SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Berwickhibby]

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But the habit hasn't gone away. Im not sure why people are saying it dropped by 8% it was 2%.

You could say alcohol sales are very much flat if a little down since 2013. There was a really big drop from 2009 to 2013 not sure why. That certainly made a difference. Look at the graph here
Attachment 25921

The report often reported says it worked because Scotland fell faster than North East England by 8% in one year, in purchases in 35,000 homes. Its a comparison against one region in one year. It says the biggest drops were in houses who bought the most alcohol. Although the study out yesterday said the opposite. That can only be but down to its too close to register


Look at the trends and its flat, although it actually rose during covid.

England has been pretty flat for 10 years and bellow Scotland. Statistically insignificant falls and rises of a few percent.

So Scotland had a big fall in 2009 then stagnated really, although deaths have been creeping up

I totally agree with your explanation….I was not having a dig at the Scottish Government, MUP has not been a success but at least there has been an attempt to reduce Alcohol related illness.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I totally agree with your explanation….I was not having a dig at the Scottish Government, MUP has not been a success but at least there has been an attempt to reduce Alcohol related illness.

I agree it's brill they are trying. It might have worked slightly but we just need a conversation if it's worth the 270 million it's cost the public so far, probably is. I'm being po faced but I like a bevvy myself, but realise it's no good for us. Would love it if the young team were put off, but there is no regular drop like there is with smoking.

Scot gov know there is a problem though and are obviously trying

[JimBHibees]

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Yes, I think that's right. It only really affects very strong and/or (what would be) very cheap drink.

eg. 70cl 40% spirit MUP is £14
75cl 14% wine MUP is £5.25
50cl 5% beer MUP is £1.25

You'd struggle to find much you could describe as pleasurable to drink below those prices, imo.

Last year's Newcastle Uni survey found an overall drop of 8% alcohol consumption in Scotland. This new report shows it's not really making much difference to alcoholics but surely the overall drop in a country with widespread alcohol problems is a good thing?

Entirely anecdotally, I think my kids (early 20s) and their friends have a healthier attitude to alcohol than I and mine did at the same age. Whether that's real and if MUP has anything to do with it, I don't know.

Similar for me two kids 18 and 20 and both them and their friends certainly not drinking to same extent as when I was their age.

[Stairway 2 7]

Underage drinking has dropped massively in the last 20 years in the uk. In 2005 a real sharp decline started and its now around half of what it was. Not sure if there was a focus around this time but it really worked. It's flattened out the last few years but still a lot lower than it was

aab8857e4d2db4f733a02018efe9920840bcd8f9.jpg

[LewysGot2]

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Similar for me two kids 18 and 20 and both them and their friends certainly not drinking to same extent as when I was their age.

What is the driver there, do you reckon?

Is it cost? Or are you influencing their choices through “don’t do what I did”? Or school education programmes?

So many parents of our generation are quite happy to encourage drinking including under age drinking of their offspring- Scotlands unhealthy relationship with alcohol and its perceived vital role in social activities by people of all backgrounds. Sometimes parents wanting to be cool parents other times the old rite of passage stuff. I’ve even had a mate worry his kid won’t fit in if he doesn’t drink…mind blowing tbh from someone who is educated himself otherwise.

Is it other things that have generally replaced alcohol as the high of choice, too. The white marching stuff is definitely more prevalent at football in the young.

[Ozyhibby]

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What is the driver there, do you reckon?

Is it cost? Or are you influencing their choices through “don’t do what I did”? Or school education programmes?

So many parents of our generation are quite happy to encourage drinking including under age drinking of their offspring- Scotlands unhealthy relationship with alcohol and its perceived vital role in social activities by people of all backgrounds. Sometimes parents wanting to be cool parents other times the old rite of passage stuff. I’ve even had a mate worry his kid won’t fit in if he doesn’t drink…mind blowing tbh from someone who is educated himself otherwise.

Is it other things that have generally replaced alcohol as the high of choice, too. The white marching stuff is definitely more prevalent at football in the young.

I think it’s lots of things. Education is part of it but there are other factors. Until they are 18, it is a lot more difficult to get served in a pub than it was when we were younger. So habits are forming at a later stage. There are also more choices open to them for meeting up. They can go out and meet in Nando’s for a couple of hours midweek where as we would never have been able to eat out cheaply and so would have went to a pub.
IMHO the young ones today are behaving much better and making far better choices than our generation (I’m 51) were making.


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[JimBHibees]

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What is the driver there, do you reckon?

Is it cost? Or are you influencing their choices through “don’t do what I did”? Or school education programmes?

So many parents of our generation are quite happy to encourage drinking including under age drinking of their offspring- Scotlands unhealthy relationship with alcohol and its perceived vital role in social activities by people of all backgrounds. Sometimes parents wanting to be cool parents other times the old rite of passage stuff. I’ve even had a mate worry his kid won’t fit in if he doesn’t drink…mind blowing tbh from someone who is educated himself otherwise.

