Ajax v Hibernian

[MacGruber]

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You’re contradicting yourself.

Will he start the better keeper or will he just go with Smith because he was our no.1 last season?

We only see friendly matches but Gray sees them every working day in training as well.

Tbf - I don't think that post was contradictory. They were saying Gray will start who he feels is the better keeper. There was just a caveat that if Gray feels at this point there is nothing between them and they are performing as good as each other he'll start with Smith as he finished last season because he won't feel he would have to change it yet.

I doubt that is the case though, think he'll have an idea now who he feels is the better keeper. We don't see them in training but Smith looked sluggish in the Ajax game. One post saying those shots were unsaveable, I would tend to agree apart from the 3rd and 4th but those were still great strikes - not like he's conceded any soft goals where you'd be asking what the keeper is doing. A better keeper may have pulled off saves with those but they'd have been top drawer saves.

Also think Salinger has benefited from the optics where Smith has conceded 5 against their better team with a foot on the gas and he has come in when they were far less potent and brought a younger team on and he's conceded one. Salinger still made some smart saves though and looked good (go against the grain that the effort he saved that he touched on to the bar was a good save - right at him and he got away with it)

[theonlywayisup]

I trust SDG to make the right decision.

One point to note is what a contrast from the discussion regarding goalkeepers around the time of the Aberdeen 3-3 game. Then it was select the goalkeeper that makes the fewest mistakes, and give Boric a chance.

Now, the feeling is that we've two good solid goalkeepers. Another example of Hibs doing the right thing.

[JimBHibees]

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Tbf - I don't think that post was contradictory. They were saying Gray will start who he feels is the better keeper. There was just a caveat that if Gray feels at this point there is nothing between them and they are performing as good as each other he'll start with Smith as he finished last season because he won't feel he would have to change it yet.

I doubt that is the case though, think he'll have an idea now who he feels is the better keeper. We don't see them in training but Smith looked sluggish in the Ajax game. One post saying those shots were unsaveable, I would tend to agree apart from the 3rd and 4th but those were still great strikes - not like he's conceded any soft goals where you'd be asking what the keeper is doing. A better keeper may have pulled off saves with those but they'd have been top drawer saves.

Also think Salinger has benefited from the optics where Smith has conceded 5 against their better team with a foot on the gas and he has come in when they were far less potent and brought a younger team on and he's conceded one. Salinger still made some smart saves though and looked good (go against the grain that the effort he saved that he touched on to the bar was a good save - right at him and he got away with it)

Agree think he was lucky with the bar one straight at him gets two hands on it and should have not been anywhere near the bar. Will leave Dave to decide based on training and games.

[Donegal Hibby]

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You’re contradicting yourself.

Will he start the better keeper or will he just go with Smith because he was our no.1 last season?

We only see friendly matches but Gray sees them every working day in training as well.

Not at all . Smith was our No. 1 last season , his stats were better than most keepers in the league with some standout performances . Gray will know this and again it will be up to Salinger to play better , out perform Smith . I think Smith has the gloves until the other keeper does better … honestly find some of the opinions on here about Smith quite baffling in some blame getting laid at his door for the game yesterday or his performances which were outstanding last season getting quoted as being ‘ irrelevant’ .

[Paulie Walnuts]

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Not at all . Smith was our No. 1 last season , his stats were better than most keepers in the league with some stand out performances . Gray will know this and again it will be up to Salinger to play better , out perform Smith . I think Smith has the gloves until the other keeper does better … honestly find some of the opinions on here about Smith quite baffling in some blame getting laid at his door for the game yesterday or his performances which were outstanding last season getting quoted as being ‘ irrelevant’ .

If Sallinger is a better keeper then his performances last season will absolutely be irrelevant.

He won’t be keeping the gloves because of his performances last season, he’ll either keep them cause Gray deems him better than Sallinger or he’ll lose them because he deems Sallinger better. What went on last season will have no bearing on who is our number 1 this season. It’ll be the best keeper who gets the gloves.

[Donegal Hibby]

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If Sallinger is a better keeper then his performances last season will absolutely be irrelevant.

He won’t be keeping the gloves because of his performances last season, he’ll either keep them cause Gray deems him better than Sallinger or he’ll lose them because he deems Sallinger better. What went on last season will have no bearing on who is our number 1 this season. It’ll be the best keeper who gets the gloves.

