i dont wamt to come across as one, and apologies if i have. Bit if you cant see that relentless attacks on the SNP's main electoral rival at this election are in effect (if not in content) pro-snp posts, then, i can see why i would come across to you as i have.

And one last point, the above posts were accurate. Golden Fleece retorts do not dispel them of you read them carefully.

The Robertson quote talks about furniture proceeds going to charity, not the prpdit from the house, mcgarry was an SNP MP when charged, the lobbyong links between angus robertsons wife, amd in fact many ex SNP advisers, amd decisons that are dubious are well known amd habe been documented in the Herald, the SNP councillor in the highlands did leave because of expense fiddling, the SNP MSP fpr dunfsrmline had numerous convictions for domestic assault, amd the personal sleaze stories are well known without me repeatimg them. They were not inaccurate, they just challenge the idea that the tories are uniqiely bad.

Anyway, hopefully we can debate further in the future on other topics!

Your final sentence, which I can't put in bold as I'm useless on my
Phone... absolutely - we'll probably find that we agree on a lot of things too! As I stated before, I genuinely don't wish to come across as personally aggressive or singling anyone out. We just happen to be in complete disagreement on this occasion.

[Moulin Yarns]

Just to defend myself a wee bit here.

If you think this thread is a discussion of the tories, merits and otherwise, i think you are wrong. I get accused of anti-snp. The reason for that was due to what i think is snp propoganda being posted here. In my mind, i was countering that. Not because im a big tory, im actually not, but because i think these boards being used like twitter, to pump out pro-snp lines, or snp attack lines on their rivals is out of order, because it is beimg done surreptitiously, amd to my mind unethically.

An example - endless posts, links amd innuendo over the investigation into electoral fraud. All inaccurate. Yet nobody is big enough to admit they were wrong amd jumped the gun. Golden Fleece even used the cathroesque excuse that the CPS found no evidence, but if there had been more evidelce there might have beem charges - no ****!!

Of course i like an argument, i enjoy it, i learn from it. Im sure most of the regular posters here would say similar. I genuinely not aligned to any party, but i have an interest in politics. Lots of the discussions are good. I habe openly said i have a problem with our own resident SNP politicL education officers, but because the majority are pro-SnP that is allowed.

Sorry for the rant, and i am not going to post on this thread anymore, because im not a troll and i dont wamt to come across as one, and apologies if i have. Bit if you cant see that relentless attacks on the SNP's main electoral rival at this election are in effect (if not in content) pro-snp posts, then, i can see why i would come across to you as i have.

And one last point, the above posts were accurate. Golden Fleece retorts do not dispel them of you read them carefully.

The Robertson quote talks about furniture proceeds going to charity, not the prpdit from the house, mcgarry was an SNP MP when charged, the lobbyong links between angus robertsons wife, amd in fact many ex SNP advisers, amd decisons that are dubious are well known amd habe been documented in the Herald, the SNP councillor in the highlands did leave because of expense fiddling, the SNP MSP fpr dunfsrmline had numerous convictions for domestic assault, amd the personal sleaze stories are well known without me repeatimg them. They were not inaccurate, they just challenge the idea that the tories are uniqiely bad.

Anyway, hopefully we can debate further in the future on other topics!


I think the main problem is, in the case of the alleged Election expense fraud by the Tories, it was allegedly perpetrated by the party, as I have already pointed out, but you fail to acknowledge, your initial counter claims against the SNP were nothing to do with the SNP, as I and others pointed out. Whether they later joined the SNP is irrelevant. McGarry was because of alleged embezzlement from WFI, Chris Law was to do with the Indy Ref, not an SNP run campaign.

Because of your incessant anti SNP posts I find myself defending the party I did not place first on the Council election ballot paper.

Now, if there is anything you can defend the Tories with feel free, or, as I asked above, spread your accusations to highlight the failings of all parties, for even handedness.

[G B Young]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-wilson-tory-free-scotland-an-appeal-past-its-sell-by-date-1-4443541

Being too young to recall the days when the Conservatives could muster more than 50% of the vote in Scotland I was never wholly convinced by the claims by some on here that there remains a dormant Tory support, so I found this article by Brian Wilson interesting from a historical perspective.

