The Trans Rights Debate

[Stairway 2 7]

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Who gives a flying one? Christ, the veins are bursting out the establishment's neck.

Should add my exasperation isn't aimed at you.

Yep it's just a beast and its probably in the wrong thread maybe.

[147lothian]

It seems like GEN Z, 18 - 24 year old's that use TIKTOK are starting to reject gender identity politics, they are starting to call out the They/Them gremlins (That's what they call themselves) calling them weird and going too far, calling it chronically on-line behaviour, this is bad news for Nicola Sturgeon because if she thought she was tuning into what young people think, while young people on TIKTOK are turning against gender Self-ID. She has backed a lost cause. Fads come and go. The internet is not the same as the real world.

[Glory Lurker]

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It seems like GEN Z, 18 - 24 year old's that use TIKTOK are starting to reject gender identity politics, they are starting to call out the They/Them gremlins (That's what they call themselves) calling them weird and going too far, calling it chronically on-line behaviour, this is bad news for Nicola Sturgeon because if she thought she was tuning into what young people think, while young people on TIKTOK are turning against gender Self-ID. She has backed a lost cause. Fads come and go. The internet is not the same as the real world.

Whatever you've just tried to share is already down.

I can only judge then on your words. No empathy for folk dealing with trans decisions. Just acceptable collateral damage in the frenzied fight against the SNP?

[CropleyWasGod]

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It seems like GEN Z, 18 - 24 year old's that use TIKTOK are starting to reject gender identity politics, they are starting to call out the They/Them gremlins (That's what they call themselves) calling them weird and going too far, calling it chronically on-line behaviour, this is bad news for Nicola Sturgeon because if she thought she was tuning into what young people think, while young people on TIKTOK are turning against gender Self-ID. She has backed a lost cause. Fads come and go. The internet is not the same as the real world.

I lasted as long as it took her to claim that grass is an inanimate object.

[He's here!]

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In finding the 11 year old girl who is missing?

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In bringing some consistency to the issue. IIRC Police Scotland are these days meant to record incidents according to the gender those involved identify as.

[He's here!]

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https://news.stv.tv/scotland/house-cordoned-off-and-man-arrested-after-search-for-missing-11-year-old-girl-in-galashiels

No mention!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64557459


Again, no mention!!

https://planetradio.co.uk/borders/local/news/gattonside-police-search-lockdown/


This is getting ridiculous the number of news outlets missing the story!!!

I imagine now that the 'individual' has been named we'll see the story across most of tomorrow's front pages.

[Kato]

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It seems like GEN Z, 18 - 24 year old's that use TIKTOK are starting to reject gender identity politics, they are starting to call out the They/Them gremlins (That's what they call themselves) calling them weird and going too far, calling it chronically on-line behaviour, this is bad news for Nicola Sturgeon because if she thought she was tuning into what young people think, while young people on TIKTOK are turning against gender Self-ID. She has backed a lost cause. Fads come and go. The internet is not the same as the real world.

Is the evidence for this trend just this one video. I thought the he/him that/thone stuff was a trend and more people don't bother with it than do.

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[Glory Lurker]

Daily Mail down south getting hot and bothered about something to do with CoE considering gender neutrality for god.

Front page. Main story.

So much of this is about the older demographic (who vote and who have the most money) freaking at change, and this headline is emblematic of that.

It all serves to marginalise trans folk more and more. We're probably at the same point in the progress of humanity on this island as we were with gays in the 70s. I am ashamed of that.

[Ozyhibby]

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Daily Mail down south getting hot and bothered about something to do with CoE considering gender neutrality for god.

Front page. Main story.

So much of this is about the older demographic (who vote and who have the most money) freaking at change, and this headline is emblematic of that.

It all serves to marginalise trans folk more and more. We're probably at the same point in the progress of humanity on this island as we were with gays in the 70s. I am ashamed of that.

We should have a trans James Bond.


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[WeeRussell]

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It seems like GEN Z, 18 - 24 year old's that use TIKTOK are starting to reject gender identity politics, they are starting to call out the They/Them gremlins (That's what they call themselves) calling them weird and going too far, calling it chronically on-line behaviour, this is bad news for Nicola Sturgeon because if she thought she was tuning into what young people think, while young people on TIKTOK are turning against gender Self-ID. She has backed a lost cause. Fads come and go. The internet is not the same as the real world.

I don’t use til-tok, but isn’t that claim similar to saying people are starting to be racist on Facebook, which is bad news for non-racists? I.E it’s a social media platform with all sorts of ranging views, including unfortunate ones held by ignorant minorities.

Often those unfortunate ones are removed due to being inappropriate and harmful.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Daily Mail down south getting hot and bothered about something to do with CoE considering gender neutrality for god.

Front page. Main story.

