Driving Pet Peeves

[Hibrandenburg]

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So you'll agree that if the car driving at 45mph in the inside lane speeds up to a sensible speed then things will improve for everyone.

Yes, but I also agree that people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities, road, weather and traffic conditions.

Someone travelling at 45mph on a dual carriageway is less likely to cause congestion than someone travelling at 58mph.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Yes, but I also agree that people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities, road, weather and traffic conditions.

Someone travelling at 45mph on a dual carriageway is less likely to cause congestion than someone travelling at 58mph.

Exactly this. 👍

[LaMotta]

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Or make it even harder for everyone else to get past?

No that is completely illogical. If they speed up to a sensible speed for the inside lane, other cars driving at this speed wont have any need to get past and pull into the outside lane to overtake.

[LaMotta]

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I asked a simple question, because you would be hard pushed to find any lorries driving within the speed limit for 15ton trucks.

Well, whatever speed they are going at, it is considerably slower than most cars in the outside lane.

[LaMotta]

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Yes, but I also agree that people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities, road, weather and traffic conditions.

Someone travelling at 45mph on a dual carriageway is less likely to cause congestion than someone travelling at 58mph.

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Exactly this. ��

The original post from Dazzling Doidge was about driving too slowly for no reason, so weather and traffic conditions aren't of relevance here because they are good reasons. Your assertion that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities though is something I couldn't disagree more with.

Driving too slowly on motorway/ dual carriageway is widely acknowledged as being dangerous ( for a number of reasons) hence why police have ability to warn/fine/ prosecute those who do so for careless or inconsiderate driving. Anyone driving at 45mph for no reason certainly runs the risk of being pulled over by the police, and rightly so as their driving would fall below the standards expected of a competent driver.

[Moulin Yarns]

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The original post from Dazzling Doidge was about driving too slowly for no reason, so weather and traffic conditions aren't of relevance here because they are good reasons. Your assertion that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities though is something I couldn't disagree more with.

Driving too slowly on motorway/ dual carriageway is widely acknowledged as being dangerous ( for a number of reasons) hence why police have ability to warn/fine/ prosecute those who do so for careless or inconsiderate driving. Anyone driving at 45mph for no reason certainly runs the risk of being pulled over by the police, and rightly so as their driving would fall below the standards expected of a competent driver.

What if they are driving on the Glasgow Road, around Ratho? 😉

[Killiehibbie]

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The original post from Dazzling Doidge was about driving too slowly for no reason, so weather and traffic conditions aren't of relevance here because they are good reasons. Your assertion that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities though is something I couldn't disagree more with.

Driving too slowly on motorway/ dual carriageway is widely acknowledged as being dangerous ( for a number of reasons) hence why police have ability to warn/fine/ prosecute those who do so for careless or inconsiderate driving. Anyone driving at 45mph for no reason certainly runs the risk of being pulled over by the police, and rightly so as their driving would fall below the standards expected of a competent driver.

Is it ok for me to drive at 56mph on the 70 mph motorway?
Is optimum fuel consumption a good enough reason?

[LaMotta]

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What if they are driving on the Glasgow Road, around Ratho? ��

Haha well then they have more chance of being pulled for driving too fast

Obviously talking about a 70mph limit though (if it wasnt obvious I apologise )

[LaMotta]

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Is it ok for me to drive at 56mph on the 70 mph motorway?
Is optimum fuel consumption a good enough reason?

That depends how much you value your time over a few quid saved on fuel

[Keith_M]

People driving at low speeds on a dual carriageway or motorway can be overtaken in the outside lane.

That's fine if there's little traffic... but on a busy road, it means that two lanes are now merging into one, which has a knock on effect of slowing down the flow of traffic behind.

This effect is multiplied immensely when there are HGV's, etc trying to overtake, as they're often incapable of reaching the speed limit. This, apparently, is one of the causes of so-called 'phantom motorway tailbacks', where slow moving traffic and delays happen for no obvious reason.


(this is from one of my relatives that used to be in L&B Police, who also said it's policy to warn and/or fine motorists persisting at low speeds on the motorway for no good reason)

[Moulin Yarns]

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That depends how much you value your time over a few quid saved on fuel

Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

[Peevemor]

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Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

I don't bother pushing it during my 10 mile drive to work for exactly that reason. Overtaking can make a big difference though.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://learn.eartheasy.com/guides/f...cient-driving/

Speed versus fuel efficiency.

As an aside, what make and model of car was the one that was driving at 45mph on the dual carriageway?

It might well have been an electric vehicle and the driver was concerned about the range. I have passed electric cars on motorways that are cruising along about 50mph in the inside lane, not causing any problems.