[Hibrandenburg]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-wilson-tory-free-scotland-an-appeal-past-its-sell-by-date-1-4443541

Being too young to recall the days when the Conservatives could muster more than 50% of the vote in Scotland I was never wholly convinced by the claims by some on here that there remains a dormant Tory support, so I found this article by Brian Wilson interesting from a historical perspective.

That article does a great job explaining why the tories were all but wiped out in Scotland. It also serves as a good reminder why it should stay that way.

[Just Alf]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-wilson-tory-free-scotland-an-appeal-past-its-sell-by-date-1-4443541

Being too young to recall the days when the Conservatives could muster more than 50% of the vote in Scotland I was never wholly convinced by the claims by some on here that there remains a dormant Tory support, so I found this article by Brian Wilson interesting from a historical perspective.


That article does a great job explaining why the tories were all but wiped out in Scotland. It also serves as a good reminder why it should stay that way.

Guys, any chance of a cut'n'paste?

I'm on an iPad and the Scotsman web site has so much bad frame formatting and click bait it sends the browser off on one, after the 6th reload it times out :-(

[G B Young]

Guys, any chance of a cut'n'paste?

I'm on an iPad and the Scotsman web site has so much bad frame formatting and click bait it sends the browser off on one, after the 6th reload it times out :-(

Agree about the Scotsman website. Almost too frustrating to bother using sometimes...anyway, here's the article:

Tory-free Scotland an appeal past its sell-by date

The SNP are the party of austerity and skewed priorities so it should not be surprising if voters conclude it is time to create SNP-free zones, writes Brian Wilson

Maybe it’s because of where I grew up that I never bought into the myth of Scotland as a “Tory-free zone” or thought it particularly clever to peddle it. The idea of there being no substantial body of conservative political opinion in Scotland is as far from the truth as the one about us all being Jock Tamson’s bairns united around egalitarian values unknown to lesser peoples (particularly in England).

Rural Scotland was once dominated by Tory MPs. The first I recall was Sir Duncan MacCallum, who represented Argyll of my childhood. Ostensibly, he was the kilted scion of landed gentry with a whiff of war hero and adventurer thrown in. It was a CV to guarantee the deference vote.

Actually, as my father enjoyed pointing out to local Tories, Sir Duncan was the son of a music hall favourite, Charles Coburn, who made his money from recording “The Man who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo” rather than anything more blue-blooded. His successor, Michael Noble, was another nouveau laird whose family fortune came from munitions on Tyneside.

But image was all and for the large proportion of the electorate who supported them – over 50 per cent in 1955 - the Scottish Tories were reliable, patrician and generally consensual. Secretaries of State like James Stuart, John McLay and Noble did not frighten the children with ideological zeal. By today’s standards, they were remarkably interventionist.

They brought in new industries to places like Linwood and Bathgate. In the early 1970s, a Tory-run Scottish Office created the big local government regions which did so much to improve strategic planning – much against their own political interest. In Alick Buchanan-Smith, they had the most liberally enlightened Justice Minister Scotland has seen. They may have been opponents but were not pantomime villains.

Against that background, the eclipse of Scottish Tory representation over the past 30 years has been a distortion which was largely self-inflicted. It fed both the rise of Nationalism and an exaggerated narrative of “difference”, neither of which has proved healthy for Scotland. Though there was some crumbling through the 1970s in face of the “Scotland’s Oil” campaign, particularly in the North-East, it was guilt by association with the Thatcher era that really did for the Scottish Tories. It did not necessarily transform people’s underlying instincts but did change their voting habits, particularly by making the SNP a “respectable” non-Labour alternative in much of Scotland.

By encouraging the “anti-Tory” mindset, the Nationalists set out to create a façade of common purpose – hence the “Tory free zone” slogan. But, of course, that created for Labour a very large trap, as some of us tried to warn, for there never was any genuine common purpose. The SNP paid lip service to devolution but never saw it as anything other than a stepping-stone and in due course, once the scaffold was in place, turned their fire-power on Labour (while doing a deal with the Tories in 2007 to take control of Holyrood).

