Tories are still lying *******s

[lapsedhibee]

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And now he resigns.

Good.

Government can now fully focus on dismantling the Standards Committee before it's Johnson's turn to be found guilty.

[Jack]

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Being picked on for being caught caught taking half a million quid of bribes.

Only half a million we know about.

[heretoday]

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I prefer to think that political leaning has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting Hibs.

You normally get into football running around a field as a kid thinking you're Steve Archibald, Gordon Smith or Martin Boyle. Any political views tend to be formed and shaped and crystallise much, much later.

Anyone who has formed an affinity with our club shouldn't feel like that has to be severed just because they've formed certain political views.

I think it should be a strength of ours that we accept and tolerate different world views.

But then again, I am a bit liberal.

I guess I am too but in reality I'm just trying to keep healthy and solvent, in common with the majority of the Hibs fans I suspect. I don't mind a bit of banter about politics but I follow football to get away from it ideally.

[lapsedhibee]

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Always. The. ****ing. Victim.

His resignation letter is completely cringeworthy. In a better state the police would be after him.

[cabbageandribs1875]

oh dear

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1...1taS0-1Fw&s=19

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[Crunchie]

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Let's get some reasoned debate going then.

I'm genuinely curious - are you comfortable with how the Conservative party have dealt with this issue? If so, I'm honestly interested to understand why? I have my own opinion of course but I honestly want to hear from someone who appears to be from the the other side.

I wasn't comfortable with it no, but it didn't want to make me spit out bile and abuse on a forum, mind you he does it on a daily basis against Conservative MP'S and voters and gets away with it.

I could give you a decent discussion in person as to my reason for voting Conservative, but I'll not be putting it down here again.
I've voted Labour, SNP and now Conservative during my lifetime all for various reasons, not ONCE agreeing with every policy/decision they had/made when they were in power.

No sensible person could ever agree 100% with every policy their party has......oh wait a minute.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I wasn't comfortable with it no, but it didn't want to make me spit out bile and abuse on a forum, mind you he does it on a daily basis against Conservative MP'S and voters and gets away with it.

I could give you a decent discussion in person as to my reason for voting Conservative, but I'll not be putting it down here again.
I've voted Labour, SNP and now Conservative during my lifetime all for various reasons, not ONCE agreeing with every policy/decision they had/made when they were in power.

No sensible person could ever agree 100% with every policy their party has......oh wait a minute.

I like you have voted for various party's during my life, but this current government are by far the most corrupt, and they dont even try and hide it.

Calling them out at every point seems ok to me, even for those who won't ever vote for them.

[stokesmessiah]

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I wasn't comfortable with it no, but it didn't want to make me spit out bile and abuse on a forum, mind you he does it on a daily basis against Conservative MP'S and voters and gets away with it.

I could give you a decent discussion in person as to my reason for voting Conservative, but I'll not be putting it down here again.
I've voted Labour, SNP and now Conservative during my lifetime all for various reasons, not ONCE agreeing with every policy/decision they had/made when they were in power.

No sensible person could ever agree 100% with every policy their party has......oh wait a minute.

I don’t think any sensible person would agree with every policy, I am an SNP supporter and I know I don’t agree with everything they put forward. However, and this is what I can’t wrap my head around, I agree (in general) with the ideology behind what the SNP stand for and think their values are reasonably aligned to mine. What I can’t understand is how any sensible person can vote Labour, SNP and Conservative in their lifetime when their values and ideologies come from such different places.

[Northernhibee]

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the sooner they do away with anonymity on the net the better.

Is Crunchie your first or last name?

[JimBHibees]

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oh dear

More authoritarian by the day. Don't think democracy in the UK has been in such peril as now imo

[Keith_M]

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Is Crunchie your first or last name?

He's a Rapper and that's his full name.


"Just cos I's a Tory you don''t get to dis me,
Hey Mother F****** I is a real Hi-bee!"

