SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Since90+2]

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Agree with the above but I really wish we didn’t use custodial sentences for non-violent offences like this. I would have rather doubled her sentence but made her serve it at home rather this.


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Not much of a deterrent. If she would be made to stay at home then you'd have to assume the state would be covering her bills and food expenses, otherwise she'd become homeless and would no longer be under house arrest.

[Ozyhibby]

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Not much of a deterrent. If she would be made to stay at home then you'd have to assume the state would be covering her bills and food expenses, otherwise she'd become homeless and would no longer be under house arrest.

I would allow her to work and also to attend an education programme. Otherwise she has to be at home.


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[lucky]

We jail far to many people in this country. Jail should be a last resort and for those who are a threat to society. Jailing McGarry has served no purpose, the taxpayer picks up the bill and I doubt she will be rehilabnated any more in jail that outside. She has suffered a spectacular fall from grace and now we’ve put her in jail for the sake of it. She clearly can help in the community and her skill set would have served Scotland better by sentencing her to a community pay back order.

[Jack]

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Agree with the above but I really wish we didn’t use custodial sentences for non-violent offences like this. I would have rather doubled her sentence but made her serve it at home rather this.


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I agree with you, she could have been tagged and got on with her life and saved the prison service, and therefore us, a small fortune.

As an aside by my fag packet calculation the torys will be due, between them, something like one and a half million years in the pokey for the money they've dubiously removed from the public purse over the last couple of years!

[Ozyhibby]

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I agree with you, she could have been tagged and got on with her life and saved the prison service, and therefore us, a small fortune.

As an aside by my fag packet calculation the torys will be due, between them, something like one and a half million years in the pokey for the money they've dubiously removed from the public purse over the last couple of years!

And working in a job where she pays tax. It would still be a massive restriction of liberty, not being able to leave home in the evenings or weekends but it’s a lot better than locking her up 23 hours a day. It’s not just the cost of the prison service but also the cost for the nhs dealing with all the mental health issues that stem from that.


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[Since90+2]

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And working in a job where she pays tax. It would still be a massive restriction of liberty, not being able to leave home in the evenings or weekends but it’s a lot better than locking her up 23 hours a day. It’s not just the cost of the prison service but also the cost for the nhs dealing with all the mental health issues that stem from that.


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That's hardly a deterrent. Being able to work freely, socialise during the day and have people visit in the evenings and weekends.

People stealing significant amounts of money from the public purse, and never admitting guilt, need to be punished harsher than that.

[He's here!]

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We jail far to many people in this country. Jail should be a last resort and for those who are a threat to society. Jailing McGarry has served no purpose, the taxpayer picks up the bill and I doubt she will be rehilabnated any more in jail that outside. She has suffered a spectacular fall from grace and now we’ve put her in jail for the sake of it. She clearly can help in the community and her skill set would have served Scotland better by sentencing her to a community pay back order.

What skilll set? Based on what was presented during the trial she was hopelessly ill-equipped to be an MP, let alone made responsible for large sums of other people's money. It seems likely her mother and aunt's relatively high-profile roles within the SNP gave her something of a leg-up, but judging by what sounds like her uneven, often chaotic personal life those closest to her might be reflecting on whether it was wise to encourage her in that direction. In that respect I have some sympathy for her, seemingly unable to face up to the fact she just wasn't coping.

I don't really get the argument that her sentence could have been more lenient though. A custodial sentence was surely always on the cards and there needs to be a strong deterrent when it comes to these sort of crimes. I imagine anyone tempted to indulge in embezzlement would be more likely to do so if they knew that the worst they'd face was a tag. Not saying that isn't a significant and humiliating restriction on your liberty, but compared to the horror going to prison it's hugely less alarming prospect.

[Ozyhibby]

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What skilll set? Based on what was presented during the trial she was hopelessly ill-equipped to be an MP, let alone made responsible for large sums of other people's money. It seems likely her mother and aunt's relatively high-profile roles within the SNP gave her something of a leg-up, but judging by what sounds like her uneven, often chaotic personal life those closest to her might be reflecting on whether it was wise to encourage her in that direction. In that respect I have some sympathy for her, seemingly unable to face up to the fact she just wasn't coping.

