SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Stairway 2 7]

Mhairi Black not having the colony chat, quite rightly

https://mobile.twitter.com/agcoleham...64003093037056

[Ozyhibby]

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Mhairi Black not having the colony chat, quite rightly

https://mobile.twitter.com/agcoleham...64003093037056

Did NS use the word colony?


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Did NS use the word colony?


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Did you listen to it. I didn't mention NS. It's Black saying we shouldn't say colony

[Ozyhibby]

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Did you listen to it. I didn't mention NS. It's Black saying we shouldn't say colony

You posted a link to a tweet which specifically mentions NS?
Personally I don’t use the word colony.


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[Smartie]

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Mhairi Black not having the colony chat, quite rightly

https://mobile.twitter.com/agcoleham...64003093037056

I’ve not listened to the whole podcast but even from the little bit I heard it sounded like a very carefully cherry-picked quote with zero context for ACH to make a particular point.

On the face of it I agree 100% with Black - the worst part of the colony chat is that it underplays the horrors of colonisation and doesn’t acknowledge the terrible role Scots have played over the century as that butcher’s apron has been hoisted and the assets stripped.

[He's here!]

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Is this a cut and paste from the Daily Express?

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In what way is it inaccurate? As explained here, Sturgeon has made clear that in the next general election the SNP will be campaigning on a single issue:

Scottish independence: What is a de facto referendum? - BBC News

[He's here!]

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Are you a primary school teacher?

Sorry, just saw this. No, support for learning assistant.

[Kato]

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In what way is it inaccurate? As explained here, Sturgeon has made clear that in the next general election the SNP will be campaigning on a single issue:

Scottish independence: What is a de facto referendum? - BBC News

Do you think it's possible to do two things at once? In this case prepare for an election and govern the education system? Clues include "departmemtalisation" and "delagation".

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[Mibbes Aye]

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Do you think it's possible to do two things at once? In this case prepare for an election and govern the education system? Clues include "departmemtalisation" and "delagation".

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I was going to be mean and say they maybe should be focusing on the education system given that spelling, but I will refrain

[ronaldo7]

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Sorry, just saw this. No, support for learning assistant.

Thanks for the response. I've got family in the same area, and wondered if you were finding things difficult in the job, as they are.

They leave the education to the educationalists as well, but sometimes take the hits for them.

[Kato]

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I was going to be mean and say they maybe should be focusing on the education system given that spelling, but I will refrain

Too late for me, bud.

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[He's here!]

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Thanks for the response. I've got family in the same area, and wondered if you were finding things difficult in the job, as they are.

They leave the education to the educationalists as well, but sometimes take the hits for them.

That's a big question. Put it this way, there is much about the job that I love but those elements have become increasingly diluted and I'm considering moving on. The Scottish government's championing of inclusivity sounds lovely on paper but when, for example, it comes to children with significant long-term ASN we are (in my view) trying to jam too many square pegs into round holes. GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) falls short in too many individual cases which is unfair on the child, on their classmates, on their teachers, on support staff unqualified to work effectively with them and of course on their parents who are, understandably, hoping against hope to see their child thrive in a mainstream school. I have seen and worked with too many for whom that is, to put it bluntly, never going to happen. Re teachers, yes there can be something of an out of sight out of mind approach by some (though by no means all) who are relieved to see especially challenging children attended to by somebody else. In a number of cases that means little more than an often stressful day of childcare rather than any meaningful form of education.

[degenerated]

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That's a big question. Put it this way, there is much about the job that I love but those elements have become increasingly diluted and I'm considering moving on. The Scottish government's championing of inclusivity sounds lovely on paper but when, for example, it comes to children with significant long-term ASN we are (in my view) trying to jam too many square pegs into round holes. GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) falls short in too many individual cases which is unfair on the child, on their classmates, on their teachers, on support staff unqualified to work effectively with them and of course on their parents who are, understandably, hoping against hope to see their child thrive in a mainstream school. I have seen and worked with too many for whom that is, to put it bluntly, never going to happen. Re teachers, yes there can be something of an out of sight out of mind approach by some (though by no means all) who are relieved to see especially challenging children attended to by somebody else. In a number of cases that means little more than an often stressful day of childcare rather than any meaningful form of education.