...drops mic'

[tmb1875]

Anybody who props up that Tory government is a ****bag. Never has been acceptable to vote conservative and it never will be. There are no valid reasons. How someone can think it’s ok to have starving and homeless children in this country in 2021 while the rich get richer is a disgrace. Tories and there supporters deserve every bit of abuse they get. Shame on them.


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[BroxburnHibee]

36 u-turns in 23 months.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Anybody who props up that Tory government is a ****bag. Never has been acceptable to vote conservative and it never will be. There are no valid reasons. How someone can think it’s ok to have starving and homeless children in this country in 2021 while the rich get richer is a disgrace. Tories and there supporters deserve every bit of abuse they get. Shame on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But but, they gave us foodbanks and said it was a good thing. 😉

[One Day Soon]

If you are interested in a blow by blow explanation of what happened here and the political implications then the lengthy account below is excellent. From a briefing service I subscribe to. Posted in two parts.


REMEMBER, REMEMBER … British politics is in disrepute this morning after a dire week in Westminster that saw a Conservative MP’s political career destroyed in a sleaze scandal, the prime minister humiliated in a tawdry attempt to get him off the hook, and a Labour MP handed a suspended sentence for threatening a woman with acid. It leaves the government and opposition facing as many as four by-elections in the next few months, where voters could effectively be taking part in referendums on politicians’ sleaze or criminality — and Downing Street’s faltering commitment to standards in public life. As Owen Paterson quits parliament in disgrace, the recriminations are well underway following a week that threatens lasting damage to No. 10’s reputation. Boris Johnson, Chief Whip Mark Spencer, Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Downing Street political team, Paterson and his Tory MP friends are all facing fireworks on Guy Fawkes Night.


Are the public watching? You better believe it. A YouGov poll for the Times — with the fieldwork done after the Paterson vote, on Wednesday evening and Thursday — sees the Tory lead shrink by 5 points to just 1. In full: CON 36 (-3) … LAB 35 (+2) … LIB DEM 8 (no change) GREEN 9 (-1) REF U.K. 5 (+2). H/t Patrick Maguire. That’s a lot of political capital spent on trying and failing to save a rule-breaking Tory MP from facing the consequences of his actions.


Regrets, they have a few: As the dust settles, it is clear that multiple senior members of the government have been guilty of remarkable lapses in judgment over the Paterson case. It was apparent straight after the standards report dropped that Paterson’s supporters were deploying an emotional rather than rational argument. There is of course huge sympathy for him across the Tory Party following the death of his wife last year. But as one senior government insider conceded to Playbook, whatever the arguments about the process of the investigation, it was obvious to anyone who read the evidence in the Standards Commissioner’s report that Paterson had breached paid advocacy rules. Despite coming to this internal view, Downing Street nonetheless set out to block his punishment and use the case to rewrite standards rules, something insiders now privately admit was a foolish political error.


The campaign: Soon after the standards report landed, Paterson and his circle began a “sustained” campaign via various Tory WhatsApp groups. Paterson and his pals spent days “literally flooding” the groups “multiple times a day,” sometimes with links to articles and comment pieces, making the case for his defense, a senior Tory MP who abstained on Wednesday’s vote says. Some MPs felt they should support Paterson out of solidarity. Others were deeply uneasy. Playbook is told there was a divide between a group older Brexiteer MPs who have known Paterson for years, and newer intakes who considered them completely out of touch with reality.


The brains trust: By Monday morning, word was quickly going round that an official plot was being concocted to get Paterson off. We are told by multiple sources that it was devised following meetings between Paterson and his friends in the Brexiteer “Spartan” group of MPs, with Mark Spencer, Jacob Rees-Mogg and advisers in the Downing Street political team. The idea was that No. 10 would back an amendment blocking Paterson’s 30-day Commons suspension and establishing a new committee led by Tory grandee John Whittingdale to rewrite standards rules. A senior member of the government tells us that Spencer and Rees-Mogg were the ministers driving the proposal, which was presented to the PM, who then gave it his blessing. On Tuesday night, Johnson attended a Telegraph dinner at the Garrick with the journalist Charles Moore, a friend and vocal supporter of Paterson. A Tory MP says “the whips were quite explicit in making it known to colleagues that the prime minister himself personally will be in the voting lobby and that should be indication enough.”


