Climate change and the impending apocalypse

[Jones28]

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Try walking (not aimed at you personally). I know not everyone can due to medical, health, age and sometimes weather or carrying bulky or heavy equipment / shopping but as a society if we got out of the mindset that we need to drive or take public transport for what would be not much more than a half hour walk then we would all be helping the environment as well as saving a little bit money and most importantly do wonders for our own personal heath.

At certain times of day on certain routes it hardly takes any longer. I can cycle my 5 mile commute in 20 minutes and I am by no means a very good cyclist or have a fancy bike. Even with low traffic I can’t drive this in much under 15 minutes. The only bit which adds some time is needing a shower on arrival at work and at home however this saves me needing a shower at home in the morning I suppose.

I can also run this in 40 mins each way which means I need to do much less running outwith my commute and therefore my free time is probably increased.

I think as a society we for some reason feel like a mile to two is driving or bus distance when most people with good heath can easily walk this or build up to walking this easy enough. Trips to foreign countries show just how good and safe the pavements are in Scotland for walking and we should take advantage of this.

As for your initial point I completely agree that free public transport would be a great think with the exception of discouraging short walks.

I do think more people need to see walking as part of daily life. The health benefits of walking a 30/40 minute commute each day are immense.

I live in South Lanarkshire with nothing apart from a park and pub in walkable distance.

In towns it's totally different and I do think their needs to be a mindset change for lots of people who could walk to a shop etc. 15 minute cities are the devils work according to some folk but they sound like a dream come true to me!

[Jones28]

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I think £2 is great value. Edinburgh bus service is one of the things which makes this city so brilliant.

Whether I get the bus depends on where I'm going/why though. It's great for work, but I'd not bother with the hassle for the shops.

£2 is great value to go from say Ocean Terminal to the Corn Exchange.

When I lived in the city the busses were starting to creep up and up, I think by the time I left it was £1.20 for an adult ticket.

My old football commute was walkable in hindsight but ticket prices made it much more attractive to get the bus.

[Allant1981]

If the train fare was cheaper I would definitely take the train into work each day rather than the car but at approx £15 per day for the train(will be a wee bit cheaper with a season pass) it's just to expensive. Same with electric cars, I don't have a drive at my house so no idea how I would charge my car each night

[Jones28]

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With Yousaf apparently having a meeting with **** bug Brian Souter last month, I can't see privatisation never mind free fares.

£62 a month for Lothian buses isn't too bad, although it's hundreds of pounds a month on some scotrail routes. Germany has the right idea with cheap transport

Rail prices are outrageous. An open return to Aberdeen is £80, half a tank of diesel would cost me less than half of that ticket price and I could carry 4 other people with me.

[Smartie]

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£2 is great value to go from say Ocean Terminal to the Corn Exchange.

When I lived in the city the busses were starting to creep up and up, I think by the time I left it was £1.20 for an adult ticket.

My old football commute was walkable in hindsight but ticket prices made it much more attractive to get the bus.

I'm loving my £3.80 return on the tram from near Ocean Terminal to the West End when I go to work (3 days per week, WFH on other days).

When you add that up a month and compare it to the costs of buying, running and parking a car it really is the financially sensible choice and not a cost that I think most folk could really grumble too much about.

I'd walk more but I don't like arriving at work sweaty and it's a sweaty trudge up the hill however you do it. And then if you've bought a return ticket, it makes it harder to want to walk home although it can be a lovely walk home on a nice evening.

[Jones28]

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I'm loving my £3.80 return on the tram from near Ocean Terminal to the West End when I go to work (3 days per week, WFH on other days).

When you add that up a month and compare it to the costs of buying, running and parking a car it really is the financially sensible choice and not a cost that I think most folk could really grumble too much about.

I'd walk more but I don't like arriving at work sweaty and it's a sweaty trudge up the hill however you do it. And then if you've bought a return ticket, it makes it harder to want to walk home although it can be a lovely walk home on a nice evening.

That makes a lot of sense for that money.

The walk home would be down hill no?

If I lived in the city I don't think I'd have a car - or maybe we'd have one between my wife and I...its a pain in the arse and I'm about to spend £500 getting the ******* thing fixed.

[Jones28]

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If the train fare was cheaper I would definitely take the train into work each day rather than the car but at approx £15 per day for the train(will be a wee bit cheaper with a season pass) it's just to expensive. Same with electric cars, I don't have a drive at my house so no idea how I would charge my car each night

It shouldn't be a wee bit cheaper, it should be so much cheaper that you'd be mad not to have a season pass.

