Hamas attack on Israel

[The Tubs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it not the case that the civilian death toll in wars tends to be significantly higher than the number of combatants killed? I might be wrong on that, but my memory of studying World War Two at school was that around 70% of those who died were civilians. As you say, it's harder in Gaza to separate the Hamas militant death toll from the civilian one.

With Iranian support for Hamas likely to be significantly diluted in the wake of the last couple of weeks, Hamas should seriously consider releasing whatever hostages remain alive. Netanyahu will prolong this conflict for as long as he can to avoid an electoral reckoning in Israel, but if they can achieve their purported aim of freeing the remaining hostages there's less justification for the ongoing hostilities, especially if Iranian funding for Hamas dries up. As Pretty Boy suggested in an earlier post, a regime change in Iran and fresh elections in Israel would at least provide some sort of hope for a less volatile future situation across the region.

WWII is fairly well known for its genocides/mass atrocities. I dunno if other mechanical-age warfare has numbers similar to it.

[MKHIBEE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it not the case that the civilian death toll in wars tends to be significantly higher than the number of combatants killed? I might be wrong on that, but my memory of studying World War Two at school was that around 70% of those who died were civilians. As you say, it's harder in Gaza to separate the Hamas militant death toll from the civilian one.

With Iranian support for Hamas likely to be significantly diluted in the wake of the last couple of weeks, Hamas should seriously consider releasing whatever hostages remain alive. Netanyahu will prolong this conflict for as long as he can to avoid an electoral reckoning in Israel, but if they can achieve their purported aim of freeing the remaining hostages there's less justification for the ongoing hostilities, especially if Iranian funding for Hamas dries up. As Pretty Boy suggested in an earlier post, a regime change in inIran and fresh elections in Israel would at least provide some sort of hope for a less volatile future situation across the region.

Im not sure Iranian support for Hamas would be significantly reduced, it’s Israel and America doing the bombing. As for the hostages, Netanyahu has long shown that he finds the hostages expendable and will do nothing that would free them short of killing all Hamas operatives.

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Im not sure Iranian support for Hamas would be significantly reduced, it’s Israel and America doing the bombing. As for the hostages, Netanyahu has long shown that he finds the hostages expendable and will do nothing that would free them short of killing all Hamas operatives.

Yeh, they'd obviously still 'support' them as a proxy but Hamas relies on extensive funding and military aid from Iran and that might be in shorter supply now while Iran addresses problems closer to home.

[Moulin Yarns]

Near-daily Israeli massacres at food distribution sites have killed over 400 Palestinians in the past month alone. Survivors describe stepping over corpses to get their hands on a bag of flour: ‘What choice do we have?’

In the early hours of June 11, before sunrise, 19-year-old Hatem Shaldan and his brother Hamza, 23, went to wait for aid trucks near the Netzarim Corridor in the central Gaza Strip. They hoped to return with a bag of white flour for their family of five. Instead, Hamza returned with his younger brother’s body wrapped in a white burial shroud.*

The Shaldan family had lived virtually without food for nearly two months due to Israel’s blockade, crammed into a classroom-turned-shelter in eastern Gaza City. Their home, once nearby, was destroyed completely by an Israeli airstrike in January 2024.*

At around 1:30 a.m., the two brothers joined dozens of starving Palestinians on Al-Rashid Street along the shore upon hearing that trucks carrying flour would enter the Strip. Two hours later, they heard shouts of “The trucks are coming!” followed immediately by the sound of Israeli artillery shelling.*

Starving civilians gather in massive crowds, waiting for permission to approach. In many instances, Israeli troops have opened fire on the masses — and even during distribution itself — killing dozens as they try to collect a few kilos of flour or canned goods to bring home in what Palestinians have dubbed “The Hunger Games.”*

Can anyone defend this??

[Callum_62]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Near-daily Israeli massacres at food distribution sites have killed over 400 Palestinians in the past month alone. Survivors describe stepping over corpses to get their hands on a bag of flour: ‘What choice do we have?’

