General Election 2015...

[Moulin Yarns]

Any idea what the final vote count is in Scotland? I need it for a Twitterspat :greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/scotland

2,911,392 votes cast

SNP 1,454,436
Lab 707,147
Con 434,097
L/D 219,675
UKIP 47,078
Green 39,205
TUSC 1,720
Others 7,107

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/scotland

2,911,392 votes cast

SNP 1,454,436
Lab 707,147
Con 434,097
L/D 219,675
UKIP 47,078
Green 39,205
TUSC 1,720
Others 7,107

Cheers for that.

My rant about 2m SNP voters was a tad over the top :greengrin

Bit miffed that UKIP got more than the Greens.

[Moulin Yarns]

Cheers for that.

My rant about 2m SNP voters was a tad over the top :greengrin

Bit miffed that UKIP got more than the Greens.

A very quick PR based on % votes

SNP 30
Lab 14
Con 9
LD 4
UKIP 1
Green 1

[Moulin Yarns]

A very quick PR based on % votes

SNP 30
Lab 14
Con 9
LD 4
UKIP 1
Green 1

Do the same for the UK share of votes and you get something like this

Con 239
Lab 198
UKIP 82
LD 51
SNP 31
Green 25
Others 24

You will notice that the SNP vote and seats is the same (within margins of error)

Con and LD or UKIP make a majority

[CropleyWasGod]

Do the same for the UK share of votes and you get something like this

Con 239
Lab 198
UKIP 82
LD 51
SNP 31
Green 25
Others 24

You will notice that the SNP vote and seats is the same (within margins of error)

Con and LD or UKIP make a majority

Not following that bit.

If their share of the Scottish vote is 50%, and they get 30 seats.....how can they have the same number in UK terms, as their vote share would be less than 10% ?

[BroxburnHibee]

Do the same for the UK share of votes and you get something like this

Con 239
Lab 198
UKIP 82
LD 51
SNP 31
Green 25
Others 24

You will notice that the SNP vote and seats is the same (within margins of error)

Con and LD or UKIP make a majority

And we would probably have had a far more representative government.

FPTP has had its day and this will become a MUCH bigger issue in the coming years.

UKIP could have had 82 seats - there's no way they'll let that lie.

The Scottish system wasn't supposed to allow an outright winner yet it has.

[HiBremian]

Not following that bit.

If their share of the Scottish vote is 50%, and they get 30 seats.....how can they have the same number in UK terms, as their vote share would be less than 10% ?

I guess 50% of 59 seats - 30 - is about the same as 4.5% of 650 seats.

On another note, if the seats won reflected votes caste, I'm certain there would have been a lot more SNP and Labour voters gone to the Greens - me included.

[CropleyWasGod]

I guess 50% of 59 seats - 30 - is about the same as 4.5% of 650 seats.

On another note, if the seats won reflected votes caste, I'm certain there would have been a lot more SNP and Labour voters gone to the Greens - me included.

Of course it is.... it was a long night. :greengrin

And I absolutely agree with your second point. In FTP, people's choices are often polarised between "electable" parties.

[HiBremian]

Of course it is.... it was a long night. :greengrin

And I absolutely agree with your second point. In FTP, people's choices are often polarised betyween "electable" parties.

Glad to be of service, Crops :thumbsup:

[Hibby Bairn]

... whilst simultaneously bringing down the 40% threshold, thus taxing many middle earners (those around £40k pa) more.

True. But I guess that is what redistribution is all about.

[CropleyWasGod]

True. But I guess that is what redistribution is all about.

In part, but the way the Lib Dems constantly spun the line about cutting taxes was exactly that.. spin, and nobody had the wit to challenge it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not following that bit.

If their share of the Scottish vote is 50%, and they get 30 seats.....how can they have the same number in UK terms, as their vote share would be less than 10% ?

UK % is 4.7% of 650 seats which is 30.55 seats.

EDIT: I see it was already answered. Bloody work got in the way.

[EH6 Hibby]

Cheers for that.

My rant about 2m SNP voters was a tad over the top :greengrin

Bit miffed that UKIP got more than the Greens.

The fact that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland is proof that lots of people don't research a parties beliefs and policies before voting. To vote for a party that openly wants to cut your countries budget and believes that your countries mp's shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things is bizzarre in my opinion.

[overdrive]

The fact that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland is proof that lots of people don't research a parties beliefs and policies before voting. To vote for a party that openly wants to cut your countries budget and believes that your countries mp's shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things is bizzarre in my opinion.

To be fair, they shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things.

[CropleyWasGod]

The fact that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland is proof that lots of people don't research a parties beliefs and policies before voting. To vote for a party that openly wants to cut your countries budget and believes that your countries mp's shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things is bizzarre in my opinion.

... like the Tories, you mean? :wink:

[speedy_gonzales]

The fact that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland is proof that lots of people don't research a parties beliefs and policies before voting. To vote for a party that openly wants to cut your countries budget and believes that your countries mp's shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things is bizzarre in my opinion.
TBF, I was nightshift last night and twiddling my thumbs watching the results come in so got one of my colleagues to compete the Telegraph voting survey that I posted a couple of days back on this thread.
He used to be Labour/Socialist all his days until recently turning towards SNP. He completed the survey as honestly as he could, answers were interpreted from the various parties manifestos, ignoring parties & personalities and voting on policies (as it should be?) the survey said he should vote UKIP.
Was funny watching him do it again and again until he got the 'right' answer!

[EH6 Hibby]

To be fair, they shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things.

Why not? The people who are making these decisions that they want to exclude Scottish MP's from voting on, are the people that hold the purse strings. The decisions they make and the money they spend on those decisions directly impact what Scotland has to spend.

Scotland on the other hand are given a budget, and devolved powers on how to spend it.

[EH6 Hibby]

... like the Tories, you mean? :wink:

Do the Tories want to scrap the Barnet formula too? Wouldn't surprise me, I just hadn't heard that during the debates.

The Tories will always have support in the wealthier voters as they're well known for looking after the rich.

I can't think of anything that UKIP have said they would do for Scotland except reduce our budget and powers to vote.

[Geo_1875]

Why not? The people who are making these decisions that they want to exclude Scottish MP's from voting on, are the people that hold the purse strings. The decisions they make and the money they spend on those decisions directly impact what Scotland has to spend.

Scotland on the other hand are given a budget, and devolved powers on how to spend it.

Totally agree. There is no decision made at Westminster that doesn't have an impact on Scotland.

[ballengeich]

Do the same for the UK share of votes and you get something like this

Con 239
Lab 198
UKIP 82
LD 51
SNP 31
Green 25
Others 24

You will notice that the SNP vote and seats is the same (within margins of error)

Con and LD or UKIP make a majority

I would have preferred that. The one thing I didn't want was either of the biggest parties getting an overall majority.

[lucky]

Fantastic result for the SNP, when's the next referendum ? Clearly Scotland has spoke but is anyone going to listen at Westminster with a Tory majority

[ballengeich]

Do the Tories want to scrap the Barnet formula too? Wouldn't surprise me, I just hadn't heard that during the debates.



Wouldn't it be fair to revise the Barnett formula? Why should Scotland have higher public expenditure sustained by it when our income per head is higher than many of the English regions? If you want to redistribute wealth between different parts of the UK using government spending then Wales and Northern England need more, while Scotland and London should have less spent on them.

[DaveF]

Fantastic result for the SNP, when's the next referendum ? Clearly Scotland has spoke but is anyone going to listen at Westminster with a Tory majority

Would anyone have listened at Westminster if labour had held all their Scottish seats?

[JeMeSouviens]

Is Labour really going to stick with Murphy/McTernan/McDougall and ramp up the Blairism for Holyrood 2016?

Seriously? :confused:

[BroxburnHibee]

IMO Cameron cannot ignore what's happened in Scotland. It would be utter folly.

He'll need to deliver on his promises of further devolution or Nicola will quite rightly stick a new referendum in next year's manifesto.

[JeMeSouviens]

Couple of good analysis pieces on C4.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/english-politicians-understand-scotland-snp/9573

http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/labour-failed-win-worse/3671

[marinello59]

IMO Cameron cannot ignore what's happened in Scotland. It would be utter folly.

He'll need to deliver on his promises of further devolution or Nicola will quite rightly stick a new referendum in next year's manifesto.

She won't stick a referendum in until she is sure that the Yes vote will prevail. We are a few years away from that stage. Despite the landslide victory last night we were still split 50-50 on terms of share of the vote.
The depressing reality of what happened last night is now starting to hit me. Another 5 years of Tory rule. That's not down to us thinking differently up here to the rest of the UK. It's down to the total ineptitude of the Labour Party.

[JeMeSouviens]

She won't stick a referendum in until she is sure that the Yes vote will prevail. We are a few years away from that stage. Despite the landslide victory last night we were still split 50-50 on terms of share of the vote.
The depressing reality of what happened last night is now starting to hit me. Another 5 years of Tory rule. That's not down to us thinking differently up here to the rest of the UK. It's down to the total ineptitude of the Labour Party.

Pretty much bang on summary I think. :agree:

The only silver lining is that the political chatter seems to be that at least some Tories (Osborne, Boris) want to go much further than Smith to effectively wash their hands of the troublesome Scots. This will probably go a long way down the fiscal autonomy road but my guess would include some nasty speedbumps (landmines?) left to catch out the SNP. Maximum wariness needed.

[BroxburnHibee]

Personally I think last night has condemned us to another 10 years of the Tories.

I agree about the referendum, but if Dave doesn't deliver that will be all the ammo Nicola will need.

[hibsbollah]

Farage stands down, but might stand again in september

...and since politicians don't work much between May and September, it could be a bit of a 'non' resignation.

what a horrible odious devious little cretin.

[The_Todd]

...and since politicians don't work much between May and September, it could be a bit of a 'non' resignation.

what a horrible odious devious little cretin.

Farage is an MEP though, and they only have a short recess I think. Any chat about him taking a long break and he's conning his constituents. The man is lower than a snake's belly.

[Hibby Bairn]

...and since politicians don't work much between May and September, it could be a bit of a 'non' resignation.

what a horrible odious devious little cretin.

Maybe. But he has gathered 3.5m voters (18%?) who believe in him and his party.

Pretty strong leadership, I would say, whether you like him or not.

[ACLeith]

Maybe. But he has gathered 3.5m voters (18%?) who believe in him and his party.

Pretty strong leadership, I would say, whether you like him or not.

Was considered a dangerous fascist and racist when he was a teenager, nothing changed in the interim. If he does disappear from mainstream politics then can't see UKIP lasting. NF ---> BNP --> UKIP --> whatever they next call themselves.

[Hibrandenburg]

The fact that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland is proof that lots of people don't research a parties beliefs and policies before voting. To vote for a party that openly wants to cut your countries budget and believes that your countries mp's shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things is bizzarre in my opinion.

Now don't go openly implying that some of the electorate are too thick to tie their shoe laces, you'll be chastised by the self righteous brigade :wink:

[Hibs Class]

...and since politicians don't work much between May and September, it could be a bit of a 'non' resignation.

what a horrible odious devious little cretin.

UK politics is rife with people who are horrible, odious, devious and cretins, and the electorate are selective in when they choose to recognise these characteristics. I've seen them in all parties.

[hibsbollah]

Classy statement from Alastair Campbell on QT just now about the SNP. Treat the Scots MP with equal respect, he said.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Classy statement from Alastair Campbell on QT just now about the SNP. Treat the Scots MP with equal respect, he said.