[Ozyhibby]

I do about 10k a year in the car but have set a target this year of doing only 8k. Been getting the bus a lot recently and once you get back in the habit it doesn’t feel like a chore.
I would be in favour of the council bringing in a congestion charge if the pay off was making the buses and trams free. That would certainly change the calculations for a few people.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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I do about 10k a year in the car but have set a target this year of doing only 8k. Been getting the bus a lot recently and once you get back in the habit it doesn’t feel like a chore.
I would be in favour of the council bringing in a congestion charge if the pay off was making the buses and trams free. That would certainly change the calculations for a few people.


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That seems a really good idea actually

[Paul1642]

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That seems a really good idea actually

It is. We probably will introduce a congestion charge eventually but unfortunately public transport will not become free as a result. I would be hugely surprised if it did.

[RyeSloan]

I wonder how much of the transport emissions is private cars…we are always told people only use their cars 1% of the time they own it or whatever so to me it’s commercial transport that might be the easier / better area of focus.

Hydrogen is never happening for the family saloon but surely is not beyond the wit of man to introduce for all the trucks pounding up and down set routes and times on the motorway network. I’ve seen some tentative moves there but I think a lot more could be done much quicker.

Same goes for domestic heating, trying to force people into expensive and dubiously effective heat pumps seems a nearly unattainable outcome but assessing business energy use and driving efficiency there seems to be a win win for all involved.

There is already big moves afoot there in terms of forcing commercial property to be a certain EPC rating (C min by 2025 I think) which is driving large, mainly private, investment…more of that type of thing can have big impacts.

But the fact remains the ‘easy’ stuff has been done with most of the progress in CO2 reduction coming from energy and the move to renewables.

So the harder stuff now needs to be addressed but has to be done so in a fair and equitable manner without focussing on the wrong areas that will bring limited benefits but huge potential costs.

[Ozyhibby]

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I wonder how much of the transport emissions is private cars…we are always told people only use their cars 1% of the time they own it or whatever so to me it’s commercial transport that might be the easier / better area of focus.

Hydrogen is never happening for the family saloon but surely is not beyond the wit of man to introduce for all the trucks pounding up and down set routes and times on the motorway network. I’ve seen some tentative moves there but I think a lot more could be done much quicker.

Same goes for domestic heating, trying to force people into expensive and dubiously effective heat pumps seems a nearly unattainable outcome but assessing business energy use and driving efficiency there seems to be a win win for all involved.

There is already big moves afoot there in terms of forcing commercial property to be a certain EPC rating (C min by 2025 I think) which is driving large, mainly private, investment…more of that type of thing can have big impacts.

But the fact remains the ‘easy’ stuff has been done with most of the progress in CO2 reduction coming from energy and the move to renewables.

So the harder stuff now needs to be addressed but has to be done so in a fair and equitable manner without focussing on the wrong areas that will bring limited benefits but huge potential costs.

I think private cars driving in cities is right up there among causes of pollution.


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[Allant1981]

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It shouldn't be a wee bit cheaper, it should be so much cheaper that you'd be mad not to have a season pass.

I totally agree, sure when I checked it works out £16 per week cheaper, which sounds ok but in reality not that great when it then costs me £13 per week less in fuel than the train saving, and that's what matters most at the minute

[Jones28]

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I totally agree, sure when I checked it works out £16 per week cheaper, which sounds ok but in reality not that great when it then costs me £13 per week less in fuel than the train saving, and that's what matters most at the minute

My dad used to commute to Glasgow for work and when he enquired about a season ticket it was based on him travelling 5 days a week for the whole term of the ticket. So if he took holidays, worked from home or didn't travel to Glasgow for work he'd be out of pocket.

It shouldn't be like this.

[s.a.m]

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My dad used to commute to Glasgow for work and when he enquired about a season ticket it was based on him travelling 5 days a week for the whole term of the ticket. So if he took holidays, worked from home or didn't travel to Glasgow for work he'd be out of pocket.

It shouldn't be like this.

I had the exact same problem as your dad when I commuted to Dundee in the 90s; season ticket would have worked out as quite a lot more than paying daily. I had to do it by train because I don't drive, but the train cost would have been a massive disincentive if I'd had that option.

[Smartie]

Having decent stuff like the Edinburgh trams and buses really shows up the grotesquely overpriced and piss poor train service in Scotland (and the rest of the UK) for what it really is.

It would be my regular choice of mode of transport for many journeys but there are no end of reasons why I make other choices.

There's no way the Scottish rail service attracts people out of cars, even if high parking / possible congestion charges attempt to push people out of them.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I wonder how much of the transport emissions is private cars…we are always told people only use their cars 1% of the time they own it or whatever so to me it’s commercial transport that might be the easier / better area of focus.

Hydrogen is never happening for the family saloon but surely is not beyond the wit of man to introduce for all the trucks pounding up and down set routes and times on the motorway network. I’ve seen some tentative moves there but I think a lot more could be done much quicker.

