Hamas attack on Israel

[grunt]

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They’ve now released the intercepted audio.

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I’m sure that could easily be set up to look however they want it to look.

https://x.com/alextomo/status/1714670858914894046?s=20

Several experts confirm Hamas’ view to @Channel4News that the audio tape of “Hamas” operatives talking about the missile malfunction is a fake . They say the tone, syntax, accent and idiom are absurd.

[superfurryhibby]

Will we see a UN resolution demanding a ceasefire?

Biden is due to visit Israel today and Guterres in Egypt on Thursday, surely diplomatic leverage will have some influence on both sides?

"The UN Special Coordinator and I are engaging with leaders in the region to express our concern, our outrage, and to advance efforts to avoid any spillover to the wider Middle East. This most recent violence does not come in a vacuum. The reality is that it grows out of a long-standing conflict, with a 56-year long occupation, and no political end in sight. It’s time to end this vicious circle of bloodshed, hatred and polarization. — ANTÓNIO GUTERRES"

https://www.un.org/sg/en?_gl=1%2Au3n...NDU3NS4wLjAuMA..

[Ozyhibby]

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Will we see a UN resolution demanding a ceasefire?

Biden is due to visit Israel today and Guterres in Egypt on Thursday, surely diplomatic leverage will have some influence on both sides?

"The UN Special Coordinator and I are engaging with leaders in the region to express our concern, our outrage, and to advance efforts to avoid any spillover to the wider Middle East. This most recent violence does not come in a vacuum. The reality is that it grows out of a long-standing conflict, with a 56-year long occupation, and no political end in sight. It’s time to end this vicious circle of bloodshed, hatred and polarization. — ANTÓNIO GUTERRES"

https://www.un.org/sg/en?_gl=1%2Au3n...NDU3NS4wLjAuMA..

We need more of that kind of talk.


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[Stairway 2 7]

US government Spokesperson says pentagon independently assessed it was misfire rocket from Hamas. Bellingcat says the crater is under 30cm deep and doesn't look like it's from an Isreali jdam.

Adrienne Watson
@NSC_Spox
"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday."


John Burn Murdoch from the FT says in a thread that the mainstream media got it wrong partly because none of them have OSINT teams, like I've mentioned today

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/sta...48538746118265
Some quick thoughts on why large parts of the mainstream media keep slipping up on Gaza/Israel (and why it was the same at times with Covid):

The main reason is a failure to keep pace with modern news gathering techniques, but there’s more.

With the proliferation of photos/footage, satellite imagery and map data, forensic video/image analysis and geolocation (~OSINT) has clearly been a key news gathering technique for several years now. A key news gathering technique *completely absent from most newsrooms*.

Obviously not every journalist should be an OSINT specialist, just as not every journalist is a specialist in combing through financial accounts, or scraping websites, or doing undercover investigations. But any large news org should have *some* OSINT specialists

Some of the biggest international news orgs now do have OSINT teams (or similar). @washingtonpost calls theirs “visual forensics”, @nytimes and @FT go with “visual investigations”. But most news orgs, even large ones, still don’t.

This means that when you have events unfolding rapidly amid a fog of war, most news orgs are still completely reliant on what they’re told by their sources. This isn’t ideal at the best of times, but especially so when different sources are clearly motivated to mislead.

It was the same during Covid, when everyone was quoting officials talking about things that could easily be checked and sometimes debunked by someone capable of doing their own data analysis. But there weren’t enough of those skills in newsrooms, so unchecked claims abounded.

Even when newsrooms have built up these resources (whether OSINT or data) the newness of those teams means there’s some initial wariness about relying on new people (often young and not from traditional journalism backgrounds, so considered outsiders) for massive news lines.

The result is most mainstream news orgs today are either simply not equipped to determine for themselves what’s happening in some of the world’s biggest stories, or lack the confidence to allow their in-house technical specialists to cast doubt on a star reporter’s trusted source
So you end up with situations where huge, respected news organisations are reporting as fact things that have already been shown by technically adept news gatherers outside newsrooms to be false or at the very least highly uncertain. It’s hugely damaging to trust in journalism.
Even without an in-house OSINT team, organisations like @bellingcat and @airwars have been around for almost a decade now to assist. With a situation like Gaza/Israel, any time you’re getting a comment from an official spokesperson, you should also be getting a comment from OSINT
Of course, news orgs also don’t help themselves by insisting on coming out with definitive takes immediately.

I obviously get the desire to be first, and the instinctive dislike of ambiguity.

But in situations like this, surely it’s better to be second and definitively correct?

