Tories are still lying *******s

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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There are more than 2 genders though. That's been accepted in various cultures for centuries, perhaps even millenia.

Unless you are conflating gender and biological sex?

Are there? Please elaborate. How many genders are there? How does does gender differ from biological sex? Lots of things have existed for millennia which are perverse; human sacrifice, polygamy, owning slaves to name just a few. The theory that there are more than 2 genders is not based in fact or reality. It is a political idea. Marxists decided that everyone has to be regarded is an equal in every way. They therefore created the idea the idea of gender neutrality. The woke claim gender is socially constructed. It's quite the opposite, gender roles are based on the typical traits and particular strengths which men and women have innately. That is to say, natural human behaviours which are not taught. The marxist invention of gender neutrality has been constructed to match their ideology. Everything must be altered to fit the marxist view. Of course, disagreeing is unacceptable. I honestly cannot believe how many of you have fallen for this. What happen to critical thinking? Just look at the world around you rather than blindly following a political idea. As a teenager growing up in Leith in the late 80's/ early 90s, I could never have imagined people thinking like this. That's not to say change didn't need to happen. It absolutely did. We all said things in those days we'd now be ashamed of. But seriously, it's gone too far. It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

[hibsbollah]

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Are there? Please elaborate. How many genders are there? How does does gender differ from biological sex? Lots of things have existed for millennia which are perverse; human sacrifice, polygamy, owning slaves to name just a few. The theory that there are more than 2 genders is not based in fact or reality. It is a political idea. Marxists decided that everyone has to be regarded is an equal in every way. They therefore created the idea the idea of gender neutrality. The woke claim gender is socially constructed. It's quite the opposite, gender roles are based on the typical traits and particular strengths which men and women have innately. That is to say, natural human behaviours which are not taught. The marxist invention of gender neutrality has been constructed to match their ideology. Everything must be altered to fit the marxist view. Of course, disagreeing is unacceptable. I honestly cannot believe how many of you have fallen for this. What happen to critical thinking? Just look at the world around you rather than blindly following a political idea. As a teenager growing up in Leith in the late 80's/ early 90s, I could never have imagined people thinking like this. That's not to say change didn't need to happen. It absolutely did. We all said things in those days we'd now be ashamed of. But seriously, it's gone too far. It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

I had to read Das Kapital a few times at uni. I can honestly say Marx had nothing to say whatsoever about ‘gender neutrality’. Lots of Marxists are very misogynistic and are as likely to have old fashioned ideas about sex and gender as right wingers, who are probably just as likely to be queer/trans/whatever as anyone else.

Maybe you’re confusing Marx with Mark from Trainspotting ‘One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just ******s. Sounds great to me.’

[lapsedhibee]

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Are there? Please elaborate. How many genders are there? How does does gender differ from biological sex? Lots of things have existed for millennia which are perverse; human sacrifice, polygamy, owning slaves to name just a few. The theory that there are more than 2 genders is not based in fact or reality. It is a political idea. Marxists decided that everyone has to be regarded is an equal in every way. They therefore created the idea the idea of gender neutrality. The woke claim gender is socially constructed. It's quite the opposite, gender roles are based on the typical traits and particular strengths which men and women have innately. That is to say, natural human behaviours which are not taught. The marxist invention of gender neutrality has been constructed to match their ideology. Everything must be altered to fit the marxist view. Of course, disagreeing is unacceptable. I honestly cannot believe how many of you have fallen for this. What happen to critical thinking? Just look at the world around you rather than blindly following a political idea. As a teenager growing up in Leith in the late 80's/ early 90s, I could never have imagined people thinking like this. That's not to say change didn't need to happen. It absolutely did. We all said things in those days we'd now be ashamed of. But seriously, it's gone too far. It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

What century are you posting from, if you don't mind me asking?

[Jack]

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Are there? Please elaborate. How many genders are there? How does does gender differ from biological sex? Lots of things have existed for millennia which are perverse; human sacrifice, polygamy, owning slaves to name just a few. The theory that there are more than 2 genders is not based in fact or reality. It is a political idea. Marxists decided that everyone has to be regarded is an equal in every way. They therefore created the idea the idea of gender neutrality. The woke claim gender is socially constructed. It's quite the opposite, gender roles are based on the typical traits and particular strengths which men and women have innately. That is to say, natural human behaviours which are not taught. The marxist invention of gender neutrality has been constructed to match their ideology. Everything must be altered to fit the marxist view. Of course, disagreeing is unacceptable. I honestly cannot believe how many of you have fallen for this. What happen to critical thinking? Just look at the world around you rather than blindly following a political idea. As a teenager growing up in Leith in the late 80's/ early 90s, I could never have imagined people thinking like this. That's not to say change didn't need to happen. It absolutely did. We all said things in those days we'd now be ashamed of. But seriously, it's gone too far. It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

You could start by looking up hermaphrodite.

