The Trans Rights Debate

[147lothian]

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A man with a fanny, but getting rid of the breests. Each to their own I suppose.

pronouns are nuts / nuttiest / nuttier

[CapitalGreen]

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I don’t know if this is appropriate here, but here goes. On ‘Pointless’ there are twins, one male, one female. By my assessment, the girl is lesbian and the guy is homosexual. Would this be an expected sexual orientation? Sorry, if I haven’t phrased my question well.

I’m interested to hear more about this assessment.

[allmodcons]

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I don’t know if this is appropriate here, but here goes. On ‘Pointless’ there are twins, one male, one female. By my assessment, the girl is lesbian and the guy is homosexual. Would this be an expected sexual orientation? Sorry, if I haven’t phrased my question well.

Possibly one of the weirdest posts I have ever seen on these boards

[James310]

https://archive.ph/IzEGs

The polls in that article are interesting.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Possibly one of the weirdest posts I have ever seen on these boards

Yep.

I saw the people referred to and the post is just lazy stereotypes.

I saw 2 nice, normal people.

[He's here!]

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https://archive.ph/IzEGs

The polls in that article are interesting.

Thanks for posting that. Very good piece from Rowling which you would hope will (along with those polls) give Sturgeon pause for thought.

[superfurryhibby]

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Thanks for posting that. Very good piece from Rowling which you would hope will (along with those polls) give Sturgeon pause for thought.

It is a well reasoned argument from Rowling.

It’s scary that a minority group of misguided extremists are having such a big influence on government.

It’s also very scary that women expressing views, like Rowling, have been targeted by haters and stigmatised for daring to oppose the will of a lunatic fringe of activists.

[Keith_M]

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I think 99% of people would agree with this.

Actually, I don't.

I don't see how anyone can say that it's been 'accepted for millennia' that gender is fluid and that there are an infinite number of genders.

Stating something like that would most likely have had your local priest leading a procession with pitchforks, calling you the spawn of the devil and demanding you be burnt at the stake.


ShirleyYouCantBeSerious.jpg

[Pretty Boy]

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Actually, I don't.

I don't see how anyone can say that it's been 'accepted for millennia' that gender is fluid and that there are an infinite number of genders.

Stating something like that would most likely have had your local priest leading a procession with pitchforks, calling you the spawn of the devil and demanding you be burnt at the stake.


ShirleyYouCantBeSerious.jpg

It's perhaps not been the case in the western world or the world of the Abrahamic religions but elsewhere in the worl it has long been the case.

The Hirjas in India, ancient Egyptians, the Mahu in Hawaii and multiple other examples across South America, Asia and Africa.

Gender fluidity isn't something that was invented in the 21st century.

[Keith_M]

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It's perhaps not been the case in the western world or the world of the Abrahamic religions but elsewhere in the worl it has long been the case.

The Hirjas in India, ancient Egyptians, the Mahu in Hawaii and multiple other examples across South America, Asia and Africa.

Gender fluidity isn't something that was invented in the 21st century.

So are you saying that the western religions have been wrong all along and are finally catching up with their much more understanding counterparts elsewhere?

[Pretty Boy]

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So are you saying that the western religions have been wrong all along and are finally catching up with their much more understanding counterparts elsewhere?

I don't think those who control large denominations of Judaism, Islam or Christianity are catching up at all. They are all still needlessly obsessed with that people are getting up to in their bedrooms and the appendages associated with that. Clericalism still abounds though so I'm not holding my breath that we will see change any time soon. On that front I've never argued anything other than the Church (and in turn other organisations with similar viewpoints) is massively out of step.

The point is that we tend to view the world from a Eurocentric viewpoint and view all the chat around gender fluidity and the like as something knew when really it's nothing of the sort. On the flip side the argument that one can wholly and completely change their sex is a fresh argument and really what the current debate is dealing with.

[neil7908]

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So are you saying that the western religions have been wrong all along and are finally catching up with their much more understanding counterparts elsewhere?

I'm not sure we should be looking at any religion for guidance on matters of gender, biology or sex.

But gender fluidity has been around in Western cultures for millennia. Ancient Rome, center of the western world for centuries had a much more open view to gender and sexuality than Christianity or Islam have allowed.

[He's here!]

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It is a well reasoned argument from Rowling.

It’s scary that a minority group of misguided extremists are having such a big influence on government.

It’s also very scary that women expressing views, like Rowling, have been targeted by haters and stigmatised for daring to oppose the will of a lunatic fringe of activists.

The article really underlines just how absurdly meagre the requirements will be to enable a person to amend their gender...especially, as she points out, when you consider nobody has actually been able to define what living in an acquired gender actually means.