The plan backfired: The government won Wednesday’s vote with a far smaller majority than expected, with the Tory rebellion (including principled abstentions) totaling around 50. Within minutes, the realization dawned on No. 10 that its plan had a giant and somehow unforeseen flaw. Labour and the other opposition parties immediately boycotted the new Whittingdale committee, putting Downing Street in the untenable situation of having to set up a Tory-only sham to rewrite the rules in their favor. From that moment, Johnson knew the game was up. Wednesday night’s papers were a disaster for No. 10, and Spencer called Paterson at 10 a.m. on Thursday morning to tell him the government was U-turning, the Telegraph’s Chris Hope and Tony Diver report. Paterson then called Johnson to announce his resignation from parliament. There is speculation Johnson discussed a peerage with Paterson during that call. We are told that is emphatically untrue.


The blame game: Tory MPs and senior ministers — many of whom had not just been ordered to vote on a three-line whip for the amateurish stitch-up attempt, but defended it on broadcast — privately expressed their fury. Thursday saw the Conservative Party resemble a circular firing squad as MPs bemoaned the lack of judgment that left them in this position. We'll take you through who is being blamed …


Boris Johnson: The anger leads to the very top. Above all else, Tory MPs are livid that the PM marched them up the hill of voting for an indefensible and immensely publicly unpopular measure, only to then march them back down again and U-turn after the damage was done. More than one Tory MP yesterday complained to us about the number of times this keeps happening under Johnson, whether on Marcus Rashford’s free school meals or Matt Hancock’s corona rule-breaking. Some allies of the PM stress he had been away in Rome for the G20 and then up in Glasgow for the CO26 summit, so had more important priorities than the intricacies of the Spencer/Rees-Mogg wheeze. Some say he had his eye off the ball. Other Tories think it is inexcusable for a prime minister to even consider using his parliamentary majority to abuse the standards process, and that he should have shot it down immediately.


Back to basics: The Mail goes directly for Johnson, with six pages on the Paterson affair that lead with senior Tories questioning the PM’s judgment. A senior minister tells Jason Groves and Harriet Line: “This was completely avoidable. The problem with Boris is he packs his Cabinet with second-rate people, meaning there is no one to tell him he should take a different course. It all just looks like we’re back to the 1990s — MPs getting together to support their friends.”


Mark Spencer: The majority of Tory MPs’ rage is however reserved for the chief whip, who is widely seen as the ringleader of the plot. Multiple Tory MPs told us yesterday that Spencer had committed an unforgivable error of judgment by putting the interests of one unrepentant rule-breaking MP over the prime minister and the wider Conservative Party. A Whitehall insider tells us that Spencer failed in his duties on two counts: realizing his plan was unviable, and predicting the scale of the Tory rebellion. In a sign of the incompetence of the whips operation, at one point they claimed some Labour MPs were going to back their amendment out of a genuine desire to reform the standards system. Zero Labour MPs voted for the amendment.





Next up: The Telegraph’s Ben Riley-Smith reports that the Electoral Commission handed its initial findings on the Downing Street flat refurbishment row to Conservative Party chiefs. It will give its judgment on whether Johnson broke spending rules after the party has had a chance to respond — so we could get news on that quite soon.

