SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Mibbes Aye]

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Milford Haven (part of Pembrokeshire) 57% Leave
Peterhead (part of Aberdeenshire) 45% Leave.

But then I'm not your personal researcher.

I'm relieved.

Line 1: You are quoting the figure for Pembrokeshire, not Milford Haven

Line 2: You are quoting the figure for Aberdeenshire, not Peterhead. Oh, and the University of East Anglia conducted extensive research to map the results by constituency. They found that Banff and Buchan, the constituency in Aberdeenshire that contains Peterhead was very much a majority Leave.

We are seeing a number of applicants for the post of personal researcher Mr Grunt, and we will get back to you shortly. In the meantime, thank you for your interest in the role.

[archie]

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Let’s hope the good people of England, Wales and NI vote for mp’s that want a Scottish independence referendum then. That appears to be the democratic route for Scotland. Not sure it would pass many democracy tests but fair play for giving it a go and trying to articulate a democratic process.
Can’t wait to hear Sarwar articulate it that way.


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I think the weakness of the 'democracy tests' point is that very few democracies allow secession. By your test virtually no western democracies would count as democratic. The UK approach in 2014 is held up in academic journals as quite enlightened.

The solution to another referendum is a political one. You can speculate all you like about why, but Salmond was able to secure an excellent deal.

There is also the small matter of the impact of the referendum. These are convulsive events and aren't the easy fixes that are often portrayed here.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Sneaky.

Good practice

[Ozyhibby]

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I think the weakness of the 'democracy tests' point is that very few democracies allow secession. By your test virtually no western democracies would count as democratic. The UK approach in 2014 is held up in academic journals as quite enlightened.

The solution to another referendum is a political one. You can speculate all you like about why, but Salmond was able to secure an excellent deal.

There is also the small matter of the impact of the referendum. These are convulsive events and aren't the easy fixes that are often portrayed here.

Very few western democracies are made up of a union of individual nations.
There is a strong majority of Scots who think that the decision on whether we become independent should be made in Scotland. I think people understand a democratic deficit when they see one.


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[Skol]

I took a conscious decision last weekend to take a break from posting here. I have decided to make that permanent.

I have still been poking in and reading the weeks posts and mostly shaking my head at the nature of the debate. It’s just toxic at times.

[archie]

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Very few western democracies are made up of a union of individual nations.
There is a strong majority of Scots who think that the decision on whether we become independent should be made in Scotland. I think people understand a democratic deficit when they see one.


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Germany? In any event, the UK is a unitary state.

[degenerated]

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I'm saying nothing's changed regarding the democratic process since the last referendum except for the fact it's clear there's not the appetite among voters to have another one no matter how many ways the SNP try to dress it up.

Theres a democratically elected majority in favour of independence, as there was for the 2014 referendum. The government in England allowed us a vote then so what's changed now ?

[Since90+2]

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Theres a democratically elected majority in favour of independence, as there was for the 2014 referendum. The government in England allowed us a vote then so what's changed now ?

They think there's a good chance they'd lose this one.

They had their fingers burnt with Brexit and they don't want to take the risk of it happening again.

[degenerated]

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They think there's a good chance they'd lose this one.

They had their fingers burnt with Brexit and they don't want to take the risk of it happening again.

If polling had suggested anywhere north of 30% supported independence he would have refused a referendum as well.

[marinello59]

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I took a conscious decision last weekend to take a break from posting here. I have decided to make that permanent.

I have still been poking in and reading the weeks posts and mostly shaking my head at the nature of the debate. It’s just toxic at times.

That’s a shame. I may not always agree with you but you do respect others opinions and argue your case well. We need more like you. Your contributions will be missed, hope you come back after another wee break.

[Berwickhibby]

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I took a conscious decision last weekend to take a break from posting here. I have decided to make that permanent.

I have still been poking in and reading the weeks posts and mostly shaking my head at the nature of the debate. It’s just toxic at times.

I will probably be joining you …after being trolled on the main board yesterday

[He's here!]

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They didn’t have much in common when it came to brexit?


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I was working in London at the time of the EU referendum and there were areas there who voted more strongly in favour of remain than in many areas of Scotland. It was also a pretty close-run thing across the south-east and south-west of England. Folk also tend to forget that well over a million voters in Scotland actually voted for Brexit (including a significant chunk of SNP voters).

Similar to a general election the first past the post system will always leave enormous numbers of voters (in England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland) unhappy with the result but for as long as we vote as the UK it's the version of democracy we operate by.

[Jack]

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I'm relieved.

Line 1: You are quoting the figure for Pembrokeshire, not Milford Haven

Line 2: You are quoting the figure for Aberdeenshire, not Peterhead. Oh, and the University of East Anglia conducted extensive research to map the results by constituency. They found that Banff and Buchan, the constituency in Aberdeenshire that contains Peterhead was very much a majority Leave.