[RyeSloan]

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Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

The point is that on a road that is not a dual carriageway and is the main artery then you can never do your hypothetical constant 60mph.

It’s clearly easier and safer and faster on the M9 stretch up to Perth than it is from the A9 onwards from there.

The A9 for the type of traffic it carries should, and needs to be, more than a single track road.

[Moulin Yarns]

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The point is that on a road that is not a dual carriageway and is the main artery then you can never do your hypothetical constant 60mph.

It’s clearly easier and safer and faster on the M9 stretch up to Perth than it is from the A9 onwards from there.

The A9 for the type of traffic it carries should, and needs to be, more than a single track road.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/a9-dualling-perth-to-inverness/

Fortunately for you, the SNP Scottish Government agrees that the A9 needs to be dual carriageway and work is underway north of Luncarty and other contracts are already awarded. 👍

[LaMotta]

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People driving at low speeds on a dual carriageway or motorway can be overtaken in the outside lane.

That's fine if there's little traffic... but on a busy road, it means that two lanes are now merging into one, which has a knock on effect of slowing down the flow of traffic behind.

This effect is multiplied immensely when there are HGV's, etc trying to overtake, as they're often incapable of reaching the speed limit. This, apparently, is one of the causes of so-called 'phantom motorway tailbacks', where slow moving traffic and delays happen for no obvious reason.


(this is from one of my relatives that used to be in L&B Police, who also said it's policy to warn and/or fine motorists persisting at low speeds on the motorway for no good reason)

An excellent explanation here

[LaMotta]

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Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

I've regularly had to drive across Scotland for work from various mtgs to other mtgs and I can assure you that even shaving 10 minutes off a journey can sometimes be vital and worth the effort. (Covid has put an end to much of this due to normalisation of online mtgs now)

So again, depends on how important time is to an individual.

[LaMotta]

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https://learn.eartheasy.com/guides/f...cient-driving/

Speed versus fuel efficiency.

As an aside, what make and model of car was the one that was driving at 45mph on the dual carriageway?

It might well have been an electric vehicle and the driver was concerned about the range. I have passed electric cars on motorways that are cruising along about 50mph in the inside lane, not causing any problems.

Considerate and careful driving trumps fuel efficiency

[Moulin Yarns]

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Considerate and careful driving trumps fuel efficiency

Both are not mutually exclusive though, which is why being aware of other road users, regardless of how they drive is better than getting angry because they are not going as fast as you.

[LaMotta]

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Both are not mutually exclusive though, which is why being aware of other road users, regardless of how they drive is better than getting angry because they are not going as fast as you.

People arent getting angry at the driver for not going as fast as them. People (including the police ) will get peeved at someone driving at 45mph in a 70 limit because its potentially dangerous and also inconsiderate. Being ( a little bit) angry at that is fine I think.

[Moulin Yarns]

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People arent getting angry at the driver for not going as fast as them. People (including the police ) will get peeved at someone driving at 45mph in a 70 limit because its potentially dangerous and also inconsiderate. Being ( a little bit) angry at that is fine I think.

And what about the scenario involving the electric vehicle that I have witnessed. Range anxiety on the motorway when the driver has to be driving carefully to ensure that they reach a charging point? Would you rather they drive in such a way that they will run out of charge and become a hazard?

[overdrive]

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And what about the scenario involving the electric vehicle that I have witnessed. Range anxiety on the motorway when the driver has to be driving carefully to ensure that they reach a charging point? Would you rather they drive in such a way that they will run out of charge and become a hazard?

They shouldn’t set out on the journey without enough charge, I would argue. That’s why I think the technology has to improve on electric cars before they become more mainstream.

[Moulin Yarns]

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They shouldn’t set out on the journey without enough charge, I would argue. That’s why I think the technology has to improve on electric cars before they become more mainstream.

That's pretty much what I would do, but you can rarely get the manufacturers claimed range with so many different variables. Unless you drive cautiously to maximise your range, a bit like a full tank of fuel will also take you further the more carefully you drive, again, the chance of getting the manufacturer claimed mileage is practically impossible. The distance between service areas on some motorways can be a fair distance.

Anyway, this has run its course, a driver doing 45mph on a dual carriageway has as much right to be there and other drivers should know how to avoid getting caught behind them. Driver awareness. Think ahead.

[lapsedhibee]

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(this is from one of my relatives that used to be in L&B Police, who also said it's policy to warn and/or fine motorists persisting at low speeds on the motorway for no good reason)

It would be good to know what L&B considered too low. 45? Or 30?

