Scotrail

[Since90+2]

This isn't a direct dig at Train drivers but how has it came about that a train driver can earn on average £52,000 a year after training for 18 months or so, but a nurse needs to train for 3 years and then can literally work any time day or night and not be paid overtime be paid around £35,000?

I'm not saying driving a train isn't a fairly important or skilled job, but it's higher paid than some airlines pay their pilots for example and I'd imagine flying a commercial airliner takes more skill than a driving a train.

Good on the drivers if they can get the work but it just seems so out of sync when compared to other skills and professions.

[overdrive]

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This isn't a direct dig at Train drivers but how has it came about that a train driver can earn on average £52,000 a year after training for 18 months or so, but a nurse needs to train for 3 years and then can literally work any time day or night and not be paid overtime be paid around £35,000?

I'm not saying driving a train isn't a fairly important or skilled job, but it's higher paid than some airlines pay their pilots for example and I'd imagine flying a commercial airliner takes more skill than a driving a train.

Good on the drivers if they can get the work but it just seems so out of sync when compared to other skills and professions.

I think it’s widely accepted that the RMT is one of the most effective unions. I think it will be partly down to that.

[Onceinawhile]

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This isn't a direct dig at Train drivers but how has it came about that a train driver can earn on average £52,000 a year after training for 18 months or so, but a nurse needs to train for 3 years and then can literally work any time day or night and not be paid overtime be paid around £35,000?

I'm not saying driving a train isn't a fairly important or skilled job, but it's higher paid than some airlines pay their pilots for example and I'd imagine flying a commercial airliner takes more skill than a driving a train.

Good on the drivers if they can get the work but it just seems so out of sync when compared to other skills and professions.

I thought a pilot was roughly a low six figure job? I'm amazed it's below £50,000.

What I would say though, is both pilots and train drivers are in charge of transporting hundreds of people (thousands per day, if a train driver is making 5 or 6 journeys) and yet, the relative skills are probably broadly similar, except a pilot is unlikely to come across anything once he is up and running, where as a train driver could have people running on the track, animals, cars at level crossing etc... to deal wth.

I think the question is not why are train drivers so highly paid, but why are nurses so massively undervalued?

I say this being as frustrated as anyone that I can't get the train through from bathgate or the return to bathgate at the times I want when I'm working, and it seems likely to impact my plans for my gig next weekend.

[Since90+2]

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I thought a pilot was roughly a low six figure job? I'm amazed it's below £50,000.

What I would say though, is both pilots and train drivers are in charge of transporting hundreds of people (thousands per day, if a train driver is making 5 or 6 journeys) and yet, the relative skills are probably broadly similar, except a pilot is unlikely to come across anything once he is up and running, where as a train driver could have people running on the track, animals, cars at level crossing etc... to deal wth.

I think the question is not why are train drivers so highly paid, but why are nurses so massively undervalued?

I say this being as frustrated as anyone that I can't get the train through from bathgate or the return to bathgate at the times I want when I'm working, and it seems likely to impact my plans for my gig next weekend.

You could be correct on pilots, I thought I had seen they were paid about £40,000 as a starting salary on the budget airlines.

I get the point about Train drivers having to deal with outside issues on the track ect but then you could say the same about bus drivers who also transport hundreds of people a day and also have to work nights and weekends. I believe a bus driver is paid about half of what a train driver is paid for doing broadly similar roles.

Is a train driver overpaid or a bus driver underpaid?

[Lendo]

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You could be correct on pilots, I thought I had seen they were paid about £40,000 as a starting salary on the budget airlines.

I get the point about Train drivers having to deal with outside issues on the track ect but then you could say the same about bus drivers who also transport hundreds of people a day and also have to work nights and weekends. I believe a bus driver is paid about half of what a train driver is paid for doing broadly similar roles.

Is a train driver overpaid or a bus driver underpaid?

A Ryanair or EasyJet pilot makes on average £39k pa which is wild given the level of responsibility they have. That’s according to Glassdoor. Guessing that the role is a stepping stone, like it is for stewards, to bigger and better airlines.

A London tube driver makes on average £60k

[Jack]

Nurses won't go on strike. Employers take advantage.

[Onceinawhile]

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You could be correct on pilots, I thought I had seen they were paid about £40,000 as a starting salary on the budget airlines.

I get the point about Train drivers having to deal with outside issues on the track ect but then you could say the same about bus drivers who also transport hundreds of people a day and also have to work nights and weekends. I believe a bus driver is paid about half of what a train driver is paid for doing broadly similar roles.

Is a train driver overpaid or a bus driver underpaid?

