SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Ozyhibby]

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Because a lot of them, past and present are now understanding the voting system and how their votes in the past for SNP 1 and 2 were letting Westminster parties in. Labour were gaining seats on 24k votes when SNP were getting 0 on 135k votes. I think I'd rather have Scottish parties in Holyrood rather than Westminster parties, that sort of defeats the purpose of devolution doesn't it? I can't actually believe the number of Indy supporters who vote SNP that didn't understand the D'hondt system and voted 1 and 2, they simply thought SNP would steamroller the list seats with their big numbers when nothing could be further from the truth. Tories or Alba/ ISP/ Greens/I4I, Reform or Alba etc or Labour or Alba etc, I know what my choice will be if only just to send a message to Swinney and Westminster.

I’m not saying there is not a way to work the system, I’m saying you don’t do it by insulting the people you want to vote for you.


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[Andy Bee]

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I’m not saying there is not a way to work the system, I’m saying you don’t do it by insulting the people you want to vote for you.


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I've got bigger gripes than insulting a few Tories or Reformers to be bothered about as have you, I watched data analyst Stuart Donald last night on a podcast about the "Union Dividend". He went into figures on male mortality, did you know that out of all our peers i.e. rest of the UK, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Western Europe basically, Scotland has had the highest mortality rates of all, not since the SNP took over or Blair/Brown or Maggie Thatcher, figures can be shown dating back to 1890 although figures are sparse. From WW11 more detailed figures show Scotland with the highest levels of mortality in males apart from a brief period where Finland knocked us into second place, they identified the problems and rectified them because they can. Things need to change and sitting around waiting for Westminster to give us the nod is not going to cut it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjM2gixpTVA

[Hibs4185]

The SNP especially and maybe the other independence parties I think need to take the position that they merely exist as a vessel to gain independence so in the context above it shouldn’t matter whether you vote SNP or alba, you are merely voting for an outcome.

Of course the SNP are the biggest party and have governed for years so they are best placed to continue as the biggest party and the vote in the main vote.

I’m amazed how many people don’t vote for independence because they don’t like the SNP, some believe they’ll be stuck with the SNP forever.

One of the benefits of Labour, Tories and Lib Dem’s is that the unionist vote is spot between the three. We’re now getting into a world where the Yes vote is split between 2-3 parties.

Of the politicians cared about independence then surely they can put any differences aside until after 2026.

[Andy Bee]

Decent speech yesterday from John Swinney, the questions at the end are maybe more telling than the actual speech itself. I've no doubt there'll be an outcry about the lack of an Independence strategy but either inadvertently or on purpose he does a great job of identifying the flaws of being in the current Union.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2kmbk7hIaE

[Hibs4185]

Scottish government just lost their gender case at the Supreme Court regarding a definition of a woman

[jamie_1875]

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Scottish government just lost their gender case at the Supreme Court regarding a definition of a woman

Common sense prevails it seems and the women win the argument (a normal occurrence in my house)

This is not the end but perhaps the beginning of the end of this gender ideology that seemed to capture many, including the Scottish Public Sector. NHS Fife for example will need to review their policies around this as we have seen. And maybe people aren't transphobic after all for just sticking up for their legal rights.

[Ozyhibby]

Hopefully the end of this whole discussion.


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[Hiber-nation]

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Hopefully the end of this whole discussion.


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If only!!

[Bristolhibby]

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Common sense prevails it seems and the women win the argument (a normal occurrence in my house)

This is not the end but perhaps the beginning of the end of this gender ideology that seemed to capture many, including the Scottish Public Sector. NHS Fife for example will need to review their policies around this as we have seen. And maybe people aren't transphobic after all for just sticking up for their legal rights.

Worth quoting what the judge also said -

“the ruling should not be seen as victory of one side over another
Transgender people still have legal protection from discrimination”.

I agree, it’s been used as a side tracking blunt instrument for too long. Time for the SNP to get back to its single issue and secure Independence.

J

[jamie_1875]

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Hopefully the end of this whole discussion.


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Unlikely, it moves back into the political arena now it's been sorted by the law. All the public bodies in Scotland will need to drop their self ID policies and rewrite their policies regarding women and spaces. Expect more fall out from this.

[Ozyhibby]

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Unlikely, it moves back into the political arena now it's been sorted by the law. All the public bodies in Scotland will need to drop their self ID policies and rewrite their policies regarding women and spaces. Expect more fall out from this.

They will need to write policies that comply with the law. The SNP will encourage them to do this.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Where does this judgement leave men and women who have gone through reassignment, and have been living in their preferred identity for many years?

Asking for more than a few people.

[Ozyhibby]

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Where does this judgement leave men and women who have gone through reassignment, and have been living in their preferred identity for many years?

Asking for more than a few people.