Plus, with the sheer amount of footage these days, and the number of OSINT specialists combing through it, we’re often only talking about waiting a few hours.
I’m sure mainstream media will catch up, but it needs to happen fast in order to retain trust and even relevance, or readers will go elsewhere.

“According to a spokesperson” just doesn’t really cut it when the primary evidence is right there.
Beyond OSINT, I think the overarching issue is:

There’s an implicit assumption in most of journalism that the only way to find out what’s happening is to ask someone.

For years now it’s been possible to do better than that, but the industry has not fully taken this on board.

One final thought:

Fact-checks after the fact are inherently limited. “A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on”.

Forensic, investigative, truth-seeking work should be a proactive part of breaking news coverage, not a reactive add-on afterwards

[Stairway 2 7]

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We need more of that kind of talk.


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An hour after Biden arrive Isreal has said they will open a humanitarian corridor and the US has announced $100 in aid. Hopefully he keeps up the pressure, perhaps one of the few they will listen too

[MKHIBEE]

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An hour after Biden arrive Isreal has said they will open a humanitarian corridor and the US has announced $100 in aid. Hopefully he keeps up the pressure, perhaps one of the few they will listen too

The aid will only be allowed to come in through Egypt , not from the Israeli side of the border.

[grunt]

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An hour after Biden arrive Isreal has said they will open a humanitarian corridor and the US has announced $100 in aid. Hopefully he keeps up the pressure, perhaps one of the few they will listen too

Bit disappointed to be honest.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Bit disappointed to be honest.

Ha ffs. Would still be more than Isreal tbf

[JimBHibees]

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US government Spokesperson says pentagon independently assessed it was misfire rocket from Hamas. Bellingcat says the crater is under 30cm deep and doesn't look like it's from an Isreali jdam.

Adrienne Watson
@NSC_Spox
"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday."


John Burn Murdoch from the FT says in a thread that the mainstream media got it wrong partly because none of them have OSINT teams, like I've mentioned today

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/sta...48538746118265
Some quick thoughts on why large parts of the mainstream media keep slipping up on Gaza/Israel (and why it was the same at times with Covid):

The main reason is a failure to keep pace with modern news gathering techniques, but there’s more.

With the proliferation of photos/footage, satellite imagery and map data, forensic video/image analysis and geolocation (~OSINT) has clearly been a key news gathering technique for several years now. A key news gathering technique *completely absent from most newsrooms*.

Obviously not every journalist should be an OSINT specialist, just as not every journalist is a specialist in combing through financial accounts, or scraping websites, or doing undercover investigations. But any large news org should have *some* OSINT specialists

Some of the biggest international news orgs now do have OSINT teams (or similar). @washingtonpost calls theirs “visual forensics”, @nytimes and @FT go with “visual investigations”. But most news orgs, even large ones, still don’t.

This means that when you have events unfolding rapidly amid a fog of war, most news orgs are still completely reliant on what they’re told by their sources. This isn’t ideal at the best of times, but especially so when different sources are clearly motivated to mislead.

It was the same during Covid, when everyone was quoting officials talking about things that could easily be checked and sometimes debunked by someone capable of doing their own data analysis. But there weren’t enough of those skills in newsrooms, so unchecked claims abounded.

Even when newsrooms have built up these resources (whether OSINT or data) the newness of those teams means there’s some initial wariness about relying on new people (often young and not from traditional journalism backgrounds, so considered outsiders) for massive news lines.

The result is most mainstream news orgs today are either simply not equipped to determine for themselves what’s happening in some of the world’s biggest stories, or lack the confidence to allow their in-house technical specialists to cast doubt on a star reporter’s trusted source
So you end up with situations where huge, respected news organisations are reporting as fact things that have already been shown by technically adept news gatherers outside newsrooms to be false or at the very least highly uncertain. It’s hugely damaging to trust in journalism.
Even without an in-house OSINT team, organisations like @bellingcat and @airwars have been around for almost a decade now to assist. With a situation like Gaza/Israel, any time you’re getting a comment from an official spokesperson, you should also be getting a comment from OSINT
Of course, news orgs also don’t help themselves by insisting on coming out with definitive takes immediately.

I obviously get the desire to be first, and the instinctive dislike of ambiguity.

But in situations like this, surely it’s better to be second and definitively correct?

Plus, with the sheer amount of footage these days, and the number of OSINT specialists combing through it, we’re often only talking about waiting a few hours.
I’m sure mainstream media will catch up, but it needs to happen fast in order to retain trust and even relevance, or readers will go elsewhere.

