The Trans Rights Debate

[He's here!]

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So it's not been banned then?

Hopefully not.

[He's here!]

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Thanks for posting this, it articulates well importance of the reality of biological sex to be acknowledged for women's sex based rights, I tried to find it on YouTube but its not there, any idea if it's on any other platform?

There are some details about where you can watch it here:

realitymatters (@AHFdoco) / Twitter

[147lothian]

Some people think that Nichola Sturgeon's gender recognition certificate or gender self-ID is fine because it's only about being kind to the small amount of people who have the mental health condition gender dysphoria. While feminist's argue that in the real world gender self-ID will be exploited by predatory men and pedophiles, who are normally just straight men who see a loop in the law and exploit it to gain access to woman only spaces, making it a woman's safety and child protection issue.

Gender self-ID is not good for trans people because they are going to be tarred with the same brush when things like this happen a 25 year old male pedophile who identifies as a woman and got a 14 year old girl pregnant. This is what happens when trans rights meets reality.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Some people think that Nichola Sturgeon's gender recognition certificate or gender self-ID is fine because it's only about being kind to the small amount of people who have the mental health condition gender dysphoria. While feminist's argue that in the real world gender self-ID will be exploited by predatory men and pedophiles, who are normally just straight men who see a loop in the law and exploit it to gain access to woman only spaces, making it a woman's safety and child protection issue.

Gender self-ID is not good for trans people because they are going to be tarred with the same brush when things like this happen a 25 year old male pedophile who identifies as a a woman and got a 14 year old girl pregnant. This is what happens when trans rights meets reality.

Switched off as soon as I saw who was 'reporting'

[He's here!]

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Some people think that Nichola Sturgeon's gender recognition certificate or gender self-ID is fine because it's only about being kind to the small amount of people who have the mental health condition gender dysphoria. While feminist's argue that in the real world gender self-ID will be exploited by predatory men and pedophiles, who are normally just straight men who see a loop in the law and exploit it to gain access to woman only spaces, making it a woman's safety and child protection issue.

Gender self-ID is not good for trans people because they are going to be tarred with the same brush when things like this happen a 25 year old male pedophile who identifies as a a woman and got a 14 year old girl pregnant. This is what happens when trans rights meets reality.

The issues raised in that clip highlight just how absurd the tiptoeing around this issue has become. It would be almost laughable if the consequences in this case hadn't been so devastating.

[archie]

Wow - what a move from JK Rowling https://suzannemoore.substack.com/p/...ith-jk-rowling

[superfurryhibby]

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Switched off as soon as I saw who was 'reporting'

A horrible source of news but it's an even more horrible story. I wonder what pro GRA activists have to say about this kind of thing? Or is it a case of just brushing it under the carpet, like you so clearly did previously when people posted about the deviant who abused a child and was accommodated at a woman only hostel in Fife?

[superfurryhibby]

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Wow - what a move from JK Rowling https://suzannemoore.substack.com/p/...ith-jk-rowling

"This is Beira’s Place.  

It is a new support and advocacy service for women who have experienced sexual violence, it has been funded by J.K. Rowling, and it opens today. It has been set up to meet an unmet need from female survivors for a women-only service, as there is not one currently available in the area.  

There is a slight nervousness. How have they kept this all quiet? But they have pulled it off! They are opening today. Anything with Rowling’s name attached is bound to attract attention. The optics of anyone targeting a rape crisis centre would look bad but such is the situation in Scotland that there have been protestors screaming at women going into parliament to give harrowing testimony about their experiences.


Edinburgh’s one Rape Crisis is currently already over subscribed and somewhat controversial. Its stance that survivors may need to be re-educated about trans rights as part of recovering from trauma does not suit many of its users. The idea that survivors who have “unacceptable beliefs” should have their prejudices challenged, begs the question of who the service is for.

This pushing of a political view onto a woman at a time of profound trauma and crisis does not feel appropriate? Is it ethical? Professional? Many survivors do not feel comfortable about all this and repeatedly ask to be cared for by women. And by women only. Some may even refuse this service as a result"

[KWJ]

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A horrible source of news but it's an even more horrible story. I wonder what pro GRA activists have to say about this kind of thing? Or is it a case of just brushing it under the carpet, like you so clearly did when people posted about the deviant who abused a child and was accommodated at a woman only hostel in Fife?

It is a horrible story, here it is on BBC . It doesn't seem right to me to immediately jump on it being because they are trans, or as I assume you are suggesting, faking being trans. How many stories of transwoman lives happy, kind life would you need to read until the term transwoman isn't a red flag?

There's horrible people out there and they take all forms.

[superfurryhibby]

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It is a horrible story, here it is on BBC . It doesn't seem right to me to immediately jump on it being because they are trans, or as I assume you are suggesting, faking being trans. How many stories of transwoman lives happy, kind life would you need to read until the term transwoman isn't a red flag?

