European super league

[EI255]

I don't get it. The Champions League hadn't become dull because of any Ukrainian or Greek teams involvements, its just a dated tournament. So I wonder how they think this new model will be any better, especially if its a closed shop.

How dull.

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[Caversham Green]

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I think an additional 5 teams a year are to be invited based on league positions?

I think this is a weakness in the plan that could be attacked by UEFA and the national leagues. Any club participating in the ESL would be deemed to have left their national association and would have to apply for reinstatement at the lowest level. How many clubs would accept an invitation under those terms?

[Andy74]

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I think this is a weakness in the plan that could be attacked by UEFA and the national leagues. Any club participating in the ESL would be deemed to have left their national association and would have to apply for reinstatement at the lowest level. How many clubs would accept an invitation under those terms?

Only if the associations are going to chuck them all out.

In the plans the clubs aren't leaving anything domestically - they are just going to be joining up for this league rather than the Champions League.

[Since90+2]

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Only if the associations are going to chuck them all out.

In the plans the clubs aren't leaving anything domestically - they are just going to be joining up for this league rather than the Champions League.

But they are guaranteed to be in this league every single season regardless of performance. That is the whole point of this.

Spurs could finish 10th and still be in the biggest revenue generating tournament in the world whilst the team who finishes 6th won't be. That is not what football is supposed to be about.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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This is a really good article, unfortunately behind a paywall: https://theathletic.com/2528673/2021...shared-article

"If nothing else, the weekend just gone has drawn the clearest of lines in the sand between those who like to limit the jeopardy in football and those who like the thrill of the chase.

There is no middle ground here.

You either live for a team like Bielsa’s turning over Manchester City with a man less and just over 20 per cent of the possession or you prefer the carve-up of billions through an invitational model. You either accept the lows which accentuate the highs or you choose a life without either. If you love the sport, you can learn to love 16 years of toil outside the Premier League — because there is barely a single Leeds supporter who would deny that these three years of Bielsa made that long, grim trek worthwhile. The misery of the journey helped make the Bielsa story what it is."

Bielsa also spoke well after the game:

“This should not surprise any of us,” Bielsa said, when pressed on the Super League later. “I think there are structures which should limit the excesses of the big teams. The (authorities) could have anticipated these excesses and avoided them. What happened was inevitable. It happens in all walks of life.

“Some teams are bigger than others but they should be conscious of the fact that we need each other. The real owners of clubs are the ones who love the badge. Without them, football will disappear. This is going to generate a huge polemic. Let’s see who talks up in defence of the fans. Any decision which attacks these people is staking the future (of the game).”

Sadly the horse has already bolted so UEFA, FIFA, SkySports etc. are going to struggle to shut the barn door. They could have stopped this years ago but by relentlessly pursuing money over everything else they have created this monster and there's no way back now IMHO.

The only way this could be headed off is by going nuclear and expelling the club's from all local leagues and banning players from international competitions, but that's never going to happen, FIFA don't want a world cup without Messi, Ronaldo, etc. Sadly the reality is that these 12 clubs could probably accept being banned from their national FA's because of the amount of money they are going to make from this league and the fans will still go to games, maybe not the local die hards, but that's not who the owners care about anyway.

What is likely to happen is that the champions League is reformed again to some sort of compromise where certain clubs are guaranteed qualification every season but there's more opportunity for others to qualify and those guaranteed clubs are given a bigger slice of the money. The club's get their money, UEFA gets its flagship competition which is still "open to all" and the fans will be expected to be grateful for what we are getting.

I fell in love with football watching the champions League in the mid 90s, the era of watching players like del piero, kluivert, Davids, ravanelli, etc. Despite being a bit of a Juventus fan I felt a bit happy seeing Dortmund winning in 1997 as it felt like a proper underdog story at the time.

Even the addition of runners up in 1997 felt like a great thing when you saw Newcastle United beating Barcelona (Figo and Rivaldo) with a hat trick from Tino Asprilla. Unfortunately that was the start of the rot, more and more clubs were added to ensure the biggest clubs qualified every year and leading ultimately to where we are now.

good article.

one of my favourite CL seasons was 94/95 when Van Gael’s incredible young Ajax team (average age early 20s, almost all raised through their academy) went all the way. Even beating a seemingly invincible AC Milan in the final. I was 12 years old and it seemed impossibly romantic.

it was only within a few years that the competition was almost unrecognisable

[Caversham Green]

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Only if the associations are going to chuck them all out.