Same goes for domestic heating, trying to force people into expensive and dubiously effective heat pumps seems a nearly unattainable outcome but assessing business energy use and driving efficiency there seems to be a win win for all involved.

There is already big moves afoot there in terms of forcing commercial property to be a certain EPC rating (C min by 2025 I think) which is driving large, mainly private, investment…more of that type of thing can have big impacts.

But the fact remains the ‘easy’ stuff has been done with most of the progress in CO2 reduction coming from energy and the move to renewables.

So the harder stuff now needs to be addressed but has to be done so in a fair and equitable manner without focussing on the wrong areas that will bring limited benefits but huge potential costs.

52% of transportation emissions according to this (and those were roughly a quarter of all emissions, so an 1/8 of all UK emissions).

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/

[RyeSloan]

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52% of transportation emissions according to this (and those were roughly a quarter of all emissions, so an 1/8 of all UK emissions).

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/

Interesting, quite a chunk then.

So EV’s it is…but then we are back into the ‘tailpipe emissions’ v overall impact of scrapping an already built car v a new EV v how much public transport can actually replace private transport.

Ach I give up

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'd agree with that, but equally I see their point that disruption isn't disruption without the disruption. It's a bit of a rock and a hard place for them...

You're right that too much energy is on their antics rather than their cause. I guess without those rogue antics there would be even less about their cause... although I do think that climate is at the fore of public consciousness now.

I've probably said this before, so apologies for repeating myself.

So much of social change in the last century or more has come about after "disruption". The Suffragettes, Rosa Parks, the Stonewall Riots are just a few off the top of my head. At the time, they would have been seen as "nutjobs" or "extremists", whereas now (through the lens of history), they are lauded as heroes and heroines.

In that light, I'm comfortable with "rogue antics".

[Jones28]

We need to go to a system where mass transit is promoted and is free at the point of use and taxation funded, but could be a sign-up scheme where you can opt out but pay to use.

Secondly there needs to be massive out-of-town parking opportunities with high speed links to the major hubs.

Thirdly there needs to be a re-opening of small train stations in rural areas. The west coast mainline is spitting distance from my house but the nearest access point is a car journey away at Carstairs Junction, with one train at 0730 most mornings, one around tea time and then a couple of late services at the weekend.

Make the train a viable option for people to actively discourage them using their cars.

I also think working from home is something that should be championed. My commute is usually 300 miles in the car a week but I now WFH 3 days a week, saves me 180 miles of driving a week.

[Jones28]

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I had the exact same problem as your dad when I commuted to Dundee in the 90s; season ticket would have worked out as quite a lot more than paying daily. I had to do it by train because I don't drive, but the train cost would have been a massive disincentive if I'd had that option.

It beggars belief. You have to wonder who makes these decisions.

[Smartie]

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I've probably said this before, so apologies for repeating myself.

So much of social change in the last century or more has come about after "disruption". The Suffragettes, Rosa Parks, the Stonewall Riots are just a few off the top of my head. At the time, they would have been seen as "nutjobs" or "extremists", whereas now (through the lens of history), they are lauded as heroes and heroines.

In that light, I'm comfortable with "rogue antics".

I'm comfortable with "rogue antics".

In view of stuff like that by-election last week that ended up cementing a core of voters together behind the Tories on the subject of ULEZ, I just worry that their actions might have the opposite effects to the ones they desire - cementing voters against green issues in general.

TBH I'm torn and undecided on it because I don't really know how else the message gets across. People having to continually suffer disappointing holidays, flooded houses etc probably, until the penny drops but unless it affects any of the "I'm alright Jack" brigade directly I think it'll be a long journey.

[Stairway 2 7]

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We need to go to a system where mass transit is promoted and is free at the point of use and taxation funded, but could be a sign-up scheme where you can opt out but pay to use.

Secondly there needs to be massive out-of-town parking opportunities with high speed links to the major hubs.

Thirdly there needs to be a re-opening of small train stations in rural areas. The west coast mainline is spitting distance from my house but the nearest access point is a car journey away at Carstairs Junction, with one train at 0730 most mornings, one around tea time and then a couple of late services at the weekend.

Make the train a viable option for people to actively discourage them using their cars.

I also think working from home is something that should be championed. My commute is usually 300 miles in the car a week but I now WFH 3 days a week, saves me 180 miles of driving a week.

I'd read a study that said working from cuts emissions 4 summer months of year, it's worse for the environment the rest. Less commuting was undone by heating and powering individual houses compared to large efficient buildings. I think this will widen if businesses switch to electric heat from gas quicker than houses

[Stairway 2 7]

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I'm comfortable with "rogue antics".