[One Day Soon]

Farmer drama: The FT quotes an MP warning “people are apoplectic with the chief.” A senior Tory MP tells Guido’s Christian Calgie the row has “blown up” Spencer’s credibility, suggesting his whipping operation has been undermined as potential rebels now know they can force a U-turn and keep their jobs. A Tory MP tells the Guardian’s Aubrey Allegretti: “I have never heard ministers go through the lobby saying out loud ‘this is absolute madness.’ The chief whip needs to go for this.” An MP tells the Telegraph’s Chris Hope and Tony Diver: “The chief’s entire authority has been absolutely machine-gunned … he has just lost all authority in the parliamentary party.” An MP tells us: “This is where you would want your chief whip at these kind of moments to go eyeball to eyeball with the prime minister and say, ‘sorry, that plan ain’t gonna fly.'”


Marked man: There is plenty of Spencer-knocking copy doing the rounds today. ITV’s Robert Peston has insider details of the chief’s call with Whittingdale, offering him the job to chair the new sham committee. Peston reports Whittingdale had assumed Spencer had secured the opposition parties’ consent for the plan. Disastrously, he had not. The FT’s George Parker, Laura Hughes and Seb Payne reveal possible Tory rebels were told “they would lose funding for their constituency” if they voted against the amendment. A Tory veteran tells Jim Pickard: “Any MP who believed this deserves to have funding removed for being a thick gullible tw*t.” Labour’s Anneliese Dodds blasts: “Threatening to hold money back from voters and their communities, all to protect a Tory MP who broke the rules. If true this marks a new low for Johnson’s scandal-ridden Conservatives.”


Is Spencer’s position under threat? Downing Street last night said they would stand by their beleaguered chief whip. Others in the Tory Party wonder if his days in the job are numbered. Last night a “friend” of Spencer told Chris Hope: “He does not regret for one second circling the wagons around a colleague who is in trouble. He would do the same with any other colleague.” What is it with senior Tories and unrepentant doubling-down statements this week?


Jacob Rees-Mogg: Spencer is the one getting most of the grief today, though we are told Rees-Mogg was also instrumental in drawing up the botched plot and advising the PM to go with it. The Sun’s Harry Cole says Rees-Mogg assured Johnson the plan was watertight. One younger Tory MP told us that Spencer and Rees-Mogg are insular characters who spend all their time with other Conservative MPs similar to themselves, so have “no political judgment, no understanding of voters” and no understanding of what Tory MPs “outside their weird cabal” think.


No. 10 political team: Also heavily involved in the scheme to get Paterson off were SpAds in the Downing Street political unit, who worked with Spencer and Rees-Mogg on the plans for the amendment and the Whittingdale committee. The Sun’s Harry Cole reports No. 10 aides were divided on what to do, with the political team believing Johnson could get away with it, but Chief of Staff Dan Rosenfield and the press team advising him against. In their write-through, the Times‘ six-strong team of Steve Swinford, Oli Wright, Henry Zeffman, Eleni Courea and George Grylls quote a government source saying Johnson had asked aides on Thursday morning how he had been put in the position. “He’s pretty p*ssed off,” they said. The Mail’s front page asks: “Is anyone in charge at No. 10?”


The Spartans: There is a lot of criticism this morning for the group of Paterson’s friends who lobbied Spencer and No. 10 into trying to help their man. We are told Tory Brexiteers David Davis and Iain Duncan Smith spent days putting extreme pressure on colleagues to support Paterson. Some senior Tories feel these veteran MPs would have done their friend a better service if they’d advised him to keep his head down, accept his punishment quietly, then see off any attempt to force a by-election and carry on as an MP. Instead, they allowed Paterson to run away with the feeling that he was the victim of some great injustice — which didn’t stand up to scrutiny and ended up finishing his political career. More than one MP told us the Spartans failed in their “duty of care” for Paterson.


Class war: The Spartans’ macho behavior has also upset a lot of newer intake MPs, several of whom detect a whiff of condescension. “The toffs putting pressure on the oiks,” was how one MP characterized it to us, while a new MP said some Paterson supporters had been badmouthing Tory MPs on the standards committee, “saying they’re first-term MPs who don’t know what they were doing, suggesting they were bamboozled by Chris Bryant and the commissioner.” One MP tells Esther: “Boris has been able to rely on that 2019 lot very heavily as his main phalanx of support — his people, the ones he brought in. No. 10 need to be very, very careful that they don’t p*ss off too many of them and lose the goodwill.”


