Well Done Jack Ross

[Bobby's Cinema]

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It’s not nuts at all.

We won yesterday, but other than that there was nothing much to enjoy about the game. The first half was eye bleeding. That’s been a common theme this season evidenced by the fact this discussion comes up nearly every week.

This season we’ve won what, 3 or 4 home games? If the football is only enjoyable when winning and you’re also not winning the majority of the time (which isn’t a criticism btw, I don’t expect us to) then that’s a problem. You can’t have the fans being bored every week with the only positive being winning sometimes, especially at home.

The problem with that Calum is there is absolutely no context to what you are saying.
When the manager came in we were floundering in the bottom six - as were a certain side that are now playing championship football.

Meanwhile we have rocketed to 3rd place our highest league position we can reasonably expect to finish (where we have done so once since 2000/01),
We have made every semi final for the last few years, as I've said to me our signing policy is as clear and obvious with as much direction as I have ever seen,

But you are bored watching a winning team with for me a clear direction and would trade it for a team that wins less to see some good but ultimately losing football. So the manager is actually doing too well for you. Doesn't seem very sensible given context. I've seen this Hibs team play some great football and score some great goals in places this season.

Not telling anyone how to behave but for me there is is generally more negativity and people jumping on the players back at half time in games than there should be.

[Northernhibee]

If we can get an adventure into Europe or two as a result of grinding out a few ugly results on winter pitches then I think we’d all forget about the more tricky times.

[Since452]

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The problem with that Calum is there is absolutely no context to what you are saying.
When the manager came in we were floundering in the bottom six - as were a certain side that are now playing championship football.

Meanwhile we have rocketed to 3rd place our highest league position we can reasonably expect to finish (where we have done so once since 2000/01),
We have made every semi final for the last few years, as I've said to me our signing policy is as clear and obvious with as much direction as I have ever seen,

But you are bored watching a winning team with for me a clear direction and would trade it for a team that wins less to see some good but ultimately losing football. So the manager is actually doing too well for you. Do you see what I mean? Doesn't seem very sensible given context. I've seen this Hibs team play some great football and score some great goals in places this season.

Not telling anyone how to behave but for me there is is generally more negativity and people jumping on the players back at half time in games than there should be.

Said it on another thread that the style of play thing has probably held this club back and heaped unnecessary pressure on managers more than at other clubs. Some folk would rather we played like Barcelona once every few games and finished 5th or 6th. I'd take a run of consecutive seasons finishing 3rd or 4th playing industrial football every time (I don't think that's how we play btw). Never happened in my lifetime. Would give the club a platform to grow on and off the park. Everyone loves pretty football but teams are set up too well and are too good tactically now for it to be successful.

[JimBHibees]

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"Masses of fans that are bored with our style of play" (i.e. - 15 to 20 posters of Hibs.net)

Did you see the state of the pitch yesterday, do you know how difficult it is for ball carrying players like Boyle and Murphy to play effectively on that surface, especially so on a blustery day?

Yesterday Ross set up his team to do what was needed. We created by far the better chances and (apart from a solitary lapse) our defence looked very solid. First half was horrible to watch but we won on merit with a decent second half performance.

Would be nice to see you take some account of the conditions over the winter months and maybe accept that the opposition is there for a reason.

It never ceases to amaze me how a small vocal minority of posters on these boards continually focus on the negatives.

A 2v0 win against Kilmarnock yesterday, 3rd in the league, in the semi final of the league cup and yet here you are looking for something to be negative about

Absolutely spot on some posters determined to be right rather than give any sort of credit. It hasn't all been great this season however as your last sentence indicates the positives hugely outweigh the negatives. You get the impression some will be happy if we lose on Saturday so they can pile in again. Look at the type of players we are signing I think we are buying good footballers predominantly. Progress is clear to see imo.

[Keith_M]

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It’s not nonsense at all. The fact so many people comment on it every week and you’ve felt that you need to address it says a lot.

Read the match threads. Most weeks there is masses of fans that are bored by our style of play. That’s almost acceptable if we’re winning, but even then, our wins are often boring as well.