In the early hours of June 11, before sunrise, 19-year-old Hatem Shaldan and his brother Hamza, 23, went to wait for aid trucks near the Netzarim Corridor in the central Gaza Strip. They hoped to return with a bag of white flour for their family of five. Instead, Hamza returned with his younger brother’s body wrapped in a white burial shroud.*

The Shaldan family had lived virtually without food for nearly two months due to Israel’s blockade, crammed into a classroom-turned-shelter in eastern Gaza City. Their home, once nearby, was destroyed completely by an Israeli airstrike in January 2024.*

At around 1:30 a.m., the two brothers joined dozens of starving Palestinians on Al-Rashid Street along the shore upon hearing that trucks carrying flour would enter the Strip. Two hours later, they heard shouts of “The trucks are coming!” followed immediately by the sound of Israeli artillery shelling.*

Starving civilians gather in massive crowds, waiting for permission to approach. In many instances, Israeli troops have opened fire on the masses — and even during distribution itself — killing dozens as they try to collect a few kilos of flour or canned goods to bring home in what Palestinians have dubbed “The Hunger Games.”*

Can anyone defend this??

Unfortunately - yes

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[MKHIBEE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Near-daily Israeli massacres at food distribution sites have killed over 400 Palestinians in the past month alone. Survivors describe stepping over corpses to get their hands on a bag of flour: ‘What choice do we have?’

In the early hours of June 11, before sunrise, 19-year-old Hatem Shaldan and his brother Hamza, 23, went to wait for aid trucks near the Netzarim Corridor in the central Gaza Strip. They hoped to return with a bag of white flour for their family of five. Instead, Hamza returned with his younger brother’s body wrapped in a white burial shroud.*

The Shaldan family had lived virtually without food for nearly two months due to Israel’s blockade, crammed into a classroom-turned-shelter in eastern Gaza City. Their home, once nearby, was destroyed completely by an Israeli airstrike in January 2024.*

At around 1:30 a.m., the two brothers joined dozens of starving Palestinians on Al-Rashid Street along the shore upon hearing that trucks carrying flour would enter the Strip. Two hours later, they heard shouts of “The trucks are coming!” followed immediately by the sound of Israeli artillery shelling.*

Starving civilians gather in massive crowds, waiting for permission to approach. In many instances, Israeli troops have opened fire on the masses — and even during distribution itself — killing dozens as they try to collect a few kilos of flour or canned goods to bring home in what Palestinians have dubbed “The Hunger Games.”*

Can anyone defend this??

Well, you can proclaim that such acts are “intolerable” then continue to tolerate it by allowing arms sales to Israel.

[MKHIBEE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Near-daily Israeli massacres at food distribution sites have killed over 400 Palestinians in the past month alone. Survivors describe stepping over corpses to get their hands on a bag of flour: ‘What choice do we have?’

In the early hours of June 11, before sunrise, 19-year-old Hatem Shaldan and his brother Hamza, 23, went to wait for aid trucks near the Netzarim Corridor in the central Gaza Strip. They hoped to return with a bag of white flour for their family of five. Instead, Hamza returned with his younger brother’s body wrapped in a white burial shroud.*

The Shaldan family had lived virtually without food for nearly two months due to Israel’s blockade, crammed into a classroom-turned-shelter in eastern Gaza City. Their home, once nearby, was destroyed completely by an Israeli airstrike in January 2024.*

At around 1:30 a.m., the two brothers joined dozens of starving Palestinians on Al-Rashid Street along the shore upon hearing that trucks carrying flour would enter the Strip. Two hours later, they heard shouts of “The trucks are coming!” followed immediately by the sound of Israeli artillery shelling.*

Starving civilians gather in massive crowds, waiting for permission to approach. In many instances, Israeli troops have opened fire on the masses — and even during distribution itself — killing dozens as they try to collect a few kilos of flour or canned goods to bring home in what Palestinians have dubbed “The Hunger Games.”*

Can anyone defend this??

Well, you can proclaim that such acts are “intolerable” then continue to tolerate it by allowing arms sales to Israel.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The last part is an ideal outcome for ordinary Iranians. If the regime's downfall is a result of Israeli and US involvement it's perfect propaganda for the hardliners seeking to replace them. If it's internal it's the will of the people; unlikely to be a smooth transition but the preferable option to either the current regime remaining or some enforced puppet regime being put in place.