In view of stuff like that by-election last week that ended up cementing a core of voters together behind the Tories on the subject of ULEZ, I just worry that their actions might have the opposite effects to the ones they desire - cementing voters against green issues in general.

TBH I'm torn and undecided on it because I don't really know how else the message gets across. People having to continually suffer disappointing holidays, flooded houses etc probably, until the penny drops but unless it affects any of the "I'm alright Jack" brigade directly I think it'll be a long journey.

The consensus seems to be everyone is pro green policy, until its going to personally cost them thousands. I can understand that and it's why getting people to switch to an electric heating system is going to be a vote killer, especially if people are expected to fund themselves

[Paul1642]

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The consensus seems to be everyone is pro green policy, until its going to personally cost them thousands. I can understand that and it's why getting people to switch to an electric heating system is going to be a vote killer, especially if people are expected to fund themselves

Most people simply can’t or won’t find a full or partial green setup out of their own pocket. Part of this is probably a mindset similar to ‘why should I spend 45k of my own money (heat pump 7.5k to 15k, solar panels, 7.5k, cheap EV 30k) when the majority won’t’ and ‘I can’t make a difference by myself so why bother’

I guess the solution is for the Government to fund Heat Pumps, solar panels and good insulation for the masses in the way that they did with smart meters whilst heavily subsidising electric vehicles, whilst also investing in even more green energy generation to cope with the increased electricity demand. Gas demand would plummet. They would also need to pass legislation requiring business to pay their own way to do the same, perhaps subsidised for small businesses.

This would cost an absolute fortune (I don’t even have the slightest idea how much) and we would then need a large tax increase to fund it or maybe even a new ‘green tax’. It’s probably the right thing to do and the long term benefits would be worth it however this is where the problem with democracy comes into things though. No party could ever consider this because they wouldn’t have a hope in hell in being elected in the first place with the voters knowing they would be hit hard in the pocket.

I personally would be on board with this due to the points made above. I can’t and won’t spend all my disposable income for years to come on these things when so few others are but if the whole country was in the same boat I could suck up the tax hit.

It would also be a great time to get a job in the green energy installation sector :)

[lapsedhibee]

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I've probably said this before, so apologies for repeating myself.

So much of social change in the last century or more has come about after "disruption". The Suffragettes, Rosa Parks, the Stonewall Riots are just a few off the top of my head. At the time, they would have been seen as "nutjobs" or "extremists", whereas now (through the lens of history), they are lauded as heroes and heroines.

In that light, I'm comfortable with "rogue antics".

Rosa Parks's stand is a good analogy for the JSO rogues' antics. Let's hope all those sympathetic to the JSO cause back up their words of sympathy with action, like all those Montgomery workers who walked to work for a year rather than use the offending bus company.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Rosa Parks's stand is a good analogy for the JSO rogues' antics. Let's hope all those sympathetic to the JSO cause back up their words of sympathy with action, like all those Montgomery workers who walked to work for a year rather than use the offending bus company.

.... or cycle

[lapsedhibee]

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.... or cycle

Just Stop Oiling the chain.

[Jones28]

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I'd read a study that said working from cuts emissions 4 summer months of year, it's worse for the environment the rest. Less commuting was undone by heating and powering individual houses compared to large efficient buildings. I think this will widen if businesses switch to electric heat from gas quicker than houses

It could well do, however I'd be interested in where the study came from. The government are champions of getting back to the office etc.

Personally, I've got solar panels on the house and on my WFH days there are negligible changes in the amount of electricity I use.

[Stairway 2 7]

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It could well do, however I'd be interested in where the study came from. The government are champions of getting back to the office etc.

Personally, I've got solar panels on the house and on my WFH days there are negligible changes in the amount of electricity I use.

It was from the environmental team at wsp, they push many green engineering ideas. It will vary for individuals like yourself. Nationwide I think it would definitely be best working in office in the winter if its purely about the environment, with gas prices it might be cheaper for some people too especially if they live close to work


"WSP’s calculations show that working from home rather than the office in summer saves around 400kg of carbon emissions, the equivalent of 5% of a typical British commuter’s annual carbon footprint. This is because homeworking staff cut out their carbon emissions from their commute which would otherwise be greater than their home’s energy consumption.

This is a seasonal benefit, however. If an average employee worked at home all year round, they would produce 2.5 tonnes of carbon per year – around 80% more than an office worker. This is because working from home in the winter means most heating systems in Britain heat the whole house which produces far more carbon emissions than what would be produced from the commute.

David Symons, UK Director of Sustainability at WSP, explains: “Much of the information around the benefits of working from home centre on flexible working and increased wellbeing of employees, which are very important, but it’s exciting to see that our data shows it can also be good for the environment.

Working from home in the summer and from the office in winter, is only a small step towards a zero-carbon economy, but an easy one for companies to consider