Owen Paterson himself: The sympathy many Tories had for Paterson has well and truly dried up. There was already disquiet bubbling away at one man deeming himself important enough to ask his colleagues to trash their reputations to defend him, especially when he was bang to rights. The final straw was the ill-advised interview Paterson gave to Sky’s Sam Coates on Wednesday night after the government won the vote, in which he boasted he “wouldn’t hesitate to do it again tomorrow, absolutely no question.” Coates yesterday reported Johnson was deeply unimpressed by the interview. A government source says the same in the Times: “It went down very badly in No. 10. They were expecting some contrition from Owen. Instead he came out all guns blazing.”


By-election klaxon: The BBC website leads on an intriguing tale this morning that “Labour, the Lib Dems and the Green Party are discussing standing aside and backing an independent ‘anti-sleaze’ candidate” in the by-election that will take place in North Shropshire. It’s fair to say this would be a big development if true. However, the FT’s Seb Payne reported late last night that it won’t happen, with senior Labour insiders pouring cold water on the idea. We are also steered away from the likelihood Labour wouldn’t stand. And a Lib Dem source adds: “The technicalities of having an independent candidate opposition parties get behind are frankly a complete nightmare. The Liberal Democrats are the anti-sleaze party wherever we stand.” Still one to watch.


Four by-elections coming up? It’s going to be a busy time in Tory, Labour and Lib Dem HQs. There will be a by-election in Old Bexley and Sidcup following the death of Tory MP James Brokenshire, with polling day expected early December. There will be another in North Shropshire following the Paterson resignation — the question is whether the Tories will try to get it out of the way quickly or go long? There will be an uncontested by-election in Southend West following the killing of David Amess. And there may well be a by-election in a few months time in Leicester East following the sentencing of the now expelled Labour MP Claudia Webbe yesterday. That all depends on Webbe’s appeal and a subsequent recall petition, though it could happen sooner if Webbe resigns.


What happens next? The government has said it will hold another vote on updating the standards system next week, but without any link to the Paterson case. The Mirror’s Pippa Crerar says the hope for cross-party consensus is doomed already, with a Labour source telling her: “It’s laughable. They didn’t want to listen to anyone, now they have totally f***ed it up they suddenly need talks.” Meanwhile the Lib Dems have an emergency SO24 debate in the diary for Monday afternoon.


Kwasi-autonomous: Deputy Labour leader Angela Rayner has written to the Prime Minister’s Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests Christopher Geidt accusing Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng of bullying Standards Commissioner Kathryn Stone. Kwarteng had questioned Stone’s position in an interview on Sky.

[cabbageandribs1875]

[cabbageandribs1875]

Johnson and every other Tory that voted for corruptness may think they're off the hook now with the crooked one resigning, they're not, they've proven without any doubt they are more than happy to break any rules.



elsewhere, Labour/Greens and lib dems met to discuss letting an independent anti-sleaze candidate to get the vote in the crooked ones constituency, unfortunately Labour have decided they will stand

[lapsedhibee]

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Farmer drama: The FT quotes an MP warning “people are apoplectic with the chief.” A senior Tory MP tells Guido’s Christian Calgie the row has “blown up” Spencer’s credibility, suggesting his whipping operation has been undermined as potential rebels now know they can force a U-turn and keep their jobs. A Tory MP tells the Guardian’s Aubrey Allegretti: “I have never heard ministers go through the lobby saying out loud ‘this is absolute madness.’ The chief whip needs to go for this.” An MP tells the Telegraph’s Chris Hope and Tony Diver: “The chief’s entire authority has been absolutely machine-gunned … he has just lost all authority in the parliamentary party.” An MP tells us: “This is where you would want your chief whip at these kind of moments to go eyeball to eyeball with the prime minister and say, ‘sorry, that plan ain’t gonna fly.'”


