Coronavirus

[Stairway 2 7]

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Your last sentence may not be true. It's quite common for scientists to go support the current narrative in order to retain their funding. It happens in many fields such as Egyptology, go speak against the mainstream and your funding is withdrawn and you no longer have a job.

I'm not saying this is definitely what is happening regarding Covid vaccines but it's a distinct possibility. There are scientists and medical professionals that do speak up but they tend to be ridiculed unfairly in the media or censored so what they are trying to say doesn't even reach the majority of the population. Leaked emails have recently been released where Fauci and another government official are discussing how they are going to stamp down a paper against lockdowns, signed by hundreds of doctors, virologist and scientists.

Nah the data doesn't lie and it's being studied by too many people. There's almost a dozen vaccines that didn't make it as the data was poor, from the biggest pharma groups like gsk.

The government and az would have liked under 40s to have az, but the scientific community said although tiny the heart risk means only mrna. Blood clots and heart inflammation was flagged early and widely

[superfurryhibby]

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He's an idiot, you're should send him the article and please read it too

I don't find that kind of response particularly useful.

[SChibs]

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Nah the data doesn't lie and it's being studied by too many people. There's almost a dozen vaccines that didn't make it as the data was poor, from the biggest pharma groups like gsk.

The government and az would have liked under 40s to have az, but the scientific community said although tiny the heart risk means only mrna. Blood clots and heart inflammation was flagged early and widely

The data from the trials for the Pfizer vaccines won't be made public for 80 years, I'm not sure about the other manufacturers. I think this data should be available to the public so people can have a bit more trust in the vaccines and believe there is nothing being hidden from them. It's perfectly reasonable for people to want to read the data for themselves and be sceptical when the data is made unavailable to them. Surely it would be within the publics interest to have the actual information provided to them rather than being told, 'I'm a scientist so just believe me'.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I don't find that kind of response particularly useful.

Yeah it's poor to be fair, misinformed better.

[Stairway 2 7]

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The data from the trials for the Pfizer vaccines won't be made public for 80 years, I'm not sure about the other manufacturers. I think this data should be available to the public so people can have a bit more trust in the vaccines and believe there is nothing being hidden from them. It's perfectly reasonable for people to want to read the data for themselves and be sceptical when the data is made unavailable to them. Surely it would be within the publics interest to have the actual information provided to them rather than being told, 'I'm a scientist so just believe me'.

The data from the trials were released last December. Absolute mases of information. Do you not think they would keep myocarditis quiet if there was a cover up. UK releases every noted side effect observed every week.

[HibsGW]

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The data from the trials were released last December. Absolute mases of information. Do you not think they would keep myocarditis quiet if there was a cover up. UK releases every noted side effect observed every week.

There’s also data on gov websites about any noted side effects outside of trials. There’s all the date you’d need. I don’t know why there always has to be some big cover up, I think people just want the story to be a lot more interesting than it is.

[SChibs]

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The data from the trials were released last December. Absolute mases of information. Do you not think they would keep myocarditis quiet if there was a cover up. UK releases every noted side effect observed every week.

Think we are talking about different studies/information

[Mon Dieu4]

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There’s also data on gov websites about any noted side effects outside of trials. There’s all the date you’d need. I don’t know why there always has to be some big cover up, I think people just want the story to be a lot more interesting than it is.

I looked at that the other day, 400k people had received some kind of side effect, I thought that seemed high until I saw we have done over 135m jags, works out about 0.002% risk I think

[SChibs]

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I looked at that the other day, 400k people had received some kind of side effect, I thought that seemed high until I saw we have done over 135m jags, works out about 0.002% risk I think

About the same risk as a young healthy person dying from covid

[Mon Dieu4]

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About the same risk as a young person dying from covid

Yep, one of the reasons I'd be in two minds to give it to kids or not

[superfurryhibby]

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Yeah it's poor to be fair, misinformed better.

Ridicule is never a good way to make a contribution to any discussion, no matter how convinced or certain you feel about the righteousness of your convictions.

There are legitimate concerns; around vaccination, the corruption associated with the contracts and management of resources, the divisive nature of the narrative and the erosion of rights.

It should be a semi-respectful conversation, not a one person crusade to blow any dissenting voice out the water.

[danhibees1875]

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I looked at that the other day, 400k people had received some kind of side effect, I thought that seemed high until I saw we have done over 135m jags, works out about 0.002% risk I think

Did they say how they defined a side effect?

I felt crap for a day after the first 2. After the booster my arm was a little sore but nothing more.

I assume that doesn't count as I'd then have expected the figure to be much higher than 400k.

[SChibs]

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Yep, one of the reasons I'd be in two minds to give it to kids or not

I wouldn't be giving it to kids, but then again I think everyone who is deemed medium-high risk should get it as the data is obvious in the support for that. It should also be available for anyone over 16 who wants it. However healthy under 30s with no underlying conditions should be given the choice and not be treated any differently for the decision they make.

It's all down to where we draw our lines, it looks like your line is drawn at kids and I respect your opinion on that. Mine is drawn at under 30s but I end up getting tarnished (not really on here) as an antivax nut job who believes microchips are being planted into us and that's why I havent had 3 jabs. It's frustrating that the media and government turn everything into a you vs them scenario like it's a black or white matter when in reality there's lots of grey in the middle.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Did they say how they defined a side effect?

I felt crap for a day after the first 2. After the booster my arm was a little sore but nothing more.

I assume that doesn't count as I'd then have expected the figure to be much higher than 400k.

