SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Berwickhibby]

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Absolutely. In the eyes of the law he has not committed a crime. But I've been questioning your actions not his. I'd suggest your comment is quite possibly libelous.

No matter what I think personally of any politician, or anyone else for that matter, I wouldn't be going on a public forum describing them as something the police have investigated him for and stated quite clearly no law was broken.

There is a whole string of posts discussing Prince Andrew’s beast like behaviour and he has never been found guilty or charged with any crime….I don’t recall you posting about others describing him as a peado libellous… both escaped justice in my opinion

[Jack]

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There is a whole string of posts discussing Prince Andrew’s beast like behaviour and he has never been found guilty or charged with any crime….I don’t recall you posting about others describing him as a peado libellous… both escaped justice in my opinion

I can't remember looking at that thread as I had no interest in the subject so I can't comment on that.

[Sergio sledge]

https://mullandionaferrycommittee.or...ferent-prices/

I don't know the history or leanings of the source, and I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions regarding the tendering process and, presumably, privatisation making things better, but I thought this was an interesting comparison between Norwegian ferries getting built at the same time as CalMac's new ferries in Turkey.

Having used the Norwegian ferries a few times I have to say the operation, efficiency and reliability puts our ferries to shame.

[Ozyhibby]

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https://mullandionaferrycommittee.or...ferent-prices/

I don't know the history or leanings of the source, and I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions regarding the tendering process and, presumably, privatisation making things better, but I thought this was an comparison between Norwegian ferries getting built at the same time as CalMac's new ferries in Turkey.

Having used the Norwegian ferries a few times I have to say the operation, efficiency and reliability puts our ferries to shame.

That makes horrible reading. They should be going to the Turks and asking if they can just have two more of what the Norwegians ordered.


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[Skol]

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That makes horrible reading. They should be going to the Turks and asking if they can just have two more of what the Norwegians ordered.


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No idea if its true, but apparently we pay more because of the bespoke nature of our designs. Much of which are based on demands from unions for on board crew facilities

[Ozyhibby]

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No idea if its true, but apparently we pay more because of the bespoke nature of our designs. Much of which are based on demands from unions for on board crew facilities

What is the longest crossing these boats do? Surely we shouldn’t need on board cabins for crew?


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[Skol]

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What is the longest crossing these boats do? Surely we shouldn’t need on board cabins for crew?


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That was my immediate thought, but apparently its for when they are not sailing, the crew need living and leisure facilities on board and having such facilities on land is not acceptable to the unions.

[Just Alf]

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That was my immediate thought, but apparently its for when they are not sailing, the crew need living and leisure facilities on board and having such facilities on land is not acceptable to the unions.

Crazy... it would be cheaper to buy a nearby hotel and set it up as crew quarters!

[Sergio sledge]

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Crazy... it would be cheaper to buy a nearby hotel and set it up as crew quarters!

Yeah you would think so, they could buy a hotel at every port they sail from for less than the additional cost of one single ferry.

You've got to wonder why in Norway they only need 10 crew for their larger ferry but we have facilities for 31?

[Ozyhibby]

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Yeah you would think so, they could buy a hotel at every port they sail from for less than the additional cost of one single ferry.

You've got to wonder why in Norway they only need 10 crew for their larger ferry but we have facilities for 31?

I think that’s down to the fact we feel the need to put restaurants and bars on ferries even if it’s only a short trip.


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[JeMeSouviens]

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What is the longest crossing these boats do? Surely we shouldn’t need on board cabins for crew?


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I think the longest calmac sailing is Oban-Barra which takes about 5 hours, but I guess they usually sail there and back as one long shift?

The Islay ferry they're talking about in that article is just over 2 hours. They do 4 or 5 crossings a day, some to Port Ellen and some to Port Askaig.

[Ozyhibby]

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I think the longest calmac sailing is Oban-Barra which takes about 5 hours, but I guess they usually sail there and back as one long shift?

The Islay ferry they're talking about in that article is just over 2 hours. They do 4 or 5 crossings a day, some to Port Ellen and some to Port Askaig.

So there absolutely zero need for on board accommodation. And if this was run by a private business that had to make money, there wouldn’t be.


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[Stairway 2 7]

For they short journeys it should be kitted out like a bus. You could have a hot drinks and a snacks vending machine if needed.

[WhileTheChief..]

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So there absolutely zero need for on board accommodation. And if this was run by a private business that had to make money, there wouldn’t be.


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I mentioned this on another thread.

Expert on Radio Scotland talking about the design of the boats being all wrong and having sleeping quarters for up to 50 staff, amongst many other problems.

It was rubbished though, cause folk took it as a criticism of the SNP gov.

[WhileTheChief..]

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For they short journeys it should be kitted out like a bus. You could have a hot drinks and a snacks vending machine if needed.

The Ardrossan crossing is 45 mins but the boats have restaurants to cater for 3 course meals on them!!!

[Sergio sledge]

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The Ardrossan crossing is 45 mins but the boats have restaurants to cater for 3 course meals on them!!!

Mental.

[marinello59]

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So there absolutely zero need for on board accommodation. And if this was run by a private business that had to make money, there wouldn’t be.


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When I was at sea a lot of people genuinely used to think that we tied up every night and all went to sleep. Good to see that level of misunderstanding as to how vessels are actually run is still around to provide a few laughs.
Seafarers rights have been eroded massively since the early 70s. Blaming the cost of new ferries on Union demands is really no different from laying the blame for the P and O crews sacking on themselves for requiring decent wages. I do respect that you have always been consistent with your Thatcherite anti union views. For me though the most important thing by far any of us can do at the present time to improve our day to day lives is to join a Union .