Ross is picking up decent results and that’s of course a good thing. But the method of getting them isn’t great at all and it’s something we’ve slaughtered Aberdeen for in the past.

I think people have the right to point out when we've played poorly, or not in a very entertaining way. I posted something along those lines yesterday at half-time, where I decried how poorly we played... outside of the first 15 minutes or so.

However, I think some posters are becoming quite blinkered when they start describing whole games as being dull or boring, as it means they're making a conscious decision to ignore either the first 10-15 minutes or so of yesterday's game or the improvement we then made in the second half.

In addition, there's a failure to recognise that there are two teams on the park, and that Killie did very well in closing Hibs down for long spells.

They're also closing their minds entirely to games where we've played well and won convincingly.


Or are you actually saying that we had literally no decent passages of play yesterday or that we've never played entertaining football at all this season?

[worcesterhibby]

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With the players we’ve signed and those returning from injury the style and finesse will return in abundance. At the moment all that matters to me is staying 3rd and winning the semi final.

The pitch, the so called boring play, the home record........none of it really bothering me that much in the greater scheme of things.

It’s a bit of a rollercoaster season so far, but the good far outweighs any moans for me. People just need to enjoy it for what it is.

2/3rds of the way through the league campaign, we’re in a great position. We’re bringing in the kind of players you would hope to see at Hibs. The manager knows what he’s doing.

Here’s hoping Celtic implode, Aberdeen have a poor run and we go on a winning streak of form. You have to dream.

good post, completely agree

[hibbysam]

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I think people have the right to point out when we've played poorly, or not in a very entertaining way. I posted something along those lines yesterday at half-time, where I decried how poorly we played... outside of the first 15 minutes or so.

However, I think some posters are becoming quite blinkered when they start describing whole games as being dull or boring, as it means they're making a conscious decision to ignore either the first 10-15 minutes or so of yesterday's game or the improvement we then made in the second half.

In addition, there's a failure to recognise that there are two teams on the park, and that Killie did very well in closing Hibs down for long spells.

They're also closing their minds entirely to games where we've played well and won convincingly.


Or are you actually saying that we had literally no decent passages of play yesterday or that we've never played entertaining football at all this season?

Or the same posters that would ‘accept a place or two lower for good football’ then complaining when we were outstanding against Dundee United but dropped points thus completely contradicting the points being made today.

Your post sums it up completely. By all means complain about certain passages of play or periods of games, but at least have an overall assessment based on all facts, conditions, teams, situations etc.

[JimBHibees]

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Yup, likewise. Over the course of a season I’d take a place or so lower for good football. Finishing third ever year with dreadful football really wouldn’t be enjoyable at all imo.

That makes no sense so you would rather lose more games and get less money for the club by being open and attacking but poorer defensively. As it happens we do try and attack and play attacking the vast majority of games including recent away games in Glasgow. We are still developing as a team and personally am happy with the quality of players being brought in.

[Since452]

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Said it on another thread that the style of play thing has probably held this club back and heaped unnecessary pressure on managers more than at other clubs. Some folk would rather we played like Barcelona once every few games and finished 5th or 6th. I'd take a run of consecutive seasons finishing 3rd or 4th playing industrial football every time (I don't think that's how we play btw). Never happened in my lifetime. Would give the club a platform to grow on and off the park. Everyone loves pretty football but teams are set up too well and are too good tactically now for it to be successful.

Actually it has. Finished 4th or better in back to back seasons once in my lifetime under Mowbray and that's the only time since the mid 70's. Utterly chronic. No wonder we can't compete with Aberdeen for players.

[B.H.F.C]

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Absolutely spot on some posters determined to be right rather than give any sort of credit. It hasn't all been great this season however as your last sentence indicates the positives hugely outweigh the negatives. You get the impression some will be happy if we lose on Saturday so they can pile in again. Look at the type of players we are signing I think we are buying good footballers predominantly. Progress is clear to see imo.

I know some folk like a moan (me included sometimes). But I never buy this idea that folk will be happy when we lose. Some folk aren’t happy when we win, christ knows how they feel when we lose!