In limbo I would imagine. It’s a court decision based on the law, not an act of parliament.
A parliament will have to debate what it wants to do now but I suspect it won’t be the Scottish one. The SNP leadership now won’t go there.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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In limbo I would imagine. It’s a court decision based on the law, not an act of parliament.
A parliament will have to debate what it wants to do now but I suspect it won’t be the Scottish one. The SNP leadership now won’t go there.


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AIUI, trans people are still protected under the EA. Does that mean there will be 4 genders?

My concern is that the judgement will be used as an excuse to encourage the nutters who see trans people as fair game.

[Ozyhibby]

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AIUI, trans people are still protected under the EA. Does that mean there will be 4 genders?

My concern is that the judgement will be used as an excuse to encourage the nutters who see trans people as fair game.

Suspect everywhere will need to build more facilities.


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[J-C]

So basically you cannot change your sex but you can change your physical identity and live as that sex under law. It really hasn't helped things as we still have many trans genders now living in a limbo state unsure of where they fit in.

[Bishop Hibee]

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AIUI, trans people are still protected under the EA. Does that mean there will be 4 genders?

My concern is that the judgement will be used as an excuse to encourage the nutters who see trans people as fair game.

No. Trans-women are biological men and trans-men are biological women. They are minorities who’s rights, like all minorities, will hopefully be protected by law.

[Moulin Yarns]

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AIUI, trans people are still protected under the EA. Does that mean there will be 4 genders?

My concern is that the judgement will be used as an excuse to encourage the nutters who see trans people as fair game.

Today's ruling is the opposite of 2 previous rulings by the ECHR. I think if we were still in the EU then we wouldn't be where we are.

As you say, trans people are now in the unenviable position of not knowing where they are welcome. Which public toilets they are allowed to use, which changing room is available to them? For the 0.1% of the population that they make up they most definitely are left in limbo.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Today's ruling is the opposite of 2 previous rulings by the ECHR. I think if we were still in the EU then we wouldn't be where we are.

As you say, trans people are now in the unenviable position of not knowing where they are welcome. Which public toilets they are allowed to use, which changing room is available to them? For the 0.1% of the population that they make up they most definitely are left in limbo.

The UK is still bound by the ECHR. It's not an EU thing.

[Moulin Yarns]

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The UK is still bound by the ECHR. It's not an EU thing.

So we have two courts giving opposing rulings!!!

[Pretty Boy]

It feels like not so much the end of the matter but rather a judgement that leaves as many questions as answers and opens up a whole new political arena.

I've always personally felt that the simplest way to define sex (rather than gender) is in a biological sense. But it's not a simple argument no matter how much people on both sides of the debate wish to make it so. It's always felt as though there isn't a solution that protects every single right of every single person and I'm not convinced this judgement does that but I can see how and why it was reached.

Some of the rhetoric on social media is horrible and whilst in my heart I think I agree with the judgement in the broadest sense, I do feel heart sorry for trans people who will feel exceptionally vulnerable right now. They don't need people crowing 'see I told you you were a ****ing man all along'. It's perfectly possible to argue a point, even argue something is 'common sense' without resorting to out and out nastiness and bullying.

[CropleyWasGod]

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No. Trans-women are biological men and trans-men are biological women. They are minorities who’s rights, like all minorities, will hopefully be protected by law.

I get that. I was probably meaning more in the minds of some people (eg the bigots and nutters,as well as those who simply don't know or understand) who might use the judgement to further marginalise trans people.

Does this judgement have an effect on the passports of trans people? Previously, with or without a GRC, they could use their acquired gender.

[blackpoolhibs]

Quite a few transvstites in Blackpool, but although i dont know the numbers, it does seem to me that there is an awful lot of outrage for a very small number of people?

[Kato]

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Quite a few transvstites in Blackpool, but although i dont know the numbers, it does seem to me that there is an awful lot of outrage for a very small number of people?

Exactly. Manufactured, amplified outrage is a theme running through all modern right wing parties.

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[lapsedhibee]

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AIUI, trans people are still protected under the EA. Does that mean there will be 4 genders?

My concern is that the judgement will be used as an excuse to encourage the nutters who see trans people as fair game.

Maybe 6?

Man, Trans Man with a GRC, Trans Man without a GRC, Woman, Trans Woman with a GRC, Trans Woman without a GRC.

[Ozyhibby]

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[Moulin Yarns]

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And the universal booze on train ban.

Well done the Scottish green party 😁

[Ozyhibby]

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And the universal booze on train ban.

Well done the Scottish green party

They should be selling it on the train to keep ticket prices down.


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[jamie_1875]

Everyone loves things to be cheaper but Transport Scotland said the pilot never achieved it's aims and had limited success when they scrapped peak rail fares not that long ago. Wonder what changed.

[Ozyhibby]

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Everyone loves things to be cheaper but Transport Scotland said the pilot never achieved it's aims and had limited success when they scrapped peak rail fares not that long ago. Wonder what changed.

An improvement in govt finances according to Swinney.


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