There's horrible people out there and they take all forms.

I totally support people's right to transition and I'm very comfortable with the concept, with some provisos around what the term transition means in terms of accessing female only protected spaces

I'm not really understanding your point when you say this "How many stories of transwoman lives happy, kind life would you need to read until the term transwoman isn't a red flag? ?

[KWJ]

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I totally support people's right to transition and I'm very comfortable with the concept, with some provisos around what the term transition means in terms of accessing female only protected spaces

I'm not really understanding your point when you say this "How many stories of transwoman lives happy, kind life would you need to read until the term transwoman isn't a red flag? ?

It read to me that you were sharing the story as if to say See what "transwoman" do!. Good to read that's not the case.

[He's here!]

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"This is Beira’s Place.  

It is a new support and advocacy service for women who have experienced sexual violence, it has been funded by J.K. Rowling, and it opens today. It has been set up to meet an unmet need from female survivors for a women-only service, as there is not one currently available in the area.  

There is a slight nervousness. How have they kept this all quiet? But they have pulled it off! They are opening today. Anything with Rowling’s name attached is bound to attract attention. The optics of anyone targeting a rape crisis centre would look bad but such is the situation in Scotland that there have been protestors screaming at women going into parliament to give harrowing testimony about their experiences.


Edinburgh’s one Rape Crisis is currently already over subscribed and somewhat controversial. Its stance that survivors may need to be re-educated about trans rights as part of recovering from trauma does not suit many of its users. The idea that survivors who have “unacceptable beliefs” should have their prejudices challenged, begs the question of who the service is for.

This pushing of a political view onto a woman at a time of profound trauma and crisis does not feel appropriate? Is it ethical? Professional? Many survivors do not feel comfortable about all this and repeatedly ask to be cared for by women. And by women only. Some may even refuse this service as a result"

It's extraordinary that these are issues women who have suffered in this way should even have to be considering.

This is a phenomenal move from JKR. Hats off to her. Wonder what 'real feminist' Sturgeon makes of it.

[superfurryhibby]

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It's extraordinary that these are issues women who have suffered in this way should even have to be considering.

This is a phenomenal move from JKR. Hats off to her. Wonder what 'real feminist' Sturgeon makes of it.

It's absolutely shocking that it takes someone willing to bankroll a service in order to unequivocally support female victims of sexual harm in Edinburgh. The Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre has been very deliberately politicised through the appointment of their CEO. It's a ****ing tragedy that a pioneering service that was once at the forefront of supporting women should have become a barrier to offering the support of women in a crisis.

JK Rowling's magnanimous gesture is so welcomed. I'm not a fan of her books or of her views on independence, but she has shown remarkable courage and commitment by continuing to speak out against the madness of the current GRA proposals. Total respect to her for standing up for women's rights and resisting the ignorant cult following fashionistas that have indicated their displeasure in the media.

[He's here!]

Ban alleged rapists changing gender during trial, SNP MSP Michelle Thomson urges Sturgeon | Scotland | The Times

Don't imagine Sturgeon will look too favourably on Thomson working with the Tories on this proposed amendment.

[Mcbizz1998]

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Switched off as soon as I saw who was 'reporting'

Seems like a good way to remain in your echo chamber.

[Stairway 2 7]

Trans charity announce they will be releasing scientific data this week that shows being trans is a biological condition. They are flooded with hundreds of replies from trans people saying don't release this. It will stop self identification and effect people who don't pass this 'test'

Probably agree, sounds a bit like the search for the gay gene

https://mobile.twitter.com/TransLuce...75586745991172

[CropleyWasGod]

Probably not for this thread, but it's interesting that Beira's Place supports the Nordic Model for sex workers. By doing so, they are positioning themselves directly in conflict with just about every SW-led organisation in the World.

I also wonder whether they will be open to supporting trans victims of sexual violence.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Probably not for this thread, but it's interesting that Beira's Place supports the Nordic Model for sex workers. By doing so, they are positioning themselves directly in conflict with every SW-led organisation in the World.

I also wonder whether they will be open to supporting trans victims of sexual violence.

Don't snp favour a similar style to the nordic model, personally think its backwards.

And isn't beira place for biological females only, so not for biological men?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Don't snp favour a similar style to the nordic model, personally think its backwards.

And isn't beira place for biological females only, so not for biological men?

The SNP voted for the NM at their conference a few years ago. I don't think it's been fully adopted yet, as there were so few people who actually voted. Ash Regan was pushing for it before she resigned.

On the second point, does that mean trans men could use the service 🤔?