I think the bit about the players we are signing is where the expectation comes from. I think we have players capable of playing better, certainly in an attacking sense. We will finish fourth at worst which is where we should be as a minimum this season (given the backing Ross has had). If he can keep us in third then a decent job becomes a good job for me. This semi final next week is huge for him now.

[The Modfather]

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That makes no sense so you would rather lose more games and get less money for the club by being open and attacking but poorer defensively. As it happens we do try and attack and play attacking the vast majority of games including recent away games in Glasgow. We are still developing as a team and personally am happy with the quality of players being brought in.

That’s the camp I’m in. Given a binary choice between playing exciting football (think Mowbray team where you never knew what Hibs would turn up week to week but that was part of the fun with some of the crazy comebacks, as well as random thumpings) and finishing 5th or 6th v Fenlon or Mcinnes style football and finishing 3rd or 4th. Over the medium to long term I’d take the former. All I want from Hibs is to enjoy the money, and more importantly, time I’m spending at games. Success, but the actual 90 minutes on a Saturday being a chore isn’t for me, in this binary hypothetical debate.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the above. Others might feel the opposite, that’s fine.

I’ve said before. We’re making progress and Ross is doing a good job overall. However a lot of times this season I’ve been bored for large parts of games and flitted in and out of watching the game. I think most of our performances are difficult to criticise, but also difficult to get too excited by. Functional is how I’d describe us most of the season.

[calumhibee1]

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That’s the camp I’m in. Given a binary choice between playing exciting football (think Mowbray team where you never knew what Hibs would turn up week to week but that was part of the fun with some of the crazy comebacks, as well as random thumpings) and finishing 5th or 6th v Fenlon or Mcinnes style football and finishing 3rd or 4th. Over the medium to long term I’d take the former. All I want from Hibs is to enjoy the money, and more importantly, time I’m spending at games. Success, but the actual 90 minutes on a Saturday being a chore isn’t for me, in this binary hypothetical debate.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the above. Others might feel the opposite, that’s fine.

I’ve said before. We’re making progress and Ross is doing a good job overall. However a lot of times this season I’ve been bored for large parts of games and flitted in and out of watching the game. I think most of our performances are difficult to criticise, but also difficult to get too excited by. Functional is how I’d describe us most of the season.

Exactly where I am.

I’d rather enjoy the football than watch us get to 3rd or 4th whilst being bored to tears. I’d maybe have a different view point if it was winning the league with boring football, but finishing slightly higher in the league which still doesn’t win you anything and playing crap stuff? Not for me thanks.

That’s not to say the Ross situation is as binary as that as you say, but there’s certainly an element of decent enough results with extremely boring football at times. That’s fine for short periods but I certainly hope it’s not where we’re headed longer term, like Aberdeen for example.

In reply to Jim, I don’t really care about the extra money we could earn finishing higher if it’s going towards a team that isn’t enjoyable to watch. I’d rather finish a place or two lower, get less prize money but watch some very decent football than finish a position or two higher which still doesn’t win you anything, play boring football but be able to say ‘at least we got more money’ at the end of the season.

Playing good football and finishing higher up the league aren’t two things that can’t go together. In fact I’d suggest that doing the first thing usually ends up more often than not with you doing the second thing. Just look at the league winners all around the world most seasons. They’re usually also a team that play a brand of football that is very easy on the eye.

[Key West]

Interesting the criticisms that are made at half time, in the majority of games these days the first half is about getting a foothold and the second period usually proves to be more entertaining as players tire. There were always people moaning around me about the 1st half even when McGinn and Lennon were here. Players are much fitter now and cancel each other out especially when the energy levels are at a peak.

[Silky]

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Exactly where I am.

I’d rather enjoy the football than watch us get to 3rd or 4th whilst being bored to tears. I’d maybe have a different view point if it was winning the league with boring football, but finishing slightly higher in the league which still doesn’t win you anything and playing crap stuff? Not for me thanks.

That’s not to say the Ross situation is as binary as that as you say, but there’s certainly an element of decent enough results with extremely boring football at times. That’s fine for short periods but I certainly hope it’s not where we’re headed longer term, like Aberdeen for example.

