General Election 2015...

[SHODAN]

The Telegraph have produced a brilliant tactical voting tool....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11542031/Tactical-voting-in-the-2015-general-election-how-to-stop-Ed-Miliband-winning.html

go on... try it

:thumbsup:

Regardless of who you pick to "lose" the election, it just tells you to vote anyone but SNP.

Great propaganda from the Torygraph once again.

[Just Alf]

Regardless of who you pick to "lose" the election, it just tells you to vote anyone but SNP.

Great propaganda from the Torygraph once again.

You noticed :greengrin

Also in England it seems to be spreading the Non Tory vote around..... got to be expected from those guys I guess :rolleyes:

[steakbake]

I don't believe that the SNP will get a clean sweep - don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the WM parties hammered. However, anything less now will be gleefully painted as a failure.

I'd say if 35+ seats come in, that would be remarkable.

[marinello59]

I don't believe that the SNP will get a clean sweep. However, anything less now will be gleefully painted as a failure.

I'd say if 35+ seats come in, that would be remarkable.

If the SNP took 35 seats rather than a clean sweep then nobody will be gleefully painting that as failure. There may be attempts by Labour to search for positives but that's only to be expected.

[weecounty hibby]

If the SNP took 35 seats rather than a clean sweep then nobody will be gleefully painting that as failure. There may be attempts by Labour to search for positives but that's only to be expected.
Anything more than 11 is historic. Above20 would be good. Over 30 would be incredible. 40 + would be above anyone's wildest expectations. Be prepared for the words failure and collapse if less than 50 though.

[Pretty Boy]

I'd say talk of a clean sweep is fanciful.

I still maintain if the SNP get 25 seats or more it is a wonderful achievement and would have been unthinkable even 18 months ago.

[Mibbes Aye]

I don't believe that the SNP will get a clean sweep - don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the WM parties hammered. However, anything less now will be gleefully painted as a failure.

I'd say if 35+ seats come in, that would be remarkable.

I think we need to put a stop to this. It's not true.

No one on here rubbed it in the face of the Yes posters when the referendum result came through.

I doubt anyone on here will be trying to gloat should the SNP not win the seats the polling suggests it should.

Why is it that pro-Yes or pro-SNP posters, or you Steakbake, need to always find a false flag to stoke resentment?

Heaven forfend, is it because you don't have decent policies to put forward? :greengrin

Because, behind all the flag-waving and posturing, that's what it's about.

What will make us better between 2015-2020?

[cabbageandribs1875]

I don't believe that the SNP will get a clean sweep - don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the WM parties hammered. However, anything less now will be gleefully painted as a failure.

I'd say if 35+ seats come in, that would be remarkable.


probably only the three posters who constantly told the yes voters to move on etc etc blah blah blah...the country had spoke blah blah blah...huge no vote had won blah blah, aye, 55% v 45% is a huge majority right enough...pfftt, they've not been saying much lately right enough :greengrin

[ACLeith]

Which one?

Both would make it an even half dozen :greengrin

I was thinking of Mr Daniel A, AKA Dode's lapdog.

[JimBHibees]

I'd say talk of a clean sweep is fanciful.

I still maintain if the SNP get 25 seats or more it is a wonderful achievement and would have been unthinkable even 18 months ago.

Agree media setting up Snp for a fall. Hope it is true as to me none of the other parties have given anything remotely interesting.

[johnbc70]

A very brave man indeed - http://www.milngavieherald.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/scot-bets-30-000-on-tory-majority-1-3758191

[Chibs]

A very brave man indeed - http://www.milngavieherald.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/scot-bets-30-000-on-tory-majority-1-3758191

This is compelling evidence why buckfast should be banned in Glasgow.

[Jonnyboy]

The Telegraph are reporting that SNP candidate Mhairi Black forgot to delete offensive tweets about Celtic fans. As much as I'd like to see Douglas Alexander lose his seat I'd rather he lost it to someone who had a bit more sense.

The same Telegraph that printed this letter http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...6pLid%3D346854

[Stranraer]

The same Telegraph that printed this letter http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...6pLid%3D346854

:agree: her Twitter account confirms it this time Jonny!

[snooky]

A very brave man indeed - http://www.milngavieherald.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/scot-bets-30-000-on-tory-majority-1-3758191

Just wondered if he is one of the guys that was in charge of the referendum ballot boxes. :hmmm:

[Stranraer]

Just wondered if he is one of the guys that was in charge of the referendum ballot boxes. :hmmm:

it's a conspiracy? :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

:agree: her Twitter account confirms it this time Jonny!

Ah, right ........... don't do Twitter, or facebook, or instagram ...... :greengrin

[Stranraer]

Ah, right ........... don't do Twitter, or facebook, or instagram ...... :greengrin

At least someone doesn't :greengrin anything other than Facebook is beyond me and I'm probably half your age :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

At least someone doesn't :greengrin anything other than Facebook is beyond me and I'm probably half your age :wink:

Closer to a third, I'd guess :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

The Scottish Sun is backing the SNP on tomorrow's front page where as the English version is still telling what a danger they are, is this just trying to protect sales in each region or do you think the editors get to choose who they back? Always got the impression Murdoch would have the final say on something so important so seems a tad strange

[Chibs]

Sun newsrag in Scotland apparently backing the snp tomorrow.
Sun newsrag in England backing cameron and the tories.
Now I'm not a rocket scientist but even can I see how much rupert murdoch and the media will go to to get the result they want.

p.s. I'll buy the Beano before I ever buy that rag.

[ronaldo7]

I think we need to put a stop to this. It's not true.

No one on here rubbed it in the face of the Yes posters when the referendum result came through.

I doubt anyone on here will be trying to gloat should the SNP not win the seats the polling suggests it should.

Why is it that pro-Yes or pro-SNP posters, or you Steakbake, need to always find a false flag to stoke resentment?

Heaven forfend, is it because you don't have decent policies to put forward? :greengrin

Because, behind all the flag-waving and posturing, that's what it's about.

What will make us better between 2015-2020?

I thought Steakbake was meaning the media in general would paint it as failure, not posters on here. I'm sure he can confirm/deny to stop any confusion.

[Mikey09]

Sun newsrag in Scotland apparently backing the snp tomorrow.
Sun newsrag in England backing cameron and the tories.
Now I'm not a rocket scientist but even can I see how much rupert murdoch and the media will go to to get the result they want.

p.s. I'll buy the Beano before I ever buy that rag.


Whats wrong with The Beano?! :greengrin

[Geo_1875]

I think we need to put a stop to this. It's not true.

No one on here rubbed it in the face of the Yes posters when the referendum result came through.

I doubt anyone on here will be trying to gloat should the SNP not win the seats the polling suggests it should.

Why is it that pro-Yes or pro-SNP posters, or you Steakbake, need to always find a false flag to stoke resentment?

Heaven forfend, is it because you don't have decent policies to put forward? :greengrin

Because, behind all the flag-waving and posturing, that's what it's about.

What will make us better between 2015-2020?

Why stop at 2020? Surely a major change in fiscal and social policies would "make us better" for a lot longer.

[Haymaker]

The Sun is quite funny considering every day in the English version they have derogatory stories and language (Jockestan, thieves etc) about us, not just the SNP but Scots in general.

[steakbake]

I thought Steakbake was meaning the media in general would paint it as failure, not posters on here. I'm sure he can confirm/deny to stop any confusion.

I am meaning the media and the pundits.

I wasn't getting personal.

[snooky]

I think we need to put a stop to this. It's not true.

No one on here rubbed it in the face of the Yes posters when the referendum result came through.

I doubt anyone on here will be trying to gloat should the SNP not win the seats the polling suggests it should.

Why is it that pro-Yes or pro-SNP posters, or you Steakbake, need to always find a false flag to stoke resentment?

Heaven forfend, is it because you don't have decent policies to put forward? :greengrin

Because, behind all the flag-waving and posturing, that's what it's about.

What will make us better between 2015-2020?

Why stop at 2020? Surely a major change in fiscal and social policies would "make us better" for a lot longer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32523804

What does the Moscow Sun say?
What does the Kiev Sun say?
What does the Gaza Strip Sun say?
What does the Tel Aviv Sun say?
What does the Seoul Sun say?
What does the Pyongyang Sun say?

How many Suns are there in the universe?

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Geo_1875;4361387]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32523804

What does the Moscow Sun say?
What does the Kiev Sun say?
What does the Gaza strop Sun say?
What does the Tel Aviv Sun say?
What does the Seoul Sun say?
What does the Pyongyang Sun say?

How many Suns are there in the universe?

They all say, essentially, "Blair *****ed my wife.... so now I'm *****ing Labour."

[ronaldo7]

I am meaning the media and the pundits.

I wasn't getting personal.

Thought you were:aok:

Maybe mibbes will apologise as he's a good lad.:greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Bankrolled by Brian Souter

Championed by Rupert Murdoch.

Nicola has interesting friends.


http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-300/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/4/30/1430384683811/826c9ee1-1f21-455c-9530-8d0df9712615-300x180.jpeg

[Mibbes Aye]

Why stop at 2020? Surely a major change in fiscal and social policies would "make us better" for a lot longer.

I agree, but it's 2015-2020 we are electing a government for.

[Hibrandenburg]

probably only the three posters who constantly told the yes voters to move on etc etc blah blah blah...the country had spoke blah blah blah...huge no vote had won blah blah, aye, 55% v 45% is a huge majority right enough...pfftt, they've not been saying much lately right enough :greengrin

Their complete lack of smugness was the pinnacle of smugness. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Miliband taking a bit of a spanking from the audience on Leaders Questions.

[Stranraer]

The Scottish Sun is backing the SNP on tomorrow's front page where as the English version is still telling what a danger they are, is this just trying to protect sales in each region or do you think the editors get to choose who they back? Always got the impression Murdoch would have the final say on something so important so seems a tad strange

They are glory hunters I think.

[Stax]

Miliband taking a bit of a spanking from the audience on Leaders Questions.
Nick Clegg on now, is he aware that Alex Salmond is no longer the leader of the snp?

[Stranraer]

Nick Clegg on now, is he aware that Alex Salmond is no longer the leader of the snp?

I don't think so. When I was in Birmingham (a good few months after Sturgeon took over) I was forever being asked what I thought of "Salmond and the SNP".

The Tories are taking a while to click on as well - their posters have Salmond all over them!

[Chibs]

Whats wrong with The Beano?! :greengrin

touche :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Nicola struggling a bit on the BBC.

Why is she complaining about the bedroom tax when two-thirds of SNP MPs avoided the vote to repeal it?

Where were they?

[Glory Lurker]

Keir Hardie's birling, birling, birling in his grave tonight.

[Moulin Yarns]

Bankrolled by Brian Souter

Championed by Rupert Murdoch.

Nicola has interesting friends.


http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-300/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/4/30/1430384683811/826c9ee1-1f21-455c-9530-8d0df9712615-300x180.jpeg

Anti SNP, anti SNP, change the record.

[Mibbes Aye]

Anti SNP, anti SNP, change the record.

Answer the point.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

If so, why?

If no, why not?

[Moulin Yarns]

Nicola struggling a bit on the BBC.

Why is she complaining about the bedroom tax when two-thirds of SNP MPs avoided the vote to repeal it?

Where were they?

Not to mention the 47 labour MPs that also failed to show.

[JimBHibees]

Nicola struggling a bit on the BBC.

Why is she complaining about the bedroom tax when two-thirds of SNP MPs avoided the vote to repeal it?

Where were they?

Probably the same place as the Scottish labour leader.

If you thought she was struggling you obviously didn't catch Murphys appalling performance on reporting scotland. He is actually worse than Joanne Lamont impossible as that may seem.

[Moulin Yarns]

Answer the point.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

If so, why?

If no, why not?