We are seeing a number of applicants for the post of personal researcher Mr Grunt, and we will get back to you shortly. In the meantime, thank you for your interest in the role.

Aye those Brexit loving fishermen are greeting enough now to sink their boats.

[Just Alf]

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I will probably be joining you …after being trolled on the main board yesterday

That's a shame, I know we don't see eye to eye on the indy thing ( ) but it's good to have different opinions on here.

And FWIW I noticed that yesterday and thought they were a bit out of order to go on and on re a simple statement

[weecounty hibby]

It's just not worth it anymore. And I mean this thread. Independence will always be worth fighting for to ensure a better, fairer Scotland. Have fun chaps!!

[grunt]

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That’s a shame. I may not always agree with you but you do respect others opinions and argue your case well. We need more like you. Your contributions will be missed, hope you come back after another wee break.

Agreed.

[Hibrandenburg]

I was seriously interested in how Berwickhibby was being trolled and hoping me disagreeing with him on the match day thread hasn't been interpretated as trolling. Based on that I thought my question was a fair one.

[grunt]

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We are seeing a number of applicants for the post of personal researcher ...

I'll bet.

[He's here!]

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Theres a democratically elected majority in favour of independence, as there was for the 2014 referendum. The government in England allowed us a vote then so what's changed now ?

The SNP have never won a majority since 2011.

[degenerated]

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The SNP have never won a majority since 2011.

I'm not sure what your point is here?

We have a government formed by 2 parties who had both got elected on the basis of having a referendum, so I'll ask again. What's different?

[He's here!]

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I'm not sure what your point is here?

We have a government formed by 2 parties who had both got elected on the basis of having a referendum, so I'll ask again. What's different?

The coalition needed to cobble together an independence supporting majority is what's different.

The UK government are actually doing Scotland a favour by ensuring those eejits Harvie and Slater don't carry any more clout than they already do.

[weecounty hibby]

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The coalition needed to cobble together an independence supporting majority is what's different.

The UK government are actually doing Scotland a favour by ensuring those eejits Harvie and Slater don't carry any more clout than they already do.

I wanted to stay off this thread but I can't, just can't, let this ***** slip. You support the Tories, you have said that so it's undeniable. Johnson, Truss, Kwarteng etc you supported them, you backed them up, you argued on their defence. But Slater and Harvie...... I've just got a pensions statement through after asking as I want to retire early. 30% down on where it was 3 years ago. Aye, defend that!! I can assure you the UK government do absolutely no favours to scotland

[Ozyhibby]

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The coalition needed to cobble together an independence supporting majority is what's different.

The UK government are actually doing Scotland a favour by ensuring those eejits Harvie and Slater don't carry any more clout than they already do.

Ah, benevolent dictatorship. Love it.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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It's impossible for the SNP to win a GE. Getting the majority of votes in Scotland isn't 'winning' when the vote is a nationwide one.

Well done! You have spotted the problem!!!!

[J-C]

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Through Parliament. I saw someone possted something about Orkney earlier. Exactly the same for them. Through Parliament.

Otherwise what could it be?

And when we attempt to go through parliament (London) we're told it won't be happening, hence why we went to the courts earlier to see what we could do, the courts then said we must get permission from parliament, sort of catch 22 situation is it not.

[J-C]

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The SNP have never won a majority since 2011.

TBF the electoral system we have your not really meant to win a majority, it's there to make people and parties work together, prior to the SNP in power we had a coalition of Labour/Liberal.

[Jack]

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I wanted to stay off this thread but I can't, just can't, let this ***** slip. You support the Tories, you have said that so it's undeniable. Johnson, Truss, Kwarteng etc you supported them, you backed them up, you argued on their defence. But Slater and Harvie...... I've just got a pensions statement through after asking as I want to retire early. 30% down on where it was 3 years ago. Aye, defend that!! I can assure you the UK government do absolutely no favours to scotland

I said this would happen, on this or probably the tory thread, and was sent away with a flee in my ear saying not to spread fear and alarm. I'm sorry its played out like this for you.

[Hiber-nation]

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Scottish Executive is alive and well and living at Victoria Quay down at Ocean Drive, that particular big building you see down there is not the Scottish Government, which resides in the Parliament Building.

The Scottish Executive was renamed The Scottish Government in 2007. The sign above the door says "The Scottish Government" and has done since back then. I should know, I worked in VQ at the time!

[J-C]

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The Scottish Executive was renamed The Scottish Government in 2007. The sign above the door says "The Scottish Government" and has done since back then. I should know, I worked in VQ at the time!

Thanks for clarification.

[lapsedhibee]

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TBF the electoral system we have your not really meant to win a majority, it's there to make people and parties work together, prior to the SNP in power we had a coalition of Labour/Liberal.

Shocking how often English MPs get to spout the line about SNP 'failing' to win majorities on air without being challenged on it.