So much of this is about the older demographic (who vote and who have the most money) freaking at change, and this headline is emblematic of that.

It all serves to marginalise trans folk more and more. We're probably at the same point in the progress of humanity on this island as we were with gays in the 70s. I am ashamed of that.

You'll get dog's abuse for drawing parallels with previous inequality injustices. But you're right.

[Stairway 2 7]

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You'll get dog's abuse for drawing parallels with previous inequality injustices. But you're right.

Nah its nonsense. As joanna cherry says probably the biggest group of people opposing since the start women won't wheesht, have a large section from lesbian groups. They have been fighting inequality for decades. There's obviously bigoted people that oppose GRA no doubt, but the vast majority aren't and are cross party.

In every poll almost all agree with the vast majority of trans rights improvements. They are for the right to change sex easier, get married, adopt ect, but want a few caveats. To compare that to people's opinions on LGBT in the 70s is mental

People like to group everyone in a box but it weakens their argument to just being ridiculous

[Moulin Yarns]

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I imagine now that the 'individual' has been named we'll see the story across most of tomorrow's front pages.

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/galasheils-man-charged-after-missing-11-year-old-traced-after-search-operation-by-police-and-public

A man has been charged.

[archie]

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Daily Mail down south getting hot and bothered about something to do with CoE considering gender neutrality for god.

Front page. Main story.

So much of this is about the older demographic (who vote and who have the most money) freaking at change, and this headline is emblematic of that.

It all serves to marginalise trans folk more and more. We're probably at the same point in the progress of humanity on this island as we were with gays in the 70s. I am ashamed of that.

I hesitated to respond to this as I know how it will go, but I think there are some issues with how you are representing this. While on a superficial level there are comparisons, they don't stand up to much examination. What we are witnessing now is a clash of rights. I can't think of a single case where advancing the rights of gay people took away rights from anyone else. You could argue that, at the margins, there were cases about services provided, etc. But I struggle to see any negative impact on society of providing rights for gay people, but I do see lots of positives. The current debate about trans lives is different on so many levels. While I think people are generally sympathetic and have live and let live attitudes, there is encroachment, particularly on women's rights. There have been lots of attempts on here to dismiss or minimise these on here. In addition, I do think it is legitimate to have debate about the impact on society of medicalised and drug supported pathways which are, in many cases, irreversible. That is absolutely not to say that these routes should be closed off where they are needed. But this is one reason why the link to gay rights is weak. Indeed some gay people see this as an attack on their gay identity.

Unfortunately, this has got caught up in constitutional issues. There is a defend at all costs and attack at all costs mentality, which makes serious debate on a sensitive issue almost impossible. Where people raise issues they are described as anti trans. To my mind this is the same as describing the March on Washington as anti-white. It's not an attempt to seriously engage but rather to shut down.

My issues with the bill are the vagueness and muddle that I think it represents. I have mentioned before that a close family member was involved in supporting someone who physically transitioned. Their story could not be further from the noise that passes for debate just now.

[Glory Lurker]

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I hesitated to respond to this as I know how it will go, but I think there are some issues with how you are representing this. While on a superficial level there are comparisons, they don't stand up to much examination. What we are witnessing now is a clash of rights. I can't think of a single case where advancing the rights of gay people took away rights from anyone else. You could argue that, at the margins, there were cases about services provided, etc. But I struggle to see any negative impact on society of providing rights for gay people, but I do see lots of positives. The current debate about trans lives is different on so many levels. While I think people are generally sympathetic and have live and let live attitudes, there is encroachment, particularly on women's rights. There have been lots of attempts on here to dismiss or minimise these on here. In addition, I do think it is legitimate to have debate about the impact on society of medicalised and drug supported pathways which are, in many cases, irreversible. That is absolutely not to say that these routes should be closed off where they are needed. But this is one reason why the link to gay rights is weak. Indeed some gay people see this as an attack on their gay identity.

Unfortunately, this has got caught up in constitutional issues. There is a defend at all costs and attack at all costs mentality, which makes serious debate on a sensitive issue almost impossible. Where people raise issues they are described as anti trans. To my mind this is the same as describing the March on Washington as anti-white. It's not an attempt to seriously engage but rather to shut down.

My issues with the bill are the vagueness and muddle that I think it represents. I have mentioned before that a close family member was involved in supporting someone who physically transitioned. Their story could not be further from the noise that passes for debate just now.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with a lot of it.

I don't expect folk to remember but I've said already on this thread that I don't have a view on the GRA as I don't know enough about it. I've had plenty of time to address that but I haven't and am still not informed enough to say anything one way or the other.

My posts aren't about the GRA. What I am appalled at is how it is suddenly open season on trans people generally. It is just as it used to be with gay people.

[He's here!]