In reply to Jim, I don’t really care about the extra money we could earn finishing higher if it’s going towards a team that isn’t enjoyable to watch. I’d rather finish a place or two lower, get less prize money but watch some very decent football than finish a position or two higher which still doesn’t win you anything, play boring football but be able to say ‘at least we got more money’ at the end of the season.

Playing good football and finishing higher up the league aren’t two things that can’t go together. In fact I’d suggest that doing the first thing usually ends up more often than not with you doing the second thing. Just look at the league winners all around the world most seasons. They’re usually also a team that play a brand of football that is very easy on the eye.

I guess if the product on show is exciting, it will bring in more fans which would possibly make up for any reduced prize money by finishing lower in the league.

It's easy to be bored right now, but at the same time, I like the fact that we are third and still in touch. Would I prefer a more exciting brand of football if meant we finished 5th or 6th? I'm genuinely not sure, because the chances are it means Hearts are consistently above us, which, judging by the reaction after the semi, means the manager who is playing that exciting football may not last too long!!

[Gordy M]

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I think people have the right to point out when we've played poorly, or not in a very entertaining way. I posted something along those lines yesterday at half-time, where I decried how poorly we played... outside of the first 15 minutes or so.

However, I think some posters are becoming quite blinkered when they start describing whole games as being dull or boring, as it means they're making a conscious decision to ignore either the first 10-15 minutes or so of yesterday's game or the improvement we then made in the second half.

In addition, there's a failure to recognise that there are two teams on the park, and that Killie did very well in closing Hibs down for long spells.

They're also closing their minds entirely to games where we've played well and won convincingly.


Or are you actually saying that we had literally no decent passages of play yesterday or that we've never played entertaining football at all this season?

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Exactly where I am.

I’d rather enjoy the football than watch us get to 3rd or 4th whilst being bored to tears. I’d maybe have a different view point if it was winning the league with boring football, but finishing slightly higher in the league which still doesn’t win you anything and playing crap stuff? Not for me thanks.

That’s not to say the Ross situation is as binary as that as you say, but there’s certainly an element of decent enough results with extremely boring football at times. That’s fine for short periods but I certainly hope it’s not where we’re headed longer term, like Aberdeen for example.

In reply to Jim, I don’t really care about the extra money we could earn finishing higher if it’s going towards a team that isn’t enjoyable to watch. I’d rather finish a place or two lower, get less prize money but watch some very decent football than finish a position or two higher which still doesn’t win you anything, play boring football but be able to say ‘at least we got more money’ at the end of the season.

Playing good football and finishing higher up the league aren’t two things that can’t go together. In fact I’d suggest that doing the first thing usually ends up more often than not with you doing the second thing. Just look at the league winners all around the world most seasons. They’re usually also a team that play a brand of football that is very easy on the eye.

The thing is, we have done that in the past, played well and ended up losing games, and the reaction on here and at the ground isnt "ah well we played great, didnt mind losing in the end" ive lost count the amount of games we battered teams and ended up losing a late goal to end up losing or drawing, and the reaction isnt a good one.

Sorry Keith M, not sure why your post is included?, was replying to calum

[hibbysam]

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Exactly where I am.

I’d rather enjoy the football than watch us get to 3rd or 4th whilst being bored to tears. I’d maybe have a different view point if it was winning the league with boring football, but finishing slightly higher in the league which still doesn’t win you anything and playing crap stuff? Not for me thanks.

That’s not to say the Ross situation is as binary as that as you say, but there’s certainly an element of decent enough results with extremely boring football at times. That’s fine for short periods but I certainly hope it’s not where we’re headed longer term, like Aberdeen for example.

In reply to Jim, I don’t really care about the extra money we could earn finishing higher if it’s going towards a team that isn’t enjoyable to watch. I’d rather finish a place or two lower, get less prize money but watch some very decent football than finish a position or two higher which still doesn’t win you anything, play boring football but be able to say ‘at least we got more money’ at the end of the season.