Campbell is the only Labour-related person i've heard today NOT blaming the SNP for Labours failings, the rest appear to be rather bitter

[Peevemor]

Pinched from Facebook :greengrin

"BBC reporter afraid to stand up in case the SNP take his seat"

14840

[McIntosh]

IMO Cameron cannot ignore what's happened in Scotland. It would be utter folly.

He'll need to deliver on his promises of further devolution or Nicola will quite rightly stick a new referendum in next year's manifesto.

You can forget that. The conservative government will not agree to another referendum. They will point to the referendum of seven months ago.

[hibsbollah]

Campbell is the only Labour-related person i've heard today NOT blaming the SNP for Labours failings, the rest appear to be rather bitter

Best, most honest, passionate QT ive ever seen. Swinney Campbell and Pantsdown really inspiring. Real politics for once.

[OsloHibs]

Watching PMQs will require a big bowl of popcorn...

[Hibrandenburg]

Watching PMQs will require a big bowl of popcorn...

And subtitles for a large proportion of the UK. :greengrin

[Mikey09]

Wonder the odds on Mhairi Black jumping over the benches and sticking the heed on Cameron and Osbourne?? :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's not really obvious just now but what has happened in this election only helps the Indy cause. I'm actually thankful that the SNP won't have a coalition with Labour.The Tories will galvanize support for SNP, it's a given. C'mon Dave give us a date for the in/out.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Wonder the odds on Mhairi Black jumping over the benches and sticking the heed on Cameron and Osbourne?? :greengrin

Buckfast in hand.

[Sir David Gray]

I personally don't get it and I'm quite saddened by the result in Scotland but you can't argue with the figures in support of the SNP.

It's quite a staggering turnaround from 2010, to think that around half of the voters in Scotland voted for one single party yesterday. That's a higher share of the vote than Labour received from Scottish voters in any UK General Election in recent years.

Thankfully I'm in the other 50%.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I personally don't get it and I'm quite saddened by the result in Scotland but you can't argue with the figures in support of the SNP.

It's quite a staggering turnaround from 2010, to think that around half of the voters in Scotland voted for one single party yesterday. That's a higher share of the vote than Labour received from Scottish voters in any UK General Election in recent years.

Thankfully I'm in the other 50%.

You must be delighted the Tories held their solitary seat, of which you didn't have a vote for.

[Sir David Gray]

You must be delighted the Tories held their solitary seat, of which you didn't have a vote for.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at to be honest.

What a strange post. :confused:

[Sir David Gray]

Does anyone know what the polls say about how Scottish electorate would vote in an EU referendum?

I can't wait for this to happen.

I can't see anything other than an overwhelming vote to leave the EU.

[lord bunberry]

I can't wait for this to happen.

I can't see anything other than an overwhelming vote to leave the EU.
The last opinion poll I saw was in favour of remaining in the EU.

[Hero76]

Ian Murray must be doing something right.

[Future17]

I can't wait for this to happen.

I can't see anything other than an overwhelming vote to leave the EU.

Do you mean in Scotland or across the UK?

In the past 2 years, I've met lots of people from across the political spectrum and, other than UKIP candidates and campaigners, I haven't met anyone in Scotland who has opposed membership of the EU.

There was obviously support for UKIP on Thursday despite their lack of seats, but nowhere near the level required to seriously mount a successful campaign to leave the EU IMHO.

[ACLeith]

Ian Murray must be doing something right.

His bucking of the nation trend certainly has to be due to something. The LD vote collapsed, but no more than it did across the country. The turnout was just 1% higher. He got 4K more votes then 2010, SNP +13.3K, LD - 13K. So maybe due to higher turnout mainly voting for him. If you didn't know anything about the background you would assume it indicates a good local MP getting an increased personal vote. But when you do know the background, it would seem likely to be down to enough Hearts-supporting non-voters in 2010 backing him.

But, regardless of why he got in, it will be interesting to see how he votes in the next few years. For example, he stated he was strongly against Trident renewal, so will he vote against this alongside the SNP when it inevitably comes up or will he toe the party line?

[Colr]

The fact that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland is proof that lots of people don't research a parties beliefs and policies before voting. To vote for a party that openly wants to cut your countries budget and believes that your countries mp's shouldn't be allowed to vote on certain things is bizzarre in my opinion.

I would say exactly the same about the Greens in the south of England. Most think it's a lifestyle statement akin to keeping your multi- grain artisan loaf visible to impress your wee bourgouise pals rather than the Eco-communinism it actually is.

[Colr]

Wouldn't it be fair to revise the Barnett formula? Why should Scotland have higher public expenditure sustained by it when our income per head is higher than many of the English regions? If you want to redistribute wealth between different parts of the UK using government spending then Wales and Northern England need more, while Scotland and London should have less spent on them.

It should be as part of increased fiscal autonomy. It should be fine if Scotland prefers higher taxes and public spending. Scotland should be completely free to do that if that's what it votes for.

We should be moving to a more federal system with each nation in the UK taking more responsibility for its own affairs including the money pits of Wales and NI.

One of the really great thing about the election result is that ( with the exception of 1 MP) there will be no more Scottish MPs voting on policies which only affect England.

[johnbc70]

While there is a clear novelty factor in having Mhairi Black as an MP not sure I would want an inexperienced 20 yr old as my MP. Obviously lots disagreed with me as she won the vote but her previous and recent comments about No voters being selfish and gullible is not the way to win over the No voters in her constituency and convert them to Yes.

[heretoday]

The last opinion poll I saw was in favour of remaining in the EU.

Correct. The Uk will vote to stay in the EU. The govt don't want to leave, that's for sure. Some Scot Nats seem to think everyone in England is a rabid Ukipper.

[Colr]

While there is a clear novelty factor in having Mhairi Black as an MP not sure I would want an inexperienced 20 yr old as my MP. Obviously lots disagreed with me as she won the vote but her previous and recent comments about No voters being selfish and gullible is not the way to win over the No voters in her constituency and convert them to Yes.

This could be a great break for her but she will have to grow up and mature very quickly or the opportunity may turn into a showcase humiliation by media if she continues with these ill advised outpourings.

If I were her, I'd lay off Twitter in the meantime.

[steakbake]

While there is a clear novelty factor in having Mhairi Black as an MP not sure I would want an inexperienced 20 yr old as my MP. Obviously lots disagreed with me as she won the vote but her previous and recent comments about No voters being selfish and gullible is not the way to win over the No voters in her constituency and convert them to Yes.

What would you want your MP to be experienced in? Being a politician? Making expense claims? Being a SpAD with no real concept of the real world outside of their privilege?

Or someone who is a representative of part of your community? Even 20 something students need represented in parliament. The middle class, mostly male lawyer/politico types are already well represented.

[Just_Jimmy]

While there is a clear novelty factor in having Mhairi Black as an MP not sure I would want an inexperienced 20 yr old as my MP. Obviously lots disagreed with me as she won the vote but her previous and recent comments about No voters being selfish and gullible is not the way to win over the No voters in her constituency and convert them to Yes.

She's also young enough to learn new things. She hasn't been brainwashed by westminster and is stuck in the old ways.

Maybe she'll ruffle some feathers. Good luck to her. Politics needs new faces, new Scottish faces is even better for me.

[johnbc70]

What would you want your MP to be experienced in?

Life.

Good luck to her.

[Colr]

What would you want your MP to be experienced in? Being a politician? Making expense claims? Being a SpAD with no real concept of the real world outside of their privilege?

Or someone who is a representative of part of your community? Even 20 something students need represented in parliament. The middle class, mostly male lawyer/politico types are already well represented.

I agree with that. Only time will tell if she is the right representative.

Politics is a dog fight and pretty nasty business. She will have to learn the skills or it will chew her up and spit her out. She has a great opportunity.

[DaveF]

This could be a great break for her but she will have to grow up and mature very quickly or the opportunity may turn into a showcase humiliation by media if she continues with these ill advised outpourings.

If I were her, I'd lay off Twitter in the meantime.

I'm sure she will, otherwise it will go wrong for her. Imagine if twitter was around when 23 year old Charlie Kennedy was elected with his alcohol issues?

I'm sure Black will be given strong advice on her social media use, as will all MP's.

[stoneyburn hibs]

What would you want your MP to be experienced in? Being a politician? Making expense claims? Being a SpAD with no real concept of the real world outside of their privilege?

Or someone who is a representative of part of your community? Even 20 something students need represented in parliament. The middle class, mostly male lawyer/politico types are already well represented.

Well said, and of course she has 55 new mates to help her along the way.

[Moulin Yarns]

I personally don't get it and I'm quite saddened by the result in Scotland but you can't argue with the figures in support of the SNP.

It's quite a staggering turnaround from 2010, to think that around half of the voters in Scotland voted for one single party yesterday. That's a higher share of the vote than Labour received from Scottish voters in any UK General Election in recent years.

Thankfully I'm in the other 50%.

The last time any single party group won 50% of the votes in Scotland was 60 years ago.

1955





Party
Seats
Seats change
Votes
%
% Change



Conservative (Total)
36

1,273,942
50.1




Unionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionist_Party_(Scotland))
30

1,056,209
41.5




National Liberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberal_Party_(UK,_1931)) & Conservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(United_Kingdom))
6

217,733
8.6




Labour Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK))
34

1,188,058
46.7




Liberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Liberal_Party)
1

47,273
1.9




Communist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Great_Britain)
0
-
13,195
0.5
-



SNP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party)
0
-
12,112
0.5




Other
0
-
8,674
0.3
-


Total
71

2,543,254
100

[DaveF]

I listened to 2 Scottish Labour activists this morning interviewed on the radio. One a young first time voter and the other said he was 35 I think. The younger one was for me, everything that is currently wrong with Labour. She said that 'we have accepted the result and move on, unlike some after the referendum result' and wanted the current leadership to remain. Just the kind of petty digs which put target voters like me right off the Labour party. The other was more left leaning, thought Murphy should go and wanted a conference within the party to analyse the failure and re-asses.

Sadly for Labour, I think the younger ones views prevail in the main. Cannot really see how Labour can possibly win people like me back if that's the track (and tone) they are going to follow.

[lord bunberry]

I listened to 2 Scottish Labour activists this morning interviewed on the radio. One a young first time voter and the other said he was 35 I think. The younger one was for me, everything that is currently wrong with Labour. She said that 'we have accepted the result and move on, unlike some after the referendum result' and wanted the current leadership to remain. Just the kind of petty digs which put target voters like me right off the Labour party. The other was more left leaning, thought Murphy should go and wanted a conference within the party to analyse the failure and re-asses.

Sadly for Labour, I think the younger ones views prevail in the main. Cannot really how Labour can possibly win people like me back if that's the track (and tone) they are going to follow.
I had one of them in the taxi last night telling me it was the SNPs fault that we had another Tory government. After listening to his pish for about 10 mins I told him he should've voted yes last year if he didn't want another Tory government, you reap what you sow.

[marinello59]

While there is a clear novelty factor in having Mhairi Black as an MP not sure I would want an inexperienced 20 yr old as my MP. Obviously lots disagreed with me as she won the vote but her previous and recent comments about No voters being selfish and gullible is not the way to win over the No voters in her constituency and convert them to Yes.

The speech she gave after the result was announced suggests she has already learned. If she had stood in my constituency she would have got my vote.