[Stairway 2 7]

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The SNP voted for the NM at their conference a few years ago. I don't think it's been fully adopted yet, as there were so few people who actually voted. Ash Regan was pushing for it before she resigned.

On the second point, does that mean trans men could use the service 🤔?

You'd assume so but maybe they don't want people with high levels of testosterone there. That's a presumption though, I'd look at their website?

[archie]

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The SNP voted for the NM at their conference a few years ago. I don't think it's been fully adopted yet, as there were so few people who actually voted. Ash Regan was pushing for it before she resigned.

On the second point, does that mean trans men could use the service 🤔?

I think your final question exposes the heart of the issue. My concern with the draft legislation is the vagueness of the definitions. I think people view differently someone who has fully transitioned compared to someone who, say, identifies as a woman but is a man.

[archie]

And tomorrow will be significant https://twitter.com/DSanderson_85/st...73566875127808

[superfurryhibby]

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The SNP voted for the NM at their conference a few years ago. I don't think it's been fully adopted yet, as there were so few people who actually voted. Ash Regan was pushing for it before she resigned.

On the second point, does that mean trans men could use the service 🤔?

"Our service is open to women only, aged 16 and over and who live in the Lothians (East Lothian, Midlothian/Edinburgh City, and West Lothian). The centre is women only and all staff are women[1].

At Beira’s Place we offer face to face support to survivors of any form of sexual violence, abuse and sexual exploitation, no matter when this has happened in their lives. Support appointments last up to one hour and are usually weekly. If weekly appointments are difficult (for example, for shift workers), this can be changed to suit the woman and her support worker. Some evening appointments will be available"

It's a service for women only, but I suspect you already know this.

Why would a man, trans or whatever want to go there? That seems like a strange question. Do you mean someone with a vulva who self identifies as a man and has been the victim of sexual violence?

[CropleyWasGod]

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"Our service is open to women only, aged 16 and over and who live in the Lothians (East Lothian, Midlothian/Edinburgh City, and West Lothian). The centre is women only and all staff are women[1].

At Beira’s Place we offer face to face support to survivors of any form of sexual violence, abuse and sexual exploitation, no matter when this has happened in their lives. Support appointments last up to one hour and are usually weekly. If weekly appointments are difficult (for example, for shift workers), this can be changed to suit the woman and her support worker. Some evening appointments will be available"

It's a service for women only, but I suspect you already know this.

Why would a man, trans or whatever want to go there? That seems like a strange question. Do you mean someone with a vulva who self identifies as a man and has been the victim of sexual violence?

By trans man, I mean someone who has fully transitioned from being a woman to being a man.

I thought it a reasonable question. Much is made of the definition of a woman, and I was genuinely interested.

[James310]

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I think your final question exposes the heart of the issue. My concern with the draft legislation is the vagueness of the definitions. I think people view differently someone who has fully transitioned compared to someone who, say, identifies as a woman but is a man.

Someone who has fully transitioned has made a significant life changing commitment. Someone who sits in their bedroom for 3 months and now declares they are a woman by filling in an online form has not. But this bill I believe treats them equally?

[He's here!]

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Someone who has fully transitioned has made a significant life changing commitment. Someone who sits in their bedroom for 3 months and now declares they are a woman by filling in an online form has not. But this bill I believe treats them equally?

You wouldn't need to sit in your bedroom for three months, or indeed do anything to prove you've been living in your a acquired gender as under the new legislation no evidence, medical or otherwise, will be required.

[superfurryhibby]

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By trans man, I mean someone who has fully transitioned from being a woman to being a man.

I thought it a reasonable question. Much is made of the defiof a woman, and I was genuinely interested.

If they have fully transitioned then they are a man. I have a family member who has done exactly this. He has a beard and a boaby, he's a bloke and if he ever (god forbid) needed a service for support then an all female service wouldn't be appropriate (however, I shall ask his view on that question).

I had assumed your question was rhetorical and you were coming at it from another angle, apologies.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If they have fully transitioned then they are a man. I have a family member who has done exactly this. He has a beard and a boaby, he's a bloke and if he ever (god forbid) needed a service for support then an all female service wouldn't be appropriate (however, I shall ask his view on that question).

I had assumed your question was rhetorical and you were coming at it from another angle, apologies.

Ta.

I suppose my question was related to the notion expressed by some GC's that "trans women are not real women" ie they are men. The corollary of that is "trans men are not real men" ie they are women.

For me, your relative is very definitely a man, but you can see that might not be everyone's view.

edit..... Twitter is now very much alive with that very question......

[archie]

I recognise that this is published by campaigners, but the issues raised highlight where well meaning but ill-considered legislation comes into force https://reduxx.info/men-are-men-norw...nder-comments/

[archie]

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And tomorrow will be significant https://twitter.com/DSanderson_85/st...73566875127808

SG win case.