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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It will be interesting to see what happens in England going forward and I do think it might be doing a fair few of them a disservice by saying that "the English can see no wrong and vote them in".

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The last few elections have been a bit unusual and fought on different territory than usual. As they've gone down the nationalist rabbit hole they've ended up caring a lot more about issues like Brexit and have ultimately been prepared to turn a blind eye to a few undesirable traits to get what they want.

The opposition also have to take a bit of responsibility for not making a strong enough case for someone else and something else.

We'll see where they go in future. I loathe this bunch of utterly incompetent and corrupt charlatans as much as the next person but as Brexit disappears into the rear view mirror a bit, Scotland grapples with its own constitutional issues (with knock on effects for the Labour Party throughout the UK) then it will be very interesting to see who and what England will want in future, and why.

Is there anyone worth voting for? I'm suggesting people should abstain from voting, but the current options are unappealing to say the least. I'm not sure how others feel, but I don't think I've ever been more disillusioned with politics.

[Kato]

Seems to me like there exists a spectrum of genders, like the flag you see on Pride marches it shows a spectrum because that's where our genders lie. Two shades of that spectrum seem to be the most populated but there are other shades. If you learn to see that exists and respect that then taking up extreme views isn't necessary, whatever side of the debate they come from.

[Kato]

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It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

Was that not Brexit?

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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I had to read Das Kapital a few times at uni. I can honestly say Marx had nothing to say whatsoever about ‘gender neutrality’. Lots of Marxists are very misogynistic and are as likely to have old fashioned ideas about sex and gender as right wingers, who are probably just as likely to be queer/trans/whatever as anyone else.

Maybe you’re confusing Marx with Mark from Trainspotting ‘One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just ******s. Sounds great to me.’

Whilst Marx may not have necessarily promoted the idea, Marxists(those who took his ideas and ran with them) added 'gender neutrality' this to their list of 'must haves' for a truly equal society. Think of the poster with a women showing her bicep. How much further are we going to go with this idea? How many letters do add to LBGTQ? I can't say I've read Das Kapital. Feel free to call me out for criticising Marx when I haven't read his key piece of work. I'll take that on the chin. I can tell you that I have as much desire to read Das Kapital as I have to read Mein Kampf. The authors of both books and their ideas created misery, pain, imprisonment, suffering and death to millions. Two utterly poisonous regimes. The ideals behind both ideologies need to be consigned to history. That doesn't mean we forget about them. Doing so would only risk a repeat. They should be held up as examples of what not to do.

[Pretty Boy]

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Are there? Please elaborate. How many genders are there? How does does gender differ from biological sex? Lots of things have existed for millennia which are perverse; human sacrifice, polygamy, owning slaves to name just a few. The theory that there are more than 2 genders is not based in fact or reality. It is a political idea. Marxists decided that everyone has to be regarded is an equal in every way. They therefore created the idea the idea of gender neutrality. The woke claim gender is socially constructed. It's quite the opposite, gender roles are based on the typical traits and particular strengths which men and women have innately. That is to say, natural human behaviours which are not taught. The marxist invention of gender neutrality has been constructed to match their ideology. Everything must be altered to fit the marxist view. Of course, disagreeing is unacceptable. I honestly cannot believe how many of you have fallen for this. What happen to critical thinking? Just look at the world around you rather than blindly following a political idea. As a teenager growing up in Leith in the late 80's/ early 90s, I could never have imagined people thinking like this. That's not to say change didn't need to happen. It absolutely did. We all said things in those days we'd now be ashamed of. But seriously, it's gone too far. It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

Yes there are.

In Western thinking the idea of biological sex and gender being different constructs is a relatively recent discussion, certainly in mainstream thinking it found prominence among feminists in the 1970s.

There has been recognition of a 3rd (and 4th and 5th...)gender in various cultures for centuries as I have already stated. Polynesia, the Indian sub continent and South America being the most notable.

As for the difference between sex and gender the distinction of one being biological whilst the other is a social construct is not something I can attribute to Marx although I'm not that well read when it comes to old Karl so I may have missed it. I don't accept it's that difficult to see why multiple genders are possible even if we are accepting of the fact there are only 2 sexes (or 3 when you consider the 1.5% of people who are biologically intersex).

