SNP are lying b******s as well !

[He's here!]

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This won't be to everyone's taste, but it's certainly thought provoking http://robinmcalpine.org/how-bad-is-this/

Not a pretty picture. But hey, the SNP are only a vehicle for independence...or not, as that piece concludes.

I saw Salmond doing his best to make political capital from the SNP crisis yesterday. He must be loving this. Could it be a way back to relevance for him if folk are looking for a replacement vehicle for independence?

[Since90+2]

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The only party who redistributed wealth by the stroke of a pen was the conservative party and the right to buy scheme, and that's a fact. No other party has come close or will ever come close.

The right to buy scheme was the very definition of short term gain for extreme long term pain. I struggle to understand how anyone who looks at where we are in terms of housing that thinks it was a good policy.

[Crunchie]

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The right to buy scheme was the very definition of short term gain for extreme long term pain. I struggle to understand how anyone who looks at where we are in terms of housing that thinks it was a good policy.

Struggle all you like, for tens of thousands and more ordinary working class families it gave them wealth and security they could only ever have dreamed of. It also changed a mindset for many to look after their homes instead of the it's no ma hoose it's the council attitude.
The shortage of housing today has many other factors to it as you well know. I won't detract from the thread any further.

[WhileTheChief..]

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She's not been arrested or charged with anything whatsoever.

Unless you know more than Police Scotland do? Suspicion on your behalf, simply because you don't like her, doesn't count.

Why so argumentative?

I said "if it's shown that she lied". I said nothing about being arrested or charged, you made that bit up.

If you don't want to answer the question I asked, just ignore the post.

[marinello59]

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/05/police-scotland-questions-peter-murrell-arrest-snp-sturgeon/

Seems reasonable for the Forbes camp to speculate she might have won had news of Murrell's imminent arrest been known earlier.

She may be quietly pleased she didn’t win now. If Yousaf doesn’t distance himself from the Murrell’s quickly she could be in the top job before the next election.

[Paul1642]

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She's not been arrested or charged with anything whatsoever.

Unless you know more than Police Scotland do? Suspicion on your behalf, simply because you don't like her, doesn't count.

She hasn’t been arrested nor will she be yet most people will reasonably believe that she knew what was going on.

It’s simply very hard to believe that she she didn’t know what her husband / party chief was up to.

[Since90+2]

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Why so argumentative?

I said "if it's shown that she lied". I said nothing about being arrested or charged, you made that bit up.

If you don't want to answer the question I asked, just ignore the post.

Not sure why you keep suggesting posts are argumentative. Chill out man, it's a debate. Maybe try a wee green tea or something.

Anyway, of course if she has been found to lie she should resign, but that goes for any member of parliament.

[marinello59]

Sturgeon has pulled out of the climate change discussion she was going to take part in today at the Edinburgh Science festival. No doubt she will be accused of hiding but it looks like a sensible decision. She would be bombarded with off topic questions about her husbands arrest which she couldn’t legally answer.

[archie]

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If she'd been there when the police arrived, then you'd be speculating that she waited because she was tipped off that they were coming. That's about the long and short of the unionist storyline the last few years.

I made clear that it wasn't my speculation. It was independence supporters who initiated this whole investigation.

[archie]

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The right to buy scheme was the very definition of short term gain for extreme long term pain. I struggle to understand how anyone who looks at where we are in terms of housing that thinks it was a good policy.

But it was hugely popular in Scotland. I say that as someone who thinks it was a terrible idea.

[archie]

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Sturgeon has pulled out of the climate change discussion she was going to take part in today at the Edinburgh Science festival. No doubt she will be accused of hiding but it looks like a sensible decision. She would be bombarded with off topic questions about her husbands arrest which she couldn’t legally answer.

Even with questions at the event tightly controlled, she would have to fight her way through a scrum of journalists shouting questions that would look dreadful.

[Berwickhibby]

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But it was hugely popular in Scotland. I say that as someone who thinks it was a terrible idea.