I'm no expert on any of that but having worked on 2 new build ASN schools over the last few years it would suggest their is now a recognition of need for these.

[He's here!]

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I'm no expert on any of that but having worked on 2 new build ASN schools over the last few years it would suggest their is now a recognition of need for these.

I would like to think so, but the Scottish government now stipulates that every local authority has a duty to provide education in a mainstream setting (a 'presumption of mainstreaming'). Again, all very well on paper, but in my experience the reality too often is that a child may be present in a mainstream setting but is by no means 'included' in a consistently meaningful way. I suspect many would find it an eye-opener to see just how big a demand an especially challenging child places on staffing resources (often at the expense of other children's day-to-day needs).

Additional support for learning - Schools - gov.scot (www.gov.scot)

[Just Alf]

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I would like to think so, but the Scottish government now stipulates that every local authority has a duty to provide education in a mainstream setting (a 'presumption of mainstreaming'). Again, all very well on paper, but in my experience the reality too often is that a child may be present in a mainstream setting but is by no means 'included' in a consistently meaningful way. I suspect many would find it an eye-opener to see just how big a demand an especially challenging child places on staffing resources (often at the expense of other children's day-to-day needs).

Additional support for learning - Schools - gov.scot (www.gov.scot)

That sounds like real hard work.

Reading it I do worry that as you've pointed out, other children are being negatively impacted by the few 'difficult' children being pushed through the system in something not tailored enough.to their individual needs.

Keep up the good work!

[LewysGot2]

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I would like to think so, but the Scottish government now stipulates that every local authority has a duty to provide education in a mainstream setting (a 'presumption of mainstreaming'). Again, all very well on paper, but in my experience the reality too often is that a child may be present in a mainstream setting but is by no means 'included' in a consistently meaningful way. I suspect many would find it an eye-opener to see just how big a demand an especially challenging child places on staffing resources (often at the expense of other children's day-to-day needs).

Additional support for learning - Schools - gov.scot (www.gov.scot)

Swinney ushered in that Presumption of Mainstream legislation I think? Without being cynical it looks like a way to avoid building resources for pupils with additional needs and putting the onus on mainstream schools to meet needs with finite resources. All in the name of “inclusion”.

Has there been any new ASN schools built in the area not just rebuilds of old ones? Can’t think of any? The pressure on those schools must be immense too - was Kaimes not in the press not that long ago because staff walked out over violent assaults?

[Just Alf]

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Swinney ushered in that Presumption of Mainstream legislation I think? Without being cynical it looks like a way to avoid building resources for pupils with additional needs and putting the onus on mainstream schools to meet needs with finite resources. All in the name of “inclusion”.

Has there been any new ASN schools built in the area not just rebuilds of old ones? Can’t think of any? The pressure on those schools must be immense too - was Kaimes not in the press not that long ago because staff walked out over violent assaults?

It's a good point... I can see how it is seen as a "good thing" , but only if it was backed up with more support for the schools to cater for the additional demands on the facilities/staff.

[He's here!]

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Swinney ushered in that Presumption of Mainstream legislation I think? Without being cynical it looks like a way to avoid building resources for pupils with additional needs and putting the onus on mainstream schools to meet needs with finite resources. All in the name of “inclusion”.

Has there been any new ASN schools built in the area not just rebuilds of old ones? Can’t think of any? The pressure on those schools must be immense too - was Kaimes not in the press not that long ago because staff walked out over violent assaults?

There's much I could add to that but let's just say your post mirrors many a staffroom conversation.