Playing good football and finishing higher up the league aren’t two things that can’t go together. In fact I’d suggest that doing the first thing usually ends up more often than not with you doing the second thing. Just look at the league winners all around the world most seasons. They’re usually also a team that play a brand of football that is very easy on the eye.

You’re talking like we are boring to watch though which isn’t true at all. We go through spells during games and have the odd game, but we have far more exciting games than dull ones. Plus the fact we’re sitting in our houses and not at the games and building an atmosphere which makes even the duller games much better. Give me my European trips year in year out which I’ll enjoy regardless of performances or results than 5/6/7th place playing nice attacking football but losing late goals or getting bullied week in week out.

[hibbysam]

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I guess if the product on show is exciting, it will bring in more fans which would possibly make up for any reduced prize money by finishing lower in the league.

It's easy to be bored right now, but at the same time, I like the fact that we are third and still in touch. Would I prefer a more exciting brand of football if meant we finished 5th or 6th? I'm genuinely not sure, because the chances are it means Hearts are consistently above us, which, judging by the reaction after the semi, means the manager who is playing that exciting football may not last too long!!

Playing good football but finishing outside the European spots wouldn’t bring fans through the door, fans want teams that are winning. Stubbs had us playing really good football for two years and our attendances were utterly rotten.

[Dr What If?]

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The thing is, we have done that in the past, played well and ended up losing games, and the reaction on here and at the ground isnt "ah well we played great, didnt mind losing in the end" ive lost count the amount of games we battered teams and ended up losing a late goal to end up losing or drawing, and the reaction isnt a good one.

Sorry Keith M, not sure why your post is included?, was replying to calum

This. 'Hibs are a boy band, Hibs are soft centred, Hibs lack confidence to see out games'......terms I've read on here and in the media for years now. Well we are not a boy band now. A mantra managers love in a post match interview is 'we need to win the right to play'. There are some tough sides in this league, they don't turn up to make us look good.

[WhileTheChief..]

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You’re talking like we are boring to watch though which isn’t true at all. We go through spells during games and have the odd game, but we have far more exciting games than dull ones. Plus the fact we’re sitting in our houses and not at the games and building an atmosphere which makes even the duller games much better. Give me my European trips year in year out which I’ll enjoy regardless of performances or results than 5/6/7th place playing nice attacking football but losing late goals or getting bullied week in week out.

That’s surely subjective though?

There have been lots of people on here saying they find the style of play boring. You can’t decide for someone else that it’s not!

Two people can watch the same game, one finds it exciting and the other boring. Nothing wrong with that, there’s no right or wrong.

[Since452]

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Playing good football but finishing outside the European spots wouldn’t bring fans through the door, fans want teams that are winning. Stubbs had us playing really good football for two years and our attendances were utterly rotten.

Or money. We'd continue to lose out on players to Aberdeen. Sounds fantastic.

[Callum_62]

I firmly believe if we were guarenteed a 6th place finish every year but play decent football then this board would be full of moaning about us under achieving

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

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You’re talking like we are boring to watch though which isn’t true at all. We go through spells during games and have the odd game, but we have far more exciting games than dull ones. Plus the fact we’re sitting in our houses and not at the games and building an atmosphere which makes even the duller games much better. Give me my European trips year in year out which I’ll enjoy regardless of performances or results than 5/6/7th place playing nice attacking football but losing late goals or getting bullied week in week out.

You might not find it boring, but plenty people do, hence why it’s constantly a topic of conversation on here. It’s subjective. We haven’t had an exciting game for ages imo and I’d say we have far more dull ones than exciting ones. I’d probably say the last game where our performance was genuinely exciting was Hamilton which was probably 8 or 9 games ago?

European trips are great, absolutely. But if it’s a case of 38 games of boring as **** football in return for a trip to Scandinavia in the summer or week in week out exciting football and missing out on said trip to Scandinavia then I’d probably prefer the latter. Of course, both of them would be even better.

[calumhibee1]

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Playing good football but finishing outside the European spots wouldn’t bring fans through the door, fans want teams that are winning. Stubbs had us playing really good football for two years and our attendances were utterly rotten.