The current upsurge in Tory support is a long overdue development which has been awaiting some cathartic event to release it. Nicola Sturgeon’s opportunistic demand for a second independence referendum, less than three years after the last one, finally did the trick. A more productive political dynamic may yet be resumed as a result, if the constitutional issue can be side-lined. Headlines about the risen poor, from Ferguslie Park to Cowdenbeath, turning to the Tories in their cathartic hour owe more to poetic licence than reality.

The more prosaic truth is that many Scots who identify their economic interests with right-of-centre politics and constitutional stability now feel no barrier to saying so through the ballot box. Why should they? For the Scottish Tories, the challenge is to confirm themselves as a modern centre-right party, freed from the baggage which put them beyond the pale for so long. It is still a tough ask which relies not only on how they currently present themselves but also the shortness of memories, including folk memories.

But time does move on. When Sturgeon relies on the assumption that snarling the word “Tory” will send voters in search of repentance, she is appealing to perceptions which are past their natural sell-by date. If much of Scotland (at that time, not yet born) can forgive the SNP for voting to bring Thatcher to power (did you know that, young people?), then it is not a big stretch to marginalise the Thatcherite bogey after 25 years. Some of us, of course, go back even further to find reasons why our hands would fall off at the prospect of voting Tory.

In industrial Scotland, they were the party of the hard-nosed employer, who hated trade unions and ground the faces of the poor. In rural Scotland, they were the party of landlordism and feudal power, capriciously exercised. It may be that, beneath the veneer, they are still all of these things but the SNP’s mistake is to assume that is still an a priori assumption shared by many Scots, who may have been brought up not to like the Tories but find it quite difficult to equate what they see at present with the bogey-man images from the past.

However, in their current flush of success, Ruth Davidson and Co should be aware that it would not take much to reverse that benefit of the doubt. With this week’s disgraceful revelations about plummeting literacy standards in Scottish schools, it is more obvious than ever that the shadow of constitutional upheaval must be removed from Holyrood, if we are ever going to progress on any other front. From my political position, I want to debate with the centre-right about how better to use scarce resources to stimulate the Scottish economy, educate our children, run our NHS and care for those in need. That will never happen in any intelligent, dynamic way until the constitutional issue is taken off the table and Scottish politics moves on.

On devolved issues, the Scottish Nationalists are now the party of austerity, skewed priorities and widespread incompetence in government. It should not be surprising if voters conclude it is now essential to create SNP-free zones and vote tactically to achieve that.

[G B Young]

Thanks for the reply.

One thing I really don't get though, is the notion that pro-indy comments are not 'shouted down'.

I see plenty of responses from you, GB Young, Johnbc70, makiaveli etc who do just that. Or does that not count in some way?

It's not my intention to 'shout down' any pro-indy comments, simply to put my own viewpoint forward. Given how relatively few people actually post on here regularly it's hardly an ideal forum for trying to whip up widespread support for one's political beliefs. I'm certainly not on here to change anyone's mind, or indeed to fall out with anyone.

Personally, I think the sub-forums on .net are a great thing and an enjoyable wee diversion from talking about Hibs and football. If I started taking them too seriously I wouldn't bother posting. No point in getting yourself too worked up over what, by and large, is a forum for respectful debate. It's also worth remembering that we're all Hibs supporters and the fact that we can embrace a fairly broad church of opinions on here has got to be a good thing.

[Moulin Yarns]

Some light hearted relief, the new series of Ladybird Books has been launched :wink:

Ladybird (http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/05/11/ruth-meets-a-journalist/)

[grunt]

Brian Wilson. An example of the Scotsman's newly vaunted "neutral" stance, I'm guessing. :wink:
That man has so much hatred - and I use that work deliberately - for the SNP.
He talks about skewed priorities, but it seems his own vision is also somewhat skewed.
Wonder why.