Think it was pretty much anything, but they rely on the public to tell them the side effects they are having, unless it's something pretty major the majority of people won't have done that

[SChibs]

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I looked at that the other day, 400k people had received some kind of side effect, I thought that seemed high until I saw we have done over 135m jags, works out about 0.002% risk I think

Just looking at the figures there 400k out of 135m is 0.29% chance I'm sure. Someone might correct me on that but it reinforces my point regarding young healthy folks chances of side effects vs serious covid

[Mon Dieu4]

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Just looking at the figures there 400k out of 135m is 0.29% chance I'm sure. Someone might correct me on that but it reinforces my point regarding young healthy folks chances of side effects vs serious covid

That was all side effects though, if we are talking life threatening or altering I'm sure it's a small fraction of that 400k

[superfurryhibby]

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Think it was pretty much anything, but they rely on the public to tell them the side effects they are having, unless it's something pretty major the majority of people won't have done that

Of course. Some people I know have said they felt unwell with the booster. Mostly a couple of days, temperature and feeling knocked for six. A couple have said it lasted a bit longer |(one close friend has said he has had recurring episodes of fever and feeling run down since the booster). A smaller number have said it had no effect, beyond the sore arm.

No one I know has gone to their Doctors to report this.

Is this normal? Possibly so. Either way, I do believe it's a thing.

[SChibs]

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Of course. Some people I know have said they felt unwell with the booster. Mostly a couple of days, temperature and feeling knocked for six. A couple have said it lasted a bit longer |(one close friend has said he has had recurring episodes of fever and feeling run down since the booster). A smaller number have said it had no effect, beyond the sore arm.

No one I know has gone to their Doctors to report this.

Is this normal? Possibly so. Either way, I do believe it's a thing.

Vaccine side effects are always under reported because as you say not everyone goes to their doctor. Someone might get a side effect, check online and see that it's normal so wait it out and be fine once it subsides
They won't report it so it never gets recorded. However the most serious side effects do tend to be recorded more accurately as they often require medical treatment

[JeMeSouviens]

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Of course. Some people I know have said they felt unwell with the booster. Mostly a couple of days, temperature and feeling knocked for six. A couple have said it lasted a bit longer |(one close friend has said he has had recurring episodes of fever and feeling run down since the booster). A smaller number have said it had no effect, beyond the sore arm.

No one I know has gone to their Doctors to report this.

Is this normal? Possibly so. Either way, I do believe it's a thing.

Totally. Something designed to provoke an immune response has provoked an immune response. That's what it's for.

[Hibbyradge]

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About the same risk as a young healthy person dying from covid

A side effect is somewhat different to death.

I'd rather risk the former.

[Hibbyradge]

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Just looking at the figures there 400k out of 135m is 0.29% chance I'm sure. Someone might correct me on that but it reinforces my point regarding young healthy folks chances of side effects vs serious covid

It's side effects v death.

I can't think of any reason not to give the vaccination to children generally.

[Santa Cruz]

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Did they say how they defined a side effect?

I felt crap for a day after the first 2. After the booster my arm was a little sore but nothing more.

I assume that doesn't count as I'd then have expected the figure to be much higher than 400k.

It's any side effect no matter how minor.

The yellow card scheme is a tool used to record adverse reactions for all medications. It's probably in the small print info leaflet that comes with all medications.

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/_asse...nt-YC-form.pdf

[SChibs]

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It's side effects v death.

I can't think of any reason not to give the vaccination to children generally.

The CDC came out and admitted 12-17 year olds were 5-6 times more likely to be admitted to hospital with vaccine side effects than covid itself. That's a good enough reason for me

[SChibs]

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A side effect is somewhat different to death.

I'd rather risk the former.

It's like having a 1,000,000 to 1 bet and a 100,000 to 1 bet. One is 10 times more likely to come in but in reality both are extremely unlikely.

[Hibbyradge]

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The CDC came out and admitted 12-17 year olds were 5-6 times more likely to be admitted to hospital with vaccine side effects than covid itself. That's a good enough reason for me

I haven't seen that report.

If that's the case, then I understand your point.

However, if the vaccine is being recommend for children, I would think that the risks of Covid are greater than the risks of the vaccine.

Why would they recommend it otherwise?

[Since90+2]

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I haven't seen that report.

If that's the case, then I understand your point.

However, if the vaccine is being recommend for children, I would think that the risks of Covid are greater than the risks of the vaccine.

Why would they recommend it otherwise?

Was it not to essentially calm the spread of the virus by vaccinating kids to stop then spreading it to the more vulnerable? I think that was the primary driver rather than to protect against severe illness.

[Hibbyradge]

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Was it not to essentially calm the spread of the virus by vaccinating kids to stop then spreading it to the more vulnerable? I think that was the primary driver rather than to protect against severe illness.

The vaccines don't stop the spread, do they?

[Since90+2]

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The vaccines don't stop the spread, do they?

Well, yes, if they are vaccinated they are less likely to catch it, therefore the number of kids who can then pass it on is reduced.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I haven't seen that report.

If that's the case, then I understand your point.

However, if the vaccine is being recommend for children, I would think that the risks of Covid are greater than the risks of the vaccine.

Why would they recommend it otherwise?

Not sure if I misunderstood the poster with the pal in the Sick Kids, but is the point not about the potential fertility risks? We can't have any data about that yet for kids.

[goosano]

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I haven't seen that report.

If that's the case, then I understand your point.

However, if the vaccine is being recommend for children, I would think that the risks of Covid are greater than the risks of the vaccine.

Why would they recommend it otherwise?

If I had a son I would think long and hard sbout giving him the vaccine. Boys are 10 times more likely to get myocarditis than girls.