I am not voting SNP but if you can't say anything positive for your party better say nothing than repeat the same anti SNP ad infinitum

I have just realised the error in what I said, there is nothing positive to say about the red Tories.

Murphy on Reporting Scotland, oh dear.

Milliband on QT. Vote Tory cos I haven't got a hope

[Mibbes Aye]

Answer the point.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

If so, why?

If no, why not?


I am not voting SNP but if you can't say anything positive for your party better say nothing than repeat the same anti SNP ad infinitum

I know you're not an SNP voter.

And that's the very first time I've made that post.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

[johnbc70]

I am not voting SNP but if you can't say anything positive for your party better say nothing than repeat the same anti SNP ad infinitum

Hang on a minute - there are plenty of anti labour and anti tory posts on here but as soon as someone posts anything anti SNP they get shot down.

I am also not voting SNP but there needs to be some balance, plenty here slag labour and the tories so posters should be allowed to be critical of the SNP as well without being criticised for doing so.

[speedy_gonzales]

Nick Clegg on now, is he aware that Alex Salmond is no longer the leader of the snp?

Not seen the leaders debate tonight so can't comment on the context but Sturgeon isn't running for Westminster, Salmond will surely be leading the SNP in the PoW,,,,surely?

[snooky]

I know you're not an SNP voter.

And that's the very first time I've made that post.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

Which Rupert Murdoch? The 'English' one or the 'Scottish' one?

[GlesgaeHibby]

Ed Miliband confirms he'd rather see David Cameron return to power than do a deal with the SNP. Another nail in the coffin. They just don't get it.

[Moulin Yarns]

I know you're not an SNP voter.

And that's the very first time I've made that post.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?


And you?
I am already on record on these forums regarding Souter, same goes for Murdoch. Never touch News International or Sky

[Mibbes Aye]

Ed Miliband confirms he'd rather see David Cameron return to power than do a deal with the SNP. Another nail in the coffin. They just don't get it.

Except he didn't.

He said he would rather Labour tried to get it's own policies through than sold out by making deals with folk who think a council tax freeze and a corporation tax cut is a good deal for Scottish working people.

Slight difference :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

I know you're not an SNP voter.

And that's the very first time I've made that post.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

Championed by Murdoch, yer having a laugh surely? All Murdoch's interested in is selling newspapers and increasing his spidery web of influence. Are you seriously suggesting that the SNP have any say in what The Sun puts on its front page??? All Murdoch is doing is trying to protect his sales north and south of the border. I can see why you'd jump on this though but trying to score points for Labour due to Murdoch's schizophrenia is pretty low, even for your standards.

[snooky]

Ed Miliband confirms he'd rather see David Cameron return to power than do a deal with the SNP. Another nail in the coffin. They just don't get it.

"They think it's all over - it is now!" - Kenneth Wolstenholme 1966

[stoneyburn hibs]

I know you're not an SNP voter.

And that's the very first time I've made that post.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

Yes, not a problem as I find it quite easy to see past that.
It would also be quite easy to find unsavoury characters linked to Labour.

[weecounty hibby]

Answer the point.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

If so, why?

If no, why not?

I'll answer. Yes I will vote SNP as I totally believe that they have Scotland's interest 1st and they also have the strongest leader. I also firmly believe on an Independant Scotland.
Do I like Souter? No. Do I like Murdoch? No. But go and check out the Tory and Labour donors and you will find some pretty unsavoury characters. Personally I don't think that NS will let Souter or Murdoch sway her to their ideals.

[Mibbes Aye]

And you?
I am already on record on these forums regarding Souter, same goes for Murdoch. Never touch News International or Sky

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

[weecounty hibby]

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

So when Murdoch got Tony Blair elected what did you think then? Stop being a hypocrite

[CapitalGreen]

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

Excuse my ignorance, but why would they need to defend Murdoch exactly?

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes, not a problem as I find it quite easy to see past that.
It would also be quite easy to find unsavoury characters linked to Labour.

It football they call it "taking the man instead of the ball". It sums Labour up quite nicely though, they haven't got a plan themselves so they concentrate on trying to find fault in the plans of the others, when they can't do that they try and smear the others by association. It's a proven tactic often used by parties in opposition and unfortunately that's all this current Labour party are capable off as a stand alone party.

[Mibbes Aye]

So when Murdoch got Tony Blair elected what did you think then? Stop being a hypocrite

Murdoch didn't get Blair elected, he backed a winner.

How do you defend Souter funding the SNP?

[Mibbes Aye]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would they need to defend Murdoch exactly?

Defend their support.

Why has Brian Souter poured huge amounts in to the SNP?

[Mon Dieu4]

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

I will defend Souter, he has his views and put his money where his mouth was, do I agree with his views? Not in the slightest, but he is perfectly entitled to have them just as I am to think there is no place for chinos in the modern world

PS the SNP is bankrolled by 100,000 members

[weecounty hibby]

Murdoch didn't get Blair elected, he backed a winner.

How do you defend Souter funding the SNP?

He supported him via the Sun newspaper and you know it. If he hadn't Blair wouldn't have been elected so easily. I don't feel the need to defend Souter. I don't agree with him on many many things. I do agree with him however that the SNP are the best party to vote for

[CapitalGreen]

Defend their support.

Why has Brian Souter poured huge amounts in to the SNP?

Why do they need to defend Murdoch's support?

[Hibrandenburg]

Murdoch didn't get Blair elected, he backed a winner.

How do you defend Souter funding the SNP?

Ok, let me get this right. When Murdoch backed Labour throughout the UK he was "Backing a Winner" but when he backs the Tories in England by associating Labour with the SNP as a negative in England and raves about the SNP in the Scottish edition that's called "Championing"?

Bit hypocritical don't you think?

[Mibbes Aye]

I know you're not an SNP voter.

And that's the very first time I've made that post.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?


And you?
I am already on record on these forums regarding Souter, same goes for Murdoch. Never touch News International or Sky


You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

None of the SNP voters seem willing to justify why they take Brian Souter's money and Rupert Murdoch's patronage.

It's a simple question. Answers welcome?

You've shifted. I get that. Why do you want to dissociate yourself from Brian Souter and Rupert Murdoch?

Respect if you answer :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Ok, let me get this right. When Murdoch backed Labour throughout the UK he was "Backing a Winner" but when he backs the Tories in England by associating Labour with the SNP as a negative in England and raves about the SNP in the Scottish edition that's called "Championing"?

Bit hypocritical don't you think?

You're wrong.

I was talking about elections that had been decided, you are talking about elections that we haven't voted on yet.

[Hibrandenburg]

You're wrong.

I was talking about elections that had been decided, you are talking about elections that we haven't voted on yet.

Seriously? :faf:

[CapitalGreen]

None of the SNP voters seem willing to justify why they take Brian Souter's money and Rupert Murdoch's patronage.

It's a simple question. Answers welcome?

You've shifted. I get that. Why do you want to dissociate yourself from Brian Souter and Rupert Murdoch?

Respect if you answer :greengrin

I'll ask again.

Why do they need to defend Murdoch's support?

[weecounty hibby]

So let me get this right. The SNP should have told Souter no thanks to his money and asked Murdoch to tell his editor on Scotland not to support them. The editor in Scotland is on record as saying it was his choice along with his staff.
I don't recall Souter suggesting the his donation was for anything other than supporting independence and a stronger voice for Scotland in Westminster. I don't think he believes he will be able to convince many SNP people of some of his other beliefs. So again no problem for me on any of the nonsensical pathetic muck you are throwing and trying to make stick. Another unbelievably weak argument from a Labour supporter

[Mibbes Aye]

Seriously? :faf:

Is Brian Souter your man?

Is Rupert Murdoch your man?

They're paying the bills, you happy with that? And what it means?

[Hibrandenburg]

So let me get this right. The SNP should have told Souter no thanks to his money and asked Murdoch to tell his editor on Scotland not to support them. The editor in Scotland is on record as saying it was his choice along with his staff.
I don't recall Souter suggesting the his donation was for anything other than supporting independence and a stronger voice for Scotland in Westminster. I don't think he believes he will be able to convince many SNP people of some of his other beliefs. So again no problem for me on any of the nonsensical pathetic muck you are throwing and trying to make stick. Another unbelievably weak argument from a Labour supporter

:agree: But you've got to love his persistent loyalty.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is Brian Souter your man?

Is Rupert Murdoch your man?

They're paying the bills, you happy with that? And what it means?

You've had the answer several times from several posters and it's not going to change so why keep droning on with the question? I'll answer for you, it's the only tool in Labour's box.

[weecounty hibby]

You're wrong.

I was talking about elections that had been decided, you are talking about elections that we haven't voted on yet.

But Murdoch supported Blair throughout the campaign. You either weren't around at the time or choose not to remember the suns support for the Shift to the right of Tony Blair and New Labour

[Mibbes Aye]

So let me get this right. The SNP should have told Souter no thanks to his money and asked Murdoch to tell his editor on Scotland not to support them. The editor in Scotland is on record as saying it was his choice along with his staff.
I don't recall Souter suggesting the his donation was for anything other than supporting independence and a stronger voice for Scotland in Westminster. I don't think he believes he will be able to convince many SNP people of some of his other beliefs. So again no problem for me on any of the nonsensical pathetic muck you are throwing and trying to make stick. Another unbelievably weak argument from a Labour supporter

Yes.

Given his views against homosexuality, yes, yes and yes again.

I wouldn't touch his money.

Do you disagree?

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes.

Given his views against homosexuality, yes, yes and yes again.

I wouldn't touch his money.

Do you disagree?

So Labour are squeaky clean? Yes or no?

[Mibbes Aye]

I'll ask again.

Why do they need to defend Murdoch's support?

For real?

Why does the SNP need to justify Rupert Murdoch supporting them?

Bring it on :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

So Labour are squeaky clean? Yes or no?

I doubt it, but I wouldn't touch Brian Souter's money.

Do you think the SNP should take it?

[CapitalGreen]

For real?

Why does the SNP need to justify Rupert Murdoch supporting them?

Bring it on :agree:

Please answer my question.

[snooky]

And in the red corner .....


:stirrer: :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

I doubt it, but I wouldn't touch Brian Souter's money.

Do you think the SNP should take it?

Yes, why not? He is entitled to his opinion whether we find that opinion distasteful or not.
And "I doubt it" is hardly answering a question. Even though you have had many answers to yours just like Jim Murphy when it's all you've got just keep asking and asking and hope that seething may stick. Poor poor tactics by labour and the reason that they are a party in decline not only in Svotland

[Hibrandenburg]

I doubt it, but I wouldn't touch Brian Souter's money.

Do you think the SNP should take it?

Aye, and they should take him for every penny if they get the chance. His beliefs regarding homosexuality are simply not tolerable and against that what the vast majority of what SNP members believe. Taking a fools money doesn't mean you agree with that fool.

So now the question has been answered for the umpteenth time, maybe you can answer the long list of questions posed at you?

[Mibbes Aye]

You've had the answer several times from several posters and it's not going to change so why keep droning on with the question? I'll answer for you, it's the only tool in Labour's box.

During the referendum campaign I asked the same question again and again about the council tax freeze. No one answered. Will you do now?

And while you're at it, answer me this. Why are you happy to take Brian Souter's money?

Answer the question?

[cabbageandribs1875]

very happy indeed siliband has said no deal with the SNP :agree: looking very much forward to seeing that donut squirming...along with crate boy murphy "we don't need you niciola" :cb the thought of miliband being the gaffer at westminster is really quite a scary thought for all citizens of the UK...seriously

[steakbake]

Labour man loses his **** in the jaws of defeat.

Can't believe Miliband has basically said: he'd rather have a Tory government than do a deal with the SNP.

Shameful. Cowardly.

[Mibbes Aye]

Aye, and they should take him for every penny if they get the chance. His beliefs regarding homosexuality are simply not tolerable and against that what the vast majority of what SNP members believe. Taking a fools money doesn't mean you agree with that fool.