Between 2012 and 2019 there was a 70% increase in kids with ASN being registered in mainstream schools following Swinney's measures. That's circa 200k children. Wouldn't be surprised if that figure is touching quarter of a million now:

Edinburgh's disabled children being 'segregated' in mainstream schools due to lack of support | Edinburgh News (scotsman.com)

[stu in nottingham]

I would agree with much of what people have said. I worked and volunteered with SEN children for some time in both SEN and mainstream settings and observed quite a few children who had been included in both at various times. There were some who just did not thrive in a mainstream setting, more often those with behavioural problems. I witnessed numerous times when a mainstream classroom setting did not have the necessary provision of respources, particularly in terms of staff, in order to meet the child's needs. Equally, the unstatemented childrens' education stood to suffer at times due to the extra pressure put on staff by kids with special needs. My conclusion tended to be that some children were just not suitable for mainstream mainly because the number of staff to support them was inadequate.

By contrast, an SEN school I worked within for three years seriously deteriorated during that period. With a lack of funding for the small school it became apparent that nearly all the statemented children coming into the school had serious behavioural problems and often extremely chaotic backgrounds. This was due to the exrtra funding they brought for one-to-one support they came with which allowed the school to operate. The result was much increased incidences of violence in the school where once they had been well managed. I recall one afternoon there were four seperate fights going on simultaneously in the school with female staff getting hurt. Items such as blades were regularly being secreted around the school by some of the kids with behavioural problems and so on.

All this of course had a deleterious effect on many of the other children's education and experience. These were youngsters with visual or hearing impairments, kids with cerebral palsy, brain injury, Prader Willi Syndrome, Down Syndrome and so on. Making up the balance of the school population were children on the autistic spectrum. Many of these kids' education and care suffered due to the breakdown in behaviour around the school.

Looking back, I'm still not sure what the answer is. Maybr mainstream could work for all if those schools were funded sufficiently. I don't see that ever happening though.

[Mibbes Aye]

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It's a good point... I can see how it is seen as a "good thing" , but only if it was backed up with more support for the schools to cater for the additional demands on the facilities/staff.

There's also a wider, structural problem here. With schools being universal service and and full-time education legislated for (until the age of 19 in statute IIRC, though that doesn't translate in practice), there is a massive cliff-edge where children with additional support needs become 'adults'.

For children with complex physical disabilities and learning disabilities they move from what to an extent are commonly seen by parents as 'safe' services at school where staffing ratios (at least on paper) are far more positive, to become adults with less guaranteed support and also more chargeable services (though adult benefits offset some of that).

For children affected by mental ill-health, or with behavoiurs perceived as challenging by others, or the like, the cliff-edge can be equally dramatic and traumatic. While there have always been a lot of policy initiatives around this specific transition, anyone working in this field will know of the negative impact on the wellbeing of these children or young people.

[ronaldo7]

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At which ages do top-ranked PISA nations start teaching literacy?

This question seems to have been missed. I think it's 7 mate.

[Santa Cruz]

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That's a big question. Put it this way, there is much about the job that I love but those elements have become increasingly diluted and I'm considering moving on. The Scottish government's championing of inclusivity sounds lovely on paper but when, for example, it comes to children with significant long-term ASN we are (in my view) trying to jam too many square pegs into round holes. GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) falls short in too many individual cases which is unfair on the child, on their classmates, on their teachers, on support staff unqualified to work effectively with them and of course on their parents who are, understandably, hoping against hope to see their child thrive in a mainstream school. I have seen and worked with too many for whom that is, to put it bluntly, never going to happen. Re teachers, yes there can be something of an out of sight out of mind approach by some (though by no means all) who are relieved to see especially challenging children attended to by somebody else. In a number of cases that means little more than an often stressful day of childcare rather than any meaningful form of education.

CEC are holding a focus group meeting tonight at Liberton H.S for parents/carers. It's to gather views on the future direction the Council takes with Education, and more broadly a national discussion on this topic. There's limited spaces, if anyone's interested I'm happy to dig out the email contact needed to book tickets.

Edit adding it now in case I forget to check back. It's from 7-9pm. [email protected]

[He's here!]

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There's also a wider, structural problem here. With schools being universal service and and full-time education legislated for (until the age of 19 in statute IIRC, though that doesn't translate in practice), there is a massive cliff-edge where children with additional support needs become 'adults'.

