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  1. #10711
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Oh we're paying attention to what the Scottish Greens say now, are we? I thought they'd been written off as not worthy to be in Government.
    I made no comment, I just copied the link. I love a wee bit of post-divorce argy-bargy.

    Just for the record I take an interest in what all Parties say whether I agree with them or not. What can I say, I'm a geek.
    Last edited by marinello59; 13-08-2024 at 05:37 PM.
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  3. #10712
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    SNP confirm they will also means test the winter fuel payment. It was totally independent this year and was to be taken out of the Scottish budget

    The correct decision imo the triple lock increase will offset it anyway

  4. #10713
    @hibs.net private member Andy Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    SNP confirm they will also means test the winter fuel payment. It was totally independent this year and was to be taken out of the Scottish budget

    The correct decision imo the triple lock increase will offset it anyway
    I feel far more comfortable now this sounds all good. Erm, so what does the "triple lock" bring the pension up to in monetary terms? Pensioners on the basic pension can now chill (no pun intended)? or are they still 38% below the European average? Asking for a really old soon to be cold friend.

  5. #10714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bee View Post
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    I feel far more comfortable now this sounds all good. Erm, so what does the "triple lock" bring the pension up to in monetary terms? Pensioners on the basic pension can now chill (no pun intended)? or are they still 38% below the European average? Asking for a really old soon to be cold friend.
    Didn’t realise that was the case re pensions and comparisons with other countries? How depressing? Have they ever recovered from Brown raiding them

  6. #10715
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    We don't get 38% lower than the European average for a kick off.

    Some charts on Facebook might say this but they aren't like for like comparisons, some countries like France and Germany it depends a lot on your working pension. France state pension depends on what job you had and how much you put in their lowest is 3k per yea6 lower than ours but their highest is 8k more. I'd rather our system that the least off is better cared for.

    If your comparing us with somewhere like France you'd have to include workplace pensions into our total.

    A full fact article on how you can't really compare European pensions
    https://fullfact.org/online/uk-franc...on-comparison/



    27% of pensioners have £1 million in assets so why should it be universal. 80% own their own home, compared to 50% under 67. 10% of pensioners are in poverty which is terrible
    but that's compared to 24% working age and 30% of kids.

    At least the triple lock will offset the loss where as Labour not committing to child payment will hurt people much more.

    Pretty much all of the 20% of pensioners who don't own a home or have dependents or private pension will still get the payment. The state pension is going from £11,502.40 to 12,150 next year, take away housing costs from that and you'll be close to the equivalent of full time on the living wage. Although the average mean UK pensioners Income is £18,200

  7. #10716
    @hibs.net private member Andy Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    Didn’t realise that was the case re pensions and comparisons with other countries? How depressing? Have they ever recovered from Brown raiding them
    Ahh, I'm probably being dramatic Jim, once these kickass new interconnects are installed pensioners up here will benefit from all this new clean green plentiful supply of green energy, you know, the ones that will supply up to 7.5m homes south of Cumbria. You live south of Cumbria right?

  8. #10717
    @hibs.net private member Andy Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    We don't get 38% lower than the European average for a kick off.

    Some charts on Facebook might say this but they aren't like for like comparisons, some countries like France and Germany it depends a lot on your working pension. France state pension depends on what job you had and how much you put in their lowest is 3k per yea6 lower than ours but their highest is 8k more. I'd rather our system that the least off is better cared for.

    If your comparing us with somewhere like France you'd have to include workplace pensions into our total.

    A full fact article on how you can't really compare European pensions
    https://fullfact.org/online/uk-franc...on-comparison/



    27% of pensioners have £1 million in assets so why should it be universal. 80% own their own home, compared to 50% under 67. 10% of pensioners are in poverty which is terrible
    but that's compared to 24% working age and 30% of kids.

    At least the triple lock will offset the loss where as Labour not committing to child payment will hurt people much more.

    Pretty much all of the 20% of pensioners who don't own a home or have dependents or private pension will still get the payment. The state pension is going from £11,502.40 to 12,150 next year, take away housing costs from that and you'll be close to the equivalent of full time on the living wage. Although the average mean UK pensioners Income is £18,200
    The UK pension is ****, that's a fact. You can Google to your hearts content, spraf all the percentages you like but the UK pension is far far below the minimum wage. In an energy rich country we're going to have pensioners keeping the heating off because they can't afford it, you comfortable with that?

  9. #10718
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    The state pension is going from £11,502.40 to 12,150 next year, take away housing costs from that and you'll be close to the equivalent of full time on the living wage. Although the average mean UK pensioners Income is £18,200
    Why take away housing costs?
    Space to let

  10. #10719
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Oh we're paying attention to what the Scottish Greens say now, are we? I thought they'd been written off as not worthy to be in Government.
    Are we paying attention to SNP members ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn63rq8n2o
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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    He'll die before he's sold.

  11. #10720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bee View Post
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    The UK pension is ****, that's a fact. You can Google to your hearts content, spraf all the percentages you like but the UK pension is far far below the minimum wage. In an energy rich country we're going to have pensioners keeping the heating off because they can't afford it, you comfortable with that?
    My wife was talking to a friend, a widow whose husband was a safety officer on oil rigs, she was complaining that her state pension will take her into the 40% tax bracket. Now there's a problem many would like!
    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  12. #10721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Why take away housing costs?
    Because almost all who don't own there home will be getting the allowance still. 80% of pensioners own there home. The average pensioners in the uk takes home £18k per year and 80% don't have housing costs. The pension is going up £700 this year so the loss will be mitigated at least. Scot gov has a budget and they need to choose what to spend the available money on. As I say 10% of pensioners in poverty is terrible, but when 25% of working age are in poverty and 30% of kids I'd prefer the money there. A quarter of pensioners being millionaires says its ludicrous that it isn't means tested, SNP are spot on imo

  13. #10722
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Standard life take on the state pension

    Is the State Pension likely to be enough?

    Probably not. Even with the rise*coming in April,*a full new State Pension would be just over £11,500 a year. Keep in mind that the*Retirement Living Standards*suggest a single person would need £12,800 a year to cover just a ‘minimum’ retirement lifestyle.

    The reality is there’s a significant gap between what you get from the State Pension and*what you may actually need or want in retirement. The State Pension alone will only cover a very basic lifestyle and, because it only starts in your late 60s, won’t help to support you if you want to retire earlier. So it should only be a part of your overall retirement plan. Also bear in mind that it is subject to tax.


    Which consumers magazine says for 2025-26


    How much could the state pension be worth next year?

    Let’s presume the state pension increase is 5.7% (it may end up being more or less, depending on wage growth for May to July).*

    Currently, the full level of the new single-tier state pension is £221.20 a week or £11,502.40 a year. *

    If it were to rise by 5.7%, it would be worth £233.80 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £12,157.60 a year, which is a rise of over £655.

    Currently, the basic state pension is £169.50 a week in 2024-25 (£8,814 a year). This would increase to £179.15 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £9,315.80 per year – a rise of £501.


    £700 increase??
    Last edited by Moulin Yarns; 15-08-2024 at 11:27 AM.

  14. #10723
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Are we paying attention to SNP members ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn63rq8n2o
    Frankly? No.

    That article is just BBC Lockhart scraping in rubbish bins, trawling social media for people who are upset with Robertson. In today's angry antisocial media world it's rare to find unanimous praise on anyone's actions, very easy to find angry voices.

    Personally I'd rather our Government does speak to other diplomats, even evil Israeli ones. If we want to make progress on world peace we need to be talking to each other.

  15. #10724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Standard life take on the state pension

    Is the State Pension likely to be enough?

    Probably not. Even with the rise*coming in April,*a full new State Pension would be just over £11,500 a year. Keep in mind that the*Retirement Living Standards*suggest a single person would need £12,800 a year to cover just a ‘minimum’ retirement lifestyle.

    The reality is there’s a significant gap between what you get from the State Pension and*what you may actually need or want in retirement. The State Pension alone will only cover a very basic lifestyle and, because it only starts in your late 60s, won’t help to support you if you want to retire earlier. So it should only be a part of your overall retirement plan. Also bear in mind that it is subject to tax.


    Which consumers magazine says for 2025-26


    How much could the state pension be worth next year?

    Let’s presume the state pension increase is 5.7% (it may end up being more or less, depending on wage growth for May to July).*

    Currently, the full level of the new single-tier state pension is £221.20 a week or £11,502.40 a year. *

    If it were to rise by 5.7%, it would be worth £233.80 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £12,157.60 a year, which is a rise of over £655.

    Currently, the basic state pension is £169.50 a week in 2024-25 (£8,814 a year). This would increase to £179.15 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £9,315.80 per year – a rise of £501.


    £700 increase??
    £655 if your feeling pedantic to anyone on the full pension, regardless the rises next year will cover the loss of the fuel benefit. The best thing the tories did was make auto enrollment into a work pension though. Britain is an aging population so the pension money will be increasingly difficult to find.

  16. #10725
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    £655 if your feeling pedantic to anyone on the full pension, regardless the rises next year will cover the loss of the fuel benefit. The best thing the tories did was make auto enrollment into a work pension though. Britain is an aging population so the pension money will be increasingly difficult to find.
    The difference is almost a month pension, I dare anyone to say that they would be happy with only 11 months pay!!

    I'm also going to believe finance company and consumer organisations that the pension isn't enough to do more than just get by.

    Not forgetting older pensioner will only get £501 increase, so the majority.
    Last edited by Moulin Yarns; 15-08-2024 at 11:49 AM.

  17. #10726
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    Because almost all who don't own there home will be getting the allowance still. 80% of pensioners own there home. The average pensioners in the uk takes home £18k per year and 80% don't have housing costs. The pension is going up £700 this year so the loss will be mitigated at least. Scot gov has a budget and they need to choose what to spend the available money on. As I say 10% of pensioners in poverty is terrible, but when 25% of working age are in poverty and 30% of kids I'd prefer the money there. A quarter of pensioners being millionaires says its ludicrous that it isn't means tested, SNP are spot on imo
    So what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that pensioners who made sacrifices to pay for their homes are being penalised.

    And surely the pension increase is there to cover the cost of living increase and in no way mitigates the loss of this allowance. What you're saying is like asking everyone who gets a wage increase this year to stump up another £300 for their heating.
    Space to let

  18. #10727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    The difference is almost a month pension, I dare anyone to say that they would be happy with only 11 months pay!!

    I'm also going to believe finance company and consumer organisations that the pension isn't enough to do more than just get by.

    Not forgetting older pensioner will only get £501 increase, so the majority.
    It's not a month 655 is 45 difference of 700. It's going up by 655 for the full pension next year £12.150. The mean average a pensioner gets is now 18,148 that will go up with the increase

  19. #10728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    So what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that pensioners who made sacrifices to pay for their homes are being penalised.

    And surely the pension increase is there to cover the cost of living increase and in no way mitigates the loss of this allowance. What you're saying is like asking everyone who gets a wage increase this year to stump up another £300 for their heating.
    They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

    Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.

  20. #10729
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Frankly? No.

    That article is just BBC Lockhart scraping in rubbish bins, trawling social media for people who are upset with Robertson. In today's angry antisocial media world it's rare to find unanimous praise on anyone's actions, very easy to find angry voices.

    Personally I'd rather our Government does speak to other diplomats, even evil Israeli ones. If we want to make progress on world peace we need to be talking to each other.
    It has been reported on by multiple sources, I don’t think your default shoot the messenger position works on this one. Dismissing the likes of Kevin Stewart , Ivan McKee, Elena Whitman and Emma Roddick as angry social media voices doesn’t really hold water either.

    You may agree with the SNP Government’s decision to discuss areas of mutual interest with Israel whilst they continue their assault on Gaza. But would you agree that to do so whilst so many are asking for sanctions against Israel suggests this move has to be seen, at best, as tone deaf?
    Last edited by marinello59; 15-08-2024 at 12:15 PM.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  21. #10730
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    It's not a month 655 is 45 difference of 700. It's going up by 655 for the full pension next year £12.150. The mean average a pensioner gets is now 18,148 that will go up with the increase
    You are assuming every pensioner has other income to make it to the average. I have workplace pension but was contracted out of SERPS so don't get the full state pension. I think a lot of people are the same. The £18,148 is a red herring when the discussion is about state pension. Any pensioner who retired before 2016 doesn't get £12,150.
    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  22. #10731
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

    Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.
    What do you mean by "they don't have housing costs "? And what is your source that 27% of pensioners have over £1 million in assets??
    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  23. #10732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

    Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.
    Because they've worked for it, planned for it and probably not went to Benidorm every year to save money to buy their property. Why should those who had the foresight to plan for old age be asked to foot the bill for those who don't?

  24. #10733
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

    Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.
    They are penalised. They used to get £300 now they don't. That's penalised.

    They've had very high housing costs when paying off their mortgage. They still have housing costs as pensioners.

    Your argument that they should just sell up is up there with your top 3 most nonsense posts. And selling their family home isn't going to get kids out of poverty.
    Space to let

  25. #10734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    You are assuming every pensioner has other income to make it to the average. I have workplace pension but was contracted out of SERPS so don't get the full state pension. I think a lot of people are the same. The £18,148 is a red herring when the discussion is about state pension. Any pensioner who retired before 2016 doesn't get £12,150.
    It's not a red herring it's a fact. You could argue where the limit should be but a millionaire getting a benefit is bizarre to justify.

    Your also not adding pensions benefits to your totals, most under £11,300 get it unless savings or second pension. That's worth on average £3,900 a year.

  26. #10735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Because they've worked for it, planned for it and probably not went to Benidorm every year to save money to buy their property. Why should those who had the foresight to plan for old age be asked to foot the bill for those who don't?
    It's a couple of hundred pound per year, there pension is going up above inflation this year and above what they are losing so their planning will be fine

  27. #10736
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7 View Post
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    It's a couple of hundred pound per year, there pension is going up above inflation this year and above what they are losing so their planning will be fine
    And you know what they're all planning how?

  28. #10737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    They are penalised. They used to get £300 now they don't. That's penalised.

    They've had very high housing costs when paying off their mortgage. They still have housing costs as pensioners.

    Your argument that they should just sell up is up there with your top 3 most nonsense posts. And selling their family home isn't going to get kids out of poverty.
    They won't need to sell up it's £200 the pension is going up by a greater ammunition, much higher than wages are risi. It's a benefit given to all regardless of wealth SNP are spot on. Money is tough for governments and a flat benefit is ridiculous

  29. #10738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    And you know what they're all planning how?
    How do you know what they are planning you just gave 12 million people a life story. Why don't we give 200 to every 47 year old regardless of wealth or income, because that would be a badly targeted benefit

  30. #10739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    What do you mean by "they don't have housing costs "? And what is your source that 27% of pensioners have over £1 million in assets??
    https://theferret.scot/27-per-cent-pensioners-millionaires-mostly-true/
    Claim 27 per cent of pensioners are millionaires is Mostly True

  31. #10740
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    You may agree with the SNP Government’s decision to discuss areas of mutual interest with Israel whilst they continue their assault on Gaza. But would you agree that to do so whilst so many are asking for sanctions against Israel suggests this move has to be seen, at best, as tone deaf?
    Does asking for sanctions mean that diplomatic ties are severed?

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