Brexit - What Now.

**~~James310~~** · 31-01-2023 02:48 PM

Lol

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/201.../croa-f15.html

EU imposes harsh austerity on Croatia, its newest member

The austerity measures the EU is forcing throughout the continent have had a major impact on Croatia. The country has been in continuous recession since 2009, with GDP contracting by almost 20 percent by 2012. A further drop is expected in 2013. The government was forced to slash its 2014 growth estimate from the previous 1.3 percent to only 0.2 percent, as the result of the latest cuts demanded by the EU.

**archie** · 31-01-2023 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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I'd like to know how the EU imposed austerity on Croatia.

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Through measures that required the Croatian government to carry out to meet criteria for joining. Also imposed on Greece as a member.

**~~James310~~** · 31-01-2023 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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I'd like to know how the EU imposed austerity on Croatia.

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What do you think happened in Greece? All their own choice was it?

***Kato*** · 31-01-2023 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by James310

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What do you think happened in Greece? All their own choice was it?

Sanctions if they didn't meet certain criteria.

The EU weren't to blame for either Greece or Croatia's economic problems, an independent Scotland wouldn't be in as bad a situation, if we get away quickly enough.

Seems to have worked for Croatia. 9 years down the line their economy is growing and considered fit enough to join the Euro.

We've had 13 years of austerity here and the latest economic forecasts are abysmal.

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***grunt*** · 31-01-2023 02:58 PM

All of this argument about how hard it will be for Scotland to get back into the EU misses the main point of this thread: we were already in the EU and the ****ing Tories took us out against our will.

This man - I have no words to describe how I feel about him. https://twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/st...AuheF7cjz2sCJg

**archie** · 31-01-2023 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by grunt

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All of this argument about how hard it will be for Scotland to get back into the EU misses the main point of this thread: we were already in the EU and the ****ing Tories took us out against our will.

This man - I have no words to describe how I feel about him. https://twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/st...AuheF7cjz2sCJg

Actually 'we' weren't.

**archie** · 31-01-2023 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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Sanctions if they didn't meet certain criteria.

The EU weren't to blame for either Greece or Croatia's economic problems, an independent Scotland wouldn't be in as bad a situation, if we get away quickly enough.

Seems to have worked for Croatia. 9 years down the line their economy is growing and considered fit enough to join the Euro.

We've had 13 years of austerity here and the latest economic forecasts are abysmal.

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That's true. But as a condition of entry (or in Greece's case not tumbling out) the countries were required to take steps. Scotland wouldn't be any different, but we don't know any impact that would have until we know what the post independence economy was like.

***Kato*** · 31-01-2023 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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That's true. But as a condition of entry (or in Greece's case not tumbling out) the countries were required to take steps. Scotland wouldn't be any different, but we don't know any impact that would have until we know what the post independence economy was like.

It's a gamble.

Staying in the UK is also a gamble.

If we were to go through an austerity process with EU monitoring that should be balanced against what we have just now.

Plenty of room for partnerships and forward thinking policies with an aim of following the likes of Croatia and Ireland within the EU to some kind of prosperity and optimism.

I struggle to see where the chances of economic growth are within a crumbling, rudderless, uninvestable UK.

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***grunt*** · 31-01-2023 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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Actually 'we' weren't.

Yes we were?

***Ozyhibby*** · 31-01-2023 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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It's a gamble.

Staying in the UK is also a gamble.

If we were to go through an austerity process with EU monitoring that should be balanced against what we have just now.

Plenty of room for partnerships and forward thinking policies with an aim of following the likes of Croatia and Ireland within the EU to some kind of prosperity and optimism.

I struggle to see where the chances of economic growth are within a crumbling, rudderless, uninvestable UK.

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Yip. We are nowhere near to seeing how bad brexit really is yet. There is a lot worse to come. Investment in the UK has stalled altogether now but we are only three years in. Imagine what it’s going to look like in 10 years. Grim.

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**archie** · 31-01-2023 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by grunt

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Yes we were?

Not as a member state.

**archie** · 31-01-2023 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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It's a gamble.

Staying in the UK is also a gamble.

If we were to go through an austerity process with EU monitoring that should be balanced against what we have just now.

Plenty of room for partnerships and forward thinking policies with an aim of following the likes of Croatia and Ireland within the EU to some kind of prosperity and optimism.

I struggle to see where the chances of economic growth are within a crumbling, rudderless, uninvestable UK.

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I would point out that the UK is the 6th largest economy in the world. But looking forward, what partnerships and forward looking policies do you have in mind?

***Stairway 2 7*** · 31-01-2023 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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Yip. We are nowhere near to seeing how bad brexit really is yet. There is a lot worse to come. Investment in the UK has stalled altogether now but we are only three years in. Imagine what it’s going to look like in 10 years. Grim.