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...d95d03b1f03c48

Border Force seem to be falling out with Priti Patel. Apparently they are not keen on letting people drown at sea.




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[hibsbollah]

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Whilst Marx may not have necessarily promoted the idea, Marxists(those who took his ideas and ran with them) added 'gender neutrality' this to their list of 'must haves' for a truly equal society. Think of the poster with a women showing her bicep. How much further are we going to go with this idea? How many letters do add to LBGTQ? I can't say I've read Das Kapital. Feel free to call me out for criticising Marx when I haven't read his key piece of work. I'll take that on the chin. I can tell you that I have as much desire to read Das Kapital as I have to read Mein Kampf. The authors of both books and their ideas created misery, pain, imprisonment, suffering and death to millions. Two utterly poisonous regimes. The ideals behind both ideologies need to be consigned to history. That doesn't mean we forget about them. Doing so would only risk a repeat. They should be held up as examples of what not to do.

That’s absolutely up to you what books to read, obviously. I just think you’re very uninformed about what ‘Marxists’ believe, and if you want to understand it’s probably a good idea to read about it. I read Mein Kampf and managed to avoid believing in the moral righteousness of a liebensraum for the German race so it IS possible to read a book without being won over by its ideas

[Moulin Yarns]

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You could start by looking up hermaphrodite.

That's going to open a can of worms 😉

[hibsbollah]

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That's going to open a can of worms 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

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Are there? Please elaborate. How many genders are there? How does does gender differ from biological sex? Lots of things have existed for millennia which are perverse; human sacrifice, polygamy, owning slaves to name just a few. The theory that there are more than 2 genders is not based in fact or reality. It is a political idea. Marxists decided that everyone has to be regarded is an equal in every way. They therefore created the idea the idea of gender neutrality. The woke claim gender is socially constructed. It's quite the opposite, gender roles are based on the typical traits and particular strengths which men and women have innately. That is to say, natural human behaviours which are not taught. The marxist invention of gender neutrality has been constructed to match their ideology. Everything must be altered to fit the marxist view. Of course, disagreeing is unacceptable. I honestly cannot believe how many of you have fallen for this. What happen to critical thinking? Just look at the world around you rather than blindly following a political idea. As a teenager growing up in Leith in the late 80's/ early 90s, I could never have imagined people thinking like this. That's not to say change didn't need to happen. It absolutely did. We all said things in those days we'd now be ashamed of. But seriously, it's gone too far. It's a cultural revolution and it is going to end in misery.

Stop reading out of date books.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21

[Moulin Yarns]

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Thank you. 👍

[Bostonhibby]

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That's going to open a can of worms

I preferred when we were just looking to see if the Nasty party were still lying ********.

I've checked, they are.

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[hibsbollah]

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Whilst Marx may not have necessarily promoted the idea, Marxists(those who took his ideas and ran with them) added 'gender neutrality' this to their list of 'must haves' for a truly equal society. Think of the poster with a women showing her bicep. How much further are we going to go with this idea? How many letters do add to LBGTQ? I can't say I've read Das Kapital. Feel free to call me out for criticising Marx when I haven't read his key piece of work. I'll take that on the chin. I can tell you that I have as much desire to read Das Kapital as I have to read Mein Kampf. The authors of both books and their ideas created misery, pain, imprisonment, suffering and death to millions. Two utterly poisonous regimes. The ideals behind both ideologies need to be consigned to history. That doesn't mean we forget about them. Doing so would only risk a repeat. They should be held up as examples of what not to do.

Also, Rosie the Riveter was the poster you’re referring to, it was from WW2 a campaign by the Americans to encourage women to do the jobs that men couldn’t do because they were busy fighting the Nazis. All it’s doing is showing a physically strongwoman, gender doesn’t come into it.

You’re now confusing the wartime US Government with Marxism. Not really sure where we’re going from here…

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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Yes there are.

In Western thinking the idea of biological sex and gender being different constructs is a relatively recent discussion, certainly in mainstream thinking it found prominence among feminists in the 1970s.

There has been recognition of a 3rd (and 4th and 5th...)gender in various cultures for centuries as I have already stated. Polynesia, the Indian sub continent and South America being the most notable.

As for the difference between sex and gender the distinction of one being biological whilst the other is a social construct is not something I can attribute to Marx although I'm not that well read when it comes to old Karl so I may have missed it. I don't accept it's that difficult to see why multiple genders are possible even if we are accepting of the fact there are only 2 sexes (or 3 when you consider the 1.5% of people who are biologically intersex).