So now the question has been answered for the umpteenth time, maybe you can answer the long list of questions posed at you?

So you will you argue to return his money?

It's a point of principle. You've called him a fool. If he said women were simpletons or black people were stupid, would you take his money?

You'll take his money though he has intolerable views about gay folk - your own words.

Come on, WTF?

[CapitalGreen]

So you will you argue to return his money?

It's a point of principle. You've called him a fool. If he said women were simpletons or black people were stupid, would you take his money?

You'll take his money though he has intolerable views about gay folk - your own words.

Come on, WTF?

Will you answer my question?

[Just Alf]

One can only assume someone's been on the sauce :agree:


:faf:

[Mibbes Aye]

Will you answer my question?

CG, I'm happy to answer your question, sorry, it's a busy thread. What was it?

[marinello59]

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

I can't defend Souter's views on homesexuality any more than I could defend some views held by various donors to the other parties. It's ironic that his donation has gone to a party who has done much to sideline homophobic views though.
As for Murdoch he is not championing anyone, he is trying to sell newspapers. Newpapers don't lead public opinion. they follow what they perceive to be their target audience. (I may have expressed this view before. 😄)That's exactly what the Sun has done here. A tougher shout in England, a coin toss may have been needed.

[Hibrandenburg]

So you will you argue to return his money?

It's a point of principle. You've called him a fool. If he said women were simpletons or black people were stupid, would you take his money?

You'll take his money though he has intolerable views about gay folk - your own words.

Come on, WTF?

His money's not, homophobic, sexist or a rapist. Labour accept donations from war criminals so this line of argumentation is hardly likely to put Labour in a better light than the SNP. Think you might have been the worse for wear last night so we might just want to draw a line under that and start again.

[BroxburnHibee]

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch.

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds?

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch?

Why should we have to?

I already made the point ages ago (which you missed) that every political party will have donaters they'd keep at arms length.

As for Murdoch - supports Tory down south and SNP up here, if you can't see beyond that then it's a waste of time debating with you.

[Moulin Yarns]

You've still not answered me!

I'm not going to vote for a party bankrolled by Souter and championed by Murdoch. - NEITHER AM I AS WELL YOU KNOW

Are you saying no to the SNP on the same grounds? - NO, I AM NOT VOTING SNP BECAUSE I MORE CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH A PARTY THAT IS A MORE SOCIALLY AND ENVIRONMENTALLY AWARE PARTY, IN MY OPINION

More importantly, if anyone is voting SNP, can you defend Souter or Murdoch? - SEE ABOVE



People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones, as others have said, politicians of other parties are not squeaky clean

[Moulin Yarns]

Murdoch didn't get Blair elected, he backed a winner.

How do you defend Souter funding the SNP?

So, a U-TURN already, Murdoch will get the SNP elected (according to you) but didn't do the same.

Murdoch backs winners to keep readers, he looks at the polls and decides who he will back

Souter has money and he alone decides how to spend it. I don't have a problem with that. His outdated opinions on homosexuality is a single thing I disagree with

[bawheid]

Answer the point.

Would you vote for someone bankrolled by Brian Souter and championed by Rupert Murdoch?

If so, why?

If no, why not?

This is desperate stuff Mibbes. I hope Scottish Labour have a good look at themselves after this election. Out of touch doesn't even scratch the surface.

[HiBremian]

Labour man loses his **** in the jaws of defeat.

Can't believe Miliband has basically said: he'd rather have a Tory government than do a deal with the SNP.

Shameful. Cowardly.

I guess there's two scenarios here, both repugnant to voters in Scotland:

1) He really means what he says, and will back another Tory gvt.
2) It's just electioneering smoke and mirrors. He'll change his tune on 9th May.

Think the Labour Party will need to develop some new training courses for their folks - how to deal with an awake electorate.


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[Tyler Durden]

I guess there's two scenarios here, both repugnant to voters in Scotland:

1) He really means what he says, and will back another Tory gvt.
2) It's just electioneering smoke and mirrors. He'll change his tune on 9th May.

Think the Labour Party will need to develop some new training courses for their folks - how to deal with an awake electorate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think the plan is clear. He forms a minority government and expects SNP to vote with him without having to do any deal. Plenty of voters will commend that stance

[Hibbyradge]

Labour man loses his **** in the jaws of defeat.

Can't believe Miliband has basically said: he'd rather have a Tory government than do a deal with the SNP.

Shameful. Cowardly.

He didn't actually say that.

Even if he did, how would it be cowardly?

[HiBremian]

I think the plan is clear. He forms a minority government and expects SNP to vote with him without having to do any deal. Plenty of voters will commend that stance

So he'll need the SNP to vote down a Cameron attempt at doing the same, but will refuse to talk with them about his own chances. Recipe for another election, I think.


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[marinello59]

Labour man loses his **** in the jaws of defeat.

Can't believe Miliband has basically said: he'd rather have a Tory government than do a deal with the SNP.

Shameful. Cowardly.

He hasn't said he would prefer a Tory Goverment.
There is nothing cowardly about his stance. He is playing the long game here. If the results come in as expected then he needs to play as strong a hand as possible. It would be weak of him to state now that there may be concessions to be made. He will have to talk to the SNP but he would be quite within his rights to dare the SNP to strangle a Labour minority Government at birth. I still reckon there will be some sort of very loose alliance which will allow Sturgeon and Milliband to both claim they got what they wanted.

[ronaldo7]

The First Minister will be in Musselburgh High street this morning meeting the people if anyone wants to introduce themselves:greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Is Brian Souter your man?

Is Rupert Murdoch your man?

They're paying the bills, you happy with that? And what it means?

What 'bills' is Murdoch paying? You really nead to back up your claims.

Souter donated to the SNP, so has every member.

what is your point?

can you claim in all seriousness that Labour has never had a supporter or someone who has donated to their funds who they think they would have been better disassociating themselves from?

You were the same on the referendum campaign, you had a single argument and went on about despite several answers.

I have answered the question about Souter elsewhere, The sun Scottish Editor has come out in favour of the SNP, maybe you should castigate Murdoch for the opinions of his staff instead, after all his English editor has come out in favour of the TOries. OOPS, of course that's who Miliband wants in government after next week. Well, he did say he didn't want to govern if it meant having to rely on the SNP for support. Go figure!

[Moulin Yarns]

None of the SNP voters seem willing to justify why they take Brian Souter's money and Rupert Murdoch's patronage.

It's a simple question. Answers welcome?

You've shifted. I get that. Why do you want to dissociate yourself from Brian Souter and Rupert Murdoch?

Respect if you answer :greengrin

I have, often, happy now? :greengrin

[southfieldhibby]

Is Brian Souter your man?

Is Rupert Murdoch your man?

They're paying the bills, you happy with that? And what it means?


During the referendum campaign I asked the same question again and again about the council tax freeze. No one answered. Will you do now?

And while you're at it, answer me this. Why are you happy to take Brian Souter's money?

Answer the question?

We live in a democracy, and his opinion will strike a chord with alot of folk ( not me) but to characterise him as some kind of lone wolf homo basher is pretty off the mark I think.The SNP is a pretty broad church I reckon. Most folk won't give a monkeys about what folks sexuality is,but for some, the religious folk in particular, it's important.

And at least he's not a leading member of The cabinet, unlike someone like Harriet Harman and her PIE opinions, or members of the highly dubious Speculative Society and the unproven but disturbing links to Thomas Hamilton.So every political party has deranged lunatics, they reflect society, I think.

And I could be wrong, but isn't council tax increases only going to hurt the poorest elements of society? I genuinely don't know, but it's the impression I've formed.

Btw, I'm voting for Peter McColl in Edinburgh East.

[NYHibby]

So he'll need the SNP to vote down a Cameron attempt at doing the same, but will refuse to talk with them about his own chances. Recipe for another election, I think.


Agree. The SNP has the option to abstain. Depending on how close the Tory, Labour and SNP seat counts are, you could have Labour being able to form a government and pass a budget with SNP support but then the SNP abstain on English and Welsh matters. With the SNP abstaining, the Opposition could block everything else.

You could end up with a stable UK government but a completely dysfunctional E&W government. At that point, using the fixed term parliament act, you would have to think that Labour and the Tories would agree to a new election.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes.

Given his views against homosexuality, yes, yes and yes again.

I wouldn't touch his money.

Do you disagree?

Let me turn your argument around, has Souter, or Murdoch for that matter, had any influence to SNP policy? To save you the bother, the answer is NO.

Souter disagreed with the SNP on Clause 2A, he spent £1million to fight the SNP on the repeal of Clause 2A

He spent £1million in support of the Independence campaign

He donated £500k to the SNP to " redress an imbalance in funding" and has since doubled that to £1million.

But not once has he said, "I'll geve you some money if you will get something on the statute book.



His charitable trust has donated £20million to humanitarian projects, I wonder what Labour suporters have managed?

Happy Now? :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Let me turn your argument around, has Souter, or Murdoch for that matter, had any influence to SNP policy? To save you the bother, the answer is NO.

Souter disagreed with the SNP on Clause 2A, he spent £1million to fight the SNP on the repeal of Clause 2A

He spent £1million in support of the Independence campaign

He donated £500k to the SNP to " redress an imbalance in funding" and has since doubled that to £1million.

But not once has he said, "I'll geve you some money if you will get something on the statute book.



His charitable trust has donated £20million to humanitarian projects, I wonder what Labour suporters have managed?

Happy Now? :greengrin

Replying to my own post is crazy, but here goes.

Dodgy dealings in the Labour Party with thanks to Iain McWhirter

http://iainmacwhirter2.blogspot.co.uk/2007/12/dodgy-donations-labour-disease.html

Remember there was an Labour instigated investigation, at tax payers expense, into the Souter donations which cleared Alex Salmond of any wrongdoing.

[JeMeSouviens]

Of course, News International haven't backed anyone in UK politics before, have they? :rolleyes:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01946/murdoch-brown_1946936c.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1631294/images/o-TONY-BLAIR-REBEKAH-BROOKS-facebook.jpg

http://labourlist.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Miliband-The-Sun-346x500.png


... and it's a darned good job Labour wouldn't take millions from anyone remotely dodgy ... :rolleyes:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01437/Richard-Desmond_1437878c.jpg


Desperate doesn't even begin to cover this particular line of attack ...

[steakbake]

We live in a democracy, and his opinion will strike a chord with alot of folk ( not me) but to characterise him as some kind of lone wolf homo basher is pretty off the mark I think.The SNP is a pretty broad church I reckon. Most folk won't give a monkeys about what folks sexuality is,but for some, the religious folk in particular, it's important.

I think all political parties are a broad church. I had a ludicrous conversation with someone recently (a Labour supporter - promise I'm not picking on them) who believed the SNP were a one-policy party: how else could one account for the likes of Fergus Ewing (right) and Rosanna Cunningham (left) being in the same political party.

Look at any political party and you have Frank Field and Tony Benn in the same party (or Jim Murphy and Neil Findlay, even), or Ken Clarke and IDS breathing the same meeting room air (though it should be noted the Tory left is fading and I'd put Cameron in the centre with most of his party to his right).

[Stranraer]

Nicola struggling a bit on the BBC.

Why is she complaining about the bedroom tax when two-thirds of SNP MPs avoided the vote to repeal it?

Where were they?

I don't see why it's called a Bedroom tax anyway - it isn't a tax. I disagree with the measure but I'll stick to not calling the spare room subsidy (a reduction in benefits for those with a spare room) a tax.

[ronaldo7]

Met the FM this morning down in Sunny Mussy. Nice chat with a few Labour/Tory hecklers around. Still wondering how we're going to inject some stem cells into Ed's backbone to make him Red Ed again. He's tuned a funny colour of pink these days.

