SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Stairway 2 7]

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Depends on what shade of Labour it is.

If they're bedecked in Union jacks, refusing to support workers and all about sending the foreigners back in order to get their Red Wall voters back then I'd be surprised if they'd tempt anyone in Scotland back.

If they in any way resemble what many of us consider to be a Labour party then it might be a different story.

The fact is hundreds of thousands of Scots are loyal labour voters as every election shows. I think they are probably the most important demographic if yes is to win. Almost all snp and tory voters will vote either side.

There will be a number of they labour voters who would give labour a chance even if it is starmers brand of awful

[Ozyhibby]

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Nah labour in power undoubtedly is worse for Independence there is still a huge number of labour voters in Scotland. They might give a labour leader another chance, but could say f this if tories win again. Tory voters are probably a lost cause regardless of the winner

Really? The Labour Party in power and invading other countries is what got the SNP into power in the first place. What about Scotland’s recent voting pattern screams we are just waiting for Labour?


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[James310]

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My post was in jest but that maybe wasn’t clear.

I still think sturgeon needs a new strategy. Currently her strategy appeals to those who are already persuaded. To really turn the dial she needs to appeal to those who are either undecided or soft no voters. She could start by being more competent in the powers she has rather than being not as bad as the tories which is a low bar.

The next move by the tories will be interesting to see what direction we go in. Ideally they make another bad choice and get booted out next time and we then have a chance to change the way Britain is run.

I suspect though that will not be the case and the independence debate will drag on for a long time to come.

That's what I said as well, she does nothing to convince No voters. Unlike Alex Salmond who I keep hearing got it from 28% to 45%. The No side are far more entrenched in their views as well and unlikely to change while Yes voters are a bit more fickle.

I am also not convinced it's actually 50/50 as well, reckon it's about the same as 2014 if you did average of all polls. Does such a thing exist?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Really? The Labour Party in power and invading other countries is what got the SNP into power in the first place. What about Scotland’s recent voting pattern screams we are just waiting for Labour?


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It's not about the majority they are already yes or no and are pretty irrelevant. Like presidents focus on the swing states, snp should focus on the hundreds of thousands that will vote Labour.

[James310]

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Really? The Labour Party in power and invading other countries is what got the SNP into power in the first place. What about Scotland’s recent voting pattern screams we are just waiting for Labour?


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There could be a tipping point where some SNP voters get sick of being told vote for us and we will deliver Independence, and then nothing happening. Maybe not many but a few % points could make a difference.

[Skol]

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Really? The Labour Party in power and invading other countries is what got the SNP into power in the first place. What about Scotland’s recent voting pattern screams we are just waiting for Labour?


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I thought we were told the snp are just the best(only) vehicle to get independence and once that’s achieved they will disappear and be replaced by the old parties.

I have read that type of thing regularly but agree it’s nonsense. Too many people have gone all in snp and anti labour who are just red tories

[Smartie]

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That's what I said as well, she does nothing to convince No voters. Unlike Alex Salmond who I keep hearing got it from 28% to 45%. The No side are far more entrenched in their views as well and unlikely to change while Yes voters are a bit more fickle.

I am also not convinced it's actually 50/50 as well, reckon it's about the same as 2014 if you did average of all polls. Does such a thing exist?

I'm not convinced there are that many soft voters out there to be won over. Folk who demand that a case be put forward one way or the other are only really wanting to pick holes in it from their own position of having made up their mind rather than to ponder the merits of it and actually consider moving position.

Demographics will be a factor, and they are not on the side of the union, as folk reach voting age and others die.

That takes time though and there is a feeling that the independence thing of the last decade or so has been a bit of a movement that might have a shelf life. Folk might get fatigued, disinterested, distracted or young folk might just opt to give up and move away rather than change anything.

That's why I think NS is in a bit of a spot - to push on with a degree of urgency and risk killing the whole thing off or play the long game and risk folk losing interest.

[xyz23jc]

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Depends on what shade of Labour it is.

If they're bedecked in Union jacks, refusing to support workers and all about sending the foreigners back in order to get their Red Wall voters back then I'd be surprised if they'd tempt anyone in Scotland back.

If they in any way resemble what many of us consider to be a Labour party then it might be a different story.