Netanyahu may well get his arse handed to him when the Israelis go to the polls (and while the Bennett Bloc are hardly progressive they don't seem totally ****ing insane so that's an improvement of sorts).

If we can avoid apocalypse in the coming days and weeks things could look a little bit different in the not too distant future.

(Insert optimist bordering on criminal naivety smilie here).

Snap election might be the way to go for 'Bibi' rather than wait until next year (think the next scheduled election is October 2026). His ratings have been boosted by the way Israel has masterminded the Iran attacks which have strong support among the Israeli electorate. No guarantee he'd win but if the Gaza conflict drags on until next year it will only erode his chances.

[Pretty Boy]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/25...ed-arms-firms/

Not sure how I feel about this one. The link seems pretty tenuous (and I'm no SNP fan boy by any stretch) but it's maybe a time when erring on the side of caution may have been better for optics.

[Ozyhibby]

https://bsky.app/profile/dindjarinsw.../3lsoln7jr4k2o

BBC cut the feed on Kneecap but put this guy on instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://bsky.app/profile/dindjarinsw.../3lsoln7jr4k2o

BBC cut the feed on Kneecap but put this guy on instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Watching Kneecap rip into Rod Stewart and describe him as 'older than Israel' was a nice bit of comic relief.

[DinkyTwo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://bsky.app/profile/dindjarinsw.../3lsoln7jr4k2o

BBC cut the feed on Kneecap but put this guy on instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bob Vylan is great. I've seen him at festivals a couple of times.

The more high profile people that speak out and bring publicity to this, the better.

Whilst "death to the IDF" may seem an extreme chant to start, it's nowhere near as extreme as shooting displaced civilians at food distribution drops.

Reported by Israel's longest running newspaper Haaretz

https://aurdip.org/en/its-a-killing-...anitarian-aid/
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/idf-soldie...125907856.html

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Bob Vylan is great. I've seen him at festivals a couple of times.

The more high profile people that speak out and bring publicity to this, the better.

Whilst "death to the IDF" may seem an extreme chant to start, it's nowhere near as extreme as shooting displaced civilians at food distribution drops.

Reported by Israel's longest running newspaper Haaretz

https://aurdip.org/en/its-a-killing-...anitarian-aid/
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/idf-soldie...125907856.html

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Glastonbury and the BBC should be on thin ice over that, not just the band. Makes a mockery of our already much maligned hate crime laws.

[DinkyTwo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Glastonbury and the BBC should be on thin ice over that, not just the band. Makes a mockery of our already much maligned hate crime laws.

It's shocking alright, I don't agree with the message. But I think I get the point, if that makes sense?

Here's an article by the BBC reporting on Gazans being killed by the Israeli military, in spaces where they're supposed to be receiving food rations:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwygezz3gx7o

How long will you turn a blind eye? Until they come for you?


Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

BBC still not put the kneecap set on iplayer. So much for free speech in the UK?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

BBC still not put the kneecap set on iplayer. So much for free speech in the UK?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or is it potentially hate speech?

I'm guessing the BBC have paused their plans to add the performance to iplayer after Lisa Nandy's Bob Vylan intervention last night. They've stated that they won't be making that performance available.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Bob Vylan is great. I've seen him at festivals a couple of times.

The more high profile people that speak out and bring publicity to this, the better.

Whilst "death to the IDF" may seem an extreme chant to start, it's nowhere near as extreme as shooting displaced civilians at food distribution drops.

Reported by Israel's longest running newspaper Haaretz

https://aurdip.org/en/its-a-killing-...anitarian-aid/
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/idf-soldie...125907856.html

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

No issue with that shows he is on the right side. Streetings comments wow develop a back bone for once

[Hibspur]

https://nypost.com/2025/06/28/world-...rike-idf-says/

Leading Hamas terrorist reported killed in air strike. Hopefully a step towards bringing the conflict to an end.

[Pretty Boy]

It's amazing how quickly a disinformation plan can be mobilised by the media and on social media.