[JeMeSouviens]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-wilson-tory-free-scotland-an-appeal-past-its-sell-by-date-1-4443541

Being too young to recall the days when the Conservatives could muster more than 50% of the vote in Scotland I was never wholly convinced by the claims by some on here that there remains a dormant Tory support, so I found this article by Brian Wilson interesting from a historical perspective.

Christ, he is one bitter old man. :rolleyes:

Anyway, apart from the usual tired old Labour lie about the SNP voting in Thatcher, his historical perspective is somewhat skewed. The party that won 50% of the vote in 1955 was the Scottish Unionist Party which at the time was independent of the UK Conservative party although along with the Ulster Unionists, they did take the Tory whip at Westminster. They did make a thing out of being distinctively Scottish though, as well as playing up to the working class Orange vote, again in a similar way to the Ulster Unionists (the Union in the "Unionist Party" name refers to Ireland, not Scotland, they were originally a breakaway from the Liberals opposed to the Liberal policy of Irish Home Rule).

[DaveF]

It's not my intention to 'shout down' any pro-indy comments, simply to put my own viewpoint forward. Given how relatively few people actually post on here regularly it's hardly an ideal forum for trying to whip up widespread support for one's political beliefs. I'm certainly not on here to change anyone's mind, or indeed to fall out with anyone.

Personally, I think the sub-forums on .net are a great thing and an enjoyable wee diversion from talking about Hibs and football. If I started taking them too seriously I wouldn't bother posting. No point in getting yourself too worked up over what, by and large, is a forum for respectful debate. It's also worth remembering that we're all Hibs supporters and the fact that we can embrace a fairly broad church of opinions on here has got to be a good thing.

Shout down wasn't my phrase and I wasn't meaning to accuse you of doing that. I just lumped your name into the 'other' camp as I was being lazy :-)

[G B Young]

Christ, he is one bitter old man. :rolleyes:

Anyway, apart from the usual tired old Labour lie about the SNP voting in Thatcher, his historical perspective is somewhat skewed. The party that won 50% of the vote in 1955 was the Scottish Unionist Party which at the time was independent of the UK Conservative party although along with the Ulster Unionists, they did take the Tory whip at Westminster. They did make a thing out of being distinctively Scottish though, as well as playing up to the working class Orange vote, again in a similar way to the Ulster Unionists (the Union in the "Unionist Party" name refers to Ireland, not Scotland, they were originally a breakaway from the Liberals opposed to the Liberal policy of Irish Home Rule).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9903781/The-history-the-SNP-is-trying-to-forget.html

I'm guessing that with Alan Cochrane's piece on this having been published in the Telegraph there's an anti-SNP slant to it, but as with Wilson's recollections of the 1950s (when I wasn't born) I wasn't old enough to be much aware of the downfall of Callaghan's Labour government. Out of interest, in what way are Labour lying by saying the SNP played a key part in Thatcher's success?

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://www.change.org/p/councillor-neil-benny-extremist-tory-coucillors-alistair-majury-and-robert-davies-resign-fromstirling-council


no council should have a pervert acting on behalf of decent people in the community




sack the perv :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Ruth's friends leave a lot to be desired. The Ukipification of the Tories is almost complete.

https://t.co/c0HcsC94cV

[Hibrandenburg]

Ruth's friends leave a lot to be desired. The Ukipification of the Tories is almost complete.

https://t.co/c0HcsC94cV

Seems like a level headed guy.

[ronaldo7]

Seems like a level headed guy.

I wonder if the MSM will be hounding Ruth, just as they did the FM, to distance herself from these morons?

Not holding my breath. Double standards once again.

[Hibrandenburg]

I wonder if the MSM will be hounding Ruth, just as they did the FM, to distance herself from these morons?

Not holding my breath. Double standards once again.

List of people the MSM won't hound:

1. The Tories

2. Unionists

3. Rangers

Have you joined the dots yet?

[ronaldo7]

List of people the MSM won't hound:

1. The Tories

2. Unionists

3. Rangers

Have you joined the dots yet?