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https://news.stv.tv/east-central/galasheils-man-charged-after-missing-11-year-old-traced-after-search-operation-by-police-and-public

A man has been charged.

Most outlets are now going with 'transgender butcher'. Could be yet another new niche gender I guess:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64563472

[147lothian]

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I don’t use til-tok, but isn’t that claim similar to saying people are starting to be racist on Facebook, which is bad news for non-racists? I.E it’s a social media platform with all sorts of ranging views, including unfortunate ones held by ignorant minorities.

Often those unfortunate ones are removed due to being inappropriate and harmful.

I don't use tiktok either but that is no-where near what is being claimed all that is being said is that the more outlandish claims for example people identifying as a frog or wolf are being called out, which I guess was always going to happen because they were making the platform look ridiculous, so was always going to happen eventually, all that is being said is claims of identifying as something that is removed from reality is a fad, which users have got fed up with.

[WeeRussell]

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I don't use tiktok either but that is no-where near what is being claimed all that is being said is that the more outlandish claims for example people identifying as a frog or wolf are being called out, which I guess was always going to happen because they were making the platform look ridiculous, so was always going to happen eventually, all that is being said is claims of identifying as something that is removed from reality is a fad, which users have got fed up with.

When I said claimed I was referring to your positioning of things that it’s bad news for Nicola Sturgeon that something is being said on tik-tok.. when pretty much anything and everything is likely to be said on tik-tok.

Like I say, I don’t know that much about the platform so won’t argue the point any further 👍

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this, but it piqued my interest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/god-is-neither-male-nor-female-church-of-england-is-considering-gender-neutral-terms-12805759

PC gone mad, or an acceptance of the Divine Feminine?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this, but it piqued my interest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/god-is-neither-male-nor-female-church-of-england-is-considering-gender-neutral-terms-12805759

PC gone mad, or an acceptance of the Divine Feminine?

Think it's something that will never happen but will be used by papers to try and froth anger on both sides, a bit like no schools singing bah bah blacksheep. Best ignored

[CropleyWasGod]

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Think it's something that will never happen but will be used by papers to try and froth anger on both sides, a bit like no schools singing bah bah blacksheep. Best ignored

I won't be ignoring it. 😀 I'm always open to.the DF concept, but that's perhaps for a separate thread

[Stairway 2 7]

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I won't be ignoring it. 😀 I'm always open to.the DF concept, but that's perhaps for a separate thread

I've no skin in the game as I think it's all rhubarb. I would have similar interests in the spiderman canon.

[Ozyhibby]

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I've no skin in the game as I think it's all rhubarb. I would have similar interests in the spiderman canon.

I’ve had my suspicions, what with the tights and all…


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[Stairway 2 7]

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I’ve had my suspicions, what with the tights and all…


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Spiderman fans would get their Web in a twist if you called them tights, unless you're talking about the church but I think that's more frocks

[Kato]

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Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this, but it piqued my interest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sk...terms-12805759

PC gone mad, or an acceptance of the Divine Feminine?

The ancient Greeks, Aramiacs and Hebrews had this discussion millenia ago.

Iirc the answer they came up with is that God is "ineffable".

I don't have the words to describe what that means.

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[Pretty Boy]

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The ancient Greeks, Aramiacs and Hebrews had this discussion millenia ago.

Iirc the answer they came up with is that God is "ineffable".

I don't have the words to describe what that means.

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[Moulin Yarns]

https://youtu.be/hjcXXkOHTeU

When God was a girl. 😉

[He's here!]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...rance-29173549

Interesting to see he's still being referred to as a man despite identifying as a female. Wonder how he'll be referred to in court.

It'll certainly save Sturgeon tying herself in knots again if the media stick with 'man'.

[WeeRussell]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...rance-29173549

Interesting to see he's still being referred to as a man despite identifying as a female. Wonder how he'll be referred to in court.

It'll certainly save Sturgeon tying herself in knots again if the media stick with 'man'.

Have you ever thought of being a linesman?

[147lothian]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...rance-29173549

Interesting to see he's still being referred to as a man despite identifying as a female. Wonder how he'll be referred to in court.

It'll certainly save Sturgeon tying herself in knots again if the media stick with 'man'.

Very interesting read, Ella Wheelan, exposed how Gender Self-ID doesn't stand up to scrutiny on Question Time when Jenny Gilruth tied herself in knots trying to evade her question.

Also Nicola Sturgeon has done mental gymnastics trying to defend Gender Self-ID, there is starting to be a realization within the SNP that making a niche issue a constitutional battle is political suicide considering the conflict in interests between trans rights to have Gender Self-ID and the rights of biological women to have same sex spaces. Trans women are women except when they're rapists is an Orwellian absurdity.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinio...askill-4018179