Where the scheme really goes wrong was the Tory lies at the time, saying money generated from the right to buy scheme was going to be used to build new council houses …. But surprisingly :rolleyes it didn’t

[Jones28]

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Why does the news keep emphasising Sturgeon and Murrell had 'no prior knowledge' of the arrest and search? If I was going to be arrested tomorrow would I get a friendly phone call tonight saying 'by the way you are going to be arrested tomorrow'?

I get why it might be expected the FM would be made aware but surely not the suspect?

They did it again on GMB this morning, massive emphasis on it.

Maybe they're re-iterating as a bit of reverse psychology?

[archie]

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Where the scheme really goes wrong was the Tory lies at the time, saying money generated from the right to buy scheme was going to be used to build new council houses …. But surprisingly :rolleyes it didn’t

Well the reality was that councils couldn’t. Money had to go to redeeming debt and new houses, after a period, would be subject to the right to buy!

[Jones28]

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Do we expect NS to continue as an MSP until the next election?

If it's shown that she's lied about of any of this, she would have to stand down, meaning a by-election.

For such a smart political operator for so long, how has she got this so spectacularly wrong. She must have known that these things always come out eventually.

And rightly so, she should stand down as an MSP if she's found guilty of anything.

But she hasn't got anything wrong yet, and the fact her husband has been released after 12 hours in police custody without charge would suggest she still hasn't gotten anything wrong.

[Jones28]

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Not sure why you keep suggesting posts are argumentative. Chill out man, it's a debate. Maybe try a wee green tea or something.

Anyway, of course if she has been found to lie she should resign, but that goes for any member of parliament.

Only the ones at the Scottish Parliament

[marinello59]

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Only the ones at the Scottish Parliament

Only if they ‘knowingly’ lied.

I think automatic resignation for telling porkies only applies to ministers. The rest can bluff their way out of it if they want with no consequences.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

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The only party who redistributed wealth by the stroke of a pen was the conservative party and the right to buy scheme, and that's a fact. No other party has come close or will ever come close.

That’s all fine and well but I’ve been waiting on a council house that’s suitable for my disabled wife now for three years. In that time we’ve had to make do with a private let that’s very expensive and unsuited to her needs, to the point where she rarely gets out the house and absolutely doesn’t get out without my assistance. They sold off a bunch of houses for a quick buck, not to redistribute wealth.


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[Jack]

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Only if they ‘knowingly’ lied.

I think automatic resignation for telling porkies only applies to ministers. The rest can bluff their way out of it if they want with no consequences.

According to this list ministers and MPs lie through their teeth on a regular basis and despite being told have made no attempt to correct the record.

https://fullfact.org/updates/mps-who-have-not-corrected-the-record/

[archie]

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That’s all fine and well but I’ve been waiting on a council house that’s suitable for my disabled wife now for three years. In that time we’ve had to make do with a private let that’s very expensive and unsuited to her needs, to the point where she rarely gets out the house and absolutely doesn’t get out without my assistance. They sold off a bunch of houses for a quick buck, not to redistribute wealth.


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It wasn't even for money. It was to drive social change in the country and break the power of councils.

[JeMeSouviens]

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It wasn't even for money. It was to drive social change in the country and break the power of councils.

... and create more Tories was the general idea.

The Tories were and are very good at redistributing wealth held in the collective to (usually already wealthy) individuals. Not quite what Marx had in mind!

Their trick has always been to throw just enough crumbs off the table to the aspirants. In the Thatcher years that was council houses and shares in utilities. Tell Sid!

[archie]

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... and create more Tories was the general idea.

The Tories were and are very good at redistributing wealth held in the collective to (usually already wealthy) individuals. Not quite what Marx had in mind!

Their trick has always been to throw just enough crumbs off the table to the aspirants. In the Thatcher years that was council houses and shares in utilities. Tell Sid!

Yes. It was social engineering. And very popular.

[Jones28]

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Not a pretty picture. But hey, the SNP are only a vehicle for independence...or not, as that piece concludes.

I saw Salmond doing his best to make political capital from the SNP crisis yesterday. He must be loving this. Could it be a way back to relevance for him if folk are looking for a replacement vehicle for independence?