Tories eh, what are they like.:wink: Looks like the long arm of the law will be paying him a visit soon.

https://t.co/V2fjNz6ceK

[cabbageandribs1875]

well well well, ruth davidson now thinks it's a great idea to give scots free prescriptions....after years of berating the SNP for introducing it :rolleyes: ruth davidson and her merry band of perverts/racists makes my stomach churn :jamboak: as do her voters

[High-On-Hibs]

Not sure if posted already, but a Tory MP in Somerset tells a school child to "**** off back to Scotland" after asking her where she stood on Scottish independence and not getting the answer he wanted. :rolleyes:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-don%e2%80%99t-you-f-off-back-to-scotland-tory-mp-blasts-schoolgirl-wanting-scottish-independence/ar-BBB69T3?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout

Can't help thinking that if this had been the other way around and an SNP MP telling a school child to "**** off back to England", it would be all over the BBC, Sky News and the front page of every newspaper across the country....

On another note, Ruth Davidsons constant obsession with the IRA and her cozying up to one of Scotlands deepest shames, should have even the most die hard of tory supports in Scotland worried.
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863667317623984128

https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863665259894247425 (https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863665259894247425)

[ronaldo7]

Not sure if posted already, but a Tory MP in Somerset tells a school child to "**** off back to Scotland" after asking her where she stood on Scottish independence and not getting the answer he wanted. :rolleyes:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-don%e2%80%99t-you-f-off-back-to-scotland-tory-mp-blasts-schoolgirl-wanting-scottish-independence/ar-BBB69T3?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout

Can't help thinking that if this had been the other way around and an SNP MP telling a school child to "**** off back to England", it would be all over the BBC, Sky News and the front page of every newspaper across the country....

On another note, Ruth Davidsons constant obsession with the IRA and her cozying up to one of Scotlands deepest shames, should have even the most die hard of tory supports in Scotland worried.
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863667317623984128

https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863665259894247425 (https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863665259894247425)

More dog whistle politics for her sectarian friends.

[Mon Dieu4]

Not sure if posted already, but a Tory MP in Somerset tells a school child to "**** off back to Scotland" after asking her where she stood on Scottish independence and not getting the answer he wanted. :rolleyes:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-don%e2%80%99t-you-f-off-back-to-scotland-tory-mp-blasts-schoolgirl-wanting-scottish-independence/ar-BBB69T3?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout

Can't help thinking that if this had been the other way around and an SNP MP telling a school child to "**** off back to England", it would be all over the BBC, Sky News and the front page of every newspaper across the country....

On another note, Ruth Davidsons constant obsession with the IRA and her cozying up to one of Scotlands deepest shames, should have even the most die hard of tory supports in Scotland worried.
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863667317623984128

https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863665259894247425 (https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/863665259894247425)

Not normally a fan of her but Emily Thornburry destroyed the defence secretary on Andrew Marr this morning when this was brought up, she asked him where he'd been on a specific date in 2007, he'd been away in Syria congratulating Assad on getting 99% of the vote :not worth

[ronaldo7]

Not normally a fan of her but Emily Thornburry destroyed the defence secretary on Andrew Marr this morning when this was brought up, she asked him where he'd been on a specific date in 2007, he'd been away in Syria congratulating Assad on getting 99% of the vote :not worth

She did well there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMx1R2Vrto8

Some other stuff on Michael Fallon from Craig Murray.

I enjoyed, as much as anybody, Emily Thornberry’s ambush of Michael Fallon over his past cultivation of Assad. It is notable that the media themselves have interviewed Fallon continually during this election – he has been put out as May’s deflector shield – and no member of the media has ever mentioned it to him. Contrast that with the media’s treatment of Labour and SNP politicians.
I remember back further into Fallon’s past. 32 years ago, when I was the young occupant of the South Africa (Political) desk in the FCO, Fallon was a positive enthusiast for apartheid. Together with fellow St Andrews extreme Tory ideologue Michael Forsyth, Fallon was among those stiffening Thatcher in opposing all international sanctions against the apartheid regime, and opposing all British government interventions in individual cases of human rights abuse. I recall him arguing that apartheid South Africa had the “rule of law” and we should not interfere in its internal affairs. I recall him calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist.
Yet I do not recall any journalist bringing up Fallon’s past as a supporter of apartheid when he continually refers to Jeremy Corbyn’s association with Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness as support for terrorism.