Marked man: There is plenty of Spencer-knocking copy doing the rounds today. ITV’s Robert Peston has insider details of the chief’s call with Whittingdale, offering him the job to chair the new sham committee. Peston reports Whittingdale had assumed Spencer had secured the opposition parties’ consent for the plan. Disastrously, he had not. The FT’s George Parker, Laura Hughes and Seb Payne reveal possible Tory rebels were told “they would lose funding for their constituency” if they voted against the amendment. A Tory veteran tells Jim Pickard: “Any MP who believed this deserves to have funding removed for being a thick gullible tw*t.” Labour’s Anneliese Dodds blasts: “Threatening to hold money back from voters and their communities, all to protect a Tory MP who broke the rules. If true this marks a new low for Johnson’s scandal-ridden Conservatives.”


Is Spencer’s position under threat? Downing Street last night said they would stand by their beleaguered chief whip. Others in the Tory Party wonder if his days in the job are numbered. Last night a “friend” of Spencer told Chris Hope: “He does not regret for one second circling the wagons around a colleague who is in trouble. He would do the same with any other colleague.” What is it with senior Tories and unrepentant doubling-down statements this week?


Jacob Rees-Mogg: Spencer is the one getting most of the grief today, though we are told Rees-Mogg was also instrumental in drawing up the botched plot and advising the PM to go with it. The Sun’s Harry Cole says Rees-Mogg assured Johnson the plan was watertight. One younger Tory MP told us that Spencer and Rees-Mogg are insular characters who spend all their time with other Conservative MPs similar to themselves, so have “no political judgment, no understanding of voters” and no understanding of what Tory MPs “outside their weird cabal” think.


No. 10 political team: Also heavily involved in the scheme to get Paterson off were SpAds in the Downing Street political unit, who worked with Spencer and Rees-Mogg on the plans for the amendment and the Whittingdale committee. The Sun’s Harry Cole reports No. 10 aides were divided on what to do, with the political team believing Johnson could get away with it, but Chief of Staff Dan Rosenfield and the press team advising him against. In their write-through, the Times‘ six-strong team of Steve Swinford, Oli Wright, Henry Zeffman, Eleni Courea and George Grylls quote a government source saying Johnson had asked aides on Thursday morning how he had been put in the position. “He’s pretty p*ssed off,” they said. The Mail’s front page asks: “Is anyone in charge at No. 10?”


The Spartans: There is a lot of criticism this morning for the group of Paterson’s friends who lobbied Spencer and No. 10 into trying to help their man. We are told Tory Brexiteers David Davis and Iain Duncan Smith spent days putting extreme pressure on colleagues to support Paterson. Some senior Tories feel these veteran MPs would have done their friend a better service if they’d advised him to keep his head down, accept his punishment quietly, then see off any attempt to force a by-election and carry on as an MP. Instead, they allowed Paterson to run away with the feeling that he was the victim of some great injustice — which didn’t stand up to scrutiny and ended up finishing his political career. More than one MP told us the Spartans failed in their “duty of care” for Paterson.


Class war: The Spartans’ macho behavior has also upset a lot of newer intake MPs, several of whom detect a whiff of condescension. “The toffs putting pressure on the oiks,” was how one MP characterized it to us, while a new MP said some Paterson supporters had been badmouthing Tory MPs on the standards committee, “saying they’re first-term MPs who don’t know what they were doing, suggesting they were bamboozled by Chris Bryant and the commissioner.” One MP tells Esther: “Boris has been able to rely on that 2019 lot very heavily as his main phalanx of support — his people, the ones he brought in. No. 10 need to be very, very careful that they don’t p*ss off too many of them and lose the goodwill.”