[McIntosh]

My good lady wife was at a dinner party last night in the north east of England with her colleagues. Her colleague's boyfriend was a rabid SNP supporter who sprounted the usual SNP nonsense that the people in the country should run the country in the country. My wife stated the obvious:Scotland had democratically decided to remain in the United Kingdom. That country, the United Kingdom had elected a new government - that was democracy. She then asked what they ideologically represented. He then verbally tiraded my wife and called her a British nationalist which is comedy cold - she is a black Jamaican. My wife was a bit upset by the bile coming from this man's mouth and called me. Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.

[McIntosh]

For clarity, spare a thought for those in Wales and Northern England. Scotland has a strong parliament which can mitigate some of the worst effects of Tory rule, Our comrades over the border have no such protection. The 56 SNP MP’s will try their best, but they will have a much reduced effect in opposition than they would have in a hung parliament. The SNP are not my party, nor do I feel they represent me or the working classes. Yet in Westminster I wish them well. With so many young and/or inexperienced MPs they will need strong guidance so Alex Salmond will have a vital role to play.


For those in Scotland who celebrate the landslide SNP victory I ask you all to spare a thought for those who very soon will have nothing to celebrate. If you believe in a higher power, then God help us.. And God forgive us for what we (the UK electorate) have consigned the people of the UK to.


Nobody likes the truth.Yet I must impart some truths for the SNP and Scotland. A one party state does not benefit anyone in the long run. As a party it breeds complacency and arrogance. For a nation it ensures that those in power can select the interests in which they choose to represent rather than which they were voted to represent. There must be a genuine alternative to the SNP in Scotland, not based on nationalism and unionism but on issues, policy and class. If the Labour Party is doomed to eternal damnation, then another party must fill that void.

[Hibby Bairn]

For clarity, spare a thought for those in Wales and Northern England. Scotland has a strong parliament which can mitigate some of the worst effects of Tory rule, Our comrades over the border have no such protection. The 56 SNP MP’s will try their best, but they will have a much reduced effect in opposition than they would have in a hung parliament. The SNP are not my party, nor do I feel they represent me or the working classes. Yet in Westminster I wish them well. With so many young and/or inexperienced MPs they will need strong guidance so Alex Salmond will have a vital role to play.


For those in Scotland who celebrate the landslide SNP victory I ask you all to spare a thought for those who very soon will have nothing to celebrate. If you believe in a higher power, then God help us.. And God forgive us for what we (the UK electorate) have consigned the people of the UK to.


Nobody likes the truth.Yet I must impart some truths for the SNP and Scotland. A one party state does not benefit anyone in the long run. As a party it breeds complacency and arrogance. For a nation it ensures that those in power can select the interests in which they choose to represent rather than which they were voted to represent. There must be a genuine alternative to the SNP in Scotland, not based on nationalism and unionism but on issues, policy and class. If the Labour Party is doomed to eternal damnation, then another party must fill that void.



But Labour have dominated in Scotland for decades with little or no opposition. It is only in the past 8 years or so that this has started to change.

As an aside what is the current definition of "working class"? Is this the same as "working people" or something different?

Genuine question...is there actually a definition of "working class" or as Ed M kept referring to, "working people" of this country?

[Moulin Yarns]

Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.

Let me clarify, you are proud that you resorted to violence? And you are not one the oft reported SNP thugs?! Assault is an offence and I assume there were witnesses, you must be worried every time there is a knock on the door.




Nobody likes the truth.Yet I must impart some truths for the SNP and Scotland There must be a genuine alternative to the SNP in Scotland, not based on nationalism and unionism but on issues, policy and class. If the Labour Party is doomed to eternal damnation, then another party must fill that void.



Have you heard of the Scottish Green Party? They could well be a viable opposition next year if the talk around my polling stations and elsewhere are to be believed.

[McIntosh]

Let me clarify, you are proud that you resorted to violence? And you are not one the oft reported SNP thugs?! Assault is an offence and I assume there were witnesses, you must be worried every time there is a knock on the door.

Have you heard of the Scottish Green Party? They could well be a viable opposition next year if the talk around my polling stations and elsewhere are to be believed.

They may well be but the country is deeply divided but the SNP are no solution to the deep issues which Scotland are faced with.

[McIntosh]

But Labour have dominated in Scotland for decades with little or no opposition. It is only in the past 8 years or so that this has started to change.

As an aside what is the current definition of "working class"? Is this the same as "working people" or something different?

Genuine question...is there actually a definition of "working class" or as Ed M kept referring to, "working people" of this country?

That is a very good question I use in its most generic and broadest term.

[McIntosh]

Let me clarify, you are proud that you resorted to violence? And you are not one the oft reported SNP thugs?! Assault is an offence and I assume there were witnesses, you must be worried every time there is a knock on the door.

If anyone, anyone,abuses my wife or my family they would get the exact same treatment. I am not at all worried - this apology for a man got exactly what he deserved. No man abuses a woman to the point of tears. He got exactly what he derserved. Just for the record, if asked i would state he put me in a state of fear.:wink:

I do hope he learns from it but I doubt it. I don't know how you were brought up but there are some things worth fighting for and they definitely include your loved ones. Maybe you are not that kind of human being.

[Moulin Yarns]

if anyone, anyone,abuses my wife or my family they would get the exact same treatment. I am not at all worried - this apology for a man got exactly what he deserved. No man abuses a woman to the point of tears. He got exactly what he derserved. I hope he learns from it but I doubt it. I don't know how you were brought up but there are some things worth fighting for and they definitely include your loved ones. Maybe you are not that kind of human being.


Choices.

An eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek.

As a pacifist I would talk to the person then walk away, that would give them the option to apologise or violence, but it wouldn't be me that sees the red mist, which you appear to have.

I take it you would happily deploy Trident if Russia threatened the Ukraine :wink:

[CapitalGreen]

My good lady wife was at a dinner party last night in the north east of England with her colleagues. Her colleague's boyfriend was a rabid SNP supporter who sprounted the usual SNP nonsense that the people in the country should run the country in the country. My wife stated the obvious:Scotland had democratically decided to remain in the United Kingdom. That country, the United Kingdom had elected a new government - that was democracy. She then asked what they ideologically represented. He then verbally tiraded my wife and called her a British nationalist which is comedy cold - she is a black Jamaican. My wife was a bit upset by the bile coming from this man's mouth and called me. Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.

Cool story bro.





Nobody likes the truth.Yet I must impart some truths for the SNP and Scotland. A one party state does not benefit anyone in the long run. As a party it breeds complacency and arrogance. For a nation it ensures that those in power can select the interests in which they choose to represent rather than which they were voted to represent. There must be a genuine alternative to the SNP in Scotland, not based on nationalism and unionism but on issues, policy and class. If the Labour Party is doomed to eternal damnation, then another party must fill that void.



I think you need to learn what one-party state means. There was a number of alternatives available (8 on my ballot paper). If the electorate chooses not to vote for them, that doesn't indicate a one-party state, that's just democracy.

[speedy_gonzales]

I think you need to learn what one-party state means. There was a number of alternatives available (8 on my ballot paper). If the electorate chooses not to vote for them, that doesn't indicate a one-party state, that's just democracy.

I think in Scotland we have very recently swung over to a one party dominant state where it comes to FPTP elections. Next years Holyrood election with PR may throw up a different result.

[McIntosh]

Choices.

An eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek.

As a pacifist I would talk to the person then walk away, that would give them the option to apologise or violence, but it wouldn't be me that sees the red mist, which you appear to have.

I take it you would happily deploy Trident if Russia threatened the Ukraine :wink:

There was no red mist but a mere surgical strike :greengrin Well Russia has already invaded the Ukraine but if Russia invaded the Baltic States, well Trident would be at a state of readiness. Unfortunately, I don't have your principles but then again I would have happily have killed Hitlter if I could time travel. Sometimes we are defined by our ability and our willingness to take action. It our unwillingness to act decisively that can cause more problems.

[Hibby Bairn]

That is a very good question I use in its most generic and broadest term.

I think Labour still uses this term as well. I don't think it really exists anymore. For me it refers to manual, weekly wage earners of the 60s and 70s. Wage packet after a week down the mines etc.

That is part of Labour's problem. After 'modernising' to appeal to a broader electorate they tend to use old Labour language. And the Tories and SNP fill the gap.

Labour need to appeal to today's broader employed population. Everyone employed earning up to £50,000 a year. They don't seem to stand or offer anything for today's "working class" unless you are very low paid, near minimum wage or on benefits.

Unless they do that they will remain unelectable imo.

[McIntosh]

I think Labour still uses this term as well. I don't think it really exists anymore. For me it refers to manual, weekly wage earners of the 60s and 70s. Wage packet after a week down the mines etc.

That is part of Labour's problem. After 'modernising' to appeal to a broader electorate they tend to use old Labour language. And the Tories and SNP fill the gap.

Labour need to appeal to today's broader employed population. Everyone employed earning up to £50,000 a year. They don't seem to stand or offer anything for today's "working class" unless you are very low paid, near minimum wage or on benefits.

Unless they do that they will remain unelectable imo. you are making very good points - there is no denying that.

[ronaldo7]

Twitteratti saying Neil Findlay has resigned from the Slab "cabinet", with two unions calling for Murphy to resign. Internal war now imminent. Labour call for McIntosh to lead from the front in case surgical strike needed.:wink:

I thought at the time Findlay should have got the gig, and Labour could have got their clothes back.:cb

[ekhibee]

Me too.

When it was Edinburgh Pentlands it was about as safe a Tory seat as you got in Scotland until 1997. Rifkind walked it for years.
I've not lived in Edinburgh for years, but wasn't Michael Ankrum the Tory MP for Edinburgh South a while back?

[McIntosh]

Twitteratti saying Neil Findlay has resigned from the Slab "cabinet", with two unions calling for Murphy to resign. Internal war now imminent. Labour call for McIntosh to lead from the front in case surgical strike needed.:wink:

I thought at the time Findlay should have got the gig, and Labour could have got their clothes back.:cb

Brilliant and laugh out loud. Agree with you analysis.

It is a pity I am not involved in developments at Hibs!!!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Brilliant and laugh out loud. Agree with you analysis.

It is a pity I am not involved in developments at Hibs!!!!

You sound more suited to The CCS! :-)

[degenerated]

Twitteratti saying Neil Findlay has resigned from the Slab "cabinet", with two unions calling for Murphy to resign. Internal war now imminent. Labour call for McIntosh to lead from the front in case surgical strike needed.:wink:

I thought at the time Findlay should have got the gig, and Labour could have got their clothes back.:cb
Does a London party really need a leader in Scotland. :stirrer:

[McIntosh]

You sound more suited to The CCS! :-)

lol :greengrin I was going to say I am to old and fat for that then I remember those still involved with them :greengrin

[Chibs]

My good lady wife was at a dinner party last night in the north east of England with her colleagues. Her colleague's boyfriend was a rabid SNP supporter who sprounted the usual SNP nonsense that the people in the country should run the country in the country. My wife stated the obvious:Scotland had democratically decided to remain in the United Kingdom. That country, the United Kingdom had elected a new government - that was democracy. She then asked what they ideologically represented. He then verbally tiraded my wife and called her a British nationalist which is comedy cold - she is a black Jamaican. My wife was a bit upset by the bile coming from this man's mouth and called me. Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.

I don`t believe a single word of your post.
All I see is a bitter bitter man.

[Purple & Green]

Does a London party really need a leader in Scotland. :stirrer:

I think that's something that needs addressed - it was bizarre seeing Nicola and Leanne Wood in national debates when neither was standing.