Enjoy the remainder of the campaign guys.:aok:

[speedy_gonzales]

And at least he's not a leading member of The cabinet, unlike someone like Harriet Harman and her PIE opinions, or members of the highly dubious Speculative Society and the unproven but disturbing links to Thomas Hamilton.So every political party has deranged lunatics, they reflect society, I think.

Harriet Harman was a solicitor for the NCCL (National Council for Civil Liberties). At some point in the 70's, PIE became affiliated to the NCCL before being kicked out. Harman has consistently denied any support for PIE and has publicly stated her regret for any involvement between the two groups, that doesn't stop the (right wing) media writing stories to suit there own agenda though.



And I could be wrong, but isn't council tax increases only going to hurt the poorest elements of society? I genuinely don't know, but it's the impression I've formed.


In my opinion you are wrong. The poorest in society are affected the greatest by council tax freezes and the subsequent cuts by the councils.

A council tax freeze only helps (initially) those that actually pay the tax. As we all know the bandings already help those with more expensive houses as the assumption is they are richer so they are paying proportionally less of their income towards the tax (being fixed and not pro rata).
The councils themselves tried to fight the SNP over this in the past but (and this is where my memory gets fuzzy) there was a threat that if they objected they would lose other parts of their budget and be expelled from COSLA, or something like that.
The resultant drop in relative income for the councils meant cuts had to be made. The cuts were made in services that protected the most vulnerable in our society. Not just libraries & child care, but social care including meals on wheels.
The SNP have made some tremendous changes in the last 16 years that have really been a benefit to our society, but the council tax freeze is a populist vote winner that sticks in my craw!

[JeMeSouviens]

More praise for Slimebucket ...

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/04/29/has-any-labour-leader-ever-run-a-worse-campaign-than-jim-mur

[snooky]

More praise for Slimebucket ...

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/04/29/has-any-labour-leader-ever-run-a-worse-campaign-than-jim-mur

Some interesting comments below that article.
I particularly liked the assimilation of Murphy to the "pantomime baddie".
The Widow T****y no doubt. :wink:


ps: The asterisks are the admins doing, not mine. :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

siliband refusing to deal with Plaid Cymru as well, i do hope he has his resignation letter already typed out for next friday, i mean surely if Labour need the help of the SNP and Plaid Cymru he would be too embarrassed to work with them...right ?

[Chibs]

Some interesting comments below that article.
I particularly liked the assimilation of Murphy to the "pantomime baddie".
The Widow T****y no doubt. :wink:


ps: The asterisks are the admins doing, not mine. :greengrin
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRs2O-UPcf7-QZH5rdqH9zpS9EbFSsMqY37BFkSpxhuTqVgqeAoAwhttps://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDnA5sMjEQVQ-1NY2U_nSitdZVo89lqFYnnjAhfyDHvKnkKUbW

[Geo_1875]

siliband refusing to deal with Plaid Cymru as well, i do hope he has his resignation letter already typed out for next friday, i mean surely if Labour need the help of the SNP and Plaid Cymru he would be too embarrassed to work with them...right ?

Who would take his place though? Nobody with an eye to the future would touch it with a bargepole.

[snooky]

Who would take his place though? Nobody with an eye to the future would touch it with a bargepole.

David Miliband :wink:

:hug: <- Bros again

[Moulin Yarns]

Who would take his place though? Nobody with an eye to the future would touch it with a bargepole.


Andy Burnham?

[Geo_1875]

David Miliband :wink:

:hug: <- Bros again

He will not be back until Labour are a shoo-in for a majority. So not any time soon.


Andy Burnham?

Only if he fancies a short term contract.

[HiBremian]

siliband refusing to deal with Plaid Cymru as well, i do hope he has his resignation letter already typed out for next friday, i mean surely if Labour need the help of the SNP and Plaid Cymru he would be too embarrassed to work with them...right ?

Surely he has to add the greens to the list after that lassies' love-in?!?!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[--------]

Some interesting comments below that article.

I particularly liked the assimilation of Murphy to the "pantomime baddie".
The Widow T****y no doubt. :wink:

ps: The asterisks are the admins doing, not mine. :greengrin


"Armed Forces for Independence YES" for example.

I couldn't have put it better myself -

After last year it doesn't matter what Murphy does. Labour has had my vote for 30 years and I will never vote for them again after the names I was called by them for voting yes. I would possibly have been able to accept some of it if I had not served in the forces , but to be called a separatist and likened to the IRA who killed friends and colleagues, that was just a bridge too far in my books. Not to mention standing side by side with the Tory party.

If we harp back to Keir Hardie's ideals when he founded the Labour party, it is no longer even close to resembling what it is meant to be. Labour is dead. SNP is the only true and real option for Scotland now.

Scotland and England have moved in opposite directions for centuries, never has that been more apparent than now. The pulling forces are now so great, it is a matter of time before they split apart. It would be better for Scotland and the English if that happened sooner rather than later. It is destroying the UK and Scotland!

The abuse and bigoted comments directed at the Scots now is at an all time high. If someone on the street was to do this they would face criminal charges! Why stay with a partner who abuses, name calls and threatens you? You wouldn't do it in marriage so why do it in a union?

[--------]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRs2O-UPcf7-QZH5rdqH9zpS9EbFSsMqY37BFkSpxhuTqVgqeAoAwhttps://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDnA5sMjEQVQ-1NY2U_nSitdZVo89lqFYnnjAhfyDHvKnkKUbW





This is what you get when you cross Reinhard Heydrich with Muffin the Mule?

[Mibbes Aye]

Let me turn your argument around, has Souter, or Murdoch for that matter, had any influence to SNP policy? To save you the bother, the answer is NO.

Souter disagreed with the SNP on Clause 2A, he spent £1million to fight the SNP on the repeal of Clause 2A

He spent £1million in support of the Independence campaign

He donated £500k to the SNP to " redress an imbalance in funding" and has since doubled that to £1million.

But not once has he said, "I'll geve you some money if you will get something on the statute book.



His charitable trust has donated £20million to humanitarian projects, I wonder what Labour suporters have managed?

Happy Now? :greengrin

In 2003 the SNP manifesto carried a commitment to re-regulate the bus network. This was re-affirmed at their conference in 2006.

In March 2007 Brian Souter gave them £500,000.

In April 2007 their new manifesto came out and re-regulation had disappeared.

You might say it was coincidence but your party thought differently (https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/news/greens-back-re-regulation-of-buses/) :wink:

[Mibbes Aye]

This is desperate stuff Mibbes. I hope Scottish Labour have a good look at themselves after this election. Out of touch doesn't even scratch the surface.

Do you know what's desperate bawheid?

If you read through my posts, you won't find me calling people 'slimebucket'.

You won't find me posting images of Nazis and associating them with SNP politicians.

FFS, we've even had people slagging off Margaret Curran for her accent.

There's a nasty side to the SNP support that relies on very personal, very vitriolic attacks. We saw the same thing during the referendum

I'm guessing it allows people who can't talk about policy to 'participate'.

Huge turn-off for swing voters I would imagine.

[7 Hills]

In 2003 the SNP manifesto carried a commitment to re-regulate the bus network. This was re-affirmed at their conference in 2006.

In March 2007 Brian Souter gave them £500,000.

In April 2007 their new manifesto came out and re-regulation had disappeared.

You might say it was coincidence but your party thought differently (https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/news/greens-back-re-regulation-of-buses/) :wink:

What's your thoughts on the General Secretary of Unite (the Labour Party's biggest donor), Len McCluskey's support of Luftur Rahman? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/30/unite-leader-len-mccluskey-backs-dismissed-mayor-lutfur-rahman

[Mibbes Aye]

What's your thoughts on the General Secretary of Unite (the Labour Party's biggest donor), Len McCluskey's support of Luftur Rahman? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/30/unite-leader-len-mccluskey-backs-dismissed-mayor-lutfur-rahman

I have to be honest, I haven't really followed this story at all, apart from something I read the other day.

I don't generally like to post links but there was an interesting article in the Guardian on Wednesday about Rahman that drew a comparison between how Islam is portrayed currently, with how Irish Catholics were treated one hundred and fifty years ago. I've posted similarly a long time back, the parallels are remarkable.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/29/lutfur-rahman-tower-hamlets-mayor-verdict-undue-spiritual-influence

[lord bunberry]

siliband refusing to deal with Plaid Cymru as well, i do hope he has his resignation letter already typed out for next friday, i mean surely if Labour need the help of the SNP and Plaid Cymru he would be too embarrassed to work with them...right ?

Anything other than a Labour majority is going to make him look stupid now. Imagine how he will look if Labour are the biggest party but don't form a government, he's backed himself needlessly into a corner. A skilled politician would've deflected the questions on a coalition.

[Mibbes Aye]

Anything other than a Labour majority is going to make him look stupid now. Imagine how he will look if Labour are the biggest party but don't form a government, he's backed himself needlessly into a corner. A skilled politician would've deflected the questions on a coalition.

And rightfully been accused of not giving a straight answer.

He is entitled to say he's going for a majority. The polls allow him that, even if it's based on the margin of error.

Talking about deals would just weaken his position so there's no point doing that.

There's only two men who will be prime minister. One of them has already failed to get a majority when the odds were in his favour. He won't get away with failing to secure a majority again.

[lord bunberry]

And rightfully been accused of not giving a straight answer.

He is entitled to say he's going for a majority. The polls allow him that, even if it's based on the margin of error.

Talking about deals would just weaken his position so there's no point doing that.

There's only two men who will be prime minister. One of them has already failed to get a majority when the odds were in his favour. He won't get away with failing to secure a majority again.

I think he's more than entitled to say he won't contemplate defeat. The fact that he has made comment on this and ruled out working with the SNP is a mistake IMO.
The media are portraying any sort of deal with the SNP as Alex Salmond running the country, yet Cameron has had to do a deal with Clegg for the past 5 years and no one is saying Clegg is running the country.

[Mibbes Aye]

I think he's more than entitled to say he won't contemplate defeat. The fact that he has made comment on this and ruled out working with the SNP is a mistake IMO.
The media are portraying any sort of deal with the SNP as Alex Salmond running the country, yet Cameron has had to do a deal with Clegg for the past 5 years and no one is saying Clegg is running the country.

Clegg never really recovered from AV, did he? :greengrin

Putting any personal preference aside, do you think he has to rule out the deal in order to negate the attack from the Telgraph, Mail and Murdoch that he would be in the pocket of Salmond?

Sometimes politics is quite base and I think this is an example.

I would hope that MPs from Labour and the SNP could find lots of common ground, even if informally. Both would claim to be progressive.

[lord bunberry]

Clegg never really recovered from AV, did he? :greengrin

Putting any personal preference aside, do you think he has to rule out the deal in order to negate the attack from the Telgraph, Mail and Murdoch that he would be in the pocket of Salmond?

Sometimes politics is quite base and I think this is an example.

I would hope that MPs from Labour and the SNP could find lots of common ground, even if informally. Both would claim to be progressive.

If he's trying to counter whatever the Telegraph says then he's playing to the wrong audience IMO. He's trying to be both left and right at the same time and failing on both counts. The UK is crying out for a credible left of centre party.

[Mibbes Aye]

If he's trying to counter whatever the Telegraph says then he's playing to the wrong audience IMO. He's trying to be both left and right at the same time and failing on both counts. The UK is crying out for a credible left of centre party.

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like?

Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more?

Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts?

Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax?

Somebody who will abolish nondom status?

Is that what you mean?

[Mibbes Aye]

If he's trying to counter whatever the Telegraph says then he's playing to the wrong audience IMO. He's trying to be both left and right at the same time and failing on both counts. The UK is crying out for a credible left of centre party.

Was he left and right on Syria?

Was he left and right on Milly Dowler and Rebekah Brooks?

Was he left and right on energy bills?

You know he wasn't but you don't want to give him credit for that.

[lord bunberry]

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like?

Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more?

Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts?

Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax?

Somebody who will abolish nondom status?

Is that what you mean?
somebody who will have the courage to fight for the working classes. Whilst I agree that the above policies are welcome, they don't go nearly far enough.

[Hibby Bairn]

I think that the UK needs a strong Labour party. But I don't think the voters really understand what Labour stands for nowadays. That is Miliband's problem and he hasn't worked hard enough to sort it.

Sturgeon and SNP have made it pretty clear what they stand for and what they would do. And they have stolen Labour's ground in Scotland as a result.

[lord bunberry]

Was he left and right on Syria?

Was he left and right on Milly Dowler and Rebekah Brooks?

Was he left and right on energy bills?

You know he wasn't but you don't want to give him credit for that.
None of the things you list above are relevant to my last post. I was referring to him and Labours policies in this general election campaign. He's trying to fight off the Tories and UKIP down south and the SNP up here. Why doesn't he just set out a left of centre vision of what he wants for this country, rather than saying what he thinks will give him the best chance of being prime minister? People expect more from the Labour Party and right now he isn't delivering.
Ive never said he hasn't got anything right or had some good ideas, I just think he's joined the scramble for the centre ground at a time when the voters are looking elsewhere.

[The Harp Awakes]

Was he left and right on Syria?

Was he left and right on Milly Dowler and Rebekah Brooks?

Was he left and right on energy bills?

You know he wasn't but you don't want to give him credit for that.

MA, I think your leader needs to grow a pair of balls. He's been backed into a corner by the Tories and right wing Media into ruling out any sort of deal with the SNP. Rather than come out fighting and take on the Tories on their record, his strategy has been to join in with the them in demonising the SNP, and effectively saying he'd rather have Cameron in power than keeping him out with the SNP's help.

Milliband's strategy may win a few votes in England but in Scotland the electorate are perplexed at his stance. Whether they agree with the SNP's politics or not, the Scottish electorate know that the SNP have run a stable and effective Government for 8 years and are not the bogeyman that the Tories and Labour Party are depicting them to be. That is a big factor in the ever strengthening support for the SNP in the opinion polls IMO.

[Mibbes Aye]

MA, I think your leader needs to grow a pair of balls. He's been backed into a corner by the Tories and right wing Media into ruling out any sort of deal with the SNP. Rather than come out fighting and take on the Tories on their record, his strategy has been to join in with the them in demonising the SNP, and effectively saying he'd rather have Cameron in power than keeping him out with the SNP's help.

Milliband's strategy may win a few votes in England but in Scotland the electorate are perplexed at his stance. Whether they agree with the SNP's politics or not, the Scottish electorate know that the SNP have run a stable and effective Government for 8 years and are not the bogeyman that the Tories and Labour Party are depicting them to be. That is a big factor in the ever strengthening support for the SNP in the opinion polls IMO.

You choose to miss the point I think.

It would have been easy to run away on Syria.

It would have been easy to run feart from Murdoch on Milly Dowler and Rebekah Brooks.

It would have been easy to run feart from the energy companies.

He didn't.

He's got balls and doesn't need Murdoch's support or the money of a man who wants to discriminate against gays. Nicola can't say the same, can she?

He's said he wants power in his own right, rather than Cameron being in, so why would you lie about what he's said. You know he never said what you are suggesting, so why make things up?

"Stable and effective government..." Why are A+E times going up? Why are care budgets being cut because of a council tax freeze that benefits the richest the most?

[Mibbes Aye]

Do you know what's desperate bawheid?

If you read through my posts, you won't find me calling people 'slimebucket'.

You won't find me posting images of Nazis and associating them with SNP politicians.

FFS, we've even had people slagging off Margaret Curran for her accent.

There's a nasty side to the SNP support that relies on very personal, very vitriolic attacks. We saw the same thing during the referendum

I'm guessing it allows people who can't talk about policy to 'participate'.

Huge turn-off for swing voters I would imagine.

Do you know what else is desperate bawheid?

I posted this yesterday but not one SNP supporter has found the nerve to come on and refute it, defend it or deny it.

What an embarrassment.

[Chibs]

Do you know what else is desperate bawheid?

I posted this yesterday but not one SNP supporter has found the nerve to come on and refute it, defend it or deny it.

What an embarrassment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtfgfv5iN4&list=RDaEtfgfv5iN4#t=0

chill out mate.

[The Harp Awakes]

You choose to miss the point I think.

It would have been easy to run away on Syria.

It would have been easy to run feart from Murdoch on Milly Dowler and Rebekah Brooks.

It would have been easy to run feart from the energy companies.

He didn't.

He's got balls and doesn't need Murdoch's support or the money of a man who wants to discriminate against gays. Nicola can't say the same, can she?

He's said he wants power in his own right, rather than Cameron being in, so why would you lie about what he's said. You know he never said what you are suggesting, so why make things up?

"Stable and effective government..." Why are A+E times going up? Why are care budgets being cut because of a council tax freeze that benefits the richest the most?

Not sure what point I'm choosing to miss?

Something is causing Labour's support to continue to haemorrhage in Scotland. Average swings in the OP's are ~25% to the SNP seat to seat, mainly from Labour. Milliband is your leader in the UK and Murphy your leader in Scotland. It sounds like you think they are doing a good job?

I admire your loyalty to Labour MA, but you can't see the wood from the trees. The Labour Party's 2015 GE campaign in Scotland has been completely negative and an utter disaster. They have not learned the lessons from the 2014 referendum and deserve to be cast into oblivion on Thursday. I speak as someone who voted Labour religiously for 20 years.

[Mibbes Aye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtfgfv5iN4&list=RDaEtfgfv5iN4#t=0

chill out mate.

:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you know what else is desperate bawheid?

I posted this yesterday but not one SNP supporter has found the nerve to come on and refute it, defend it or deny it.

What an embarrassment.

We were all out celebrating Labour day! :wink:

[GlesgaeHibby]

Except he didn't.

He said he would rather Labour tried to get it's own policies through than sold out by making deals with folk who think a council tax freeze and a corporation tax cut is a good deal for Scottish working people.

Slight difference :wink:

Except he did. The only other party that can form a government is the Tory party, so it is pretty clear he would rather allow the Tories into power than work with the SNP.

"if the price of a Labour government was a coalition or a deal with the Scottish National Party, not gonna happen.”

“Let me just say this to you, Simon: if it meant that we weren’t going to be in government, not having a coalition, not doing a deal, then so be it.”

[ronaldo7]

Do you know what else is desperate bawheid?

I posted this yesterday but not one SNP supporter has found the nerve to come on and refute it, defend it or deny it.

What an embarrassment.

I'm sure you can cope without listening to any SNP supporters having a go at you:greengrin

And I'm sure most of the stuff posted on here is classed as banter by most, but when it comes to thugs trying to batter down campaign offices who have one woman in them, then that's depressing.

A woman in the SNP Office in Glasgow scared and frightened by a gang of Unionist thugs, thought to be the dregs of an Orange march.

I commend your blind faith in your party/leader but even you must concede that when the leader of the Labour party is taken in through a side entrance to avoid a few hecklers in glasgow, whilst I sat at Costa coffee in Musselburgh talking to the FM (with a few hecklers), then Labour really have lost the plot.

Miliband speaks to organised sanitised events whilst the FM walks the streets of Scotland talking to the people.

[bawheid]

Do you know what else is desperate bawheid?

I posted this yesterday but not one SNP supporter has found the nerve to come on and refute it, defend it or deny it.

What an embarrassment.

Oh Mibbes, we really should stick to agreeing about the Hibees!

The yes campaign and subsequent surge in support for the SNP has been a bit of a political movement. It's understandable if not palatable that a few dafties will take things too far. But there are clowns on all sides.

However, it's not the 'cybernats' or Murdoch or Souter that's losing Scottish Labour this election. It's this unique set of circumstances where Miliband is caught between a rock and a hard place over Scotland.

It's ordinary Scottish people that have deserted Labour for the SNP. Focusing on a few loonies won't help those folk come back.

[Just Alf]

This from a blog I read is pretty much on the money......

"One of the highlights of the referendum campaign was the wellspring of progressive and radical ideas that came forth from a variety of people, organisations and groups.

Despite being painted as backwards, tartan-obsessed, haggis-chasing, kilt-wearing hillbillies, many Scots voted Yes as a jump-off point for a fairer, more prosperous country. Despite the fact a No vote was delivered, those beliefs in a better future, in a fairer society, they don't just fade away. They don't vanish. They have endured and have even been strengthened by the referendum defeat.

And yes, the SNP and wider post-Yes movement has it's fair share of zoomers and idiots but doesn't every movement on the face of the Earth? Human beings are human beings, after all. Yet the majority of the Scottish media focus on this minority of numpties – conveniently ignoring the unionist parties' own, some of whom are prominent party members and spokespeople - as if they are the model citizens every Yes voter wants to live up to.

It is disengenous at best and damn right unprofessional. But what else have we come to expect? Idiots don't negate the wider message but throwing mud and cheap photo-ops seems to be all the unionist parties have to offer."

[Moulin Yarns]

In 2003 the SNP manifesto carried a commitment to re-regulate the bus network. This was re-affirmed at their conference in 2006.

In March 2007 Brian Souter gave them £500,000.

In April 2007 their new manifesto came out and re-regulation had disappeared.

You might say it was coincidence but your party thought differently (https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/news/greens-back-re-regulation-of-buses/) :wink:


The Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 provides a framework which allows local transport authorities to enhance the provision of local bus services. The Act provides a toolkit of options including Quality Partnerships, Quality Contracts, provision of information about local bus services and joint ticketing schemes.

In other words, it is on statute so no need to be in a manifesto. Local transport authorities is the local authorities.

a 2013 bill introduced by Iain Gray - A proposal for a Bill to provide transportauthorities with greater powers to set servicelevels for local bus services, including a power togroup profitable routes with non-profitable routesbefore they are put out to tender with operators.

I don't have time to check what happened to it, but I'm sure you will come back to tell me the SNP voted it down. :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

It's understandable that people will make the Murdoch /Souter argument, but it's spurious.

I'm not going to allow 2 people who I don't particularly like to decide which political party I can vote for.

If Souter decided to back the Labour Party, I doubt many Labour people would switch their allegiance as a result.

[Hibby Bairn]

I'm sure you can cope without listening to any SNP supporters having a go at you:greengrin

And I'm sure most of the stuff posted on here is classed as banter by most, but when it comes to thugs trying to batter down campaign offices who have one woman in them, then that's depressing.

A woman in the SNP Office in Glasgow scared and frightened by a gang of Unionist thugs, thought to be the dregs of an Orange march.

I commend your blind faith in your party/leader but even you must concede that when the leader of the Labour party is taken in through a side entrance to avoid a few hecklers in glasgow, whilst I sat at Costa coffee in Musselburgh talking to the FM (with a few hecklers), then Labour really have lost the plot.

Miliband speaks to organised sanitised events whilst the FM walks the streets of Scotland talking to the people.

What a very good post. Simple people oriented politics and politicians. I reckon Sturgeon has inspired a further surge in SNP support because she appears honest and closer to real people.

[DaveF]

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like?

Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more?

Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts?

Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax?

Somebody who will abolish nondom status?

Is that what you mean?

But like Cameron and co, he'll still hand out peerages to the boys who donate \ raise millions to the Labour party won't he?

[Moulin Yarns]

I've been out canvassing round the doors this morning, good chat with some folks, all SNP but will be Green second voters next year. Had a laugh with my local SNP councillor as we approached the same door.

[steakbake]

It's understandable that people will make the Murdoch /Souter argument, but it's spurious.

I'm not going to allow 2 people who I don't particularly like to decide which political party I can vote for.

If Souter decided to back the Labour Party, I doubt many Labour people would switch their allegiance as a result.

Some of the folk who have ploughed money into Labour are shameful.