If Salinger is playing better/ out performing Smith then he will play . If Salinger isn’t out performing Smith or is on par with Smith then I think Gray will go with Smith as our No 1 again based on Gray knows how well Smith performed last season . The reason we are prepared to smash our transfer record in buying Triantis is because of the way he performed last season, his performances aren’t irrelevant !

[Paulie Walnuts]

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If Salinger is playing better/ out performing Smith then he will play . If Salinger isn’t out performing Smith or is on par with Smith then I think Gray will go with Smith as our No 1 again based on Gray knows how well Smith performed last season . The reason we are prepared to smash our transfer record in buying Triantis is because of the way he performed last season, his performances aren’t irrelevant !

As you’ve indicated in your first point, if Sallinger is out performing Smith then he’ll play. If Smith is outperforming him then it’ll be him that plays. Therefore what Smith done last season is irrelevant.

The only thing that’s going to be relevant is who looks better this season.

[bingo70]

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Not at all . Smith was our No. 1 last season , his stats were better than most keepers in the league with some standout performances . Gray will know this and again it will be up to Salinger to play better , out perform Smith . I think Smith has the gloves until the other keeper does better … honestly find some of the opinions on here about Smith quite baffling in some blame getting laid at his door for the game yesterday or his performances which were outstanding last season getting quoted as being ‘ irrelevant’ .

There were still a decent amount of mistakes from Smith last season despite him also make a lot of good saves. Some resulted in goals, some never.

He did a lot better than I was expecting after my initial impressions but overall it was an area that could be improved upon imo, I’m pleased we’ve looked for better and not just signed someone who we think is worse but cheaper to sit on the bench.

It’s a long season ahead, I’m sure both will be needed at times.

[Donegal Hibby]

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As you’ve indicated in your first point, if Sallinger is out performing Smith then he’ll play. If Smith is outperforming him then it’ll be him that plays. Therefore what Smith done last season is irrelevant.

The only thing that’s going to be relevant is who looks better this season.

If one is out performing the other then they’ll play but if the two of them are evenly matched then I think Gray will go with who he knows was consistently good with a save percentage above I think 70% which won’t make last season’s contribution Irrelevant at all .

As I keep saying Salinger will have to win the right to be No.1 by out performing Smith as he at this moment in time I suspect has the gloves and that wouldn’t have changed after yesterday’s match which an odd one is hinting at in it has.

[Paulie Walnuts]

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If one is out performing the other then they’ll play but if the two of them are evenly matched then I think Gray will go with who he knows was consistently good with a save percentage above I think 70% which won’t make last season’s contribution Irrelevant at all .

As I keep saying Salinger will have to win the right to be No.1 by out performing Smith as he at this moment in time I suspect has the gloves and that wouldn’t have changed after yesterday’s match which an odd one is hinting at in it has.

On the minuscule chance the two of them are evenly matched in all metrics, such as shot stopping, distribution, gathering crosses, how they are with the ball at their feet etc then yes, last season will potentially become relevant.

They’re not going to both be equally as good at every aspect of each others game though, so the decision won’t be based on last season. It’ll be based on who Gray deems better and IF he thinks they’re much of a muchness then it’ll be based on what he wants from his goalkeeper.

The exact same will be the case for every position. Thats football.

[Pretty Boy]

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There were still a decent amount of mistakes from Smith last season despite him also make a lot of good saves. Some resulted in goals, some never.

He did a lot better than I was expecting after my initial impressions but overall it was an area that could be improved upon imo, I’m pleased we’ve looked for better and not just signed someone who we think is worse but cheaper to sit on the bench.

It’s a long season ahead, I’m sure both will be needed at times.

I think if you take a couple of games at the end of last season alone you could point out a couple of Smith errors that he 'got away with'. Against Celtic we were 1-0 down but just starting to show a bit intent in the game. He let a cross slip right through his hands, goal and we are done. Against Rangers a crap kick out after about 30 seconds sees us 1-0 down. He went on to have a very good game that day but the mistake still cost us a goal.