https://t.co/t8q9hJ4vyD

[ronaldo7]

These Tories just don't know when to stop. Here's another one slating the Irish, after the Eurovision song contest. :greengrin

https://t.co/igFql3FeFi

[Mr White]

These Tories just don't know when to stop. Here's another one slating the Irish, after the Eurovision song contest. :greengrin

https://t.co/igFql3FeFi

Saw that earlier on facebook. What a way to let the mask slip eh? Twat.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Employment rights announcement-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/15/general-election-2017-may-workers-rights-corbyn-nhs-politics-live

Interesting stuff.

[Moulin Yarns]

Employment rights announcement-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/15/general-election-2017-may-workers-rights-corbyn-nhs-politics-live

Interesting stuff.

It is looking like the Tories want to be anyone but Tories

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39913881

Let's steal all the 'good' policies from other parties. I look forward to land reform or nationalisation of the railways next :wink:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

There is perhaps a lesson here...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/15/defeat-theresa-may-left-tory-voters-conservative

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It is looking like the Tories want to be anyone but Tories

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39913881

Let's steal all the 'good' policies from other parties. I look forward to land reform or nationalisation of the railways next :wink:

So you like the policies then. Im sure TMay will be delighted she is reaching green voters!

[JeMeSouviens]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9903781/The-history-the-SNP-is-trying-to-forget.html

I'm guessing that with Alan Cochrane's piece on this having been published in the Telegraph there's an anti-SNP slant to it, but as with Wilson's recollections of the 1950s (when I wasn't born) I wasn't old enough to be much aware of the downfall of Callaghan's Labour government. Out of interest, in what way are Labour lying by saying the SNP played a key part in Thatcher's success?

The Labour spin is that the SNP brought down the Labour government and are therefore responsible for 18 years of Thatcherite Tories in power. Ok, there's not absolutely zero truth in that. The insinuation is that the "Tartan Tories" preferred Thatcher to Labour, there is zero truth in that. In truth, the SNP got carried away by their own hubris and believed Scotland would rise up against the injustice of the 1979 aftermath to return dozens of SNP MPs. Hmmm.

Brief summary:

1. Labour was elected in 1974 (with a very small majority) on a manifesto including a promise of a Scottish assembly. Their first attempt to get this through the Commons was effectively killed by their own backbenchers in 1976, despite the government having introduced the idea of holding a referendum which hadn't been in the original policy.
2. But having lost their majority due to by-election defeats, they depended on support from the SNP and/or Liberals, SDLP etc. so they had another go, passing the Scotland act in 1978 which led to the 1979 referendum.
3. Again Labour backbenchers sabotaged the bill by proposing and successfully amending the bill with the "40% rule" that said the act would be repealed if the referendum didn't have 40% of the total electorate voting in favour. Obviously, this was in cahoots with the Tories.
4. Scotland voted 52% Yes (apparently that's now a "decisive margin" btw). The SNP challenged the government to salvage the legislation but it refused so the SNP proposed a motion of no confidence, effectively their bluff having been called.
5. The Tories proposed their own vote of no confidence which was voted on. The government lost by 1 vote.
6. The SNP voted against the government. So did the Libs (ever heard them being accused of being responsible for 18 years of Thatcherism?) The SDLP and an independent Republican abstained.
7. The electorate (remember them) gave the Tories a comfortable majority in May 1979.
8. The electorate (pesky bunch) gave the Tories landslides in 1983 and 1987 and another majority in 1992.
9. The latest Callaghan could have delayed the 1979 election was another 4 months. It is at best extremely doubtful he'd have been able to turn things around.
10. In his memoirs, Callaghan himself blamed his own backbenchers for sabotaging the devolution bill.

[High-On-Hibs]

If Labour hadn't u-turned on their devolution promises, Thatcher may never have happened. It was 100% their fault. The SNP don't have some duty to protect the interests of other parties. I'm glad the SNP didn't support that Labour government. The rest was a consequence of their own treatment of Scotland. A lesson they still haven't learnt.