The Trans Rights Debate

[Hibby Bairn]

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Now that we can’t pass legislation that the Tories in England don’t like, I’m wondering what the point of the parliament is?


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No point really. Waste of money. No talent in there anymore. Get rid asap.

[Moulin Yarns]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...gn=Social_Flow

The end of devolution.


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Must have been leaked to the BBC! Chris Mason outside holyrood at 6pm news!

[He's here!]

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Slowly Scotlands rights will be no more, the democratic Scottish Parliamentoveruled because Westminster dont like it, welcome to Brexit Britain.

This is the first time an s35 has been used in the lifetime of the Scottish Parliament. Hardly indicative of regular, overbearing Westminster meddling. In this instance though I can't see that the UK government had any choice but to call out flawed legislation.

[Ozyhibby]

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No point really. Waste of money. No talent in there anymore. Get rid asap.

Seems to be the plan.


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[James310]

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https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-u...on-reform-bill

No real point posting this stuff I suppose. It’s now a constitutional issue.


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It's not, it's a legal and competency issue. Make some amendments and it's all good.

I fully expect it to be framed as you have done a lot over the next few days and no doubt it's yet another reason for Independence, but I suspect like every other issue that has come before this one it also won't make any difference to Independence.

[He's here!]

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https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-u...on-reform-bill

No real point posting this stuff I suppose. It’s now a constitutional issue.


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Predictably swift (and wholly wrong) move to label this move as anti-trans - something Sturgeon will doubtless to frame her 'outrage' around.

[Ozyhibby]

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Predictably swift (and wholly wrong) move to label this move as anti-trans - something Sturgeon will doubtless to frame her 'outrage' around.

Personally I don’t think there is any care about trans people. This is about attacking the parliament. The UK govt wants to strip its powers. The poor trans people are just collateral damage.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/labourrichard/st...2ckL0F60SnLGrA

First comment from Labour I’ve seen?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Trans issue will be hijacked for the next few months to boost independence. If its legal the courts will decide and it will correctly stand, if not it will correctly get binned.

Win for the lawyers and politicians. Most public probably don't care

[Ozyhibby]

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Trans issue will be hijacked for the next few months to boost independence. If its legal the courts will decide and it will correctly stand, if not it will correctly get binned.

Win for the lawyers and politicians. Most public probably don't care

I think it was hijacked in the service of the union today. I don’t believe for a minute Jack give a hoot about any of the issues involved.
I agree the public don’t care much about the issue though. They do care about the parliament though.


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[Hibby Bairn]

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I think it was hijacked in the service of the union today. I don’t believe for a minute Jack give a hoot about any of the issues involved.
I agree the public don’t care much about the issue though. They do care about the parliament though.


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I'm not sure they do care about the Parliament. What they care about is getting an ambulance, cared for in old age, good schools, properly looked after in hospital, access to a dentist, security of income when support of the state is needed, law and order, decent transport, good roads etc etc.

It's up to the government and Parliament to deliver that. If the Scottish version can't do it well enough then an alternative needs to be found.

It'd be good if the SG could focus on the core devolved matters to the same extent it seems to have this issue.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I think it was hijacked in the service of the union today. I don’t believe for a minute Jack give a hoot about any of the issues involved.
I agree the public don’t care much about the issue though. They do care about the parliament though.


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Jack wont personally, but if it isn't legal they will have
to get involved. Theres hundreds of laws scot gov has passed that uk gov hasn't touched.

Doubt your average person does care about parliament, most are against parts of this law. I think the majority think all mps/msps are ***** to be honest.

[James310]

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I think it was hijacked in the service of the union today. I don’t believe for a minute Jack give a hoot about any of the issues involved.
I agree the public don’t care much about the issue though. They do care about the parliament though.


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You are a bit detached from reality if you think people are waking up caring about the Parliament. I have said on here numerous times people care about their health, their job and for example why aren't their kids at school today.

I am sure you have said similar for a while and everytime it amounts to nothing.

[Rumble de Thump]

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You are a bit detached from reality if you think people are waking up caring about the Parliament. I have said on here numerous times people care about their health, their job and for example why aren't their kids at school today.

I am sure you have said similar for a while and everytime it amounts to nothing.

The biggest threat to all the issues you've mentioned, and any others you could mention, is the Conservative Party. Unfortunately, that's the reality everyone in Scotland is having to deal with. They've been an unmitigated disaster for our society and only show signs of getting worse.

[James310]

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The biggest threat to all the issues you've mentioned, and any others you could mention, is the Conservative Party. Unfortunately, that's the reality everyone in Scotland is having to deal with. They've been an unmitigated disaster for our society and only show signs of getting worse.

That's a valid opinion that you and many others hold, the problem you have is just being angry at the Tories isn't enough. The alternative offering needs to be clear, I really don't think that is the case in Scotland, it's clear in rUK the alternative is Labour in power. If your way out is Independence then a few leaflets isn't cutting through the way the SNP probably wanted it to.

Anyway this is about the GRA.

[CropleyWasGod]

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https://twitter.com/labourrichard/st...2ckL0F60SnLGrA

First comment from Labour I’ve seen?