Is it other things that have generally replaced alcohol as the high of choice, too. The white marching stuff is definitely more prevalent at football in the young.

A whole load of factors I think peer group depends entirely their friendship group etc parental influences definitely a factor we certainly didn't directly encourage our kids to drink eg a parent we know dropped her daughter off to meet her mates in a park with a bottle of wine at 14. Pubs being much stricter though appreciate there can be ways round it. Imagine cost a factor also. Daughter now 18 was 17 when started uni so couldn't drink in the union. They do drink but seem to be more selective and sensible up until now though obviously that can fundamentally change.

[Stairway 2 7]

Must be something to do with education as 15 year old weren't getting served when I was that age in 2000. But in about 2005 the number of 15 year olds that had drunk started to plummet to now where it halved
aab8857e4d2db4f733a02018efe9920840bcd8f9.jpg

One thing is there was only a few people of colour in my secondary. But my nephew goes now and they are probably about a third. A big numbers parent are from Muslim nations in Asia and Africa. I had a bbq for my daughters pals last week and had to get some halal stuff. She says most of her Muslim pals had drunk but only a couple of times and they are 17/18.

Same with her she drinks but rarely, we've not drummed it in one way or the other as they all seem clued up. I was out clubbing 4 times a week at 18 but it was much cheaper, prices are mental now up town. Uni next year so it might go tits up

[JeMeSouviens]

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I think it’s lots of things. Education is part of it but there are other factors. Until they are 18, it is a lot more difficult to get served in a pub than it was when we were younger. So habits are forming at a later stage. There are also more choices open to them for meeting up. They can go out and meet in Nando’s for a couple of hours midweek where as we would never have been able to eat out cheaply and so would have went to a pub.
IMHO the young ones today are behaving much better and making far better choices than our generation (I’m 51) were making.


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Also, going for a coffee is a thing, which it wasn't in our day (I'm 52).

[Jones28]

I think young people now generally are a bit more caring about their health in general. Smoking rates have plummeted.

It might be something to do with Love Island or these rank shows that show the "beautiful" people flaunting themselves. It might be **** TV but it may be that case that people have been inspired to make positive changes and be more healthy.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I think young people now generally are a bit more caring about their health in general. Smoking rates have plummeted.

It might be something to do with Love Island or these rank shows that show the "beautiful" people flaunting themselves. It might be **** TV but it may be that case that people have been inspired to make positive changes and be more healthy.

Love Island and social media thing might tie in with why there is an explosion on steroid use in uk youths unfortunately

[The Tubs]

I’d say it’s due to everyone carrying around a video camera and being able to share the results with an unlimited number of people immediately. I’m sure they have all watched videos of steaming folk and have been put off.

[LewysGot2]

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A whole load of factors I think peer group depends entirely their friendship group etc parental influences definitely a factor we certainly didn't directly encourage our kids to drink eg a parent we know dropped her daughter off to meet her mates in a park with a bottle of wine at 14. Pubs being much stricter though appreciate there can be ways round it. Imagine cost a factor also. Daughter now 18 was 17 when started uni so couldn't drink in the union. They do drink but seem to be more selective and sensible up until now though obviously that can fundamentally change.

It's interesting the trends. I've two kids in their 20s. You're probably younger than me at 50 but not too much I guess. Parenting in the days we were growing up was less tolerant and there was more tough love. You'd get the back of my dad's hand in our house if we were caught underage drinking and even as adults the old dear would fret over messier behaviours. I don't think I'm remotely soft as a parent but I'm not like them in this respect. I reckon most parents would have been like mine when I was growing up and I definitely think most parents these days are far more tolerant. Some to the point of indulgent like the wine providing mum you describe.
Some parents seem to want to be their kids mates and that's where the boundary blurs.

But against a back drop of more liberal parenting apparently fewer teens are getting smashed. I wonder how that breaks down - is their a demographic bias at play? Multiculturalism?

Or are the kids making good choices just wiser and ignoring the patterns of their previous generations?

Whatever the case let's hope it's real, sustainable and improves because by Sauzee our country, our NHS and our children need it

[Ozyhibby]

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It's interesting the trends. I've two kids in their 20s. You're probably younger than me at 50 but not too much I guess. Parenting in the days we were growing up was less tolerant and there was more tough love. You'd get the back of my dad's hand in our house if we were caught underage drinking and even as adults the old dear would fret over messier behaviours. I don't think I'm remotely soft as a parent but I'm not like them in this respect. I reckon most parents would have been like mine when I was growing up and I definitely think most parents these days are far more tolerant. Some to the point of indulgent like the wine providing mum you describe.
Some parents seem to want to be their kids mates and that's where the boundary blurs.