War criminal Blair wanted to give Labour candidates £1,200 each: I wouldn't take his money and quite a few people turned it down.

With Soutar, yes, pretty abominable views but you know, it was an SNP government who brought in equal marriage - so clearly, unlike many cases with the Tories/Labour, it's not like his cash has brought influence on their policies.

Equally as spurious is the dated and actually incorrect assertion that the SNP brought about Thatcher. I'm sure it was a Labour leader this week who said he'd rather have a Tory government than find a deal with the SNP.

What a complete and utter shambles. Really hope Thursday night brings the electoral slaughter the polls are predicting.

[--------]

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like?

Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more?

Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts?

Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax?

Somebody who will abolish nondom status?

Is that what you mean?



You seriously suggesting that all this will happen if Milliband gets elected?

Aye, right.

[marinello59]

I'm sure you can cope without listening to any SNP supporters having a go at you:greengrin

And I'm sure most of the stuff posted on here is classed as banter by most, but when it comes to thugs trying to batter down campaign offices who have one woman in them, then that's depressing.

A woman in the SNP Office in Glasgow scared and frightened by a gang of Unionist thugs, thought to be the dregs of an Orange march.

I commend your blind faith in your party/leader but even you must concede that when the leader of the Labour party is taken in through a side entrance to avoid a few hecklers in glasgow, whilst I sat at Costa coffee in Musselburgh talking to the FM (with a few hecklers), then Labour really have lost the plot.

Miliband speaks to organised sanitised events whilst the FM walks the streets of Scotland talking to the people.

Your last sentence hits the nail firmly on the head for me.

[Stranraer]

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like?

Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more?

Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts?

Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax?

Somebody who will abolish nondom status?

Is that what you mean?

:top marksthis is exactly it. The SNP's anti-austerity measures might wind them a few votes but the IFS has said their plans would actually lead to a longer period of austerity than Labour. The debate in Scotland is almost one of "if you don't agree with the SNP then you are a right wing nutter who hates Scotland" < that hasn't been said but I know that's what nationalists are getting act. It's SNP supporters on here who are part of the reason I won't be voting for them.

[Mibbes Aye]

You seriously suggesting that all this will happen if Milliband gets elected?

Aye, right.

Let's find out.

I don't fancy the alternatives.

[DaveF]

:top marksthis is exactly it. The SNP's anti-austerity measures might wind them a few votes but the IFS has said their plans would actually lead to a longer period of austerity than Labour. The debate in Scotland is almost one of "if you don't agree with the SNP then you are a right wing nutter who hates Scotland" < that hasn't been said but I know that's what nationalists are getting act. It's SNP supporters on here who are part of the reason I won't be voting for them.

Who are you backing now? You seem to change your mind more often than I change my underwear.

[Mibbes Aye]

Who are you backing now? You seem to change your mind more often than I change my underwear.

What's your problem with that?

It used to be called democracy :wink:

[HiBremian]

:top marksthis is exactly it. The SNP's anti-austerity measures might wind them a few votes but the IFS has said their plans would actually lead to a longer period of austerity than Labour. The debate in Scotland is almost one of "if you don't agree with the SNP then you are a right wing nutter who hates Scotland" < that hasn't been said but I know that's what nationalists are getting act. It's SNP supporters on here who are part of the reason I won't be voting for them.

Why do you buy this austerity-obsession crap? Has the MSM and Westminster suitably drugged you or what?

When was the national debt as a % of GDP much much higher than it is now? Well for most of the 40's, 50's and 60's. 200% during the post-war Labour Gvt. We only just paid these debts off in 2001. Are you seriously suggesting that we shouldn't have created the NHS and the Welfare State and stuck with the Workhouse, just so that we "lived within our means"?

[heretoday]

I hope that after the election Nicola continues to devote as much time to the Scottish Parliament as before. It sounds increasingly as though her main focus will be on events at Westminster.

[Mibbes Aye]

Why do you buy this austerity-obsession crap? Has the MSM and Westminster suitably drugged you or what?

When was the national debt as a % of GDP much much higher than it is now? Well for most of the 40's, 50's and 60's. 200% during the post-war Labour Gvt. We only just paid these debts off in 2001. Are you seriously suggesting that we shouldn't have created the NHS and the Welfare State and stuck with the Workhouse, just so that we "lived within our means"?

National debt has never been paid off. I think we've had it since the Napoleonic wars in the nineteenth century. We've certainly ran a massive debt since the Second World War, regardless of who was in power.

In 2001 we ran a surplus, that's all. Our overdraft was still there

Agree with you about the NHS etc. We were able to afford to create an NHS and a welfare state and a comprehensive education system and access to higher education etc etc. We did that, even though Labour and Tories ran a massive overdraft all those years.

People like me, maybe you too, benefitted from it. I contribute to our economy today off the back of that.

It's how it works. It could be better though and it's not David Cameron who will make that happen.

[Just Alf]

National debt has never been paid off. I think we've had it since the Napoleonic wars in the nineteenth century. We've certainly ran a massive debt since the Second World War, regardless of who was in power.

In 2001 we ran a surplus, that's all. Our overdraft was still there

Agree with you about the NHS etc. We were able to afford to create an NHS and a welfare state and a comprehensive education system and access to higher education etc etc. We did that, even though Labour and Tories ran a massive overdraft all those years.

People like me, maybe you too, benefitted from it. I contribute to our economy today off the back of that.

It's how it works. It could be better though and it's not David Cameron who will make that happen.


Totally agree with all of that...... I'm still voting SNP this time around tho! :wink:

[Flynn]

I don't know how the IFS have suddenly become this all-knowing, omnipotent economic shining light of truth. They are a neoliberal think tank and have their own agenda.

They must be like mystic meg. They know what the price of oil is going to be in 2016.

If we had voted yes last September the price of oil now would still be irrelevant as we'd still be in the transition and negotiations stage and still officially part of the UK.

Vote SNP

[DaveF]

What's your problem with that?

It used to be called democracy :wink:

I don't have any problem with it.

Are observations not allowed in your new labour world?

[Mibbes Aye]

I don't have any problem with it.

Are observations not allowed in your new labour world?

Fair enough. I wouldn't be giving someone a hard time for shifting their vote though, that's what it's all about.

I think it's okay for people to change their mind if they want :agree:

[DaveF]

I think it's okay for people to change their mind if they want :agree:

You won't be saying that when he tells you he's voting conservative :-)

[ronaldo7]

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like?

Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more?

Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts?

Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax?

Somebody who will abolish nondom status?

Is that what you mean?

A bit deja vous in this post mate, especially the zero hour contracts. I mention it because one of my family is on one, he got 4 hours work this week. I remember Tony Blair told us that he would get rid of these contracts in 1995...Yes 1995, 20 ****ing years ago. They're on the increase in Glasgow by the way:greengrin A Labour controlled council.

[Mibbes Aye]

You won't be saying that when he tells you he's voting conservative :-)

:greengrin

True though, he will be getting it tight :agree:

[HiBremian]

National debt has never been paid off. I think we've had it since the Napoleonic wars in the nineteenth century. We've certainly ran a massive debt since the Second World War, regardless of who was in power.

In 2001 we ran a surplus, that's all. Our overdraft was still there

Agree with you about the NHS etc. We were able to afford to create an NHS and a welfare state and a comprehensive education system and access to higher education etc etc. We did that, even though Labour and Tories ran a massive overdraft all those years.

People like me, maybe you too, benefitted from it. I contribute to our economy today off the back of that.

It's how it works. It could be better though and it's not David Cameron who will make that happen.

Agreed! But it was the big 1945 loans that Keynes negotiated (and died in the process) that were finally paid off by Blair.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/question-time-election-special-bbc-5615032#ICID=sharebar_twitter

[Hibbyradge]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153822592309447&set=gm.10153297697961255&type=1

[Mibbes Aye]

A bit deja vous in this post mate, especially the zero hour contracts. I mention it because one of my family is on one, he got 4 hours work this week. I remember Tony Blair told us that he would get rid of these contracts in 1995...Yes 1995, 20 ****ing years ago. They're on the increase in Glasgow by the way:greengrin A Labour controlled council.

You've had your promise.

If it's EM (on May 8 or whenever) then he's said what he will do. Judge him by his actions.

Question is, if it's not him it's David Cameron.

Salmond helped that last time by telling people to vote LibDem.

[ronaldo7]

You've had your promise.

If it's EM (on May 8 or whenever) then he's said what he will do. Judge him by his actions.

Question is, if it's not him it's David Cameron.

Salmond helped that last time by telling people to vote LibDem.

So the promise from your leader in 1995 wasn't worth the paper it was written on. What's to say this one's not just the same old, same old.

Maybe Nicola will keep him honest with a dose of SNP stem cells for his backbone eh.:wink:

[Peevemor]

You've had your promise.

...

Is a promise not the same as a "vow"? If so why should anyone in Scotland believe it?

[ronaldo7]

Question for all the Labour party members in here. Should Murphy go if he loses this election to the SNP?

[Mibbes Aye]

So the promise from your leader in 1995 wasn't worth the paper it was written on. What's to say this one's not just the same old, same old.

Maybe Nicola will keep him honest with a dose of SNP stem cells for his backbone eh.:wink:

1995?

Are you for real? That's twenty years ago

A lot of posters on here weren't even born then

For real? Blair wasn't even PM then and I've got no desire to check out whether your claim is accurate or bollocks.

I do know it's prehistoric.

Quick question, can you find me a post where I ask you to account for Gordon Wilson's statements as leader?

Up your game R7 and live in the present rather than decades ago :bitchy:

[Mibbes Aye]

Is a promise not the same as a "vow"? If so why should anyone in Scotland believe it?

Have you asked anyone in Scotland?

[Hibbyradge]

If anyone fancies a flutter...I have a horrible feeling that the Tories at 7/1 might pay.

I truly hope not, but 1992 and all that...

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/overall-majority

[JeMeSouviens]

National debt has never been paid off. I think we've had it since the Napoleonic wars in the nineteenth century.

Since King Billy and the Glorious Revolution.

We're taking out and paying off debt all the time, mostly as government bonds which we pay fixed interest on and are repaid on maturity. Total UK debt as a % of gdp is actually reasonably low by historical standards at 80%.

[ronaldo7]

1995?

Are you for real? That's twenty years ago

A lot of posters on here weren't even born then

For real? Blair wasn't even PM then and I've got no desire to check out whether your claim is accurate or bollocks.

I do know it's prehistoric.

Quick question, can you find me a post where I ask you to account for Gordon Wilson's statements as leader?

Up your game R7 and live in the present rather than decades ago :bitchy:

You're quite happy to tell people they've missed the point and you happily do the same.

The reason I mention Blair in 1995 is that he said he would end zero hour contacts, and when he came to power in 1997 it was hit into the long grass. 20 years on, people are still being stung by the Labour Lies.

As I said, a member of my family got 4 hours work this week.

If Blair and Labour had acted on their "Promise" back in those Prehistoric days, then some folk today might not have to go cap in hand to their family for hand outs.

You have been very vocal over the last few days on here, and more power to your fingers, however, please don't tell me not to look back on history and remember what your party have "Promised", and when they got into power, have deserted the things they "Promised".

I'll not bother to post a link as I'm sure you can find it somewhere.......Blair.......1995........Zero Hour Contracts.

[JeMeSouviens]

Latest Yougov, steady as she goes:

SNP 49 (n/c)
Lab 26 (+1)
Con 17 (n/c)
Lib 7 (+2)

[JeMeSouviens]

Question for Mibbes: how do you justify Scotland's disproportionate public spending vs rUK?

Doesn't solidarity with workers across the UK extend to giving them an equal share of the cash?

[ronaldo7]

If anyone fancies a flutter...I have a horrible feeling that the Tories at 7/1 might pay.

I truly hope not, but 1992 and all that...