In the plans the clubs aren't leaving anything domestically - they are just going to be joining up for this league rather than the Champions League.

The clubs don't want to leave but there has been talk of the associations chucking them out anyway. I agree it would have to include all participants including the as yet unnamed founder members. As an aside, why haven't the mystery three shown their hand yet?

[Pagan Hibernia]

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I don't get it. The Champions League hadn't become dull because of any Ukrainian or Greek teams involvements, its just a dated tournament. So I wonder how they think this new model will be any better, especially if its a closed shop.

How dull.

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the same 15 or 20 teams playing each other every Wednesday for eternity.

footballing hell.

[Ozyhibby]

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[Andy74]

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But they are guaranteed to be in this league every single season regardless of performance. That is the whole point of this.

Spurs could finish 10th and still be in the biggest revenue generating tournament in the world whilst the team who finishes 6th won't be. That is not what football is supposed to be about.

I'm not really arguing for it - just seeing I guess what the clubs are thinking here.

Football can still be about that in the domestic leagues. What this proposal is challenging really is whether there is still any relevance in the Champions League. The 'big' clubs all appear to be saying that no, they don't think it will be relevant in future and there would prefer to take European football in a different direction.

The UEFA proposals from 2024 are going some way toward this themselves in allocating places based on previous performance. A team finishing lower in the league could still qualify ahead of a team higher placed. The allocation of CL places, the qualifying criteria and the outlet to the Europa League have all been geared towards helping the same teams to stay in the tournaments year after year anyway.

Once you get away from the European Cup being an open tournament for the league winners you are then into different degrees of fixing it's make up.

The Real Madrid President is one of those saying the concept of the Champions League is dead. After that, clubs are entitled to set up whatever they want to play whoever they want - but they need to then see the consequences from the other associations they have already joined. That will be the crux of where it goes from here.

The EPL was itself a breakaway, the Champions League was a big deviation away from what it was. This sort of thing has been coming.

Looking at it from the construct of purely the teams being rewarded on the park with a place in a higher level tournament this seems wrong but who says that construct is still the right way to look at football at European level in the future? These teams clearly see that something needed to change for them.

I suspect that the nuclear option of chucking teams out of associations won't work for anyone and that a breakaway of some sort will happen with financial support being handed back down - or UEFA have to make changes to their proposals to get closer to the Super League construct.

[H18 SFR]

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Arsenal, it has to be Arsenal having second thoughts!

[AugustaHibs]

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Arsenal, it has to be Arsenal having second thoughts!

Chelsea or city. There’s no way Stan kroenke is against it now, he’s a parasite and doesn’t give a **** about the club

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Chelsea or city. There’s no way Stan kroenke is against it now, he’s a parasite and doesn’t give a **** about the club

and you think city’s owners have a conscience?

[AugustaHibs]

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and you think city’s owners have a conscience?

They don’t need the money. They’ve also built city with public perception in mind.

Added to the fact it’s well known that Chelsea and city were already initially hesitant and only signed up last minute after being worried about being left behind

[AliboyFC]

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Chelsea or city. There’s no way Stan kroenke is against it now, he’s a parasite and doesn’t give a **** about the club

Aye i was thinking city tbh.

[AugustaHibs]

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Aye i was thinking city tbh.

Yup. Chelsea have zero debt and city’s is next to nothing too. They aren’t desperate for the cash

[MWHIBBIES]

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Arsenal, it has to be Arsenal having second thoughts!

Na. Stan Kronke is tight with Perez. They are two of the leaders in the group.

[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.theguardian.com/football...mpression=true


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[Just_Jimmy]

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Well if you don't live in Manchester, or have family ties from there,why are you not supporting your local team? The reason these clubs have got so powerful is because people follow them rather than their local club.

I live in Manchester and I watch United live when I can, most of my mates down here support United and a few city, I've been to both regularly and I enjoy it.

However when anyone asks me who I support the answer is always and will always be Hibs.



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[jacomo]

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I don't get it. The Champions League hadn't become dull because of any Ukrainian or Greek teams involvements, its just a dated tournament. So I wonder how they think this new model will be any better, especially if its a closed shop.

How dull.

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Imo it’s dull because UEFA got greedy and bowed to pressure from the same ****bag clubs who now want to break away.

I’d love to see a return to the old European Cup format - home and away knock out tournament. Open to winners of national league competitions only.

[theonlywayisup]

Think about it, Nottingham Forrest have won the European Cup twice. That is more than Chelsea, Man City, Tottenham and Arsenal combined...