I would argue both an element of both tbh. I think salaries for a bus driver are around 29-32K. That should probably go up, and train driver should probably be lower (in an ideal world).

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A Ryanair or EasyJet pilot makes on average £39k pa which is wild given the level of responsibility they have. That’s according to Glassdoor. Guessing that the role is a stepping stone, like it is for stewards, to bigger and better airlines.

A London tube driver makes on average £60k

I'm genuinely amazed that a pilot earns that little. Would not have expected it at all.

Not so surprised about the tube driver. The London weighting probably adds 7-10K to that Job and it is apparently incredibly stressful. I certainly wouldn't want a job where you only see daylight infrequently.

[Pretty Boy]

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A Ryanair or EasyJet pilot makes on average £39k pa which is wild given the level of responsibility they have. That’s according to Glassdoor. Guessing that the role is a stepping stone, like it is for stewards, to bigger and better airlines.

A London tube driver makes on average £60k

Pilots salries tend to progress quite quickly as they log flying hours. £25Kish starting salary for Junior First Officers becomes £45K for a First Officer and can become £100K+ for senior Pilots. It's about 6-7 years to progress to the pilot role.

The likes of Easyjet have a big academy so a lot of people coming in at the lower end of the scale which will drag their average down.

Worth considering as well that the training cost is around £100K. Quite often airlines will subsidise this to varying extents or even completely underwrite it in exceptional circumstances.

[Since90+2]

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I would argue both an element of both tbh. I think salaries for a bus driver are around 29-32K. That should probably go up, and train driver should probably be lower (in an ideal world).



I'm genuinely amazed that a pilot earns that little. Would not have expected it at all.

Not so surprised about the tube driver. The London weighting probably adds 7-10K to that Job and it is apparently incredibly stressful. I certainly wouldn't want a job where you only see daylight infrequently.

A fully qualified bus driver with Lothian Buses starts on £25.5k and goes up to 29.5k after 3 years. A trainee driver will be on significantly less.

[Ozyhibby]

Given that the tech exists already for trains not to have a driver at all then I’d say that it’s a good wage. The rail unions are strong because of their ability to bring an economy to a standstill. That’s why their wages are high.
SG have made a smart move in reducing the timetable. It means that the drivers will need to go on full strike now to force any further disruption. There is not a lot of public sympathy for the drivers yet and if they escalate then I can’t see that changing. And I would imagine that the drivers themselves don’t have the appetite for their income going to zero if they go on full strike.


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[danhibees1875]

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Given that the tech exists already for trains not to have a driver at all then I’d say that it’s a good wage. The rail unions are strong because of their ability to bring an economy to a standstill. That’s why their wages are high.
SG have made a smart move in reducing the timetable. It means that the drivers will need to go on full strike now to force any further disruption. There is not a lot of public sympathy for the drivers yet and if they escalate then I can’t see that changing. And I would imagine that the drivers themselves don’t have the appetite for their income going to zero if they go on full strike.


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Reduce the timetable now so that they can't threaten to reduce the timetable later - that's straight out of the Terry Butcher 'how to deal with industrial action' playbook.

[Ozyhibby]

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Reduce the timetable now so that they can't threaten to reduce the timetable later - that's straight out of the Terry Butcher 'how to deal with industrial action' playbook.

They have reduced the timetable rather than try and keep the timetable running and having services cancelled at the last minute, which annoys people more.
The next move is the drivers, do they escalate or capitulate?


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[Since90+2]

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They have reduced the timetable rather than try and keep the timetable running and having services cancelled at the last minute, which annoys people more.
The next move is the drivers, do they escalate or capitulate?


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I've not followed it that closely but is there not a 3rd option for drivers where they just continue in perpetuity with the reduced service? I think they are still on full pay, minus overtime obviously, but given they earn in excess of 50k a year they could probably stick it out for a good while whilst the Scottish night-time economy takes an absolute tanking.

[danhibees1875]

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They have reduced the timetable rather than try and keep the timetable running and having services cancelled at the last minute, which annoys people more.
The next move is the drivers, do they escalate or capitulate?


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I get more annoyed by Hibs conceding in the last minute, it doesn't make me any less entertained by shoehorning in that Terry Butcher comment whenever I can.

It sounded like they were planning to escalate it anyway. An article I read the other day had them targeting August time with all the associated Edinburgh festivities.

[Lendo]

So are the strikes up here just ahead of the curve? Will this be expected to take pace down south too in the next few weeks?

[Ozyhibby]

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I've not followed it that closely but is there not a 3rd option for drivers where they just continue in perpetuity with the reduced service? I think they are still on full pay, minus overtime obviously, but given they earn in excess of 50k a year they could probably stick it out for a good while whilst the Scottish night-time economy takes an absolute tanking.