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/overall-majority

I think the Tories will win England and it will be a bun fight to see if the progressives can get Miliband round the table. He might have a chance to do a deal with the SNP with Scottish Labour out of the way.

[Peevemor]

Question for all the Labour party members in here. Should Murphy go if he loses this election to the SNP?

More importantly, should he take his 12 mates with him?

14790

[Mibbes Aye]

Since King Billy and the Glorious Revolution.

We're taking out and paying off debt all the time, mostly as government bonds which we pay fixed interest on and are repaid on maturity. Total UK debt as a % of gdp is actually reasonably low by historical standards at 80%.

Happy to stand corrected.

Yet Gordon Brown and Ed Balls are blamed by the Tories for us ever being in debt?

You're right, so why don't folk say that?

[Mibbes Aye]

You're quite happy to tell people they've missed the point and you happily do the same.

The reason I mention Blair in 1995 is that he said he would end zero hour contacts, and when he came to power in 1997 it was hit into the long grass. 20 years on, people are still being stung by the Labour Lies.

As I said, a member of my family got 4 hours work this week.

If Blair and Labour had acted on their "Promise" back in those Prehistoric days, then some folk today might not have to go cap in hand to their family for hand outs.

You have been very vocal over the last few days on here, and more power to your fingers, however, please don't tell me not to look back on history and remember what your party have "Promised", and when they got into power, have deserted the things they "Promised".

I'll not bother to post a link as I'm sure you can find it somewhere.......Blair.......1995........Zero Hour Contracts.

You're criticising Blair for something you claimed happened twenty years ago.

Twenty years ago, really?

What has the SNP government done to fix it since then?

You said a family member got a four-hour job this week.

What do you expect done about that, who is in charge to fix it?

What government got elected at the last Holyrood election?

[ronaldo7]

You're criticising Blair for something you claimed happened twenty years ago.

Twenty years ago, really?

What has the SNP government done to fix it since then?

You said a family member got a four-hour job this week.

What do you expect done about that, who is in charge to fix it?

What government got elected at the last Holyrood election?

:rotflmao::rotflmao:I'll leave you to your rants until after Thursday. You must have seen the postal vote results eh:greengrin

I've heard of broad brushing but you're spraying everything in sight.

Have a good week mate:aok:

[Peevemor]

Have you asked anyone in Scotland?

I actually know the feeling and opinions of quite a lot of people in Scotland, and better than the Labour party by the look of things. Again, after the vow farce, why should the Scots take any promise emanating from Westminster at face value?

[Chibs]

You're criticising Blair for something you claimed happened twenty years ago.

Twenty years ago, really?

What has the SNP government done to fix it since then?

You said a family member got a four-hour job this week.

What do you expect done about that, who is in charge to fix it?

What government got elected at the last Holyrood election?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE

[Hibbyradge]

I actually know the feeling and opinions of quite a lot of people in Scotland, and better than the Labour party by the look of things. Again, after the vow farce, why should the Scots take any promise emanating from Westminster at face value?

What was the vow farce?

[Peevemor]

What was the vow farce?

For example http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-referendum-results-tories-call-on-pm-to-renege-on-reckless-funding-vow-9745078.html

http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/nov/smith-new-powers-welcome-fall-short-vow

[Hibbyradge]

For example http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-referendum-results-tories-call-on-pm-to-renege-on-reckless-funding-vow-9745078.html

http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/nov/smith-new-powers-welcome-fall-short-vow

I know.

Not really a farce though.

I expected a much bigger betrayal that didn't really happen.

[Just Alf]

You're criticising Blair for something you claimed happened twenty years ago.

Twenty years ago, really?

Thing is MA, people keep bringing up how the SNP helped herald the start of the Thatcher era ..... And THAT was a while ago! :wink:

[ronaldo7]

Harriet Harman just lied on Murnahan when she said people in Scotland wouldn't have to pay for the bedroom tax anymore. Either her brief is so limited in knowledge about Scotland, or it was just a plain Lie.

The Scottish Government mitigate the costs of the bedroom tax in Scotland, and I would have thought the Deputy Labour Leader should have known it.

[Hibby Bairn]

Watched Marr this morning. Pretty poor stuff all round to be honest but thought Clegg did pretty well out of it.

Farage, despite what many say about UKIP etc. at least knows what he stands for and can articulate it plainly.

Yvette Cooper was just awful. No answers to any questions, soundbites galore and (for me anyway) just irritating to listen to.

The 3 on the couch at the end just summed up everything wrong with how politicians behave and how people view them. Just squabbling away trying to point score and in the end no one could hear what they were saying or shouting to each other. Not well "chaired' by Marr though and nor were the individual 121 interviews.

[BroxburnHibee]

I don't think Andrew Marr is ready for this yet.

[ronaldo7]

Watched Marr this morning. Pretty poor stuff all round to be honest but thought Clegg did pretty well out of it.

Farage, despite what many say about UKIP etc. at least knows what he stands for and can articulate it plainly.

Yvette Cooper was just awful. No answers to any questions, soundbites galore and (for me anyway) just irritating to listen to.

The 3 on the couch at the end just summed up everything wrong with how politicians behave and how people view them. Just squabbling away trying to point score and in the end no one could hear what they were saying or shouting to each other. Not well "chaired' by Marr though and nor were the individual 121 interviews.

:agree:

[Peevemor]

I know.



Not really a farce though.



I expected a much bigger betrayal that didn't really happen.


http://peterabell.blogspot.com.es/2015/05/a-despicable-tactic.html?spref=tw&m=1

[johnbc70]

http://peterabell.blogspot.com.es/2015/05/a-despicable-tactic.html?spref=tw&m=1

I remember this at the time, still waiting to see the evidence that anyone went round knocking on doors telling OAPs they would not get their pension. Ignore the fact that they would have to have done it to tens of thousands to make any kind of difference.

[Hibrandenburg]

I remember this at the time, still waiting to see the evidence that anyone went round knocking on doors telling OAPs they would not get their pension. Ignore the fact that they would have to have done it to tens of thousands to make any kind of difference.

There's a few folks on here said that's exactly what happened to their parents/grandparents. Not sure if that counts as evidence but there probably isn't any cctv if that's what you're looking for?

[johnbc70]

There's a few folks on here said that's exactly what happened to their parents/grandparents. Not sure if that counts as evidence but there probably isn't any cctv if that's what you're looking for?

You not think if it went on to the scale where it actually made any difference it would be in the open? Surely the papers like the Sun would have had a field day with a story like that. No CCTV required just some other evidence than a few people on the internet.

[Peevemor]

You not think if it went on to the scale where it actually made any difference it would be in the open? Surely the papers like the Sun would have had a field day with a story like that. No CCTV required just some other evidence than a few people on the internet.

If it happened at all, on any scale, then it's scandalous.

And what about the letter from Murphy shown in the blog. It's OK for him to make stuff up to suit his propaganda?

[johnbc70]

If it happened at all, on any scale, then it's scandalous.

Idiots on both sides did stupid things, but to make out it happened on a scale where it made any difference is just wrong. Unless of course there is evidence to the contrary.

[johnbc70]

If it happened at all, on any scale, then it's scandalous.

And what about the letter from Murphy shown in the blog. It's OK for him to make stuff up to suit his propaganda?

What is he actually making up? I am no fan of Murphy so nothing to gain by defending him but is it not all subjective? If we leave the UK we leave the UK pension system and move to a Scottish pension system would we not. Yes he has some gloom and doom predictions but what's the difference between that and the positive type comments from SNP who say everything will be rosy. No one can predict the future but everyone is allowed an opinion, you may not agree with it but that's his right.

[Peevemor]

What is he actually making up? I am no fan of Murphy so nothing to gain by defending him but is it not all subjective? If we leave the UK we leave the UK pension system and move to a Scottish pension system would we not. Yes he has some gloom and doom predictions but what's the difference between that and the positive type comments from SNP who say everything will be rosy. No one can predict the future but everyone is allowed an opinion, you may not agree with it but that's his right.

More desperate scaremongering from Jimbo. The letter was addressed to pensioners. Their pensions are 'owed' to them by the UK treasury, even in the event of full fiscal autonomy (or even independence) this wouldn't change, therefore his letter is based on a false premis and serves no purpose other than to try (again) to scare the elderly into voting against the SNP.

[marinello59]

I remember this at the time, still waiting to see the evidence that anyone went round knocking on doors telling OAPs they would not get their pension. Ignore the fact that they would have to have done it to tens of thousands to make any kind of difference.

It was nonsense at the time and it still is. All part of the narrative that some Yes supporters like to run with about No voters being incapable of thinking for themselves.

[CropleyWasGod]

If, as predicted, lots of Labour MPs lose their seats in Scotland this week, will they then be looking for seats at Holyrood next year?

It's long vexed me that Labour,and LibDem, politicians see Westminster as the top job, and Holyrood as second rate. In that light, having some "better" candidates in the Holyrood election next year might actually help raise the standard of debate.

[Peevemor]

It was nonsense at the time and it still is. All part of the narrative that some Yes supporters like to run with about No voters being incapable of thinking for themselves.


So what do you think if Murphy's letter? Is that part of some nonsensical nationalist narrative?

[johnbc70]

More desperate scaremongering from Jimbo. The letter was addressed to pensioners. Their pensions are 'owed' to them by the UK treasury, even in the event of full fiscal autonomy (or even independence) this wouldn't change, therefore his letter is based on a false premis and serves no purpose other than to try (again) to scare the elderly into voting against the SNP.

But he is not actually making anything up is he? The SNP stated that any Scottish Government would take on its share of pension liabilities in the event of an independent Scotland. What if for whatever reason they had problems meeting those liabilities. Again nobody can predict the future, one side says it will all be fine, another says it won't be.

[marinello59]

So what do you think if Murphy's letter? Is that part of some nonsensical nationalist narrative?

Nope. I think he has done what politicians of every party are doing in this election and taking their opponents words and spinning it in the most negative way possible. It's dirty politics which the vast majority of people will easily see through. It's a lot easier in Murphy's case, he's not very good at it.

[Peevemor]

But he is not actually making anything up is he? The SNP stated that any Scottish Government would take on its share of pension liabilities in the event of an independent Scotland. What if for whatever reason they had problems meeting those liabilities. Again nobody can predict the future, one side says it will all be fine, another says it won't be.

What does that have to do with the General Election?

[marinello59]

What does that have to do with the General Election?

Nothing which is why Murphy's assumption that the electorate are too stupid to think things through themselves will fail. It's quite sad really seeing how far labour have fallen.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Siliband now trying to reinvent himself as moses

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03289/miliband-858_3289991b.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03289/miliband-election-_3289990b.jpg


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32573812

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/03/ed-miliband-pledge-stone_n_7198436.html


all we need now is a photo of murphy on his crate

[Hiber-nation]

Nicola looked absolutely knackered in that debate but not much pressure was put on her. I'm glad the talking's nearly over and I can't wait to put my X in the George Kerevan SNP box :aok:

[Just Alf]

But he is not actually making anything up is he? The SNP stated that any Scottish Government would take on its share of pension liabilities in the event of an independent Scotland. What if for whatever reason they had problems meeting those liabilities. Again nobody can predict the future, one side says it will all be fine, another says it won't be.

Not sure why this is being discussed again? (Not aimed at you JBC, 'onest! :agree: )

my in laws did get door stepped and told they'd lose their pensions in the event of independence, One of them was always going to be a no, been a labour voter forever come hell or high water, the other was defo heading towards a yes but the pension was the clincher. I imagine the canvassers went to more than one door in the area and from the chat at the time there was reports from all over of similar, probably related to that letter.

Re the bit I've quoted above, they did indeed say that but remember that could only ever have impacted on new pensions and those paying into pensions just now but only from the point of actual independence, existing pensioners would have been totally unaffected.