For children with complex physical disabilities and learning disabilities they move from what to an extent are commonly seen by parents as 'safe' services at school where staffing ratios (at least on paper) are far more positive, to become adults with less guaranteed support and also more chargeable services (though adult benefits offset some of that).

For children affected by mental ill-health, or with behavoiurs perceived as challenging by others, or the like, the cliff-edge can be equally dramatic and traumatic. While there have always been a lot of policy initiatives around this specific transition, anyone working in this field will know of the negative impact on the wellbeing of these children or young people.

I can only speak for primary school level, but there are certain behaviours which are challenging full-stop. No reasonable person would perceive them any other way. The most obvious being violent behaviour as the bite marks (which on one occasion necessitated a tetanus jab), cuts and bruises I've sustained testify. These injuries have been almost exclusively sustained while working with children with significant ASN and are a big part of the reason I find the Scottish government's 'presumption of mainstream' far from satisfactory.

I agree with your cliff edge analogy though. Even the transition from primary school to high school is a bridge many with significant ASN simply can't cross. The way I tend to manage my own anxieties when working with especially challenging kids is to remember how hard (and exhausting) it must be to see the world the way they do and how terribly hard it must be to be a parent trying to help their child navigate that world and agonising over how that child/adult will cope when they are no longer around.

[Mibbes Aye]

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I can only speak for primary school level, but there are certain behaviours which are challenging full-stop. No reasonable person would perceive them any other way. The most obvious being violent behaviour as the bite marks (which on one occasion necessitated a tetanus jab), cuts and bruises I've sustained testify. These injuries have been almost exclusively sustained while working with children with significant ASN and are a big part of the reason I find the Scottish government's 'presumption of mainstream' far from satisfactory.

I agree with your cliff edge analogy though. Even the transition from primary school to high school is a bridge many with significant ASN simply can't cross. The way I tend to manage my own anxieties when working with especially challenging kids is to remember how hard (and exhausting) it must be to see the world the way they do and how terribly hard it must be to be a parent trying to help their child navigate that world and agonising over how that child/adult will cope when they are no longer around.

I wouldn't want to diminish the impact of behaviours that are challenging, and often physically harmful, let alone emotionally harmful, for those on the receiving end.

I think it was me being clumsy with the language. I was trying to describe children who in the past would be labelled as having 'challenging behaviour' but I wasn't going to use that expression as it is grim and just highlights the symptoms not the cause.

I'm guessing in your role you will be all-too-familiar with the power of language and the effect it can have on people's lives when used carelessly. That's why work in this field can be so difficult, though it has the capacity to be incredibly rewarding too.

[He's here!]

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I wouldn't want to diminish the impact of behaviours that are challenging, and often physically harmful, let alone emotionally harmful, for those on the receiving end.

I think it was me being clumsy with the language. I was trying to describe children who in the past would be labelled as having 'challenging behaviour' but I wasn't going to use that expression as it is grim and just highlights the symptoms not the cause.

I'm guessing in your role you will be all-too-familiar with the power of language and the effect it can have on people's lives when used carelessly. That's why work in this field can be so difficult, though it has the capacity to be incredibly rewarding too.

Yes at least, as you say, we've come a long way when it comes to understanding the symptoms. When I was a kid 'sp*stic' was pretty much the generic term for those who were even a bit different. I can only imagine what horrors kids in times gone by went through at school when ASN were unrecognised.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-west-63792386

Shipyard takeover 'wasted' £200m of public money.

[grunt]

Woohoo! The ferry story is back!

[ronaldo7]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-west-63792386

Shipyard takeover 'wasted' £200m of public money.

Former Ferguson boss Jim McColl has claimed.

The government said Mr McColl's proposal breached EU state aid rules.

Ends.

[degenerated]

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Former Ferguson boss Jim McColl has claimed.

The government said Mr McColl's proposal breached EU state aid rules.

Ends.

McColl claims a lot of things, like not having signed a contract.

[Rumble de Thump]

Why is the BBC just giving a disgruntled person a platform to attack people who have displeased him? Is that supposed to be news?