And the Scottish debates with msps meps and one ex mp is unusual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Purple & Green]

I've not lived in Edinburgh for years, but wasn't Michael Ankrum the Tory MP for Edinburgh South a while back?

Up until thatcher Edinburgh and the Lothians had several Tory reps. I remember an 80s description of Edinburgh as the last place on earth you'd expect a labour council.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allmodcons]

My good lady wife was at a dinner party last night in the north east of England with her colleagues. Her colleague's boyfriend was a rabid SNP supporter who sprounted the usual SNP nonsense that the people in the country should run the country in the country. My wife stated the obvious:Scotland had democratically decided to remain in the United Kingdom. That country, the United Kingdom had elected a new government - that was democracy. She then asked what they ideologically represented. He then verbally tiraded my wife and called her a British nationalist which is comedy cold - she is a black Jamaican. My wife was a bit upset by the bile coming from this man's mouth and called me. Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.

Sad post. 'If' true you should have kept it to yourself.
Reminds me of the pool table story told by Francis 'Franco' Begbie in Trainspotting.




There was no red mist but a mere surgical strike :greengrin Well Russia has already invaded the Ukraine but if Russia invaded the Baltic States, well Trident would be at a state of readiness. Unfortunately, I don't have your principles but then again I would have happily have killed Hitlter if I could time travel. Sometimes we are defined by our ability and our willingness to take action. It our unwillingness to act decisively that can cause more problems.

More Begbie!

[OsloHibs]

My good lady wife was at a dinner party last night in the north east of England with her colleagues. Her colleague's boyfriend was a rabid SNP supporter who sprounted the usual SNP nonsense that the people in the country should run the country in the country. My wife stated the obvious:Scotland had democratically decided to remain in the United Kingdom. That country, the United Kingdom had elected a new government - that was democracy. She then asked what they ideologically represented. He then verbally tiraded my wife and called her a British nationalist which is comedy cold - she is a black Jamaican. My wife was a bit upset by the bile coming from this man's mouth and called me. Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.

1st rule of dinner parties: NEVER talk politics at the table.

[Moulin Yarns]

#Londonprotest

[DaveF]

#Londonprotest

https://twitter.com/hashtag/londonprotest

Green smoke bombs? Those sect43 bams get everywhere.......

And if that tweet by IDS is genuine, it's funny, but not becoming of a senior politician.

[McIntosh]

I don`t believe a single word of your post.
All I see is a bitter bitter man. You are hilarious - what is there to be bitter about. I don't live in Scotland and have no intention of living there. However, I won't let any weegie prick - he is a lecturer at the University of Strathclyde upset my wife. Suck on that!!!

[McIntosh]

1st rule of dinner parties: NEVER talk politics at the table.
My wife said that very thing!!! 😃

[cabbageandribs1875]

I don`t believe a single word of your post.
All I see is a bitter bitter man.



indeed :agree: that yins always been bitter about scotland for some reason




watch out for the keyboard though http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.11880683.3693/sticker,375x360.png:hilarious scary or whit, best to avoid his advice for sucking

[McIntosh]

indeed :agree: that yins always been bitter about scotland for some reason

Bitter about Scotland? Good God, if not loving the place or crying at the mention of its name - then guilty as charged. Scotland was were I was born it is not my home. My saintly wife could not believe that I have never been to the highlands of Scotland and had zero interest in going there. She made the point that I was only interested interested in leith and the centre of Edinburgh and she was right.

You are funny and I love you use of yin - it is so quaint :wink:

[Chibs]

You are hilarious - what is there to be bitter about.e. I don't live in Scotland and have no intention of living ther However, I won't let any weegie prick - he is a lecturer at the University of Strathclyde upset my wife. Suck on that!!!

I have no problem with you finding me hilarious but then again you won`t find me posting the utter garbage you have come out with.
To quote your own words "I don't live in Scotland and have no intention of living there".
So please please tell me why you post on here

[Mikey09]

My good lady wife was at a dinner party last night in the north east of England with her colleagues. Her colleague's boyfriend was a rabid SNP supporter who sprounted the usual SNP nonsense that the people in the country should run the country in the country. My wife stated the obvious:Scotland had democratically decided to remain in the United Kingdom. That country, the United Kingdom had elected a new government - that was democracy. She then asked what they ideologically represented. He then verbally tiraded my wife and called her a British nationalist which is comedy cold - she is a black Jamaican. My wife was a bit upset by the bile coming from this man's mouth and called me. Well, I can assure you when I met him it was no landslide for the SNP. In this instance it was old Labour on their feet and young SNP on their back. The dinner party funnily enough ended after this.


First bit in bold.... The usual SNP nonsense?! Please elaborate.
Second bit in bold... Wow, what a hero you are... :take that

[Hiber-nation]

Bitter about Scotland? Good God, if not loving the place or crying at the mention of its name - then guilty as charged. Scotland was were I was born it is not my home. My saintly wife could not believe that I have never been to the highlands of Scotland and had zero interest in going there. She made the point that I was only interested interested in leith and the centre of Edinburgh and she was right.

You are funny and I love you use of yin - it is so quaint :wink:

Can't actually believe you're lowering yourself to debating with us mere mortals.

[MyJo]

indeed :agree: that yins always been bitter about scotland for some reason




watch out for the keyboard though http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.11880683.3693/sticker,375x360.png:hilarious scary or whit, best to avoid his advice for sucking

Yet during the referendum he was the one insisting he had more of a right to vote about Scotland's future than anyone who wasn't born in Scotland who has since chosen to live and work here.

[ronaldo7]

Yet during the referendum he was the one insisting he had more of a right to vote about Scotland's future than anyone who wasn't born in Scotland who has since chosen to live and work here.

Here endeth the lesson:aok:

[McIntosh]

First bit in bold.... The usual SNP nonsense?! Please elaborate.
Second bit in bold... Wow, what a hero you are... :take that Well Mikey the usual SNP nonsense which got on my wife's nerves was that the suffering of Scotland was greater than anywhere else. Considering my wife was born and brought up in Jamaica she could talk about real poverty and the need for socialism to change it. Am I proud to have punched that weegie prick in the mouth - for sure. A man that abuses a woman - is no man at all.

[McIntosh]

I have no problem with you finding me hilarious but then again you won`t find me posting the utter garbage you have come out with.
To quote your own words "I don't live in Scotland and have no intention of living there".
So please please tell me why you post on here

I am a Hibs supporter pure and simple. The last time I was in Scotland and I very rarely am was to help the club - that is where my loyalty lies. I am not going to dismiss the country I was born in but it is not my home.

[McIntosh]

Yet during the referendum he was the one insisting he had more of a right to vote about Scotland's future than anyone who wasn't born in Scotland who has since chosen to live and work here.

Think not - I took the view that Scotland was best served by being in the United Kingdom and that was also what the majority of the Scottish people voted for.

[McIntosh]

Here endeth the lesson:aok: if only what was quoted was correct.

[McIntosh]

Can't actually believe you're lowering yourself to debating with us mere mortals.

Missionary work :wink:

[Mikey09]

Well Mikey the usual SNP nonsense which got on my wife's nerves was that the suffering of Scotland was greater than anywhere else. Considering my wife was born and brought up in Jamaica she could talk about real poverty and the need for socialism to change it. Am I proud to have punched that weegie prick in the mouth - for sure. A man that abuses a woman - is no man at all.


Thats not "usual SNP nonsense." You are making out every SNP supporter is some sort of extremist with views like you are quoting. Now that is nonsense. As for you're last bit, you're coming across as a bit of a caveman.... May be your style I suppose.

[McIntosh]

Thats not "usual SNP nonsense." You are making out every SNP supporter is some sort of extremist with views like you are quoting. Now that is nonsense. As for you're last bit, you're coming across as a bit of a caveman.... May be your style I suppose.

I heared it three times in one day and my good lady heared it at this bloody dinner party. I have never mentioned extremism that is you. As for being a caveman, if that means not letting my wife be verbally abused - guilt as charged. I take it you would let someone abuse your wife or your mother? I really don't think so.

[Chibs]

I am a Hibs supporter pure and simple. The last time I was in Scotland and I very rarely am was to help the club - that is where my loyalty lies. I am not going to dismiss the country I was born in but it is not my home.
Hmm ok.
Pray tell me how you were going to help the club exactlly.

[Hibrandenburg]

Can we not let the thread degrade into a troll feeding session. There was some good debate going on until the caped avenger turned up.

[Colr]

I've not lived in Edinburgh for years, but wasn't Michael Ankrum the Tory MP for Edinburgh South a while back?

Until 1987.

Anyone remember the Beast of Eastwood?

[God Petrie]

Well Mikey the usual SNP nonsense which got on my wife's nerves was that the suffering of Scotland was greater than anywhere else. Considering my wife was born and brought up in Jamaica she could talk about real poverty and the need for socialism to change it. Am I proud to have punched that weegie prick in the mouth - for sure. A man that abuses a woman - is no man at all.

What pish. The SNP position is invalid because there are people suffering elsewhere? Are you serious. Maybe next time deal with the intellectual deficit you and your "good lady" seem to be suffering from instead of hooking some boy. I really doubt it even happened mind you.

[Moulin Yarns]

What pish. The SNP position is invalid because there are people suffering elsewhere? Are you serious. Maybe next time deal with the intellectual deficit you and your "good lady" seem to be suffering from instead of hooking some boy. I really doubt it even happened mind you.

As I said earlier, if this happened at a dinner party there would be witnesses, so he faces a possible assault charge, could end up in prison, how will he be Sir Galahad then? Defending the honour of his wench will be very difficult when incarcerated in the Tower.

Not to mention upholding the wonderful tradition of Thuggish Scot. :rolleyes:

[snooky]

As I said earlier, if this happened at a dinner party there would be witnesses, so he faces a possible assault charge, could end up in prison, how will he be Sir Galahad then? Defending the honour of his wench will be very difficult when incarcerated in the Tower.

Not to mention upholding the wonderful tradition of Thuggish Scot. :rolleyes:
And here's me thinking that a McIntosh would protect us from the reign. :wink:

[McIntosh]

Hmm ok.
Pray tell me how you were going to help the club exactlly. look at our board and our announcement on the 11th of December 2014.

[McIntosh]

What pish. The SNP position is invalid because there are people suffering elsewhere? Are you serious. Maybe next time deal with the intellectual deficit you and your "good lady" seem to be suffering from instead of hooking some boy. I really doubt it even happened mind you.

The whole nationalist argument is inward looking, if they are serious why don't they go for full fiscal autonomy?

[degenerated]

The whole nationalist argument is inward looking, if they are serious why don't they go for full fiscal autonomy?
Isn't it the case that the government elected by England is far more isolationist and inward looking.

Your stereotypical view that the SNP is an inward looking nationalist party shows you appear to completely misunderstand both the parties stand point and the views, I suspect, of the 50% of Scots that voted for them.

[McIntosh]

Isn't it the case that the government elected by England is far more isolationist and inward looking.

Your stereotypical view that the SNP is an inward looking nationalist party shows you appear to completely misunderstand both the parties stand point and the views, I suspect, of the 50% of Scots that voted for them.

Your first sentence is totally correct. I think there are a number of political parties have an inward narrative - the Conservative: Middle England (whatever that is) and UKIP - (anti-immigration). The SNP are no different. You are correct 50 percent voted for them but it seems that the country is deeply divided and the rhetoric on all sides is not going to resolve anything.

[Moulin Yarns]

The whole nationalist argument is inward looking, if they are serious why don't they go for full fiscal autonomy?