I don't really get the argument that her sentence could have been more lenient though. A custodial sentence was surely always on the cards and there needs to be a strong deterrent when it comes to these sort of crimes. I imagine anyone tempted to indulge in embezzlement would be more likely to do so if they knew that the worst they'd face was a tag. Not saying that isn't a significant and humiliating restriction on your liberty, but compared to the horror going to prison it's hugely less alarming prospect.

The fact that prison is a horror isn’t a good reason to send someone there.
I’m all for it in cases where violence is involved or for someone who is a persistent offender.
I never really get the whole deterrence argument. Most people who commit crimes don’t think they will ever be caught. State with the death penalty in America have higher homicide rates.
Sending people to jail instead of using home detention only creates losers. It’s bad for society as a whole.


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[Skol]

If she had held her hand up and acknowledged her wrongdoing I don’t think she would have had a custodial sentence. However I think she denied this throughout and still does. I get what Otrvsay about the custodial,sentence, but in the face of the evidence she surely had to come clean.

[Ozyhibby]

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If she had held her hand up and acknowledged her wrongdoing I don’t think she would have had a custodial sentence. However I think she denied this throughout and still does. I get what Otrvsay about the custodial,sentence, but in the face of the evidence she surely had to come clean.

I agree she deserves the max. For me though, I would prefer if she did 4 year home detention than 2 years in jail.


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[LeithMike]

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I agree she deserves the max. For me though, I would prefer if she did 4 year home detention than 2 years in jail.


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How about a compromise? 3 years' detention in a new home in Rwanda?! I'm sure Pritti Patel will be working on something like this at the moment.

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[ronaldo7]

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If she had held her hand up and acknowledged her wrongdoing I don’t think she would have had a custodial sentence. However I think she denied this throughout and still does. I get what Otrvsay about the custodial,sentence, but in the face of the evidence she surely had to come clean.

I agree with this.

What a waste though.

[He's here!]

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The fact that prison is a horror isn’t a good reason to send someone there.
I’m all for it in cases where violence is involved or for someone who is a persistent offender.
I never really get the whole deterrence argument. Most people who commit crimes don’t think they will ever be caught. State with the death penalty in America have higher homicide rates.
Sending people to jail instead of using home detention only creates losers. It’s bad for society as a whole.


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Is that really the case? There are obviously crimes where the level of pre-planning and ingenuity involved is with a view to never being caught, but I'd suggest an enormous number of crimes are not pre-meditated - particularly crimes which are a result of impromptu violence - and the chances of getting away with it are therefore greatly reduced.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Agree with the above but I really wish we didn’t use custodial sentences for non-violent offences like this. I would have rather doubled her sentence but made her serve it at home rather this.


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Going not guilty might have tipped the balance there. If you take it trial then lose, the judge will come down hard.

[Ozyhibby]

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Is that really the case? There are obviously crimes where the level of pre-planning and ingenuity involved is with a view to never being caught, but I'd suggest an enormous number of crimes are not pre-meditated - particularly crimes which are a result of impromptu violence - and the chances of getting away with it are therefore greatly reduced.

Yes but when you have people acting irrationally in the heat of the moment then the deterrent isn’t a big factor. Which is why people still kill people in America when they have the deaths sentence.


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[Aldo]

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If she had held her hand up and acknowledged her wrongdoing I don’t think she would have had a custodial sentence. However I think she denied this throughout and still does. I get what Otrvsay about the custodial,sentence, but in the face of the evidence she surely had to come clean.

Zero remorse and let’s not kid ourselves on here, she knew exactly what she was doing and by all accounts a very intelligent person.

Blatant lying for me and deserves everything she gets!


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[Skol]

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Zero remorse and let’s not kid ourselves on here, she knew exactly what she was doing and by all accounts a very intelligent person.

Blatant lying for me and deserves everything she gets!


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Reading back and I forgot she originally pled guilty and then tried to withdraw her plea and then refused to accept her guily

I think she was just a bit disorganised in general and also financially. It probably started not as embezzlement but to solve a cash flow issue and then grew from there. Plenty people saw the signs as well but left it too long.

Quiet sad r3ally as she could still have bee. An MP on a decent salary and no financial issues

[Aldo]

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Reading back and I forgot she originally pled guilty and then tried to withdraw her plea and then refused to accept her guily

I think she was just a bit disorganised in general and also financially. It probably started not as embezzlement but to solve a cash flow issue and then grew from there. Plenty people saw the signs as well but left it too long.