The SCOTTISH Labour Party WILL ALWAYS, ALWAYS, as is historically been proven, TIME & TIME again,
put the needs of the UK LABOUR PARTY above all else no matter what they may say, I give you.... IAN MURRAY..cOUGH..CouGH.....cHoKE... BOAK.

ONE NATION TORYISM by any other name!! TORY LIGHT, TORY RED, WOKE ESCOAIA, POR DIOS DESPIERTA!

[Stairway 2 7]

Screenshot_20220707-212733_Chrome.jpg

It's no coincidence the biggest jumps in the last 30 years, went against independence when Labour got in and for when the tories.

It's wishful thinking to think it won't make any difference

[degenerated]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-62054475

Sturgeon lying through her teeth here. She will be gutted Johnson has gone ;-)

Not that much I imagine because one thing we can be sure of is that the next leader of the conservative party will be a conservative.

[Paul1642]

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I'm not convinced there are that many soft voters out there to be won over. Folk who demand that a case be put forward one way or the other are only really wanting to pick holes in it from their own position of having made up their mind rather than to ponder the merits of it and actually consider moving position.

Demographics will be a factor, and they are not on the side of the union, as folk reach voting age and others die.

That takes time though and there is a feeling that the independence thing of the last decade or so has been a bit of a movement that might have a shelf life. Folk might get fatigued, disinterested, distracted or young folk might just opt to give up and move away rather than change anything.

That's why I think NS is in a bit of a spot - to push on with a degree of urgency and risk killing the whole thing off or play the long game and risk folk losing interest.

I just posted a lengthier reply to this point on the independence thread. I think that there are plenty of people entrenched in their decision no matter what get said or done but it’s the sizeable number who would be willing to vote yes if they got a proper plan, and liked what they saw, that will sway it. Fail to convince them and the status quo will seem like the safer bet. If I get answers to all the big questions I’ll make an informed decision to the best of my ability. Fail to outline a plan and I won’t go in on blind faith.

[xyz23jc]

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The fact is hundreds of thousands of Scots are loyal labour voters as every election shows. I think they are probably the most important demographic if yes is to win. Almost all snp and tory voters will vote either side.

There will be a number of they labour voters who would give labour a chance even if it is starmers brand of awful

STARMER IS TORY LIGHT ENOUGH FOR 'EM TO STOMACH, they are desperate for the HMS GOODSHIPALLISBARYDADSARMYGOODLIFEUK!

[Ozyhibby]

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Screenshot_20220707-212733_Chrome.jpg

It's no coincidence the biggest jumps in the last 30 years, went against independence when Labour got in and for when the tories.

It's wishful thinking to think it won't make any difference

I personally think that 2014 changed things in a way that makes those long term graphs of limited value.


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[xyz23jc]

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I personally think that 2014 changed things in a way that makes those long term graphs of limited value.


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I personally think those 2014 demographics are going southward, in a negative sense,... Hope I am seriously NEGATITVELY out of touch, won't be the first time!

[James310]

Demographics may play a role, but perhaps in a way nobody expects. This was from last year.

"The latest Panelbase survey for The Sunday Times puts backing for Scottish independence among younger voters in this group at 62 per cent — well above the 48 per cent for Scots voters as a whole. Remarkably this halves to 31 per cent when they are asked how they would vote if they were sure their household would be £1,000 a year worse off under independence."

[Ozyhibby]

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Demographics may play a role, but perhaps in a way nobody expects. This was from last year.

"The latest Panelbase survey for The Sunday Times puts backing for Scottish independence among younger voters in this group at 62 per cent — well above the 48 per cent for Scots voters as a whole. Remarkably this halves to 31 per cent when they are asked how they would vote if they were sure their household would be £1,000 a year worse off under independence."

I bet it halves again if you say that to will kill them if they vote yes.


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[WeeRussell]

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Demographics may play a role, but perhaps in a way nobody expects. This was from last year.

"The latest Panelbase survey for The Sunday Times puts backing for Scottish independence among younger voters in this group at 62 per cent — well above the 48 per cent for Scots voters as a whole. Remarkably this halves to 31 per cent when they are asked how they would vote if they were sure their household would be £1,000 a year worse off under independence."

What’s remarkable about it? Give anyone an option of being sure that a negative thing will happen and chances are they’ll not be for it. I wonder why that scenario was put in front of them and then quoted.