Neither of those proved costly but they could have been. Gray, Mackay etc etc aren't just looking at the end result, they are seeing all these things and asking what areas we can improve in. Every keeper makes mistakes but you want the guy who makes the least between the sticks. Lasts season that was Smith but We have brought in someone who has the pedigree and cost the fee that put him in the frame to be that guy.

I like Smith. I thought his story last season was a good one. He became a total cult hero, his save v St Mirren was one of the best I have seen live, he clearly loves playing for us and the whole story with his mum on Twitter was heartwarming in the cynical world of football. But there was scope for improvement in the position, either as a starter or as proper competition and I wasn't at all shocked that our first signing of the summer, excluding pre contracts, was a goalkeeper.

[jeffers]

We brought in Sallinger as our intended no 1 for next season.

[Donegal Hibby]

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On the minuscule chance the two of them are evenly matched in all metrics, such as shot stopping, distribution, gathering crosses, how they are with the ball at their feet etc then yes, last season will potentially become relevant.

They’re not going to both be equally as good at every aspect of each others game though, so the decision won’t be based on last season. It’ll be based on who Gray deems better and IF he thinks they’re much of a muchness then it’ll be based on what he wants from his goalkeeper.

The exact same will be the case for every position. Thats football.

As I see it Smith has the gloves and it’s for Sallinger to win them as things stand . If Salinger is out performing Smith then he will be No.1 . If the keepers are performing similar I suspect Gray will go with the one who has/ is the current No.1 . He stuck with Bursik and gave him every chance which is what I think he will do with Smith unless Salinger is out performing him . Anyhow may the best man win .. David Gray here speaking about the trip if some of you haven’t seen it yet…

https://x.com/HibernianFC/status/1941809610760872195

[superfurryhibby]

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As I see it Smith has the gloves and it’s for Sallinger to win them as things stand . If Salinger is out performing Smith then he will be No.1 . If the keepers are performing similar I suspect Gray will go with the one who has/ is the current No.1 . He stuck with Bursik and gave him every chance which is what I think he will do with Smith unless Salinger is out performing him . Anyhow may the best man win .. David Gray here speaking about the trip if some of you haven’t seen it yet…

https://x.com/HibernianFC/status/1941809610760872195

At the start of a new season, no one has the gloves . I hope Sallinger comes in and impresses. Smith did well enough last season, especially when expectations were pretty low.

Hibs aren't spending money on a keeper for no reason. Smith, as highlighted, has his fair share of errors. Still, good to have two keepers who appear decent fighting it out for a starting place.

[Donegal Hibby]

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At the start of a new season, no one has the gloves . I hope Sallinger comes in and impresses. Smith did well enough last season, especially when expectations were pretty low.

Hibs aren't spending money on a keeper for no reason. Smith, as highlighted, has his fair share of errors. Still, good to have two keepers who appear decent fighting it out for a starting place.

The two of them will be fighting it out and unless Salinger is better than Smith ( something we don’t know yet) then I think it’s possible Gray might stick with Smith who has been excellent on a consistent basis.He certainly stuck and give Bursik every chance..

We haven’t spent money on a keeper for no reason , we spent money on one to come in and challenge the one we have. The money we spent on one though doesn’t automatically guarantee that he’s just going to walk in and take over either, he have to earn that right..

As to Smiths mistakes/ errors that are getting highlighted I think all keepers do at some point make them and I doubt very much Salinger hasn’t went through his whole career so far without making any either ..

Thought it was a bit daft tbh in some righting off Smith to a degree after a preseason game against a superior team when he wasn’t at fault .I suppose that’s the nature of the beast though when a team loses in there always needs to be someone to blame.

[Hibernian Verse]

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If Sallinger is a better keeper then his performances last season will absolutely be irrelevant.

He won’t be keeping the gloves because of his performances last season, he’ll either keep them cause Gray deems him better than Sallinger or he’ll lose them because he deems Sallinger better. What went on last season will have no bearing on who is our number 1 this season. It’ll be the best keeper who gets the gloves.

I’m amazed this has required explaining to the nth degree.

[Gruff]

Donegal, Smith only became our no.1 half way through the season when it was clear Bursik was hopeless and Gray had to make the change and it might have been when Gray switched to a 3/5 back formation as well, although my mind might be playing tricks on me on this point?
Smith's save stats are 70% but if you go and look at Sallingers hes also above 70% for last season, different leagues but he still has to make the saves.