I think they would if they could, don't you know that Independence would have been FFA and more? But funnily enough, there is a Government sitting less than 10 miles from you that won't allow it.

[McIntosh]

I think they would if they could, don't you know that Independence would have been FFA and more? But funnily enough, there is a Government sitting less than 10 miles from you that won't allow it.

The strange thing is that Osbourne for some reason is now allegedly strongly in favour of it. This may go into the narrative for the North - the northern power house of leeds/Manchester/Liverpool with greater devolution of power. There is a view that this may be a doubled edged sword - raising income tax is never popular and if FFA is not underpinned by the right to borrow with the BAnk of England as the guarantor then the financial arrangement become a lot more complicated.

[God Petrie]

Your first sentence is totally correct. I think there are a number of political parties have an inward narrative - the Conservative: Middle England (whatever that is) and UKIP - (anti-immigration). The SNP are no different. You are correct 50 percent voted for them but it seems that the country is deeply divided and the rhetoric on all sides is not going to resolve anything.

The second time you've used the phrase "deeply divided". Seems like a euphemism for "any political discourse that threatens the status quo".

[Mikey09]

I heared it three times in one day and my good lady heared it at this bloody dinner party. I have never mentioned extremism that is you. As for being a caveman, if that means not letting my wife be verbally abused - guilt as charged. I take it you would let someone abuse your wife or your mother? I really don't think so.


Ive heard Hibs fans shout nonsense at games plenty times... Doesn't make me believe EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE TWATS. If that's your outlook on life then Deary me. If someone was verbally abusing my Mrs at a dinner party I would most likely have them removed or leave with her. No be the big man and smack them in the mouth.... As I said, caveman.

[McIntosh]

The second time you've used the phrase "deeply divided". Seems like a euphemism for "any political discourse that threatens the status quo".
I think it is a mere statement of fact. If the vitriol by both sides is anything to go by the wounds of the referendum run deep.

[McIntosh]

Ive heard Hibs fans shout nonsense at games plenty times... Doesn't make me believe EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE TWATS. If that's your outlook on life then Deary me. If someone was verbally abusing my Mrs at a dinner party I would most likely have them removed or leave with her. No be the big man and smack them in the mouth.... As I said, caveman.

My friend, I was not even at the dinner party, I only came at the end to pick my wife up. Ironically if he hadn't started again when he heard my Scottish accent - it would not have had the outcomes it did.

For or the record, I don't think the SNP are twats anything but. However to continually hear an isolationist narrative repeated is to me rubbish - it is the exact opposite to what I believe.

[Moulin Yarns]

Your first sentence is totally correct. I think there are a number of political parties have an inward narrative - the Conservative: Middle England (whatever that is) and UKIP - (anti-immigration). The SNP are no different. You are correct 50 percent voted for them but it seems that the country is deeply divided and the rhetoric on all sides is not going to resolve anything.


The second time you've used the phrase "deeply divided". Seems like a euphemism for "any political discourse that threatens the status quo".


The question is, which is more deeply divided, a population where 50% elected 95% of the MPs or a population where 36.9% of the population elected 51% of the MPs?

Of course, neither is right, and earlier I gave a proportional view of how the Parliament should look.

UKIP had 3.8 million votes and got 1 seat, the SDLP got 100,000 votes and has 3 seats. How is any of that fair. We will continue to be deeply divided until the Westminster electoral system is fair.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think it is a mere statement of fact. If the vitriol by both sides is anything to go by the wounds of the referendum run deep.


My friend, I was not even at the dinner party, I only came at the end to pick my wife up. Ironically if he hadn't started again when he heard my Scottish accent - it would not have had the outcomes it did.

For or the record, I don't think the SNP are twats anything but. However to continually hear an isolationist narrative repeated is to me rubbish - it is the exact opposite to what I believe.


Ah, the old blame the referendum argument, funny how I haven't seen anything of the deep wounds which must be evident in Wimbledon.

At least you are now admitting it was your fault. If you had kept your gob shut you he wouldn't have forced you to deck him.

The only isolationist here appears to be yourself. You want to argue with everyone on here.

[McIntosh]

Ah, the old blame the referendum argument, funny how I haven't seen anything of the deep wounds which must be evident in Wimbledon.

At least you are now admitting it was your fault. If you had kept your gob shut you he wouldn't have forced you to deck him.

The only isolationist here appears to be yourself. You want to argue with everyone on here.

Wimbledon is lovely my friend maybe not as sunny as Perth but definitely a lot more intereting :wink: As for fault, my only fault was not doing it with one punch. As for arguing with everyone I don't know about that but I definitely will argue with you because that is easy.

[lord bunberry]

I think it is a mere statement of fact. If the vitriol by both sides is anything to go by the wounds of the referendum run deep.
The vitriol you speak off is from a tiny minority on the fringe of both sides. The vast majority of us had a refreshing debate which led to tens of thousands of Scottish people engaging with politics for the first time. You only have to look at the turnout in Scotland to see that.

[Hibrandenburg]

As for fault, my only fault was not doing it with one punch.

So it was more of a bludgeoning rather than a surgical strike?

[ronaldo7]

So it was more of a bludgeoning rather than a surgical strike?

He must have been punch drunk last night. Surgical strike or more than one punch......You decide......Fact or Fiction

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?300618-BBC-bias-again&p=4369406&viewfull=1#post4369406

Yes, violent protesting and damage to property means they’re probably lower than low-life. Not all of them are fighting and causing damage, but it’s their intent as a group for it to escalate to that.


I live in London and see this sort of trouble quite regularly and I’ve got no time for it or the people who revel in it.

Sums up the poster McIntosh to a T IMHO

[McIntosh]

So it was more of a bludgeoning rather than a surgical strike? I am getting old :wink:

[McIntosh]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?300618-BBC-bias-again&p=4369406&viewfull=1#post4369406

Yes, violent protesting and damage to property means they’re probably lower than low-life. Not all of them are fighting and causing damage, but it’s their intent as a group for it to escalate to that.


I live in London and see this sort of trouble quite regularly and I’ve got no time for it or the people who revel in it.

Sums up the poster McIntosh to a T IMHO

You always cheer me up. You really do. You are not my enemy. I have the image of you as an old hippy pushing 60, a bit of a tree hugger, strong on non-violence which is all great. However, if my family are attacked I will defend them - no inconsistency there. Remember, the reasonable man or woman adapts themselnes to the world - by goodness you are very reasonable. the unreasonable persists in trying to adapt the world to themselves. All progress depends on the unreasonable man or woman. We just have different world views which is cool.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Balls emptied.

Best post of the thread :-D

Great headline for a paper

[Moulin Yarns]

You always cheer me up. You really do. You are not my enemy. I have the image of you as an old hippy pushing 60, a bit of a tree hugger, strong on non-violence which is all great. However, if my family are attacked I will defend them - no inconsistency there. Remember, the reasonable man or woman adapts themselnes to the world - by goodness you are very reasonable. the unreasonable persists in trying to adapt the world to themselves. All progress depends on the unreasonable man or woman. We just have different world views which is cool.


However, by your own account nobody attacked your family, someone said things you disagreed with and you resorted to violence, which nobody can condone. You sound like a typical bully.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Best post of the thread :-D

Great headline for a paper

It was to good to resist.

[Future17]

George Galloway challenging the election result in the constituency which he lost.

I'm beginning to think he's not 100% mentally sound.

[Keith_M]

George Galloway challenging the election result in the constituency which he lost.

I'm beginning to think he's not 100% mentally sound.


You're a bit late to the party


:wink:

[The_Todd]

George Galloway challenging the election result in the constituency which he lost.

I'm beginning to think he's not 100% mentally sound.

He's also saying the fact Farage didn't win his seat is "suspicious".

Oh dear.

[JeMeSouviens]

Quality write up of Slimebucket's campaign:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/scottish-labour-inside-the-campaign-from-hell.125560928

This was the guy the SNP were meant to be scared of? :greengrin

Remember how he said he wouldn't lose a single seat (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/14/snp-scottish-labour-murphy-poll) to the SNP?

Turns out it was Edinburgh South. :faf:

[EH6 Hibby]

Farage staying on as UKIP leader after party reject his resignation according to BBC.

[steakbake]

Farage staying on as UKIP leader after party reject his resignation according to BBC.

A one-man band.

[Hibbyradge]

Farage staying on as UKIP leader after party reject his resignation according to BBC.

That's a pity.

I genuinely thought UKIP was dead after he lost.

Another 5 years of his racist slavering ahead.

[Bristolhibby]

Farage staying on as UKIP leader after party reject his resignation according to BBC.

How can you reject somones resignation? That says to me he always wanted to stay and he's been persuaded?

J

[Hibernia&Alba]

That's a pity.

I genuinely thought UKIP was dead after he lost.

Another 5 years of his racist slavering ahead.

Spot on, and much more so, with the EU referendum ahead.

[EH6 Hibby]

How can you reject somones resignation? That says to me he always wanted to stay and he's been persuaded?

J

My opinion was he's the only one that can be trusted to speak on behalf of the party without descending into racist, bigoted nonsense, and even he struggles with that. It's probably all just been for show, so he can say I tried but they wouldn't let me go.

[snooky]

A one-man band.

One-man banned? :wink:

[johnbc70]

That's a pity.

I genuinely thought UKIP was dead after he lost.

Another 5 years of his racist slavering ahead.

Dead? After getting over 3 million votes? Afraid they will be around for a while yet.

[Pretty Boy]

Interesting to see the comments coming from senior Labour figures in the past few days seem to suggest a lurch to the right as opposed to the left.

I wonder if there's any chance of serious talks regarding a breakaway party in Scotland. They must realise that isn't going to sit well up here, or in much of Northern England and Wales for that matter. Every policy aimed at the 'aspirational' voter is another slap in the face to those in the heartlands

[steakbake]

That's a pity.

I genuinely thought UKIP was dead after he lost.

Another 5 years of his racist slavering ahead.

I don't think Farage is a racist necessarily. All over Europe there are curious right wing parties popping up, mostly to do with an anti-EU, anti-immigration agenda. Compare Farage to the likes of them and he's just an eccentric curiosity who speaks up for the kind of people who live in fear of the non existent PC Brigade and who feel they "cant say racist things no more". People who read the fear stories in the Daily Mail and stare bleakly out the window wishing it was the 1950s again.

[JeMeSouviens]

I don't think UKIP are generally racist in the neo-fascist racial purity sense. They are essentially an alliance of hard line eurosceptics and the people the Tory party's (limited) modernisation left behind. They harbour a residue of the casual racism that was endemic 30 years ago.

[Big Ed]

Interesting to see the comments coming from senior Labour figures in the past few days seem to suggest a lurch to the right as opposed to the left.

I wonder if there's any chance of serious talks regarding a breakaway party in Scotland. They must realise that isn't going to sit well up here, or in much of Northern England and Wales for that matter. Every policy aimed at the 'aspirational' voter is another slap in the face to those in the heartlands

I happened to catch Tristran Hunt on the telly on Sunday, saying something about people being "aspirational" and "wanting to shop in John Lewis and Waitrose"...

Well keep it up Tristran because that's 40 seats in Scotland that you're never winning back.

And then there's Tony Blair: "return to the centre ground to win again".

I feel like I've just arrived back from Rip van Winkle's house, because if Labour were ever lurching to the left in the last twenty years, I must have dozed off and missed it.