In this persons opinion you mean.

Nobody I know is "looking" for Salmond to be the new/not new figurehead for a splinter movement. He is more than a little bit tainted.

[greenginger]

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... and create more Tories was the general idea.

The Tories were and are very good at redistributing wealth held in the collective to (usually already wealthy) individuals. Not quite what Marx had in mind!

Their trick has always been to throw just enough crumbs off the table to the aspirants. In the Thatcher years that was council houses and shares in utilities. Tell Sid!

The right for Council house tenants to buy their houses was first proposed by the Labour Party in their 1959 General Election manifesto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

[JeMeSouviens]

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The right for Council house tenants to buy their houses was first proposed by the Labour Party in their 1959 General Election manifesto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

I didn't know that. Did they propose the same deep discounts to market value and not to build more public housing stock?

[archie]

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The right for Council house tenants to buy their houses was first proposed by the Labour Party in their 1959 General Election manifesto.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Buy

This is what the manifesto said: building houses, security of tenure, rent controls, slum clearance and right to buy. The right to buy wasn't new, it was the ramped up discounts that made the difference. That was the difference the Tories made and that's why it was so popular - it was free money, if you were lucky enough to be in a desirable house.

http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manif...anifesto.shtml :

Housing

Labour's policy has two aims: to help people buy their own homes and to ensure an adequate supply of decent houses to let at a fair rent.

As a first step we shall repeal the Rent Act, restore security of tenure to decontrolled houses, stop further decontrol, and ensure fair rents by giving a right of appeal to rent tribunals.

The return of a Tory Government would mean further rent increases and the decontrol of many more houses. We say this despite the official Tory assurance that there will be no decontrol during the life of the next Parliament-for we remember what happened last time.

During the 1955 Election Mr. Bevan prophesied that rents of controlled houses would be increased if the Conservatives came back to power. Two days later the Conservative Central Office denied this, and said there was no truth in his statement. In 1957 the Conservative Government introduced the Rent Act.

Under the Tories, home purchasers have been subject to unpredictable and burden-some increases of interest rates. Labour will bring interest rates down. We shall also reform leasehold law to enable leaseholders with long leases to buy their own homes.

Council building of rented houses has been slashed under the Tories chiefly as a result of higher interest rates and the abolition of the general housing subsidy. We shall reverse their policy by restoring the subsidy and providing cheaper money for housing purposes. We shall encourage councils to press on with slum clearance.

At the last count there were seven million households in Britain with no bath, and over three million sharing or entirely without a w.c. The Tories have tried to induce private land lords to improve their property by means of public grants, with very small success. Labour's plan is that, with reasonable exceptions, local councils shall take over houses which were rent-controlled before 1 January, 1956, and are still tenanted. They will repair and modernise these houses and let them at fair rents. This is a big job which will take time and its speed will vary according to local conditions.

Every tenant, however, will have a chance first to buy from the Council the house he lives in; and all Council tenants in future will enjoy the same security of tenure as rent-restricted tenants.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Not sure why you keep suggesting posts are argumentative. Chill out man, it's a debate. Maybe try a wee green tea or something.

Anyway, of course if she has been found to lie she should resign, but that goes for any member of parliament.

You could have answered that way the first time!

[WhileTheChief..]

Radio Scotland today said the tent was only there to hide what the police were taking out of the house and putting in their van.

It would have caused a lot less drama if they had just carried out the green tote boxes with their lids closed in full view.

The tent made things look so much worse.

[Crunchie]

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Radio Scotland today said the tent was only there to hide what the police were taking out of the house and putting in their van.

It would have caused a lot less drama if they had just carried out the green tote boxes with their lids closed in full view.

The tent made things look so much worse.

As someone else has said the Murrells have had plenty of time to hide any evidence, that might not be as easy electronically. Either way our very own Bill and Hillary are as crooked as they come, who'd have thought you could amass millions working for politicians.

[Ozyhibby]

Police still searching the house now. The must suspect something really serious. Or they haven’t found anything and are getting desperate. The FBI searched Mar-a-lago quicker.


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