I would guess the keepers gloves are very much up in the air and no-one holds them right now. there is no no.1 and no.2, just both keepers vying for the gloves
The next round of matches will let us armchair managers see them in real time and when the time comes, Gray will make that decision.....although my own feeling is that it will be Sallinger who gets the nod

[superfurryhibby]

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The two of them will be fighting it out and unless Salinger is better than Smith ( something we don’t know yet) then I think it’s possible Gray might stick with Smith who has been excellent on a consistent basis.He certainly stuck and give Bursik every chance..

We haven’t spent money on a keeper for no reason , we spent money on one to come in and challenge the one we have. The money we spent on one though doesn’t automatically guarantee that he’s just going to walk in and take over either, he have to earn that right..

As to Smiths mistakes/ errors that are getting highlighted I think all keepers do at some point make them and I doubt very much Salinger hasn’t went through his whole career so far without making any either ..

Thought it was a bit daft tbh in some righting off Smith to a degree after a preseason game against a superior team when he wasn’t at fault .I suppose that’s the nature of the beast though when a team loses in there always needs to be someone to blame.

TBF, I haven't really read the Ajax game thread, so my views are based on this discussion only.

I think the better the keeper, the few the errors. They will all make mistakes, I pointed out Smith's tendency for an error because I've seen them unfold in games I've attended. I've no idea as to how frequent Sallinger's howlers will be, but hope for fewer

I never said anything about spending money guaranteeing a start in the side either. However, if we wanted back up only, it's fair to say there would have been plenty budget options. For me this is an indication that Gray/McKay/ Chief Scout feels there is an area where we need to strengthen.

I feel there's quite a leap from writing Smith off, to wanting Sallinger to be a better keeper though, that's probably a more accurate picture of the general consensus?

[Donegal Hibby]

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TBF, I haven't really read the Ajax game thread, so my views are based on this discussion only.

I think the better the keeper, the few the errors. They will all make mistakes, I pointed out Smith's tendency for an error because I've seen them unfold in games I've attended. I've no idea as to how frequent Sallinger's howlers will be, but hope for fewer

I never said anything about spending money guaranteeing a start in the side either. However, if we wanted back up only, it's fair to say there would have been plenty budget options. For me this is an indication that Gray/McKay/ Chief Scout feels there is an area where we need to strengthen.

I feel there's quite a leap from writing Smith off, to wanting Sallinger to be a better keeper though, that's probably a more accurate picture of the general consensus?

I think all keepers make mistakes , even the ones that are rated the best ones like in our league when Butland , Schmeichel did , even De Gea at Utd made more than a few and yet I use to frequently hear about him being one of the best in the world . The thing about a keeper making a mistake is they are more highlighted than an outfield player .

I know you never said it and I wasn’t hinting that you did so apologies if you thought I was implying you did though I have got the impression some think because we paid a fee that he will be No. 1 for this reason which won’t be the case at all ..

It was always an area we needed to strengthen because we only had one decent keeper along with a young one that’s probably not ready yet after Bursik left who Gray stuck by at the time even though he had a better one on the bench which might suggest that Gray believes in sticking with a player ..

Again I’m not saying you personally are writing off Smith though during/ after the Ajax game there were quite a few posts I think were in…. End of the Smiths got the gloves stuff today , Smiths having an absolute howler , I think Smith has cemented his No.2 position etc … lots more and there’s even a thread started now saying he didn’t have the best of afternoons..

If things were put into a bit of perspective in it was a pre-season game which is all about getting the players fitness levels up and considering we were playing a vastly superior team that went more or less full strength I do think some of the comments regarding our keeper are pretty baffling . Apart from a few kick outs that were poor I don’t think there was one goal that our keeper could have saved . I know a few mentioned he should have done better on the 3rd and 4th but that’s like me saying that maybe Salinger should have done better on the 6th or he got lucky with the shot that he put onto the bar in it would be unfair..

One our keepers has received criticism/ blame and one has been praised though the reality is both our keepers faced two totally different teams . If Sallinger had played in that first half I doubt very much he would have saved any either as they were all really well placed shots and Smith would probably have came out of it smelling of roses rather than than the villain he is in some’s eyes ..