Hopefully the high profile front page coverage the Sunday Times is giving this will prompt some serious and overdue scrutiny of SG policy here.

[147lothian]

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https://archive.ph/IzEGs

The polls in that article are interesting.

Thanks for posting this, Rowling articulates well the concerns that many women have about the GRA which would be seen as a way for some predatory men to gain access to vulnerable woman, in spaces such as public bathrooms, changing rooms, domestic violence refuges and prison cells etc. It seems like women's safety concerns are forgotten by trying to make it easier for trans people to self ID.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm still trying to find evidence, or figures that support the fear of women in changing rooms being assaulted.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I'm still trying to find evidence, or figures that support the fear of women in changing rooms being assaulted.

Why does it have to be the fear of being assaulted. What if they just don't want someone with a ***** naked next to them in the gym changing room. Most women asked in the last couple of polls put up say they don't want pre op men in changing rooms. Should we listen to them, or tell them

[Moulin Yarns]

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Why does it have to be the fear of being assaulted. What if they just don't want someone with a ***** naked next to them in the gym changing room. Most women asked in the last couple of polls put up say they don't want pre op men in changing rooms. Should we listen to them, or tell them

Evidence? How often has this happened?

[He's here!]

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I'm still trying to find evidence, or figures that support the fear of women in changing rooms being assaulted.

Justifiable basis for fear here, as Rowling points out:

https://archive.ph/RobDS

[Stairway 2 7]

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Evidence? How often has this happened?

Evidence of what, do you want actual figures for how many trans women use the gym ha?

It's a fact most gyms have open plan changing rooms and also most trans women chose to keep there *****.

[Stairway 2 7]

Scottish greens have suspended association with Welsh and English greens. It's a split due to Scottish greens thinking the other two are transphobic. I thought they were mainly for environmental issues. Wonder if there will be a splinter party in Scotland that just want environmental issues and are more mainstream on other issues.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FeministR...76107736051713

[CropleyWasGod]

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Scottish greens have suspended association with Welsh and English greens. It's a split due to Scottish greens thinking the other two are transphobic. I thought they were mainly for environmental issues. Wonder if there will be a splinter party in Scotland that just want environmental issues and are more mainstream on other issues.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FeministR...76107736051713

There have been transphobia problems in the GPEW for years. It's not as if this wasn't expected.

As for the Scottish party, AFAIK the vote was virtually unopposed.

[Stairway 2 7]

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There have been transphobia problems in the GPEW for years. It's not as if this wasn't expected.

As for the Scottish party, AFAIK the vote was virtually unopposed.

What do you mean by transphobic though. Is it just a difference of opinions like jk Rowling has, as many don't believe that it transphobic.

[CropleyWasGod]

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What do you mean by transphobic though. Is it just a difference of opinions like jk Rowling has, as many don't believe that it transphobic.

This is a good place to start.

https://twitter.com/LGBTIQAGreens/status/1581677207625207808?t=onmAxkmp08JFwev3WyNrAg&s=19

[He's here!]

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Scottish greens have suspended association with Welsh and English greens. It's a split due to Scottish greens thinking the other two are transphobic. I thought they were mainly for environmental issues. Wonder if there will be a splinter party in Scotland that just want environmental issues and are more mainstream on other issues.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FeministR...76107736051713

Scottish Greens are simply toxic. A real error of judgement by Sturgeon to hand them a position of influence for the sake of her indy majority.

[superfurryhibby]

[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7131863]What do you mean by transphobic though. Is it just a difference of opinions like jk Rowling has, as many don't believe that it transphobic.[/QUOTE

I suspect that anyone who doesn't share the views of the leadership are labelled as transphobic.

[beensaidbefore]

Good way to get rid of a large number of Green voters in one fell swoop. Turkeys and Christmas spring to mind

[Since90+2]

[QUOTE=superfurryhibby;7131970]

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What do you mean by transphobic though. Is it just a difference of opinions like jk Rowling has, as many don't believe that it transphobic.[/QUOTE

I suspect that anyone who doesn't share the views of the leadership are labelled as transphobic.

That does seem to be the case with this quite often.

[beensaidbefore]

[QUOTE=Since90+2;7132137]

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That does seem to be the case with this quite often.

I find it quite ironic that folk looking for society to accept their alternative view have real difficulty accepting alternative views.

[Keith_M]

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This is a good place to start.

https://twitter.com/LGBTIQAGreens/st...ev3WyNrAg&s=19

That just seems to be a number of people saying a problem is present but no details seem to be supplied.

[Since90+2]

[QUOTE=beensaidbefore;7132152]

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I find it quite ironic that folk looking for society to accept their alternative view have real difficulty accepting alternative views.

Indeed.