Stubbs team won 58% of games under him, more than any manager in my life time. Simply winning games doesn’t bring fans through the door on its own either, just look at Aberdeen.

Winning cups and playing good football certainly saw a big improvement in our crowds though.

[Alfred E Newman]

I find most games boring to watch at the moment, largely down to the lack of crowds and atmosphere.

[hibbysam]

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Stubbs team won 58% of games under him, more than any manager in my life time. Simply winning games doesn’t bring fans through the door on its own either, just look at Aberdeen.

Winning cups and playing good football certainly saw a big improvement in our crowds though.

Winning the cup did, nothing to do with how we played football otherwise fans would’ve come back those seasons under Stubbs. For all the games we won under Stubbs we achieved nothing until the cup win, hence why fans stayed away. Qualifying for Europe and winning trophies is a far bigger driver on crowds than ‘good football’ will ever be.

[hibbysam]

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You might not find it boring, but plenty people do, hence why it’s constantly a topic of conversation on here. It’s subjective. We haven’t had an exciting game for ages imo and I’d say we have far more dull ones than exciting ones. I’d probably say the last game where our performance was genuinely exciting was Hamilton which was probably 8 or 9 games ago?

European trips are great, absolutely. But if it’s a case of 38 games of boring as **** football in return for a trip to Scandinavia in the summer or week in week out exciting football and missing out on said trip to Scandinavia then I’d probably prefer the latter. Of course, both of them would be even better.

Of course it’s subjective, hence why bringing it up at every opportunity because you personally find it boring is counter productive. If you weren’t excited by how we played against Dundee United then fair enough. I don’t think I’ve seen us that dominant in years so I’d presume your expectations far outweigh reality. I’ll take our football right now for the position we find ourselves in, and the momentum we are building any day of the week.

[calumhibee1]

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Of course it’s subjective, hence why bringing it up at every opportunity because you personally find it boring is counter productive. If you weren’t excited by how we played against Dundee United then fair enough. I don’t think I’ve seen us that dominant in years so I’d presume your expectations far outweigh reality. I’ll take our football right now for the position we find ourselves in, and the momentum we are building any day of the week.

It’s not just me that brings it up though as you’re suggesting, it gets mentioned all over the majority of match day threads and it gets mentioned all over the threads after these games on the forum. Go and read the match day thread from yesterday up until half time and try and suggest it’s just me that keeps saying it. Tam McManus pointed it out yesterday how boring it was to watch at half time. Plenty folk are finding it boring.

[GreenCastle]

We aren’t boring to watch - most games are pretty close and while we may not be as fluid as we have seen over some seasons you have to find a balance.

Unless you are miles ahead of other teams with better players the free flowing stuff is fantasy stuff.

Who in Scotland plays free flowing football every week? Maybe the teams with most money and can afford the creative / really skilful players ?

Fans wanting good style over 3rd / 4th ?

I would happily win every derby for the rest of my life 1-0 and play rubbish - be a scrappy game then have a poor derby record. We aren’t going to improve the derby record if we just have the boyband silky players especially at Tynecastles small pitch.

You can’t just pick and choose when you are a free flowing team. Winning and fluid football is the dream for most and especially the purists - our club needs consistency and we are mostly getting that. But we still need to improve in the important games like semi finals / derbies and teams around us (Aberdeen / Celtic / Rangers / Livi).

[flash]

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It’s not just me that brings it up though as you’re suggesting, it gets mentioned all over the majority of match day threads and it gets mentioned all over the threads after these games on the forum. Go and read the match day thread from yesterday up until half time and try and suggest it’s just me that keeps saying it. Tam McManus pointed it out yesterday how boring it was to watch at half time. Plenty folk are finding it boring.

Which teams have been consistently attractive on the eye this season?

[GreenCastle]

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I find most games boring to watch at the moment, largely down to the lack of crowds and atmosphere.

I’ve watched games in the past from all leagues and football can be boring if you take the fake crowd noise out and atmosphere.

Depends what you want..nothing beats live football but often crap games are disguised by the noise - English league definitely showed this.