Anyways... Back to THIS election, did anyone listen to the radio debates tonight, just heard a about 60 secs in passing and it sounded just all shouty! :-(

[JimBHibees]

I remember this at the time, still waiting to see the evidence that anyone went round knocking on doors telling OAPs they would not get their pension. Ignore the fact that they would have to have done it to tens of thousands to make any kind of difference.

I definitely got a pamphlet through the door from Labour during the referendum saying Jack and Jeannie are voting no because they are scared they wouldn't get their pension if Scotland was independent. The level of fear and scaremongering during that campaign was off the radar to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

[snooky]

I remember this at the time, still waiting to see the evidence that anyone went round knocking on doors telling OAPs they would not get their pension. Ignore the fact that they would have to have done it to tens of thousands to make any kind of difference.

TBH, if any canvasser said that to just one OAP it would still be just as despicable. Numbers don't come in to it.

Disgraceful if true - and just as disgraceful if the story was made up, I should add.

[RyeSloan]

What, like somebody who will stand up to vested interests, the energy companies, Murdoch and the like? Somebody who will tax the wealthiest more? Somebody who will take action against zero-hour contracts? Somebody who will pay for more nurses and midwives through a mansion tax? Somebody who will abolish nondom status? Is that what you mean?

It's a bit weird that I see people wishing for left of centre labour to reappear yet they have Miliband promising rent controls, energy price caps, 50% tax rates etc etc and yet no one seems to notice. He has even promised to over turn private land rules and confiscate land from developers!

Clearly these types of policies are firmly from the left and while obviously I'll find them rather ridiculous, dangerous and self defeating I would have thought the many left leaning folk on .net would have been lapping up such promises of central government action.

[marinello59]

It's a bit weird that I see people wishing for left of centre labour to reappear yet they have Miliband promising rent controls, energy price caps, 50% tax rates etc etc and yet no one seems to notice. He has even promised to over turn private land rules and confiscate land from developers!

Clearly these types of policies are firmly from the left and while obviously I'll find them rather ridiculous, dangerous and self defeating I would have thought the many left leaning folk on .net would have been lapping up such promises of central government action.

I think the problem is that some SNP supporters are totally blinded by hatred of Labour and will trash absolutely everything they say. Nicola Sturgeon obviously sees something she can work with though.

[DaveF]

I think the problem is that some SNP supporters are totally blinded by hatred of Labour and will trash absolutely everything they say.

You can apply that logic to very many Labour supporters and politicians too.

[marinello59]

You can apply that logic to very many Labour supporters and politicians too.

Of course you can. The inter party hatred is thoroughly depressing and counter productive.

[Moulin Yarns]

Of course you can. The inter party hatred is thoroughly depressing and counter productive.

Had a great chat with my local SNP councillor while out leafleting on Saturday. Had a good chat which will continue on Thursday. Not all parties hate each other.

[marinello59]

Had a great chat with my local SNP councillor while out leafleting on Saturday. Had a good chat which will continue on Thursday. Not all parties hate each other.

True. They only hate the ones that are a genuine threat to them. Everyone loves the Greens. :greengrin

[Beefster]

Another Labour event in Scotland descends into a rammy because of some protesters. I fear that many more folk need a ride than I first suspected was the case.

[Moulin Yarns]

True. They only hate the ones that are a genuine threat to them. Everyone loves the Greens. :greengrin

Can't disagree with that. Not met any Labour or Lib dems out campaigning, but the SNP and Tories have been wishing us luck. And yes, not a threat to any of the main parties due to the FPTP system. The aim is for 5% vote to keep the deposit this year, get as many second votes next year, world domination can wait a wee while longer, as long as there is still a world left to be dominated!! :wink:

[DaveF]

Another Labour event in Scotland descends into a rammy because of some protesters. I fear that many more folk need a ride than I first suspected was the case.

Just caught a wee bit of it on the telly and it's all a bit silly. Don't see why whoever it was feels the need to be shouting at Murphy or anyone for that matter.

Also saw Eddie Izzard in full make up. Was at the same thing?

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't disagree with that. Not met any Labour or Lib dems out campaigning, but the SNP and Tories have been wishing us luck. And yes, not a threat to any of the main parties due to the FPTP system. The aim is for 5% vote to keep the deposit this year, get as many second votes next year, world domination can wait a wee while longer, as long as there is still a world left to be dominated!! :wink:

What's the Greens policy on leafleting houses?

I've been so p'd off with the excess of paper through my door (the Lib Dems being the worst offenders), that I've put up a note on my door saying that I don't want any more. I've even added a wee note that "the waste of resources has helped me make up my mind" :greengrin

It'll be interesting to see how many people can read......

[Stranraer]

Who are you backing now? You seem to change your mind more often than I change my underwear.

I backed the SNP and now I don't.

Behaviour like http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32581803 doesn't help

[Peevemor]

I backed the SNP and now I don't.

Behaviour like http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32581803 doesn't help


So are you going to stop supporting Hibs because some supporters are neds/idiots?

[DaveF]

I backed the SNP and now I don't.

Behaviour like http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32581803 doesn't help

Even though there appears to be little evidence that the demonstrators were snp supporters?

And I'm sure you heard the SNP condemn any such behaviour and say everyone had the right to be heard peacefully.

You can vote for who you choose but to cite a demo like this a reason for not voting for any party is flimsy at best.

[Stranraer]

So are you going to stop supporting Hibs because some supporters are neds/idiots?

Absolutely not. I will always support Hibs, I have looked at the SNP plans for the economy and therefore I will not be voting for them. Is that okay with you?

[Stranraer]

Even though there appears to be little evidence that the demonstrators were snp supporters?

And I'm sure you heard the SNP condemn any such behaviour and say everyone had the right to be heard peacefully.

You can vote for who you choose but to cite a demo like this a reason for not voting for any party is flimsy at best.

I said some of the behaviour of certain pro-indy campaigners hasn't helped but I am not voting SNP because of their economic plans which I think make little sense. End of.

[DaveF]

End of.

Ooooh, get you.

[Stranraer]

Ooooh, get you.

haha, I thought I'd put it in plain English. I'll be the only one in the Mozza household not voting SNP :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

What's the Greens policy on leafleting houses?

I've been so p'd off with the excess of paper through my door (the Lib Dems being the worst offenders), that I've put up a note on my door saying that I don't want any more. I've even added a wee note that "the waste of resources has helped me make up my mind" :greengrin

It'll be interesting to see how many people can read......

It depends on the local branch. Central HQ gave half the cost of deposit and a contribution towards publicity, the rest has had to be raised locally, so it is very targeted to areas where we think it is worth it. Because it is a huge rural constituency we have concentrated on Perth and 1600 doors were visited one Saturday. Elsewhere, I've been doing 300-400 leaflets locally. Also had a presence on the main streets in the towns, but it is difficult to be noticed if there are also SNP, Conservatives and Forward Together stands.

[JeMeSouviens]

It's a bit weird that I see people wishing for left of centre labour to reappear yet they have Miliband promising rent controls, energy price caps, 50% tax rates etc etc and yet no one seems to notice. He has even promised to over turn private land rules and confiscate land from developers!

Clearly these types of policies are firmly from the left and while obviously I'll find them rather ridiculous, dangerous and self defeating I would have thought the many left leaning folk on .net would have been lapping up such promises of central government action.

I think Milliband is a decent enough sort but his backroom team don't do him any favours. He comes across like he wouldn't blow his nose without consulting a focus group. Sibling rivalry is all very well but whoever thought it was a good idea for him to run for the leadership needs to have a serious word with themselves.

[Peevemor]

Absolutely not. I will always support Hibs, I have looked at the SNP plans for the economy and therefore I will not be voting for them. Is that okay with you?


Of course it is. :aok: I wish everyone thought things through properly then voted accordingly, whether i agree with them or not.

It's just that, for me, a crowd of people noising up a politician (rightly or wrongly), shouldn't be a reason for not supporting a particular party.

[JeMeSouviens]

Just did one of these policy match quiz thingys:

www.votematch.org

For me it comes out:

Green 88%
SNP 73%
Lab 73%
Lib 61%
Con 25%
UKIP 25%

So it's tactical SNP on Thurs and Green next year I think (or maybe SNP constituency, Green list, sorry Greens).

tbh, the only thing that puts me off voting Green is how much of a hypocrite I'd feel every time I go on an easyjet! :embarrass

[johnbc70]

To be fair to Morrissey he did state that the aggressive behaviour did not help and never said it was the sole reason for not voting SNP.

[marinello59]

Can't disagree with that. Not met any Labour or Lib dems out campaigning, but the SNP and Tories have been wishing us luck. And yes, not a threat to any of the main parties due to the FPTP system. The aim is for 5% vote to keep the deposit this year, get as many second votes next year, world domination can wait a wee while longer, as long as there is still a world left to be dominated!! :wink:

At the very least though you are forcing the other parties to look more seriously at green issues. And that is a pretty decent return in itself. Good luck on polling day. :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Just did one of these policy match quiz thingys:

www.votematch.org (http://www.votematch.org)

For me it comes out:

Green 88%
SNP 73%
Lab 73%
Lib 61%
Con 25%
UKIP 25%

So it's tactical SNP on Thurs and Green next year I think (or maybe SNP constituency, Green list, sorry Greens).

tbh, the only thing that puts me off voting Green is how much of a hypocrite I'd feel every time I go on an easyjet! :embarrass


Scottish elections will be interesting the way the second vote goes. Assuming the SNP surge continues, there is little point voting SNP as a second vote, so another party will be a more useful vote, hope more think the same way :thumbsup:

[marinello59]

I said some of the behaviour of certain pro-indy campaigners hasn't helped but I am not voting SNP because of their economic plans which I think make little sense. End of.

And I'm voting SNP because they are the only party with an economic plan that does make sense to me.

[CropleyWasGod]

At the very least though you are forcing the other parties to look more seriously at green issues. And that is a pretty decent return in itself. Good luck on polling day. :aok:

That is my main reason for voting Green.

If we compare the environmental policies of the "electable" parties now, with 10/20/30 years ago, they're very different. The big parties have recognised, in their cynical way, that there are votes in being environmentally aware, and have adopted many of the Green policies. It undercuts much of the Greens' electability, but their policies get on the agenda.

That's a victory in my book.

[marinello59]

To be fair to Morrissey he did state that the aggressive behaviour did not help and never said it was the sole reason for not voting SNP.

Mozza has shifted stance so many times I am expecting him to come out for the DUP before Thursday. :devil:

[CropleyWasGod]

It depends on the local branch. Central HQ gave half the cost of deposit and a contribution towards publicity, the rest has had to be raised locally, so it is very targeted to areas where we think it is worth it. Because it is a huge rural constituency we have concentrated on Perth and 1600 doors were visited one Saturday. Elsewhere, I've been doing 300-400 leaflets locally. Also had a presence on the main streets in the towns, but it is difficult to be noticed if there are also SNP, Conservatives and Forward Together stands.

I've had no leaflets from the Greens, which suggests you don't expect anything in this area.

However, you might pick up a few protest votes if you were to grab all the excess leaflets from the other parties and scribble "Dinny waste your vote or this leaflet....."

:greengrin

[snooky]

Aw FFS, here we go again. The Media stirring it up.
Check out the photo of the 'riot' in Glasgow.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-safety-of-the-town/

[JeMeSouviens]

Aw FFS, here we go again. The Media stirring it up.
Check out the photo of the 'riot' in Glasgow.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-safety-of-the-town/

Apparently 4 middle aged nutjobs calling themselves "Scottish Resistance" shouting at Murphy/Izzard and a handful of Labour activists. Pathetic (by all concerned).

[Stranraer]

And I'm voting SNP because they are the only party with an economic plan that does make sense to me.

:aok: that is absolutely fair enough mate, I didn't mean to discredit people for voting for them. We will agree to disagree - I didn't mean any harm by my comments :)