“According to a spokesperson” just doesn’t really cut it when the primary evidence is right there.
Beyond OSINT, I think the overarching issue is:

There’s an implicit assumption in most of journalism that the only way to find out what’s happening is to ask someone.

For years now it’s been possible to do better than that, but the industry has not fully taken this on board.

One final thought:

Fact-checks after the fact are inherently limited. “A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on”.

Forensic, investigative, truth-seeking work should be a proactive part of breaking news coverage, not a reactive add-on afterwards

Smacks of bull that. Israel basically did it let’s create some doubt and Joe toes the line. Get tae with that nonsense

[Stairway 2 7]

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Smacks of bull that. Israel basically did it let’s create some doubt and Joe toes the line. Get tae with that nonsense

I don't think there is doubt most now say its looking like a Hamas mistake. There's multiple videos geolocated showing a failed rocket including from Al jezera live. The crater is tiny. No buildings are really damaged apart from broken glass. No wreckage of the missle.

I wouldn't believe Israel for a second. But why would bellingcat spend 10 years highlighting hundreds of Isreali war crimes including this week, just to switch now.

Some people don't care what evidence comes out they just stick to what they want to have happened. Isreal literally switched off the water to Gaza this week brutal, why is the hill people are dying on information from terrorists

[MKHIBEE]

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I don't think there is doubt most now say its looking like a Hamas mistake. There's multiple videos geolocated showing a failed rocket including from Al jezera live. The crater is tiny. No buildings are really damaged apart from broken glass. No wreckage of the missle.

I wouldn't believe Israel for a second. But why would bellingcat spend 10 years highlighting hundreds of Isreali war crimes including this week, just to switch now.

Some people don't care what evidence comes out they just stick to what they want to have happened. Isreal literally switched off the water to Gaza this week brutal, why is the hill people are dying on information from terrorists

The same reason people die on the information from the Israeli hill. It suits their agenda. Hamas are proscribed as terrorists, the Israeli army is called a “defence force”. That is the view most of the west would like to be accepted, others may see it differently.

[Stairway 2 7]

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[/B]
The same reason people die on the information from the Israeli hill. It suits their agenda. Hamas are proscribed as terrorists, the Israeli army is called a “defence force”. That is the view most of the west would like to be accepted, others may see it differently.

People that believe either Hamas or Isreal are half daft imo. I can understand the people that are too far gone and are on either side of the argument and won't move, it's the people that are usually objective that won't budge no matter the evidence.

It's like Tommy Sheridan constantly bigged up bellingcat and shared all their info on US war crimes in Iraq and Isreali war crimes. Then when they started sharing all their info on Russian war crimes he says they are NATO mouthpieces, baffling.

Satellite imagery from before and after show minimal damage to the buildings, solar panels intact. Many news agencies said the hospital was destroyed it's clearly not true. I think too many want to be first with the news
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...28700477219017

In real news of Isreali evil. Idf spokesman dismissive of sky news filming protesters hit by Isreali snipers. Isreal commits war crimes every day
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714744542824423636

[JimBHibees]

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I don't think there is doubt most now say its looking like a Hamas mistake. There's multiple videos geolocated showing a failed rocket including from Al jezera live. The crater is tiny. No buildings are really damaged apart from broken glass. No wreckage of the missle.

I wouldn't believe Israel for a second. But why would bellingcat spend 10 years highlighting hundreds of Isreali war crimes including this week, just to switch now.

Some people don't care what evidence comes out they just stick to what they want to have happened. Isreal literally switched off the water to Gaza this week brutal, why is the hill people are dying on information from terrorists

You’re line that the Pentagon independently assessed. On no planet are they independent in relation to Israel

[Stairway 2 7]

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You’re line that the Pentagon independently assessed. On no planet are they independent in relation to Israel

The pentagon say they independently assessed, I'm not the white House spokeswoman, it was her that said that. I wouldn’t trust Bidens team on its on personally

I shared about four different osint accounts that have been independently tracking Isreali war crimes for decades. There is literally satellite imagery of the scene from today showing minimal damage to the buildings, yet some are still sharing that Isreali destroyed a hospital.

What's obvious is a car park was hit and it wasn't by a large missle. If loads of independent information showed it was isreal I'd believe it

By the by Nathan Rutter of bellingcat whose thread I shared yesterday disproving the Isreali jdam story, obviously isn't happy with who pro Isreali brutality fans he's gained

Nathan Ruser
@Nrg8000
·
Hey uhh some new followers. If you followed me after seeing that thread and think I'm in any way supportive of a brutal siege, bombardment and war(/ crimes) you'll be disappointed, and if I see any genocidal and hateful crap in my replies and retweets I will absolutely boot you

[marinello59]

Clare Daly addressing the European Parliament, agree with her or not you have to admire her passion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EbUOptI128

[Ozyhibby]

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Clare Daly addressing the European Parliament, agree with her or not you have to admire her passion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EbUOptI128

I can’t stand her.