But against a back drop of more liberal parenting apparently fewer teens are getting smashed. I wonder how that breaks down - is their a demographic bias at play? Multiculturalism?

Or are the kids making good choices just wiser and ignoring the patterns of their previous generations?

Whatever the case let's hope it's real, sustainable and improves because by Sauzee our country, our NHS and our children need it

There are so many different things that could be at play. Is it possible that parents these days are sometimes about 15 years older than their own parents? I often think if I had had kids in my 20’s I would have been nowhere near as good at it?


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[LewysGot2]

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There are so many different things that could be at play. Is it possible that parents these days are sometimes about 15 years older than their own parents? I often think if I had had kids in my 20’s I would have been nowhere near as good at it?


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Interesting angle. I don't think every sector of society is having children older than their parents did - some are doing it just as young or even younger. It's probably fair to say folk who go into further or higher education and/or who want a career will. Those trapped in a cycle of poverty and lack of ambition/opportunity not so much...and this probably only emphasises the gap.

[Berwickhibby]

Is Patrick Grady going to get sacked or the whip removed for being a creepy sex pest? Or just a two day suspension

[Jones28]

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Love Island and social media thing might tie in with why there is an explosion on steroid use in uk youths unfortunately

I don't think theres any question there.

[Stokesy's on fire]

The Broken record that is Sturgeon has played the same divisive tune for long enough. We really are in a bad way when we have clowns like Sturgeon and Boris leading the way

[McSwanky]

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The Broken record that is Sturgeon has played the same divisive tune for long enough.

Isn't that kind of the point of her leadership of the SNP? She supports division of the UK, of course she's going to be divisive!

[Moulin Yarns]

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The Broken record that is Sturgeon has played the same divisive tune for long enough. We really are in a bad way when we have clowns like Sturgeon and Boris leading the way

Which clowns would you rather have in charge? 😉

[Berwickhibby]

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The Broken record that is Sturgeon has played the same divisive tune for long enough. We really are in a bad way when we have clowns like Sturgeon and Boris leading the way

Absolutely

[grunt]

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We really are in a bad way when we have clowns like Sturgeon and Boris leading the way

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Absolutely

Who would you suggest in her place? Or instead of Johnson?

[Berwickhibby]

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Who would you suggest in her place? Or instead of Johnson?

Who I want is Dugdale and Burnham… who we get will be Bozo and Nippy

[Moulin Yarns]

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Who I want is Dugdale and Burnham… who we get will be Bozo and Nippy

Dugdale has left politics and Burnham is not in the position to become leader, so, realistically what clowns do you want to replace Johnson and sturgeon?

[Berwickhibby]

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Dugdale has left politics and Burnham is not in the position to become leader, so, realistically what clowns do you want to replace Johnson and sturgeon?

I gave my suggestions…. The pool of talent in every party is so poor that I believe we will be lumbered with the current incumbents for a while longer

[Santa Cruz]

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Isn't that kind of the point of her leadership of the SNP? She supports division of the UK, of course she's going to be divisive!

Think it's more to do with division within Scotland. Regardless of any Referendum outcome, the division caused will be irreparable. At least when we had the Thatcher Gov, we were mostly united as a country. That's not the case now and possibly the saddest part of current day politics in Scotland imo.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I gave my suggestions…. The pool of talent in every party is so poor that I believe we will be lumbered with the current incumbents for a while longer

What I'm asking is, because neither of your suggestions are actually available, realistically, based on the shallow pool of talent in the Labour Party, who would be your preferred leaders.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Think it's more to do with division within Scotland. Regardless of any Referendum outcome, the division caused will be irreparable. At least when we had the Thatcher Gov, we were mostly united as a country. That's not the case now and possibly the saddest part of current day politics in Scotland imo.

I presume you mean Scotland rather than the UK. But even then, 25% cheered her on while 75% were united in a mixture of utter hopelessness and anger. Brilliant.

Now 25% are cheering on ****face, and the other 75% are split between hopelessness and actually wanting to do something about it.

[grunt]

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Think it's more to do with division within Scotland. Regardless of any Referendum outcome, the division caused will be irreparable. At least when we had the Thatcher Gov, we were mostly united as a country. That's not the case now and possibly the saddest part of current day politics in Scotland imo.

I think we're every bit as united as a country as we were in Thatcher's day. The difference now is that those who don't want Scotland to succeed are sowing doubt and talking up division. They are making more noise, but I believe most Scots want the country to do well. And most Scots do not want Tories or Tory policies involved in our lives.

[grunt]

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Who I want is Dugdale and Burnham… who we get will be Bozo and Nippy

Instructive post. Proper names for your choices, derogatory nicknames for those you oppose. You talk about division in politics but you can't even give your opponents the courtesy of using their real names.