Nottingham Forest FC 💙 on Twitter: "Football belongs to everybody. Brian Howard Clough. Double European Cup winner. 🔴🌳 #NFFC https://t.co/SwI4bDIvYr" / Twitter

[jacomo]

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Na. Stan Kronke is tight with Perez. They are two of the leaders in the group.

I think you’re probably right there.

Kroenke seems to treat Arsenal solely as a cash generating machine. I doubt he has any qualms at all about destroying the traditions of the sport he has invested in.

[jacomo]

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I'm not really arguing for it - just seeing I guess what the clubs are thinking here.

Football can still be about that in the domestic leagues. What this proposal is challenging really is whether there is still any relevance in the Champions League. The 'big' clubs all appear to be saying that no, they don't think it will be relevant in future and there would prefer to take European football in a different direction.

The UEFA proposals from 2024 are going some way toward this themselves in allocating places based on previous performance. A team finishing lower in the league could still qualify ahead of a team higher placed. The allocation of CL places, the qualifying criteria and the outlet to the Europa League have all been geared towards helping the same teams to stay in the tournaments year after year anyway.

Once you get away from the European Cup being an open tournament for the league winners you are then into different degrees of fixing it's make up.

The Real Madrid President is one of those saying the concept of the Champions League is dead. After that, clubs are entitled to set up whatever they want to play whoever they want - but they need to then see the consequences from the other associations they have already joined. That will be the crux of where it goes from here.

The EPL was itself a breakaway, the Champions League was a big deviation away from what it was. This sort of thing has been coming.

Looking at it from the construct of purely the teams being rewarded on the park with a place in a higher level tournament this seems wrong but who says that construct is still the right way to look at football at European level in the future? These teams clearly see that something needed to change for them.

I suspect that the nuclear option of chucking teams out of associations won't work for anyone and that a breakaway of some sort will happen with financial support being handed back down - or UEFA have to make changes to their proposals to get closer to the Super League construct.

Just shows that appeasement doesn’t work.

UEFA undoubtedly got greedy and is a deeply flawed organisation, but you can’t keep brushing off this new proposal as if it’s not a massive break from the past.

The aim is to make this new Super League the pre-eminent club football tournament in Europe, with everything else - national leagues included - demoted to secondary importance.

Wake up and smell the coffee, as the execs pushing this would no doubt say.

[hibsbollah]

Why has nothing been said about media backers? Who s going to broadcast these games? Anyone expecting Amazon or YouTube to walk in and announce some sort of tie up in the next few days? That’s where the money will end up coming from.

[Peevemor]

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Imo it’s dull because UEFA got greedy and bowed to pressure from the same ****bag clubs who now want to break away.

I’d love to see a return to the old European Cup format - home and away knock out tournament. Open to winners of national league competitions only.

Even the original CL format worked well IMO, with the quarter & semi finals being replaced by 2 groups of 4, the winner of each qualifying for the final.

For me it was a good happy medium.

[WeeRussell]

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Why has nothing been said about media backers? Who s going to broadcast these games? Anyone expecting Amazon or YouTube to walk in and announce some sort of tie up in the next few days? That’s where the money will end up coming from.

You would have thought someone is ready lined-up when they’ve made an announcement... but then again, the way all this has been handled I’ve no idea what to think anymore.

[hibsbollah]

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You would have thought someone is ready lined-up when they’ve made an announcement... but then again, the way all this has been handled I’ve no idea what to think anymore.

I’m just looking forward to uefa kicking out Chelsea Man City and Real out of the chump ions league semis and awarding the trophy to PSG, that upstanding example of old traditional football values

[jacomo]

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Why has nothing been said about media backers? Who s going to broadcast these games? Anyone expecting Amazon or YouTube to walk in and announce some sort of tie up in the next few days? That’s where the money will end up coming from.

Maybe they intend to build their own platform and sell direct to fans?

[jacomo]

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I’m just looking forward to uefa kicking out Chelsea Man City and Real out of the chump ions league semis and awarding the trophy to PSG, that upstanding example of old traditional football values

Who will then announce their intention to join the super league the day after lifting the CL trophy.

[hibsbollah]

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Who will then announce their intention to join the super league the day after lifting the CL trophy.

There’s something mad but appropriate about that, I can see it happening!

[Key West]

Interesting that greed is being mentioned when a lot of clubs put out weakened teams in the cup competitions.