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Not sure that Richard Leonard is the most reliable authority on devolution tbh

But Monica Lennon has just tweeted in similar terms.

[James310]

Yikes, a car crash interview from Maggie Chapman of the Greens. That won't help the SG if anyone was listening to that.

https://youtu.be/TDRyJzPUAKg

Also when pressed said we should be exploring allowing 8 year old children to legally change their gender.

I can't help but feel the Greens (a party supposedly set up to protect the environment) have been swept up in this by a group of trans activists and now the SNP are part of it due to their coalition agreement. I mean 8 year olds?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Yikes, a car crash interview from Maggie Chapman of the Greens. That won't help the SG if anyone was listening to that.

https://youtu.be/TDRyJzPUAKg

Also when pressed said we should be exploring allowing 8 year old children to legally change their gender.

I can't help but feel the Greens (a party supposedly set up to protect the environment) have been swept up in this by a group of trans activists and now the SNP are part of it due to their coalition agreement. I mean 8 year olds?

I've mentioned her before, an utter lunatic

[James310]

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I've mentioned her before, an utter lunatic

She didn't understand half the questions she was being asked, and she is a legislator in Scotland. Yes other parties have just as bad but it was painful. We all deserve better.

[WeeRussell]

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I suspect like every other issue that has come before this one it also won't make any difference to Independence.

😂 Ah James. Still so confident about independence not having a hope in hell of happening that you spend all day every day trying to convince yourself on here I see.

And you’re accusing others of being out of touch with reality.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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😂 Ah James. Still so confident about independence not having a hope in hell of happening that you spend all day every day trying to convince yourself on here I see.

And you’re accusing others of being out of touch with reality.

The sad thing is, the only reason they're so confident it won't happen is due to undemocratic measures that effectively silence Scotland. Yet they don't seem to understand why that's a problem.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/peatworrier/stat...Y7Pk0bocvinkIA

Interesting thread on why a s35 order was used.


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[WeeRussell]

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The sad thing is, the only reason they're so confident it won't happen is due to undemocratic measures that effectively silence Scotland. Yet they don't seem to understand why that's a problem.

Don’t or won’t..

I agree with you completely - however, probably best we don’t take this thread off tangent any further and take these points to the independence thread to save being told to do so 👍

[He's here!]

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Yikes, a car crash interview from Maggie Chapman of the Greens. That won't help the SG if anyone was listening to that.

https://youtu.be/TDRyJzPUAKg

Also when pressed said we should be exploring allowing 8 year old children to legally change their gender.

I can't help but feel the Greens (a party supposedly set up to protect the environment) have been swept up in this by a group of trans activists and now the SNP are part of it due to their coalition agreement. I mean 8 year olds?

That's a toe-curling listen. Scary in fact. Aside from the alarming stuff about eight-year-olds, her attempt to back up her assertion that sex is not binary amounted to incoherent nonsense when asked the straightforward question: "Can you point to an example of a human being changing their biological sex?"

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/16...Y7Pk0bocvinkIA

Nothing from Starmer yet? He was all about devolving power away from Westminster last week?


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[He's here!]

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She didn't understand half the questions she was being asked, and she is a legislator in Scotland. Yes other parties have just as bad but it was painful. We all deserve better.

That's probably the most alarming aspect. Perhaps no surprise this legislation was so botched if she was at the forefront of it.

[Ozyhibby]

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That's probably the most alarming aspect. Perhaps no surprise this legislation was so botched if she was at the forefront of it.

Was she at the forefront of it?


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[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Don’t or won’t..

I agree with you completely - however, probably best we don’t take this thread off tangent any further and take these points to the independence thread to save being told to do so 👍

Good point. Sometimes I reply to a comment in a thread and it goes off tangent and I forget the thread is about something else entirely.

On the subject of this thread, i'm surprised there's still so much confusion surrounding this bill and what it actually means. I still see arguments against the bill which have no relation to the bill itself and actually date back to the Scotland Equality Act of 2010. There appears to be a great deal of concern for laws that these people don't realize have been in place for over 12 years now.

It was infuriating to hear Keir Starmer today accuse the Scottish Government of using the Gender Recognition Reform bill as a "political football", when that's exactly what he is planning to do in tandem with the Conservative Party. Anything to try and gain an upper arm with a fringe minority south of the border. They are playing with people's lives.

[He's here!]

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It's not, it's a legal and competency issue. Make some amendments and it's all good.

I fully expect it to be framed as you have done a lot over the next few days and no doubt it's yet another reason for Independence, but I suspect like every other issue that has come before this one it also won't make any difference to Independence.

Perhaps if the SNP and Green MSPs (with the exception of the SNP rebels) had been less tin-eared when sensible amendments were being proposed we might not have reached this situation.

[He's here!]

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Jack wont personally, but if it isn't legal they will have
to get involved. Theres hundreds of laws scot gov has passed that uk gov hasn't touched.

Doubt your average person does care about parliament, most are against parts of this law. I think the majority think all mps/msps are ***** to be honest.

Precisely. The fact that this is the first time in the history of the Scottish Parliament that an s35 has been deemed necessary tells the story. This is flawed legislation, pure and simple.