The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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That’s absolutely up to you what books to read, obviously. I just think you’re very uninformed about what ‘Marxists’ believe, and if you want to understand it’s probably a good idea to read about it. I read Mein Kampf and managed to avoid believing in the moral righteousness of a liebensraum for the German race so it IS possible to read a book without being won over by its ideas

Fair point. I can only imagine the contents of Mein Kampf are horrifying. Like reading the memoirs of a psychopath. You're obviously well read. I take my hat of to you for that. Your point is similar to what Aristotle said about being able to entertain an idea without accepting it. Morally, the idea of racial superiority is repugnant. Perhaps reading the chief proponent of that idea, gives an insight in to a mind that accepts the idea as not only being true, but morally justifiable. I am new here and I don't want to antagonise or get off side with anyone. After all, it's a football forum. I do enjoy debate though and I won't demand that anyone accept my point-of-view over their own. There are too many people doing that, and I strongly object to being forced to believe anything, particularly when not backed up by fact. If I'm guilty of that, please point it out. I will however hold to my beliefs unless I am convinced otherwise. I am absolutely open to being convinced otherwise if a better argument is presented.

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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Was that not Brexit?

Who knows? Remains to be seen. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a little Englander or Scotlander. Yes, there are many who are flag waving nationalists and many who have unpleasant views, no question. Surely though you can understand that there are plenty who voted for it for rational reasons. There were arguments for both remaining and leaving. I was personally torn. It's happened now. People have to work together rather than pointing the figure. We need unity not division.

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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What century are you posting from, if you don't mind me asking?

Fundamental truths are perennial. Inventing the idea that there are more than 2 genders does not make that idea true. The fact we are even having this conversation these days is mind boggling. The fact that most of you are going along with it is terrifying. What other new 'truths' will we be forced to believe in the coming years. God help us all.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dar...and-donate-3m/

£3m for a chance to make laws in UK. And people think we are a democracy?


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[Kato]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

Where are the human rights in taking things in the direction of forced treatment?

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[Kato]

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Fair point. I can only imagine the contents of Mein Kampf are horrifying. Like reading the memoirs of a psychopath. You're obviously well read. I take my hat of to you for that. Your point is similar to what Aristotle said about being able to entertain an idea without accepting it. Morally, the idea of racial superiority is repugnant. Perhaps reading the chief proponent of that idea, gives an insight in to a mind that accepts the idea as not only being true, but morally justifiable. I am new here and I don't want to antagonise or get off side with anyone. After all, it's a football forum. I do enjoy debate though and I won't demand that anyone accept my point-of-view over their own. There are too many people doing that, and I strongly object to being forced to believe anything, particularly when not backed up by fact. If I'm guilty of that, please point it out. I will however hold to my beliefs unless I am convinced otherwise. I am absolutely open to being convinced otherwise if a better argument is presented.

Mein Kempf is just Adolph snowflaking on about the Treaty of Versailles and whipping up misplaced grudges against peoples he took a personal dislike to. These days it would be lost in vast tonnage of Facebook slurry of a similar ilk.

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[Kato]

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Surely though you can understand that there are plenty who voted for it for rational reasons.

Sorry but I was completely unaware.



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[Glory Lurker]

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https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dar...and-donate-3m/

£3m for a chance to make laws in UK. And people think we are a democracy?


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If only Labour had delivered their promise to abolish it before they were seduced by the trough. And bowing to people with metal hats.

[One Day Soon]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

I think feminists of the second and third waves would mostly take great offence to the suggestion that their radicalism and their ideology is in some way derivative from either Marxism as a doctrine or from Marx, a man.

Feminists at every iteration seem perfectly capable of assessing the challenges faced by women by dint of their own experiences, their own political and social responses to their circumstances and with a fairly comprehensive set of left through to right wing political persuasions sitting behind that feminism. Dragging Marxism into this is an unlikely and I think unsustainable position.

[FromLeithtoNZ]

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Where are the human rights in taking things in the direction of forced treatment?

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No treatment should ever be forced on anyone against their will. Treatment for any issue should only ever be voluntary.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

Your last paragraph could have been written about gay men in the 70s. Using language like "childhood trauma " , "treatment " "delusion" and " healthier thinking " smacks of the horrors of conversion therapy.

[danhibees1875]

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Your last paragraph could have been written about gay men in the 70s. Using language like "childhood trauma " , "treatment " "delusion" and " healthier thinking " smacks of the horrors of conversion therapy.

I tend to stay away from these conversations as I'll admit my knowledge on gender/sex is limited, but that last paragraph is a shocker.

It's entirely compassion free and doesn't have any place in the 21st century.