I honestly don't think the Parliamentary Labour Party know what they are supposed to stand for and a quick deek at the candidates for their new leader, should tell you that a warmed up Blairite is going to be waving their arms impotently at a Prime Minister with a fragile majority and a pack of ravenous right wing loony backbenchers to appease.

It's not a comforting prognosis.

[Keith_M]

I don't think Farage is a racist necessarily. All over Europe there are curious right wing parties popping up, mostly to do with an anti-EU, anti-immigration agenda. Compare Farage to the likes of them and he's just an eccentric curiosity who speaks up for the kind of people who live in fear of the non existent PC Brigade and who feel they "cant say racist things no more". People who read the fear stories in the Daily Mail and stare bleakly out the window wishing it was the 1950s again.


Wouldn't it have been simpler just to say "He appeals to the Alf Garnetts of the world"?




:wink:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Apparently twenty thousand people across the UK have joined the Labour Party since the election. Many, many people are worried about where another five years of the Tories will leave the country.

[Moulin Yarns]

who wants a chuckle?

https://twitter.com/50ShadesOfTory

[JimBHibees]

I don't think Farage is a racist necessarily. All over Europe there are curious right wing parties popping up, mostly to do with an anti-EU, anti-immigration agenda. Compare Farage to the likes of them and he's just an eccentric curiosity who speaks up for the kind of people who live in fear of the non existent PC Brigade and who feel they "cant say racist things no more". People who read the fear stories in the Daily Mail and stare bleakly out the window wishing it was the 1950s again.

Aint that the truth. :greengrin

[johnbc70]

Apparently twenty thousand people across the UK have joined the Labour Party since the election. Many, many people are worried about where another five years of the Tories will leave the country.

Many, many people are also quite happy to have a Tory government and for them to see where they take us over the next 5 years as they got more votes than anyone else.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Many, many people are also quite happy to have a Tory government and for them to see where they take us over the next 5 years as they got more votes than anyone else.

Absolutely, many people are happy to have the Tories back. Not many here in Scotland, but many in England. However, the fact that five thousand people per day have joined Labour since the Tories got back in, shows that there is an appetite to fight this government, as of course will the SNP.

As for where the Tories will take us over the next five years, it will be an acceleration of the policies of the previous five, now the Lib Dems aren't around to moderate them. £12 billion of (as yet unspecified) welfare cuts to come, plus £25 billion of other cuts. Taxes that benefit those at the top of the income scale will be cut. What's left of public provision will be up for privatization. The number of foodbanks will continue to rise, as welfare cuts bite and casual jobs become more common. We will also have the EU referendum, and may withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights regardless. There will be infringements upon civil liberties, as Teresa May has indicated, via increased surveillance of private correspondence. These will be the fundamentals.

Conclusion - Wealth divide to grow. Five more years where the UK is a great place to be rich and strong but an increasingly hard place to be poor and weak.

[Future17]

Interesting to see the comments coming from senior Labour figures in the past few days seem to suggest a lurch to the right as opposed to the left.

I wonder if there's any chance of serious talks regarding a breakaway party in Scotland. They must realise that isn't going to sit well up here, or in much of Northern England and Wales for that matter. Every policy aimed at the 'aspirational' voter is another slap in the face to those in the heartlands

A couple of Labour MSPs are now calling for Murphy to quit. Found this part of Brian Taylor's analysis quite amusing:

"Among Labour at Holyrood, there are as many views about the future of the party as there are group members. By contrast, the Scottish Labour group at Westminster is entirely united." :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

A couple of Labour MSPs are now calling for Murphy to quit. Found this part of Brian Taylor's analysis quite amusing:

"Among Labour at Holyrood, there are as many views about the future of the party as there are group members. By contrast, the Scottish Labour group at Westminster is entirely united." :greengrin

Aye, and entirely Yam

[Hibby Bairn]

Absolutely, many people are happy to have the Tories back. Not many here in Scotland, but many in England. However, the fact that five thousand people per day have joined Labour since the Tories got back in, shows that there is an appetite to fight this government, as of course will the SNP.

As for where the Tories will take us over the next five years, it will be an acceleration of the policies of the previous five, now the Lib Dems aren't around to moderate them. £12 billion of (as yet unspecified) welfare cuts to come, plus £25 billion of other cuts. Taxes that benefit those at the top of the income scale will be cut. What's left of public provision will be up for privatization. The number of foodbanks will continue to rise, as welfare cuts bite and casual jobs become more common. We will also have the EU referendum, and may withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights regardless. There will be infringements upon civil liberties, as Teresa May has indicated, via increased surveillance of private correspondence. These will be the fundamentals.

Conclusion - Wealth divide to grow. Five more years where the UK is a great place to be rich and strong but an increasingly hard place to be poor and weak.

434,000 voted Tory in Scotland, which is quite a lot. Roughly a third of those that voted SNP.

BTW what happens if you are neither "rich and strong" nor "poor and weak"? How will they get on?

[johnbc70]

434,000 voted Tory in Scotland, which is quite a lot. Roughly a third of those that voted SNP.

BTW what happens if you are neither "rich and strong" nor "poor and weak"? How will they get on?

Yes, it seems in this country some people seem to think your either filthy rich and living the high life or visiting the foodbanks every day. The vast majority are neither of course and want to be rewarded for working hard and getting on, I think the Torys appealed to this group which is the biggest group in the country. All over social media people are sharing open letters about doom and gloom of another 5 years of Tory rule and how bad its going to be, well people must think they are doing something right to get so many votes and a majority.

[Colr]

Interesting to see the comments coming from senior Labour figures in the past few days seem to suggest a lurch to the right as opposed to the left.

I wonder if there's any chance of serious talks regarding a breakaway party in Scotland. They must realise that isn't going to sit well up here, or in much of Northern England and Wales for that matter. Every policy aimed at the 'aspirational' voter is another slap in the face to those in the heartlands

Do people in the heartlands not have aspirations? I suppose they have to stay in their place like the good little vote fodder they are for the politico elite of the Labour party and wait for the hand outs they dyne to pass down to them.

[Hibernia&Alba]

434,000 voted Tory in Scotland, which is quite a lot. Roughly a third of those that voted SNP.

BTW what happens if you are neither "rich and strong" nor "poor and weak"? How will they get on?

The 'middling' will be squeezed, only not quite to much as the poor.

According to the Institute Of Fiscal Studies, the poorest ten per cent of the population has lost the highest proportion of their income between 2010 and 2015. The man and woman earning the national average salary is £430 per year worse off. Wages increased one month in the five years of the last parliament. Meanwhile higher rate income tax payers were given a tax cut. On a sliding scale of income, the lower down you are, the harder it has been, and the harder it will certainly get. Our society is becoming ever more unequal, sadly.

As for the 434,000 votes the Tories received in Scotland, that's 14.9% of the Scottish vote for the party which now has 100% of government power.

[The Harp Awakes]

434,000 voted Tory in Scotland, which is quite a lot. Roughly a third of those that voted SNP.

BTW what happens if you are neither "rich and strong" nor "poor and weak"? How will they get on?

For a Party with a UK majority, the Conservatives took 1 seat and 14.9% of the vote in Scotland last Thursday.The SNP took 56 of the 59 seats and 50% of the vote. That's hardly a ringing endorsement from the Scottish electorate for the Tory Government's right wing austerity policies being implemented in Scotland.

Never has the political landscape between Scotland and England been so polarised. IMO this set up is unsustainable and will inevitably lead to an independent Scotland sooner rather than later.

[Mikey09]

Numbers and stats can be twisted or spun to favour anyone's argument.... Just ask George Osbourne about that!! He's the master of it. Pleb. :greengrin

[--------]

I happened to catch Tristran Hunt on the telly on Sunday, saying something about people being "aspirational" and "wanting to shop in John Lewis and Waitrose"...

Well keep it up Tristran because that's 40 seats in Scotland that you're never winning back.

And then there's Tony Blair: "return to the centre ground to win again".

I feel like I've just arrived back from Rip van Winkle's house, because if Labour were ever lurching to the left in the last twenty years, I must have dozed off and missed it.

I honestly don't think the Parliamentary Labour Party know what they are supposed to stand for and a quick deek at the candidates for their new leader, should tell you that a warmed up Blairite is going to be waving their arms impotently at a Prime Minister with a fragile majority and a pack of ravenous right wing loony backbenchers to appease.

It's not a comforting prognosis.

It's been patently obvious that New Labour haven't had a clue about what and who they're supposed to be representing for a very long time now - at least since they elected Tony Bliar as leader way back in 1994. It's not encouraging for the political party that's allegedly the main opposition to a newly-elected government when the media start a list of candidates for the leadership and the majority of the electorate are left scratching their heads and wondering who on earth these people are?

Further public humiliation for New Labour really doesn't trouble me - no more than the horrible fate that befell the Lib Dems does, anyway.

I see at least one New Lab luvvie wasted no time in reviving the ScotNazi jibe ...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/actress-sparks-fury-with-nazi-snp-comparison.125588866

One of the last things she was in was something called 'Psychobitches'. (That's not a comment on her personality - just information.)

Some people really should sober up before they go on the social media.

And finally -

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/snp-election-landslide-proves-referendum-result-was-rigged-claims-russ.125642897

Rigged referendum result? He should know.

[Pretty Boy]

Do people in the heartlands not have aspirations? I suppose they have to stay in their place like the good little vote fodder they are for the politico elite of the Labour party and wait for the hand outs they dyne to pass down to them.

The term 'aspirational voter' is just another political buzzword/phrase. It seems to be this incarnation of the Labour parties version of the famed 'mondeo man'.

I said it pre election and I stand by it now, listening to Labour politicians, activists and supporters was and is often like a throwback to the 70s. The 'working class' as they existed then no longer exist. Many in the heartlands of course have their own aspirations, that's not what Labour mean though, what they really mean is they want to target traditional Tory voters with policy that appease them. The old political loyalties are dying out and Labour needs to start by engaging their traditional voter Base before targetting anyone else, this isn't 1997 where the support of the usual was guaranteed and it was only the 'middle class' they had to target, number one priority should be getting lapsed support back onside.

[Keith_M]

BTW what happens if you are neither "rich and strong" nor "poor and weak"? How will they get on?


That describes me and I voted SNP.

I couldn't bring myself to vote for a party that doesn't care about the 'poor and weak' and appears to only cater to the more comfortable.

If I lose a few quid off my wage packet to help take care of the less well off, then so be it.

[--------]

434,000 voted Tory in Scotland, which is quite a lot. Roughly a third of those that voted SNP.

BTW what happens if you are neither "rich and strong" nor "poor and weak"? How will they get on?


If you own the roof over your head, own a car - any car, and have food in the larder, easy access to clean water and money in your bank account, you're in the richest 8% of the world's population, you know.

Everything's relative.

[snooky]

A whole new take on the slogan "Better Together"

https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-gove...-join-scotland

[Mikey09]

If you own the roof over your head, own a car - any car, and have food in the larder, easy access to clean water and money in your bank account, you're in the richest 8% of the world's population, you know.

Everything's relative.


YA BEAUTY DODDIE!!! We have a car... And have just been for the weekly shop!! We live in a council house though but there is a wee burn that runs round North Berwick law for clean water and we still have 3quid in the bank!!! So just need to get my own hoose and I'm a rich man!!! :woohoo:

[snooky]

YA BEAUTY DODDIE!!! We have a car... And have just been for the weekly shop!! We live in a council house though but there is a wee burn that runs round North Berwick law for clean water and we still have 3quid in the bank!!! So just need to get my own hoose and I'm a rich man!!! :woohoo:

Zat you Gaz? :wink:

[Mikey09]

Zat you Gaz? :wink:


:faf::faf::faf:

Afraid not...