The Daily Mail headline states a band led 'death to Israelis' chants. In quote marks. They didn't. Social media is awash with the usual suspects stating that people chanted 'kill the Jews' or 'kill all Israelis'. They didn't. You may argue it was implied but implying and actually saying aren't the same thing. There is quite possibly a debate to be had about the appropriateness of the chants about the IDF but let's have that debate, not a debate about something that didn't happen. As soon as you start inventing quotes that were never said then your argument isn't just diluted, it's void entirely because you are arguing from a standpoint that is based on a lie.

I don't think the aim is to have a serious debate though. It's about repeating the falsehood often enough that it becomes an accepted truth through a sort of osmosis. The same tactic as describing support for Palestinians as being support for Hamas. Sadly it works as well.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No issue with that shows he is on the right side. Streetings comments wow develop a back bone for once

Streeting's condemnation was spot on (as were his comments on the Israeli embassy incidentally). Even Glastonbury have come out and described Bob Vylan's actions as beyond the pale.

Considering a music festival was the scene of so much slaughter on October 7th,to use Glastonbury as a platform to call for the killing of Israeli soldiers is really crass.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

BBC still not put the kneecap set on iplayer. So much for free speech in the UK?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They've made heavily edited highlights of the set available just now.

[AgentDaleCooper]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Glastonbury and the BBC should be on thin ice over that, not just the band. Makes a mockery of our already much maligned hate crime laws.

that's quite a stretch. would it be a hate crime to wish death upon the Russian army? the IDF are for all intents and purposes a death squad in Gaza.

I'm not talking about whether the rhetoric is helpful or not - I wouldn't be shouting that on a stage - but I don't think it's a hate crime in any way shape or form, because people aren't wishing death upon the IDF because they are Jewish, it's because they are genocidal maniacs.

[Hibspur]

Glastonbury Festival 'appalled' by Bob Vylan IDF comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33514nryy1o


Don't think Bob Vylan will be getting invited back.

[MKHIBEE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

that's quite a stretch. would it be a hate crime to wish death upon the Russian army? the IDF are for all intents and purposes a death squad in Gaza.

I'm not talking about whether the rhetoric is helpful or not - I wouldn't be shouting that on a stage - but I don't think it's a hate crime in any way shape or form, because people aren't wishing death upon the IDF because they are Jewish, it's because they are genocidal maniacs.

Death to Hamas wouldn’t get you investigated.

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

that's quite a stretch. would it be a hate crime to wish death upon the Russian army? the IDF are for all intents and purposes a death squad in Gaza.

I'm not talking about whether the rhetoric is helpful or not - I wouldn't be shouting that on a stage - but I don't think it's a hate crime in any way shape or form, because people aren't wishing death upon the IDF because they are Jewish, it's because they are genocidal maniacs.

Or are they just carrying out their orders as armed services personnel? Military service is compulsory in Israel (for males and females). As it is in Russia for males.

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Or are they just carrying out their orders as armed services personnel? Military service is compulsory in Israel (for males and females). As it is in Russia for males.

...they are only following orders...

Where have I heard that before?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibspur]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Death to Hamas wouldn’t get you investigated.

Be interesting to see how you were received if you flew a banner stating that at Glastonbury. Or one that said 'In memory of the Nova festival victims'.

[silverhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Glastonbury and the BBC should be on thin ice over that, not just the band. Makes a mockery of our already much maligned hate crime laws.

If Glastonbury and BBC are on thin ice then where does that leave the SPFL and Sky Sports for promoting sectarianism on our tv every week in Scotland and tell us it’s a great atmosphere while folk are singing for the death of Catholics and Protestants.

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Be interesting to see how you were received if you flew a banner stating that at Glastonbury. Or one that said 'In memory of the Nova festival victims'.

There's one in memory of the Nova victims and the hostages:

https://x.com/AnneEstellaRock/status/1938884888528335334?t=0voJoeHHuWLkLImJ_jGcDg&s=19

I'm not aware of anything nefarious happening to the person who flew it, you bet your last pound it would be all over social media if it did.

[MKHIBEE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Be interesting to see how you were received if you flew a banner stating that at Glastonbury. Or one that said 'In memory of the Nova festival victims'.

Would that be those “ slaughtered by Hamas” or those “ killed by Israeli forces”.?