I.e most of them don’t expect to be £1,000 worse off under independence.

You’re not seriously suggesting that younger voters are going to be a bad thing for the Indy cause?

[James310]

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I bet it halves again if you say that to will kill them if they vote yes.


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I don't think it's particular wild to suggest in the short term we would be worse off after Indy when you think of all that it entails. There was a report from LSE saying Brexit has made us all worse off to the tune of about £500, shared on here and no questions asked, the same LSE are saying Independence would be worse by 2 or 3 times.

https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-ne...er-than-Brexit


Let me guess though the Brexit report is above reproach and this report is flawed or wrong.

[ronaldo7]

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Demographics may play a role, but perhaps in a way nobody expects. This was from last year.

"The latest Panelbase survey for The Sunday Times puts backing for Scottish independence among younger voters in this group at 62 per cent — well above the 48 per cent for Scots voters as a whole. Remarkably this halves to 31 per cent when they are asked how they would vote if they were sure their household would be £1,000 a year worse off under independence."

Did it have an effect if their household was £1000 better off?

Just for balance likes. 😁

[The Modfather]

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I don't think it's particular wild to suggest in the short term we would be worse off after Indy when you think of all that it entails. There was a report from LSE saying Brexit has made us all worse off to the tune of about £500, shared on here and no questions asked, the same LSE are saying Independence would be worse by 2 or 3 times.

https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-ne...er-than-Brexit


Let me guess though the Brexit report is above reproach and this report is flawed or wrong.

What if the debate is about a short term hit while the independence vision is achieved (like re-joining the EU) v a short term hit post Brexit while, well who knows we never hear anything put forward in terms of a vision for the short, mid or long term of the union. Maybe this is it, this is the vision for the future that we see now.

[James310]

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What’s remarkable about it? Give anyone an option of being sure that a negative thing will happen and chances are they’ll not be for it. I wonder why that scenario was put in front of them and then quoted.

I.e most of them don’t expect to be £1,000 worse off under independence.

You’re not seriously suggesting that younger voters are going to be a bad thing for the Indy cause?

It was the report in the paper that said it was remarkable not me. We were talking about people being entrenched and not many being swayed, I was pointing out that the reliance on younger people may not be the sure thing it's made out to be, that's all.

[James310]

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Did it have an effect if their household was £1000 better off?

Just for balance likes. 😁

I am sure it would go up, but there is no evidence to suggest that would happen. I don't think there is a single credible piece of analysis anywhere that's suggests after Independence we would be better off. But feel free to present some?

[ronaldo7]

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I am sure it would go up, but there is no evidence to suggest that would happen. I don't think there is a single credible piece of analysis anywhere that's suggests after Independence we would be better off. But feel free to present some?

On the phone just now. I'll post a couple of links for you in the morning.

[James310]

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On the phone just now. I'll post a couple of links for you in the morning.

Please don't let it be Believe in Scotland or Business for Scotland or whatever they are called!

[Moulin Yarns]

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On the phone just now. I'll post a couple of links for you in the morning.

You say you're on the phone but you're really away for the last pack of lurpak 😉

[James310]

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You say you're on the phone but you're really away for the last pack of lurpak 😉

You are just odd. Can't you put me on ignore, your silly little jokes are tiresome. Can't you just stick to the topics on the thread.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Demographics may play a role, but perhaps in a way nobody expects. This was from last year.

"The latest Panelbase survey for The Sunday Times puts backing for Scottish independence among younger voters in this group at 62 per cent — well above the 48 per cent for Scots voters as a whole. Remarkably this halves to 31 per cent when they are asked how they would vote if they were sure their household would be £1,000 a year worse off under independence."

Demographics do play a part, the over 55s are the only age demographic that actually favour the union, the UK as we know it is on borrowed time, may not be any time soon but it's coming

[ronaldo7]

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Please don't let it be Believe in Scotland or Business for Scotland or whatever they are called!

Why not?

All the ones you're posting are forecasts.

[xyz23jc]

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Please don't let it be Believe in Scotland or Business for Scotland or whatever they are called!

Far better to listen fron C**** based in GODS COUNTRY.plc....Wherever that may be... South o' thi Border... I'd Imagine!

[xyz23jc]

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You say you're on the phone but you're really away for the last pack of lurpak 😉

LOL!