[Future17]

A whole new take on the slogan "Better Together"

https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-gove...-join-scotland

Link not working.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-32736153


Thousands of people in the North of England have been using the hashtag "take us with you Scotland" to express their upset about the result of last week's general election, and the Scottish nationalists are welcoming this English minority with open arms.



they know it makes sense :wink:

[snooky]

Link not working.
(Oops. Try this - similar report.)

Man U & City could be joining SPL :wink:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/were-moving-scotland-manchester-votes-9254231

[Godsahibby]

If you own the roof over your head, own a car - any car, and have food in the larder, easy access to clean water and money in your bank account, you're in the richest 8% of the world's population, you know.

Everything's relative.

Or according to QI the amount of money and assets needed to out you in the top 50% of the worlds wealthiest people is just £2400.

[Colr]

It's been patently obvious that New Labour haven't had a clue about what and who they're supposed to be representing for a very long time now - at least since they elected Tony Bliar as leader way back in 1994. It's not encouraging for the political party that's allegedly the main opposition to a newly-elected government when the media start a list of candidates for the leadership and the majority of the electorate are left scratching their heads and wondering who on earth these people are?

Further public humiliation for New Labour really doesn't trouble me - no more than the horrible fate that befell the Lib Dems does, anyway.

I see at least one New Lab luvvie wasted no time in reviving the ScotNazi jibe ...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/actress-sparks-fury-with-nazi-snp-comparison.125588866

One of the last things she was in was something called 'Psychobitches'. (That's not a comment on her personality - just information.)

Some people really should sober up before they go on the social media.

And finally -

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/snp-election-landslide-proves-referendum-result-was-rigged-claims-russ.125642897

Rigged referendum result? He should know.

I liked Blair. The 97-02 government was the best I can recall.

[Colr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-32736153


Thousands of people in the North of England have been using the hashtag "take us with you Scotland" to express their upset about the result of last week's general election, and the Scottish nationalists are welcoming this English minority with open arms.



they know it makes sense :wink:

Though judging from the strength of the Tory and no vote in the borders it could be a land swap.

[Colr]

That describes me and I voted SNP.

I couldn't bring myself to vote for a party that doesn't care about the 'poor and weak' and appears to only cater to the more comfortable.

If I lose a few quid off my wage packet to help take care of the less well off, then so be it.

Just donate a few quid instead. Its much more efficient than employing a load of civil servants to do it for you

[Future17]

I liked Blair. The 97-02 government was the best I can recall.


Though judging from the strength of the Tory and no vote in the borders it could be a land swap.


Just donate a few quid instead. Its much more efficient than employing a load of civil servants to do it for you

:fishin::troll:

[Colr]

:fishin::troll:

Watch out little billy goat!

[snooky]

Absolutely, many people are happy to have the Tories back. Not many here in Scotland, but many in England. However, the fact that five thousand people per day have joined Labour since the Tories got back in, shows that there is an appetite to fight this government, as of course will the SNP.

As for where the Tories will take us over the next five years, it will be an acceleration of the policies of the previous five, now the Lib Dems aren't around to moderate them. £12 billion of (as yet unspecified) welfare cuts to come, plus £25 billion of other cuts. Taxes that benefit those at the top of the income scale will be cut. What's left of public provision will be up for privatization. The number of foodbanks will continue to rise, as welfare cuts bite and casual jobs become more common. We will also have the EU referendum, and may withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights regardless. There will be infringements upon civil liberties, as Teresa May has indicated, via increased surveillance of private correspondence. These will be the fundamentals.

Conclusion - Wealth divide to grow. Five more years where the UK is a great place to be rich and strong but an increasingly hard place to be poor and weak.

And also a harder place to show any opposition to their policies which is even more worrying.

[Peevemor]

Another good piece

http://www.commentisntfree.com/things-have-changed/

[Future17]

Watch out little billy goat!

:greengrin

[Future17]

Another good piece

http://www.commentisntfree.com/things-have-changed/

That's an interesting read and there are, no doubt, interesting times ahead.

I heard the other day that Scottish questions (or whatever it is called) at Westminster consists of a weekly session where the Shadow Scottish Secretary asks the Scottish Secretary 6 questions.

So basically, once a week, there will be 59 active MPs on the benches to listen to Ian Murray, Scotland's sole Labour MP, ask questions of David Mundell, Scotland's sole Tory MP, while 56 SNP MPs watch on. Oh and Alistair Carmichael might turn up as well...

[Mikey09]

Reports now that Cameron has appointed Andrew Dunlop a Scotland Office Minister! He was made a Lord yesterday and put in the Scotland Office as deputy to scots secretary David Mundell. Dunlop will help rule Scotland despite NEVER having stood for election here. I don't know how to link so if someone could please do. Is Cameron trying to wind folk up here? If he is he's making a ****ing good job of it.

[degenerated]

Reports now that Cameron has appointed Andrew Dunlop a Scotland Office Minister! He was made a Lord yesterday and put in the Scotland Office as deputy to scots secretary David Mundell. Dunlop will help rule Scotland despite NEVER having stood for election here. I don't know how to link so if someone could please do. Is Cameron trying to wind folk up here? If he is he's making a ****ing good job of it.
Dunlop was one of Thatchers advisors who thought the poll tax was so good that Scotland should get it first.

[Mikey09]

Dunlop was one of Thatchers advisors who thought the poll tax was so good that Scotland should get it first.


Excellent news!! That'll go down an absolute treat eh?! Cameron is the political pricks prick.

[lucky]

Tomorrow will hopefully see the demise of Murphy and Scotland move forward

[Peevemor]

Tomorrow will hopefully see the demise of Murphy and Scotland move forward

I certainly hope not! :greengrin

[degenerated]

Tomorrow will hopefully see the demise of Murphy and Scotland move forward
I really hope he hangs on.


Even if there is a vote of no confidence he'll need to be dragged out his office kicking and screaming before he goes. I'd envisage a scene like that at the end of Happy Gilmore where the boy nicks the yellow jacket and runs off with it. [emoji1]

[lord bunberry]

I can't wait for Scottish question time at Westminster, I'm an MP facing I'm the dullest man in history who couldn't even get the big gig despite being his party's only representative in his country facing up to each other with 56 angry faces behind them.

[steakbake]

Tomorrow will hopefully see the demise of Murphy and Scotland move forward

Hopefully, but do you see it happening? The guy is vanity personified.

[snooky]

Hopefully, but do you see it happening? The guy is vanity personified.

Ivanity the Terrible?

[Colr]

Dunlop was one of Thatchers advisors who thought the poll tax was so good that Scotland should get it first.

That's the way it seemed but its not what happened. Michael Forsyth asked for them to bring the poll tax in early in Scotland so they could avoid paying for a planned revaluation. Not his smartest move as it turned out.

[marinello59]

Tomorrow will hopefully see the demise of Murphy and Scotland move forward

Let's hope so. Scotland needs a party capable of providing a genuine contest for the Holyrood elections. Labour never really got to grips with devolution despite being the party who gave us it. It's time for them to embrace it fully or stay in the doldrums.

[Future17]

I can't wait for Scottish question time at Westminster, I'm an MP facing I'm the dullest man in history who couldn't even get the big gig despite being his party's only representative in his country facing up to each other with 56 angry faces behind them.

What are you classing as "the big gig"?

[RyeSloan]

That's the way it seemed but its not what happened. Michael Forsyth asked for them to bring the poll tax in early in Scotland so they could avoid paying for a planned revaluation. Not his smartest move as it turned out.

Correct, the urban myth if the Tories 'testing' the poll tax on the Scots is exactly that. It was introduced early in an attempt to prevent (another ) outrage at the scheduled rate re-evaluation. Sure that rate outrage would most defo have been coming from largely Tory voters so the move to poll tax early was driven by political
considerations of course. As it turns out this political manoeuvring turned out to be a classic case of frying pan to hells blazing inferno....

[lord bunberry]

What are you classing as "the big gig"?
Secretary of State for Scotland

[johnbc70]

Correct, the urban myth if the Tories 'testing' the poll tax on the Scots is exactly that. It was introduced early in an attempt to prevent (another ) outrage at the scheduled rate re-evaluation. Sure that rate outrage would most defo have been coming from largely Tory voters so the move to poll tax early was driven by political
considerations of course. As it turns out this political manoeuvring turned out to be a classic case of frying pan to hells blazing inferno....

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[Colr]

Correct, the urban myth if the Tories 'testing' the poll tax on the Scots is exactly that. It was introduced early in an attempt to prevent (another ) outrage at the scheduled rate re-evaluation. Sure that rate outrage would most defo have been coming from largely Tory voters so the move to poll tax early was driven by political
considerations of course. As it turns out this political manoeuvring turned out to be a classic case of frying pan to hells blazing inferno....

Not exactly a PR triumph.

[PeeJay]

Reports now that Cameron has appointed Andrew Dunlop a Scotland Office Minister! He was made a Lord yesterday and put in the Scotland Office as deputy to scots secretary David Mundell. Dunlop will help rule Scotland despite NEVER having stood for election here. I don't know how to link so if someone could please do. Is Cameron trying to wind folk up here? If he is he's making a ****ing good job of it.

Lord Dunlop's undersecretary post is pretty "irrelevant" isn't it? Most of the power in the office has long since been transferred during the course of devolution to the regional parliament in Edinburgh. Scotland's First Minister did not stand for Westminster election either, yet she is apparently in charge of the 56 seat SNP parliamentary party sitting there: what mandate has she for doing so? Why is Dunlop's appointment "wrong" - or a "wind-up" as you claim - yet Sturgeon's role is seemingly OK? Am I missing something here?

[ronaldo7]

On the grapevine that Creepy Jim has resigned. Hopefully not:greengrin

He might have survived the vote of no confidence. Well done the Blairites:wink:

Looks like he might be staying, won by 3 votes. Here are some SNP peeps outside the meeting.

14874

[degenerated]

On the grapevine that Creepy Jim has resigned. Hopefully not:greengrin

He might have survived the vote of no confidence. Well done the Blairites:wink:

Looks like he might be staying. Here are some SNP peeps outside the meeting.

14874
He has survived, winning by three votes.

Fantastic news for the SNP 😁

[ronaldo7]

He has survived, winning by three votes.

Fantastic news for the SNP 

But he's now saying he's leaving. What the fecks going on:greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

murphy to resign next month





got a job offer at the irn bru bottling plant me thinks

[snooky]

murphy to resign next month
got a job offer at the irn bru bottling plant me thinks


He promised to crate jobs did he not?

[lucky]

Murphy survived by bringing Baroness Meta Ramsay ex Cheif MI6 as a member representing the westminister PLP, he also voted for himself and the Chair voted. But at least he's gone.

[marinello59]

But he's now saying he's leaving. What the fecks going on:greengrin

Looks like his arrogance has kept him going until the end and now he can say he left on his own terms.

[JeMeSouviens]

Murphy survived by bringing Baroness Meta Ramsay ex Cheif MI6 as a member representing the westminister PLP, he also voted for himself and the Chair voted. But at least he's gone.

Good riddance!

[cabbageandribs1875]

He promised to crate jobs did he not?


he also told Queen Nic they didn't need the SNP :greengrin but he got that one right, his party needed a miracle instead, hopefully he does the same as that vile racist cretin Farage and changes his mind :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Looks like his arrogance has kept him going until the end and now he can say he left on his own terms.