[marinello59]

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The Ardrossan crossing is 45 mins but the boats have restaurants to cater for 3 course meals on them!!!

Self service cafeteria style restaraunts that people actually use. Let’s not try to pretend there’s full silver service going on.

[Ozyhibby]

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When I was at sea a lot of people genuinely used to think that we tied up every night and all went to sleep. Good to see that level of misunderstanding as to how vessels are actually run is still around to provide a few laughs.
Seafarers rights have been eroded massively since the early 70s. Blaming the cost of new ferries on Union demands is really no different from laying the blame for the P and O crews sacking on themselves for requiring decent wages. I do respect that you have always been consistent with your Thatcherite anti union views. For me though the most important thing by far any of us can do at the present time to improve our day to day lives is to join a Union .

I bet the crew on those Norwegian boats are earning a pittance as well.
If a boats crossing time is only a couple of hours, why do staff need to live aboard?


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[Mon_the_cabbage]

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I mentioned this on another thread.

Expert on Radio Scotland talking about the design of the boats being all wrong and having sleeping quarters for up to 50 staff, amongst many other problems.

It was rubbished though, cause folk took it as a criticism of the SNP gov.

With all due respect it was rubbished because it is erm rubbish. Nothing to do with SNP.
Cal Mac in line with most other ferry companies operate an offshore/onshore shift pattern. Typically this can be two weeks on/ two weeks off.

A quick google shows DFDS and P & O (not the best example I admit) operate in the same patterns.

[Ozyhibby]

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Self service restaraunts that people actually use. Let’s not try to pretend there’s full silver service going on.

I’m sure they are used but are they cost effective? If they are making new ferries unaffordable, are they worth it?
I’m not really making a point about workers conditions, this is about why we are paying double what the Norwegians are paying for these boats. Sounds like we need a lot of new ones and it’s time we looked at getting them a bit cheaper.


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[marinello59]

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I bet the crew on those Norwegian boats are earning a pittance as well.
If a boats crossing time is only a couple of hours, why do staff need to live aboard?


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Do you honestly think these large vessels are like cars, the crew hop on, do their single crossing for the day then tie up and go home?
When do you think maintenance is done? How about security whilst alongside? Or the nights that can be spent constantly checking and adjusting moorings whilst alongside when the wind gets up. Who moves the vessel when another arrival needs the berth? When is the compulsory regular onboard training done. Do you think the crews all live within commuting distance of the vessel they are employed on? Have you considered the cost of onshore food , travel and accomodation costs?
I’ll stop now, I’m even finding myself annoying.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Self service cafeteria style restaraunts that people actually use. Let’s not try to pretend there’s full silver service going on.

Why is any needed if not in other nations. Why does Norway need only 11 staff. I'm sure they are just as safe

[Mon_the_cabbage]

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Do you honestly think these large vessels are like cars, the crew hop on, do their single crossing for the day then tie up and go home?
When do you think maintenance is done? How about security whilst alongside? Or the nights that can be spent constantly checking and adjusting moorings whilst alongside when the wind gets up. Who moves the vessel when another arrival needs the berth? When is the compulsory regular onboard training done. Do you think the crews all live within commuting distance of the vessel they are employed on? Have you considered the cost of onshore food , travel and accomodation costs?
I’ll stop now, I’m even finding myself annoying.

I’m glad you’ve arrived! 😬😬😬😬

I’ve been relying on what I knew of a Cal Mac officer I know through my daughter! I can pipe down now!

[ronaldo7]

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The Ardrossan crossing is 45 mins but the boats have restaurants to cater for 3 course meals on them!!!

Interesting that you've picked out this crossing, as it's the only one to offer food. The rest of the ferries only offer tea, coffee, and snacks as far as I can see.

Pesky Scots, wanting better services for their cash. 😆

[Stairway 2 7]

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Interesting that you've picked out this crossing, as it's the only one to offer food. The rest of the ferries only offer tea, coffee, and snacks as far as I can see.

Pesky Scots, wanting better services for their cash. 😆

Both ships are double the price due to needing catering facilities and 3 times the staff than Norway

[Skol]

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I’m sure they are used but are they cost effective? If they are making new ferries unaffordable, are they worth it?
I’m not really making a point about workers conditions, this is about why we are paying double what the Norwegians are paying for these boats. Sounds like we need a lot of new ones and it’s time we looked at getting them a bit cheaper.


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There is an irony here that Norway are held up as an example of why Scotland should be independent, but when its suggested we follow their lead its not workable !

I know this is a small thing in the bigger scheme of things, but this is an example where different thinking is required.

I get that boats need looking after, but accommodation and gyms on board for the few when you could have that on shore just doesnt make sense.

[Just Alf]

I think I should probably point out there's a few indy/snp supporters arguing that these ferries are overpriced... its really not a case of snp can do no bad so nothing to see here as is some times made out.

[ronaldo7]

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Both ships are double the price due to needing catering facilities and 3 times the staff than Norway

I wasn't commenting on the new boats, it was the facilities currently offered I was commenting on. I'll have a look at your link regarding the 2 new boats and comparisons to Norway later, if that's ok. 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

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I wasn't commenting on the new boats, it was the facilities currently offered I was commenting on. I'll have a look at your link regarding the 2 new boats and comparisons to Norway later, if that's ok. 😉

Not my link but it's up to you and overall not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things