They can do that as well but the SG is training more drivers and if that keeps up then they could be saying goodbye to their overtime for good. And of course the more drivers there are, the less bargaining power they will have.


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[Ozyhibby]

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So are the strikes up here just ahead of the curve? Will this be expected to take pace down south too in the next few weeks?

It looks like it.


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[Since90+2]

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They can do that as well but the SG is training more drivers and if that keeps up then they could be saying goodbye to their overtime for good. And of course the more drivers there are, the less bargaining power they will have.


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It would take about 18 months to train more drivers. The loss to the economy would be absolutely huge if that was allowed to happen.

I've just read it's estimated the reduced timetable will cost around £80 million a week to the Scottish economy. £80 million x80 weeks is running into the billions, no government is going to allow the strike to run that long and cost the country billions.

I don't particularly have an opinion either way on the strike but it appears to me doing some sums it's the drivers who hold the aces here and not the SG.

[Ozyhibby]

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It would take about 18 months to train more drivers. The loss to the economy would be absolutely huge if that was allowed to happen.

I agree. I think the new drivers have already started their training and some are almost finished.
I can see both sides of the argument here with inflation so high but I can also see the SG’s point that they can’t go higher.
I suspect that the drivers might be overplaying their hand here though.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

freakin £52k for sitting reading a paper whilst the train trundles along on auto-pilot


opening and closing doors at platforms

flicking a few switches for heating/Air conditioning



gies a job






or maybe a little more complicated ? :) either way tell them to gtf and think of the millions less well off and having to choose between Eating or Heating... ****s

[Hibbyradge]

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Nurses won't go on strike. Employers take advantage.

Most nurses are women...

[Since90+2]

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Most nurses are women...

Most bus drivers are men.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jackson_carlaw/s...Sbx4iu-6hzWiKg

Jackson Carlaw being taken to task, mostly by Englands rail users.


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[Smartie]

Are they still looking for train drivers?

I was seriously considering a career change and it was something that appealed.

[Ozyhibby]

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Are they still looking for train drivers?

I was seriously considering a career change and it was something that appealed.

Yes, I believe so. From what I understand it’s great pay and conditions.


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[Santa Cruz]

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Are they still looking for train drivers?

I was seriously considering a career change and it was something that appealed.

No vacancies on their website. They're after a Workforce Planning Officer, sounds like an important role, wonder why the person left who was previously doing this job

[Just Alf]

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https://twitter.com/jackson_carlaw/s...Sbx4iu-6hzWiKg

Jackson Carlaw being taken to task, mostly by Englands rail users.


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There was a segment on the radio Scotland news earlier, they mentioned Sturgeon now being the longest serving first minister, the *only* person interviewed was Carlaw, and obviously all negative.

Balance?

Ps... this annoys me more than it should but I got really fed up of cranks being given airtime over covid, brexit etc spouting provable lies but the defence was it was to provide "balance"... sigh.. :-(

[Northernhibee]

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freakin £52k for sitting reading a paper whilst the train trundles along on auto-pilot


opening and closing doors at platforms

flicking a few switches for heating/Air conditioning



gies a job






or maybe a little more complicated ? :) either way tell them to gtf and think of the millions less well off and having to choose between Eating or Heating... ****s

They had a driver on LBC a few days ago. Three times hospitalised from people throwing things through the window and either getting injuries from glass or the object. Dealing with people leaping in front of the trains and being powerless to not hit them. Long hours, Stressful job, large responsibilities, multiple routes to learn. Tracks in poor condition so lots of considerations to make in inclement weather (think to the Stonehaven rail disaster).

Just because someone feels underpaid doesn't mean that you shouldn't support those who feel the same but are doing something about it.

[He's here!]

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A fully qualified bus driver with Lothian Buses starts on £25.5k and goes up to 29.5k after 3 years. A trainee driver will be on significantly less.

Some of them can be grumpy but bearing in mind the number of bampots they have to deal with (not to mention navigating Edinburgh's roadworks infested streets) on a daily basis I think they more than earn their money. No chance I'd want to drive a bus for a living.

[Since90+2]

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Some of them can be grumpy but bearing in mind the number of bampots they have to deal with (not to mention navigating Edinburgh's roadworks infested streets) on a daily basis I think they more than earn their money. No chance I'd want to drive a bus for a living.

I agree, well atleast in terms of their salary compared to a train driver. Bus drivers also have to deal with the public, including bams and drunks directly, whereas a train driver will have very little interaction with the general public.