Owen Paterson himself: The sympathy many Tories had for Paterson has well and truly dried up. There was already disquiet bubbling away at one man deeming himself important enough to ask his colleagues to trash their reputations to defend him, especially when he was bang to rights. The final straw was the ill-advised interview Paterson gave to Sky’s Sam Coates on Wednesday night after the government won the vote, in which he boasted he “wouldn’t hesitate to do it again tomorrow, absolutely no question.” Coates yesterday reported Johnson was deeply unimpressed by the interview. A government source says the same in the Times: “It went down very badly in No. 10. They were expecting some contrition from Owen. Instead he came out all guns blazing.”


By-election klaxon: The BBC website leads on an intriguing tale this morning that “Labour, the Lib Dems and the Green Party are discussing standing aside and backing an independent ‘anti-sleaze’ candidate” in the by-election that will take place in North Shropshire. It’s fair to say this would be a big development if true. However, the FT’s Seb Payne reported late last night that it won’t happen, with senior Labour insiders pouring cold water on the idea. We are also steered away from the likelihood Labour wouldn’t stand. And a Lib Dem source adds: “The technicalities of having an independent candidate opposition parties get behind are frankly a complete nightmare. The Liberal Democrats are the anti-sleaze party wherever we stand.” Still one to watch.


Four by-elections coming up? It’s going to be a busy time in Tory, Labour and Lib Dem HQs. There will be a by-election in Old Bexley and Sidcup following the death of Tory MP James Brokenshire, with polling day expected early December. There will be another in North Shropshire following the Paterson resignation — the question is whether the Tories will try to get it out of the way quickly or go long? There will be an uncontested by-election in Southend West following the killing of David Amess. And there may well be a by-election in a few months time in Leicester East following the sentencing of the now expelled Labour MP Claudia Webbe yesterday. That all depends on Webbe’s appeal and a subsequent recall petition, though it could happen sooner if Webbe resigns.


What happens next? The government has said it will hold another vote on updating the standards system next week, but without any link to the Paterson case. The Mirror’s Pippa Crerar says the hope for cross-party consensus is doomed already, with a Labour source telling her: “It’s laughable. They didn’t want to listen to anyone, now they have totally f***ed it up they suddenly need talks.” Meanwhile the Lib Dems have an emergency SO24 debate in the diary for Monday afternoon.


Kwasi-autonomous: Deputy Labour leader Angela Rayner has written to the Prime Minister’s Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests Christopher Geidt accusing Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng of bullying Standards Commissioner Kathryn Stone. Kwarteng had questioned Stone’s position in an interview on Sky.

Lots of good detail in there though, as a pet peeve, good journalism used to be proofread before it was published.
the Times‘ six-strong team of Steve Swinford, Oli Wright, Henry Zeffman, Eleni Courea and George Gryll

No surprise that Rees-Mogg was up to his neck in it.

[WhileTheChief..]

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I'm not sticking up for anyone, his angry posts are embarrassing and insulting to any reasoned debate. If his views were to the right you'd be on him like a pack of wolves like you tend to do on here, how he gets away with the constant abuse directed at tories and those who vote tory is beyond me.

It's disgusting the way that anyone who votes Conservative is treated on this board.

Doubt a thread titled 'Nationalists are lying *******' would have been allowed for so long.

There's barely any debate to be had on any subject. Offer any view that is remotely Conservative and you're shot down in flames, not in an argument or debate kinda way, just name calling and online abuse.

Seems like you're fine if you read The National or Guardian but you're the Devil incarnate if you read anything else!

[lapsedhibee]

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Doubt a thread titled 'Nationalists are lying *******' would have been allowed for so long.