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[marinello59]

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I can’t stand her.


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You honestly did not have to tell me that. I would have assumed it.

[Bristolhibby]

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People that believe either Hamas or Isreal are half daft imo. I can understand the people that are too far gone and are on either side of the argument and won't move, it's the people that are usually objective that won't budge no matter the evidence.

It's like Tommy Sheridan constantly bigged up bellingcat and shared all their info on US war crimes in Iraq and Isreali war crimes. Then when they started sharing all their info on Russian war crimes he says they are NATO mouthpieces, baffling.

Satellite imagery from before and after show minimal damage to the buildings, solar panels intact. Many news agencies said the hospital was destroyed it's clearly not true. I think too many want to be first with the news
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...28700477219017

In real news of Isreali evil. Idf spokesman dismissive of sky news filming protesters hit by Isreali snipers. Isreal commits war crimes every day
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714744542824423636

It’s a bit like the 40 beheaded babies lie. You could tell it was a lie as soon as it was uttered. I just couldn’t believe even Hamas would do that.

Was pretty sure Isreal didn’t bomb a hospital.

J

[MKHIBEE]

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It’s a bit like the 40 beheaded babies lie. You could tell it was a lie as soon as it was uttered. I just couldn’t believe even Hamas would do that.

Was pretty sure Isreal didn’t bomb a hospital.

J

Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

[Green Reaper]

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Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

He did but later that day the US State Department, or similar, said nothing was seen by them directly but they believed the people who had said they seen the evidence.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

[greenginger]

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He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth .

It’s in the DNA in that part of the world

[MKHIBEE]

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He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

It won’t, the same way that Hamas killing Israelis doesn’t ease Palestinians pain. However, it may well be the beginning of the end for Palestine unless somebody outwith the main protagonists comes up with a solution suitable to both sides. My view is it’s highly unlikely and the Israelis will do their best to eradicate all things Palestinian.

[Stairway 2 7]

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It won’t, the same way that Hamas killing Israelis doesn’t ease Palestinians pain. However, it may well be the beginning of the end for Palestine unless somebody outwith the main protagonists comes up with a solution suitable to both sides. My view is it’s highly unlikely and the Israelis will do their best to eradicate all things Palestinian.

I think so too. They have been trying committing genocide for decades and now they feel they have justice on their side. Even if Hamas went something else would pop up so the mission is pointless in that sense. The west has turned a blind eye for too long to feign concern now

[MKHIBEE]

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I think so too. They have been trying committing genocide for decades and now they feel they have justice on their side. Even if Hamas went something else would pop up so the mission is pointless in that sense. The west has turned a blind eye for too long to feign concern now

The west has been complicit in the erasing of the Palestinians from the consciousness of the general public. Try and find Palestine on a map, it’s the enclave in Israel which is named the West Bank. Most people leave out the Occupied part. Hamas = terrorist= Palestine. Very few seem to report on the 75 years of occupation, terrorism, murder that Israel has carried out, that’s Israel who are nothing more than a murderous apartheid state. As recognised by many independent bodies, even by some Israelis .

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty interesting the times of Isreal had a poll and 70% want retribution for the terrorist attacks, which is to be expected although not genocide like they are doing imo. The surprising thing for me was 80% think Netanyahu for letting it happen, he could be gone next 🤞

[MKHIBEE]

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Pretty interesting the times of Isreal had a poll and 70% want retribution for the terrorist attacks, which is to be expected although not genocide like they are doing imo. The surprising thing for me was 80% think Netanyahu for letting it happen, he could be gone next 🤞

I would imagine many Palestinians would want retribution for the oppression they have suffered under the Israelis. And the cycle goes round again.

[Stairway 2 7]

Palestinian authority condem Hamas. At the same time Saudi Arabia say Hamas was funded by Iran and Qatar and there actions were wrong and done to undermine the Isreali Saudi normalisation deal. Saudi and Isreali normalisation talks set to continue, money talks

BethRigby
NEW: President of the Palestinian Auth Mahmoud Abbas & PM jointly condemn Hamas terrorism and stressed that Hamas do not represent the Palestinian people

[Ozyhibby]

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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[Keith_M]

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Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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I wish they would let the rest of the poor sods go, but sadly that's not going to happen.