He can say what he wants, we all know what he's like.

Spoke with two Labour dyed in the wool guys this evening in the boozer, one of them continued in the same vein he's been ploughing for the last 30 years, but the other has had his eyes opened with what's happened in the last few years, moving to the greens if Labour don't get their act together.

Interesting times ahead for all of us.

[marinello59]

He can say what he wants, we all know what he's like.

Spoke with two Labour dyed in the wool guys this evening in the boozer, one of them continued in the same vein he's been ploughing for the last 30 years, but the other has had his eyes opened with what's happened in the last few years, moving to the greens if Labour don't get their act together.

Interesting times ahead for all of us.

I just wonder where the genuine opposition in Scotland is going to come from. Labour just don't seem to know themselves what they actually stand for any more. And if they don't known what chance do the rest of us have?

[ronaldo7]

I just wonder where the genuine opposition in Scotland is going to come from. Labour just don't seem to know themselves what they actually stand for any more. And if they don't known what chance do the rest of us have?

I think Sarah Boyack will come to the fore in Scotland. Findlay had his chance but may come again. The real problem they have is what do they do with London Labour. The genie's out the bottle up here.

[Chibs]

The Scottish Labour party is kaput.
Jim Murphy is kaput.

[snooky]

He can say what he wants, we all know what he's like.

Spoke with two Labour dyed in the wool guys this evening in the boozer, one of them continued in the same vein he's been ploughing for the last 30 years, but the other has had his eyes opened with what's happened in the last few years, moving to the greens if Labour don't get their act together.

Interesting times ahead for all of us.

The two persons in my company tonight were totally anti-SNP.
Each to his own I suppose.

[Future17]

Secretary of State for Scotland

But that is the gig he got...

[lord bunberry]

But that is the gig he got...
I was talking about the last parliament where he was constantly overlooked despite being his party's sole representative in Scotland.

[marinello59]

I was talking about the last parliament where he was constantly overlooked despite being his party's sole representative in Scotland.

He wasn't the coalitions' only representative though.

[lucky]

I think Sarah Boyack will come to the fore in Scotland. Findlay had his chance but may come again. The real problem they have is what do they do with London Labour. The genie's out the bottle up here.

Findlay is not standing, Kez Dugdale will be the only candidate. But labours problem are deeper than Jim Murphy but with him gone we have a chance to rebuild.

[Future17]

I was talking about the last parliament where he was constantly overlooked despite being his party's sole representative in Scotland.

Ah right...I think that was more to do with him being a Tory than anything else...although you're right that he is exceptionally boring.

[Just Alf]

As a "Yesser" and having voted SNP in the GE I do really hope that Labour gets a grip and can become a proper force in Scottish politics, anything otherwise leading to a one party state** will become unhealthy for the Country

** I know that's a little ott but you get my drift I hope?

[lord bunberry]

He wasn't the coalitions' only representative though.
I know, but you would think that being his party's sole representative in Scotland may have bumped him up the order a bit. The fact they chose to give it to a Lib Dem twice rather than give it to him says a lot about Mundell. You would think they would be trying to increase their party's influence up here.

[Mikey09]

Just seen I'm an MP's wee face pop up on the BBC.... He loves a "movement" eh?! Must have said that word a dozen times.... Arse. :greengrin

[Mikey09]

Lord Dunlop's undersecretary post is pretty "irrelevant" isn't it? Most of the power in the office has long since been transferred during the course of devolution to the regional parliament in Edinburgh. Scotland's First Minister did not stand for Westminster election either, yet she is apparently in charge of the 56 seat SNP parliamentary party sitting there: what mandate has she for doing so? Why is Dunlop's appointment "wrong" - or a "wind-up" as you claim - yet Sturgeon's role is seemingly OK? Am I missing something here?


We'll see if it's irrelevant or not. Sturgeon is the first minister so why would she stand for election to Westminster? The 56 SNP MP's were democratically elected.... Was Dunlop?

[marinello59]

I know, but you would think that being his party's sole representative in Scotland may have bumped him up the order a bit. The fact they chose to give it to a Lib Dem twice rather than give it to him says a lot about Mundell. You would think they would be trying to increase their party's influence up here.

The LibDems had that job, his standing in the party was neither here nor there. No Tory would have been considered.

[johnbc70]

We'll see if it's irrelevant or not. Sturgeon is the first minister so why would she stand for election to Westminster? The 56 SNP MP's were democratically elected.... Was Dunlop?

Who would you have appointed instead out of interest? Someone who you would not class as a wind up maybe?

[lord bunberry]

The LibDems had that job, his standing in the party was neither here nor there. No Tory would have been considered.
Why did the Lib Dems have that job? If Mundell was seen as a rising star in the party would he have been considered? Or was it just decided that the post would go to a Lib Dem as they had more MPs up here?

[Mikey09]

Who would you have appointed instead out of interest? Someone who you would not class as a wind up maybe?


Listen... I don't know who would be best for the job but what I do know is making someone a lord and parachuting them into this position, with the history they have, is gonna piss a lot of people off. If it isn't an issue then why are a lot of reports and reactions to it in the you're taking the piss camp.

[marinello59]

Why did the Lib Dems have that job? If Mundell was seen as a rising star in the party would he have been considered? Or was it just decided that the post would go to a Lib Dem as they had more MPs up here?

Cast your mind back to the day the coalition was formed. Which party would you rather have running the Scottish Office? I suspect you will have answered why a LibDem was put in place.

[marinello59]

We'll see if it's irrelevant or not. Sturgeon is the first minister so why would she stand for election to Westminster? The 56 SNP MP's were democratically elected.... Was Dunlop?

It's not uncommon for somebody who is not serving in the commons to be put in to a ministerial job, all parties who have been in Goverment have done it. It is however an admission that they have nobody else better qualified. I take it you frothed at the mouth every single time this has happened though.

[marinello59]

As a "Yesser" and having voted SNP in the GE I do really hope that Labour gets a grip and can become a proper force in Scottish politics, anything otherwise leading to a one party state** will become unhealthy for the Country

** I know that's a little ott but you get my drift I hope?

I couldn't agree more. I just wonder if Labour are the party to provide an alternative voice now. Maybe the Tories under Ruth Davidson will start to rise again. My generations view of them as entirely toxic might become outdated sooner than we think.

[PeeJay]

We'll see if it's irrelevant or not. Sturgeon is the first minister so why would she stand for election to Westminster? The 56 SNP MP's were democratically elected.... Was Dunlop?

I think the post of under secretary is irrelevant, for the reasons I've stated: there's no point waiting to see, believe me. Not all government ministerial posts are taken up by people who have been elected either. YOU made the point about Dunlop not being democratically elected: you're correct, he was appointed, it's a perfectly normal part of UK government procedure: nothing sinister about it.

Sturgeon was not elected in the UK election, as you say she's FM in the regional parliament for Scotland. You seem to think it's wrong for Dunlop to be operating without a UK GE mandate, but OK for Sturgeon (her mandate is for elsewhere): that's patently ridiculous IMO ... you can't have it both ways

[snooky]

I couldn't agree more. I just wonder if Labour are the party to provide an alternative voice now. Maybe the Tories under Ruth Davidson will start to rise again. My generations view of them as entirely toxic might become outdated sooner than we think.

TBH, I sense there's a difference between a 'Scottish' Tory & and an 'English' Tory (though I'll probably be in the minority re. that statement). Although I would never vote for them, I do have some respect for the likes of Annabella Goldie and, dare I say it, Ruth Davidson.
FWIW, I had/have no respect at all for Lamont or Murphy despite my political views.

[Mikey09]

It's not uncommon for somebody who is not serving in the commons to be put in to a ministerial job, all parties who have been in Goverment have done it. It is however an admission that they have nobody else better qualified. I take it you frothed at the mouth every single time this has happened though.


Who's frothing at the mouth? To APPOINT someone who helped impliment the hated Poll Tax is opening up old wounds and pissing people off. That's all... No mouth frothing.

[marinello59]

TBH, I sense there's a difference between a 'Scottish' Tory & and an 'English' Tory (though I'll probably be in the minority re. that statement). Although I would never vote for them, I do have some respect for the likes of Annabella Goldie and, dare I say it, Ruth Davidson.
FWIW, I had/have no respect at all for Lamont or Murphy despite my political views.

If only Ruth Davidson was Labour instead of Tory. :greengrin

[EH6 Hibby]

If only Ruth Davidson was Labour instead of Tory. :greengrin

I quite like Ruth Davidson. It's a pity she's a Tory.

[Just Alf]

I couldn't agree more. I just wonder if Labour are the party to provide an alternative voice now. Maybe the Tories under Ruth Davidson will start to rise again. My generations view of them as entirely toxic might become outdated sooner than we think.

Got to say, I agree with what you say.... So many of my mates say they would be voting Tory if we were independent ....... Although that's a whole other argument I guess....

The current Scottish labour leadership team just seems so negative all the time to the extent I never see what they are trying to argue for :-( as someone who used to be a labour voter through thick and thin they need to give us SOMETHING to get us back?

[snooky]

"Kezia Dugdale favourite to take over as Scottish Labour leader"

Bampot after bampot after bampot.

[Just Alf]

"Kezia Dugdale favourite to take over as Scottish Labour leader"

Bampot after bampot after bampot.

You ain't wrong, pretty sure some of her interviews are why Labour did so poorly....

[heretoday]

I don't get this urge to be Blairite. Labour needs to get back to being Labour again.

[DaveF]

You ain't wrong, pretty sure some of her interviews are why Labour did so poorly....

Agree. She was a bitter, angry, elongated whinge in almost every interview I saw. I certainly wouldn't be rushing back to vote Labour with her in charge if that comes to pass.

[Future17]

I think the post of under secretary is irrelevant, for the reasons I've stated: there's no point waiting to see, believe me. Not all government ministerial posts are taken up by people who have been elected either. YOU made the point about Dunlop not being democratically elected: you're correct, he was appointed, it's a perfectly normal part of UK government procedure: nothing sinister about it.

Sturgeon was not elected in the UK election, as you say she's FM in the regional parliament for Scotland. You seem to think it's wrong for Dunlop to be operating without a UK GE mandate, but OK for Sturgeon (her mandate is for elsewhere): that's patently ridiculous IMO ... you can't have it both ways

Sturgeon isn't serving in the UK Government. Dunlop is.

[johnbc70]

I don't get this urge to be Blairite. Labour needs to get back to being Labour again.

And the last time a 'real' labour party won a general election was 1974 - 41 years ago. They cannot win ever going back to being 'Labour' again.

[johnbc70]

[/B]


Who's frothing at the mouth? To APPOINT someone who helped impliment the hated Poll Tax is opening up old wounds and pissing people off. That's all... No mouth frothing.

99% of people will probably have never heard of him, 99.9% will probably have no idea he helped implement the poll tax (although as we saw from earlier posts the facts are different to the urban myths). So in conclusion nobody really cares but you are determined to make out its some kind of public outrage.

[Mikey09]

99% of people will probably have never heard of him, 99.9% will probably have no idea he helped implement the poll tax (although as we saw from earlier posts the facts are different to the urban myths). So in conclusion nobody really cares but you are determined to make out its some kind of public outrage.


Dunno how to link but it would seem a lot of the papers have reported this, a lot of attention on social media as well where there has been quite a bit of outrage as you say. So to say nobody really cares is utter crap. Plenty people care. You believe what you like and I will do the same thanks... :aok: