SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Sylar]

I thought the SNP were vehemently against unelected leaders, seeing as they've (rightly) demanded elections every time a new Tory leader has popped up in the Westminster Whack-a-Mole show?

[hibee]

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I thought the SNP were vehemently against unelected leaders, seeing as they've (rightly) demanded elections every time a new Tory leader has popped up in the Westminster Whack-a-Mole show?

October 2022 news: John Swinney has urged the Tories to "do the decent thing" and call a general election and not elect another new leader and prime minister without going to the public.

It would seem that it’s ok now if it’s him and his party doing the exact same thing he demanded the Tories didn’t do.

[McD]

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October 2022 news: John Swinney has urged the Tories to "do the decent thing" and call a general election and not elect another new leader and prime minister without going to the public.

It would seem that it’s ok now if it’s him and his party doing the exact same thing he demanded the Tories didn’t do.

Politicians and hypocrisy go hand in hand sadly. They all like to point score against other parties but don’t hold themselves to the same standards

[Bristolhibby]

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I thought the SNP were vehemently against unelected leaders, seeing as they've (rightly) demanded elections every time a new Tory leader has popped up in the Westminster Whack-a-Mole show?

Is this it old news? Humza was became FM in March 23.

J

[Just Alf]

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I think you mean 2026, that's when the next fixed term Scottish Parliament election is due.

I do, sure I heard in the debate it was 18 months .

[grunt]

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No you've got it completely wrong you vote for a person not a party, they can change sides go independent it's up to them.

I'm aware of that. Still think it's wrong, because in the real world voters don't solely vote for candidates, party is also a significant factor in people's voting choices.

[Sylar]

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Is this it old news? Humza was became FM in March 23.

J

Doesn't matter how old the news is - the hypocrisy is current. Especially when Swinney himself has been extremely vocal on the issue in the past.

[Jack]

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October 2022 news: John Swinney has urged the Tories to "do the decent thing" and call a general election and not elect another new leader and prime minister without going to the public.

It would seem that it’s ok now if it’s him and his party doing the exact same thing he demanded the Tories didn’t do.

In certain circumstances I think its relatively OK for this FM/PM election to happen. This is where the new FM/PM broadly follows the policies carried out by their predecessor.

Where I think its wrong is what the torys have been upto. Theresa May being bumped by BJ although he called an election fairly soon after and was elected. The steady stream of 2nd, 3rd and 4th rate rejects we've had since BJ who have set their own agenda, miles away from any election manifesto, is plain wrong. In my opinion.

[grunt]

From today's Times

[Jones28]

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From today's Times

Yikes, party politics aside that’s in really poor taste, no?

[weecounty hibby]

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From today's Times

That's horrific and wouldn't have looked out of place on the cover of Das Reich or Der Sturmer in the 1930s

[Stairway 2 7]

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In certain circumstances I think its relatively OK for this FM/PM election to happen. This is where the new FM/PM broadly follows the policies carried out by their predecessor.

Where I think its wrong is what the torys have been upto. Theresa May being bumped by BJ although he called an election fairly soon after and was elected. The steady stream of 2nd, 3rd and 4th rate rejects we've had since BJ who have set their own agenda, miles away from any election manifesto, is plain wrong. In my opinion.

Are the certain circumstances when parties you prefer do it? It is utterly embarrassing hypocrisy for Swinney to say what he did about the tories not calling an election and him jumping in unelected to FM.

I'd maybe prefer an American system where the Vice jumps is, so your voting for 2 people. Can't have constant election but as you say the system we have where politicians with different views can become PM/FM

[Stairway 2 7]

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I'm aware of that. Still think it's wrong, because in the real world voters don't solely vote for candidates, party is also a significant factor in people's voting choices.

I agree with you but every party would need to want to change that and I've never heard one call for it

[lapsedhibee]

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I agree with you but every party would need to want to change that and I've never heard one call for it

Why would every party need to want to change it? Any party with an overall majority (or in Scotland any two parties with a combined majority) could just pass a law to say it has to happen.

[Jack]

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Are the certain circumstances when parties you prefer do it? It is utterly embarrassing hypocrisy for Swinney to say what he did about the tories not calling an election and him jumping in unelected to FM.

I'd maybe prefer an American system where the Vice jumps is, so your voting for 2 people. Can't have constant election but as you say the system we have where politicians with different views can become PM/FM

Nope. If Swinney was to change the direction of the SNP government I'd say that was wrong. There's nothing to suggest he will. Indeed it's probably the reverse where he'll go back to SNP basics and the type of policies the SNP are well known for.

[Sergio sledge]

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I agree with you but every party would need to want to change that and I've never heard one call for it

So are you proposing to just vote for a party at every election and the party just picks from a list of people to represent them in parliament?

I totally disagree with this, one of the key things about a constituency MSP for me is that they live locally and have an understanding of the issues affecting people in their local area, particularly living in the highlands where the issues affecting us are vastly different to the issues in Leith for example.

Rather than changing the system to suit people who are not engaged enough to look at the local candidates and weigh up each on their merits, why not make a point to educate people of the benefits of looking at the candidate rather than blindly voting on party and selecting someone to represent them.

I think one issue with politics at the minute is that it is moving away from local representation to party first politics with MSP's whipped to vote according to what the party wants in 99% of the votes. MSPs (and MPs) should be allowed to do what they were elected to do and vote on what they think their constituents would want and what serves their local area the best, even if that means going against their party.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m happy with current system and feel it’s easy to ignore opposition politicians of whatever party calling for an election.


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[Sylar]

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From today's Times

I'm no SNP fan, but that's utterly beyond the pale...

[Stairway 2 7]

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Why would every party need to want to change it? Any party with an overall majority (or in Scotland any two parties with a combined majority) could just pass a law to say it has to happen.

Yep but no party does want to so it's a moot point, we can't complain when someone does switch.

I disagree with others above. Since so many politicians are tied to what the whip tells them I think it's a fundamental change if someone goes from say SNP to Labour. Yes we should vote for the person but I'd bet 90% vote for the party

[Stairway 2 7]

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Nope. If Swinney was to change the direction of the SNP government I'd say that was wrong. There's nothing to suggest he will. Indeed it's probably the reverse where he'll go back to SNP basics and the type of policies the SNP are well known for.

So he's changing direction of the SNP to go back to basics but not changing. He's a hypocrite but that's not a big story He's just a politicians

[JimBHibees]

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From today's Times

Despicable on a common decency level irrespective of whatever party it is. What a toxic country we have become

[JimBHibees]

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Yep but no party does want to so it's a moot point, we can't complain when someone does switch.

I disagree with others above. Since so many politicians are tied to what the whip tells them I think it's a fundamental change if someone goes from say SNP to Labour. Yes we should vote for the person but I'd bet 90% vote for the party

Unless the candidate is particularly popular locally and sits as an independent totally agree vast majority will vote on a party basis.

[Ozyhibby]

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Despicable on a common decency level irrespective of whatever party it is. What a toxic country we have become

They only do it with Scottish politicians.


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[grunt]

A number of people on this very thread thought the Times' Brookes cartoon from Good Friday 2023 was very funny.
For those who don't remember it, it's here

[Moulin Yarns]

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So are you proposing to just vote for a party at every election and the party just picks from a list of people to represent them in parliament?

I totally disagree with this, one of the key things about a constituency MSP for me is that they live locally and have an understanding of the issues affecting people in their local area, particularly living in the highlands where the issues affecting us are vastly different to the issues in Leith for example.

Rather than changing the system to suit people who are not engaged enough to look at the local candidates and weigh up each on their merits, why not make a point to educate people of the benefits of looking at the candidate rather than blindly voting on party and selecting someone to represent them.

I think one issue with politics at the minute is that it is moving away from local representation to party first politics with MSP's whipped to vote according to what the party wants in 99% of the votes. MSPs (and MPs) should be allowed to do what they were elected to do and vote on what they think their constituents would want and what serves their local area the best, even if that means going against their party.

That's pretty much what the tories do in Scotland, Murdo Fraser and Stephen Kerr anyone? 😉

[JimBHibees]

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They only do it with Scottish politicians.


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Looks like it

[degenerated]

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A number of people on this very thread thought the Times' Brookes cartoon from Good Friday 2023 was very funny.
For those who don't remember it, it's here

Or these 20240503_184921.jpg20240503_184927.jpg

[One Day Soon]

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From today's Times

That's an absolute ****ing disgrace. I'm as angry about that as I was when someone on here casually described Gordon Brown as a Quisling. Words - and in this case pictures - have meaning and they also have consequences.

There is no excuse for this sort of casual and deliberate dragging of politics and politicians into the gutter. It happens routinely on social media too - particularly Twitter - and to my mind it's quite deliberately stepping well over a line. We talk a lot about hate crime these days, well this looks a lot more like one to me. There are no end of possibilities for rightly ripping the piss out of politicians without majoring on the suggestion of death or physical injury. Tasteless and dangerous.

And I say this as someone who wishes the SNP and nationalism no end of failure.

[One Day Soon]

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They only do it with Scottish politicians.


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No, they don't.

Corbyn's head on a plate: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2020/oct/29/steve-bell-labour-antisemitism-starmer-corbyn-cartoon

Netanyahu and the pound of flesh: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...of-steve-bell/

Priti Patel (a Hindu) as a bull: https://twitter.com/CAMERAorgUK/stat...79236931248129

[superfurryhibby]

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That's an absolute ****ing disgrace. I'm as angry about that as I was when someone on here casually described Gordon Brown as a Quisling. Words - and in this case pictures - have meaning and they also have consequences.

There is no excuse for this sort of casual and deliberate dragging of politics and politicians into the gutter. It happens routinely on social media too - particularly Twitter - and to my mind it's quite deliberately stepping well over a line. We talk a lot about hate crime these days, well this looks a lot more like one to me. There are no end of possibilities for rightly ripping the piss out of politicians without majoring on the suggestion of death or physical injury. Tasteless and dangerous.

And I say this as someone who wishes the SNP and nationalism no end of failure.

Well said. I'm no fan of the SNP, but a long standing supporter of independence. This kind of imagery is not acceptable. I hope it's reported to some authority or another and that the Times gets it erse booted.