[LaMotta]

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It would be good to know what L&B considered too low. 45? Or 30?

That's a good question, I understand its up to Police interpretation of a situation. That said, a number of driving instructors online suggest that you should drive as close to the speed limit as possible in a 70 limit, and certainly no slower than 50.

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That's pretty much what I would do, but you can rarely get the manufacturers claimed range with so many different variables. Unless you drive cautiously to maximise your range, a bit like a full tank of fuel will also take you further the more carefully you drive, again, the chance of getting the manufacturer claimed mileage is practically impossible. The distance between service areas on some motorways can be a fair distance.

Anyway, this has run its course, a driver doing 45mph on a dual carriageway has as much right to be there and other drivers should know how to avoid getting caught behind them. Driver awareness. Think ahead.

Final point - it worries me a bit that you are still coming to this conclusion when driving at that speed in a 70 can be dangerous and could lead to a Police fine. I'm out now.

[Moulin Yarns]

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That's a good question, I understand its up to Police interpretation of a situation. That said, a number of driving instructors online suggest that you should drive as close to the speed limit as possible in a 70 limit, and certainly no slower than 50.



Final point - it worries me a bit that you are still coming to this conclusion when driving at that speed in a 70 can be dangerous and could lead to a Police fine. I'm out now.

Safer than a driver doing 45mph in a 30 zone. If other drivers are not aware of what is going on around them then they are as much of a problem

[speedy_gonzales]

Re acceptable driving speeds on roads. I sat my motorbike test 10 years after my car test. The motorbike test was much more intensive, and beside training you to pass the test, they trained you to stay alive.
My instructor, who was ex-Police, told me it was standard practice to drive between the posted limit and the one below if conditions allowed.
So, on a motorway, you'd be between 60 & 70. Dual carriageway the same, single carriageway 50-60, a posted 40 limit would be 30-40 and obviously below 30 for urban areas (putting 20's to one side).
I was taught, for my test, to exaggerate the acknowledgment of speed limit changes for the benefit of the DSA examiner. So big visual look at the speed roundels, then a marked increase or decrease of speed to demonstrate an awareness of the posted limit.
Re cars that seem to crawl at a very low speed relative to those around them, they may well have a valid reason but ignoring any perceived inconvenience to other road users, they're just inviting some pernickty traffic cop to give them a tug to ask them if they "know the speed limit".

[Moulin Yarns]

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That's a good question, I understand its up to Police interpretation of a situation. That said, a number of driving instructors online suggest that you should drive as close to the speed limit as possible in a 70 limit, and certainly no slower than 50.



Final point - it worries me a bit that you are still coming to this conclusion when driving at that speed in a 70 can be dangerous and could lead to a Police fine. I'm out now.

Final point - if someone is going at 45mph, there might be a reason, mechanical, physical or other reason.

If you, doing 70ish, don't notice the other driver, doing 45ish, and run into the rear of the car, who do you think would face prosecution?

[Peevemor]

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Re acceptable driving speeds on roads. I sat my motorbike test 10 years after my car test. The motorbike test was much more intensive, and beside training you to pass the test, they trained you to stay alive.
My instructor, who was ex-Police, told me it was standard practice to drive between the posted limit and the one below if conditions allowed.
So, on a motorway, you'd be between 60 & 70. Dual carriageway the same, single carriageway 50-60, a posted 40 limit would be 30-40 and obviously below 30 for urban areas (putting 20's to one side).
I was taught, for my test, to exaggerate the acknowledgment of speed limit changes for the benefit of the DSA examiner. So big visual look at the speed roundels, then a marked increase or decrease of speed to demonstrate an awareness of the posted limit.
Re cars that seem to crawl at a very low speed relative to those around them, they may well have a valid reason but ignoring any perceived inconvenience to other road users, they're just inviting some pernickty traffic cop to give them a tug to ask them if they "know the speed limit".

Standard practice? I generally drive at our round about the speed limit and it's rare that I overtake a motorbike.

[Keith_M]

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It would be good to know what L&B considered too low. 45? Or 30?

Sorry, I can't remember exactly what he said about that.


But this is apparently the advice given out:

"Many people are nervous when driving on motorways due to the volume of traffic and the high speeds. Such drivers may tend to drive a little slower than the maximum speed limit of 70 mph.

Anywhere between 50 mph and 70 mph is acceptable although any slower, you would yourself become a hazard and increase the potential of being involved in an accident or creating an accident for others.

If you do feel the need to drive excessively slow on a motorway, if possible find an alternative route that eliminates such high speed roads."

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/mini...-too-slow.html


(p.s. I added the bold highlights)