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The same imf report everyone is quoting, says after the drop next year GDP will grow about 1% each year for 2024 and 2025. I'm not saying brexit isn't horrible for the economy as it is but it accounts for only a proportion of our gdp growth

***grunt*** · 31-01-2023 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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Not as a member state.

What a bizarre comment! I live in Scotland. Scotland was in the EU. So was I in the EU? Yes I was.

There are people on this board who would argue black was white just for the fun of it.

**archie** · 31-01-2023 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by grunt

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What a bizarre comment! I live in Scotland. Scotland was in the EU. So was I in the EU? Yes I was.

There are people on this board who would argue black was white just for the fun of it.

I think you are doing that very thing. It's very clear States are members of the EU, not individuals.The UK was the member state. Had Scotland voted yes we would have been out and had to reapply.

***Kato*** · 31-01-2023 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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I would point out that the UK is the 6th largest economy in the world. But looking forward, what partnerships and forward looking policies do you have in mind?

Partnerships with EU countries, specifically partnerships regarding climate change policies.

Your first sentence I find a bit farcical. It might be the 6th largest economy in the world. How is that benefitting the country as a whole? Who actually benefits from that? The vast majority do not, a small minority do while bragging about handing out benefits (and at the same time seeking to shame those who have to take them.)

The UK must be the most topsy-turvy economy in the world if its the 6th largest but it fails to pay its workforces properly. Schools crumbling, armed forces a joke, health services shocking, judiciary being shrunk.

30 new billionaires last year though.

What do you extract from phrase "6th largest economy"? For me it's just gobbledygook, like the "fastest growing economy" rubbish they were coming out with last year.

So many are struggling and many are teetering on the brink.

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**~~James310~~** · 31-01-2023 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by grunt

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What a bizarre comment! I live in Scotland. Scotland was in the EU. So was I in the EU? Yes I was.

There are people on this board who would argue black was white just for the fun of it.

The UK was a member of the EU. Scotland being part of the UK was in the EU. That's why your ballot paper in 2016 said should the UK Leave or Remain, not Scotland.

As I keep saying, facts matter.

***Ozyhibby*** · 31-01-2023 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by James310

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The UK was a member of the EU. Scotland being part of the UK was in the EU. That's why your ballot paper in 2016 said should the UK Leave or Remain, not Scotland.

As I keep saying, facts matter.

In 2014 young Scots were EU citizens and now they are not. That’s a fact.

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**~~James310~~** · 31-01-2023 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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In 2014 young Scots were EU citizens and now they are not. That’s a fact.

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I don't disagree, that's a fact like the UK was the member state is a fact.

**archie** · 31-01-2023 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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Partnerships with EU countries, specifically partnerships regarding climate change policies.

Your first sentence I find a bit farcical. It might be the 6th largest economy in the world. How is that benefitting the country as a whole? Who actually benefits from that? The vast majority do not, a small minority do while bragging about handing out benefits (and at the same time seeking to shame those who have to take them.)

The UK must be the most topsy-turvy economy in the world if its the 6th largest but it fails to pay its workforces properly. Schools crumbling, armed forces a joke, health services shocking, judiciary being shrunk.

30 new billionaires last year though.

What do you extract from phrase "6th largest economy"? For me it's just gobbledygook, like the "fastest growing economy" rubbish they were coming out with last year.

So many are struggling and many are teetering on the brink.

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Thanks for responding. I don't think it's any more farcical to say that the UK is the sixth largest economy in the world than saying how rich Ireland is . The top line indicators mask the very real issues for people. I would say the UK economic position, with the right people running it, provides a platform to improve people's lives. I suspect you won't agree, but I would say that needs a change of UKG asap. On that I think you would agree.

***Just Alf*** · 31-01-2023 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by James310

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I don't disagree, that's a fact like the UK was the member state is a fact.

I'm struggling to see the relevance of your original comment bringing it up as an issue then?

All it did was side track the discussion??

**~~James310~~** · 31-01-2023 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Just Alf

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I'm struggling to see the relevance of your original comment bringing it up as an issue then?

All it did was side track the discussion??

Look back and a number of posts about was Scotland a member state and a few posts about it. If that's what you are talking about.

***Just Alf*** · 31-01-2023 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by James310

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Look back and a number of posts about was Scotland a member state and a few posts about it. If that's what you are talking about.

But the context was clearly as part of the UK, of course we weren't a member in our own right?

Sorry, maybe I've just misread it all and folks really do think we were members in our own right.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 31-01-2023 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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Not as a member state.

And that's why independence is the answer!

***Moulin Yarns*** · 31-01-2023 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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I think you are doing that very thing. It's very clear States are members of the EU, not individuals.The UK was the member state. Had Scotland voted yes we would have been out and had to reapply.

And would be a lot closer to being a member again had there been a yes vote in 2014.