Quiet sad r3ally as she could still have bee. An MP on a decent salary and no financial issues

Yip. She used her position to gain financial gain using public monies to fund holidays, nights out and pay her bills.

She is now subjected to proceeds of crime so but of a double whammy.

Zero sympathy from me!


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[He's here!]

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Reading back and I forgot she originally pled guilty and then tried to withdraw her plea and then refused to accept her guily

I think she was just a bit disorganised in general and also financially. It probably started not as embezzlement but to solve a cash flow issue and then grew from there. Plenty people saw the signs as well but left it too long.

Quiet sad r3ally as she could still have bee. An MP on a decent salary and no financial issues

Think she was more than just a bit disorganised. The Herald did a feature about her last week and she appears to have had a very loose relationship with the truth long before she became an MP. Numerous jobs, work experiences and qualifications on her CV were either only partially true or simply made up. The vetting process within the SNP for selecting its candidates does not seem to have been very rigorous.

[degenerated]

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Think she was more than just a bit disorganised. The Herald did a feature about her last week and she appears to have had a very loose relationship with the truth long before she became an MP. Numerous jobs, work experiences and qualifications on her CV were either only partially true or simply made up. The vetting process within the SNP for selecting its candidates does not seem to have been very rigorous.

Her husband is a Tory, probably learned it all from him

[Berwickhibby]

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Her husband is a Tory, probably learned it all from him

Which made her a tartan Tory

[degenerated]

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Which made her a tartan Tory

Can't really argue with that

[Skol]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-62054475

Sturgeon lying through her teeth here. She will be gutted Johnson has gone ;-)

[Keith_M]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-62054475

Sturgeon lying through her teeth here. She will be gutted Johnson has gone ;-)

Boris Johnson being the PM did help the argument for independence.



Rees Mogg being the next PM would probably convince even more people to vote Yes

[WeeRussell]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-62054475

Sturgeon lying through her teeth here. She will be gutted Johnson has gone ;-)

The ‘quoted’ part indicates that she says there will be overwhelming and widespread relief that he’s gone. There is nothing untrue about that.

[Smartie]

Boris being PM certainly did her no favours in terms of credibility as FM.

Whilst a solid working relationship with the PM would arguably lessen any case for independence, if she's wanting to look competent in the day job and gain trust when it comes to having people believe in her being able to lead into independence (and possibly beyond) then it might help her not to have to have to co-operate publicly with an absolute buffoon.

[Ozyhibby]

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Boris being PM certainly did her no favours in terms of credibility as FM.

Whilst a solid working relationship with the PM would arguably lessen any case for independence, if she's wanting to look competent in the day job and gain trust when it comes to having people believe in her being able to lead into independence (and possibly beyond) then it might help her not to have to have to co-operate publicly with an absolute buffoon.

Demography moves the numbers more than who the PM is. 8 years has seen it move to 50/50. Another couple should do the trick.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Demography moves the numbers more than who the PM is. 8 years has seen it move to 50/50. Another couple should do the trick.


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Nah labour in power undoubtedly is worse for Independence there is still a huge number of labour voters in Scotland. They might give a labour leader another chance, but could say f this if tories win again. Tory voters are probably a lost cause regardless of the winner

[Smartie]

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Nah labour in power undoubtedly is worse for Independence there is still a huge number of labour voters in Scotland. They might give a labour leader another chance, but could say f this if tories win again. Tory voters are probably a lost cause regardless of the winner

Depends on what shade of Labour it is.

If they're bedecked in Union jacks, refusing to support workers and all about sending the foreigners back in order to get their Red Wall voters back then I'd be surprised if they'd tempt anyone in Scotland back.

If they in any way resemble what many of us consider to be a Labour party then it might be a different story.

[Skol]

My post was in jest but that maybe wasn’t clear.

I still think sturgeon needs a new strategy. Currently her strategy appeals to those who are already persuaded. To really turn the dial she needs to appeal to those who are either undecided or soft no voters. She could start by being more competent in the powers she has rather than being not as bad as the tories which is a low bar.

The next move by the tories will be interesting to see what direction we go in. Ideally they make another bad choice and get booted out next time and we then have a chance to change the way Britain is run.

I suspect though that will not be the case and the independence debate will drag on for a long time to come.