Nothing to stop you putting that to the test! Maybe wouldn't get to the number of pages that this one has, but if it'd make Conservative voters feel less victimised, I'm all for it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

more sleaze and corruptness......i blame the SNP for this corruptness

EXCLUSIVE: Suffolk at centre of multi million alleged cover-up of government PPE scandal – East Anglia Bylines

In an exclusive report, East Anglia Bylines can reveal that Suffolk is at the centre of a huge alleged government cover-up of the covid PPE scandal. As well as wasting billions of pounds on buying unwanted or unusable material, it has cost the taxpayers of this country one million pounds a day in storage.

[Kato]

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debate kinda way, just name calling and online abuse.

There is plenty room and content on here debate among the name calling.

You yourself are fond of sticking up for the Rangers fans songs which are full of bile and can see past them to debate the merits or otherwise of them being sung. "It's only songs."

Can't you see past the "name calling " on this thread and go to the content and discuss that? Is it only you who determines what is disgusting and what we should let slide?

If every post here were just twitteresque one line insults fair enough, but that isn't the case.

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[Northernhibee]

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It's disgusting the way that anyone who votes Conservative is treated on this board.

Doubt a thread titled 'Nationalists are lying *******' would have been allowed for so long.

There's barely any debate to be had on any subject. Offer any view that is remotely Conservative and you're shot down in flames, not in an argument or debate kinda way, just name calling and online abuse.

Seems like you're fine if you read The National or Guardian but you're the Devil incarnate if you read anything else!

It's difficult to debate self pitying victimhood rather than someone actually defending the actions and morals of the Conservative Party.

The problem is that no decent person can defend taking £20 a week away from the very poorest, hammering lower earners with NI rises whilst banks get tax cuts, mile long foodbank queues, constant cronyism, corruption and sleaze, constant breaking of ministerial code or just Brexit in its entirety.

I'd love for someone to actually defend that for a debate, as it is nobody does.

[lord bunberry]

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Is Crunchie your first or last name?

[WhileTheChief..]

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There is plenty room and content on here debate among the name calling.

You yourself are fond of sticking up for the Rangers fans songs which are full of bile and can see past them to debate the merits or otherwise of them being sung. "It's only songs."

Can't you see past the "name calling " on this thread and go to the content and discuss that? Is it only you who determines what is disgusting and what we should let slide?

If every post here were just twitteresque one line insults fair enough, but that isn't the case.

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Not sure what this has to do with the point I made about Conservatives or this thread?

[Kato]

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Not sure what this has to do with the point I made about Conservatives or this thread?

Is it not simple. You're not bothered about Rangers fans insulting, disgusting names for Catholics but are up in arms about people on here using insulting, disgusting names for Conservatives.



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[WhileTheChief..]

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It's difficult to debate self pitying victimhood rather than someone actually defending the actions and morals of the Conservative Party.

The problem is that no decent person can defend taking £20 a week away from the very poorest, hammering lower earners with NI rises whilst banks get tax cuts, mile long foodbank queues, constant cronyism, corruption and sleaze, constant breaking of ministerial code or just Brexit in its entirety.

I'd love for someone to actually defend that for a debate, as it is nobody does.

I doubt many Conservative voters vote the way they did because of these issues. I know I didn't.

It's just that these issues aren't the priority for the majority of people in the country.

Mile long foodbank queues?? Really? This is sort of stuff I just don't get. It's like Corbyn describing a country that hardly anyone recognised.

Maybe I'm extremely fortunate but I've never come across this and don't know anyone that knows anyone that is affected like this. ( I earn an average wage BTW and come from a working class family so I'm not some well off Tory B!)

Now we've got the Conservatives talking about levelling up across the country. I'd have thought everyone on the Left would see that as a positive thing. Get poorer people in the country earning more and giving them more opportunites in life. That's got to be a good thing no?

It's like the Left want to keep people in perpetual poverty instead of trying to lift them out of it.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Is it not simple. You're not bothered about Rangers fans insulting, disgusting names for Catholics but are up in arms about people on here using insulting, disgusting names for Conservatives.



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Perfectly chilled here, not up in arms about anything.

You should maybe just pop me on ignore?