(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

[spike220]

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Opinions are genuinely worthless if they don't come from a qualified source, I follow facts and what those who have genuine insight. Opinions are what we do on forums, indeed, but if your opinions are based on nothing at all then they're worth as much and you're wasting your and everybodies time in participating if this is the case.

From what we are being shown, Donald Trump is an out of control sociopath who is whipping up crowds determined to attack American democracy. Joe Biden is at least trying to bring sense to things and has a career based on trying to find concensus and is skilled in diplomacy, so is a far safer set of hands to run things.

As I say, I'd love to see the evidence that you surely must have based your opinion on that Biden is not a considerably safer set of hands.

Again, I'd also love to see the evidence that you've based your mistrust of Pelosi on.

Well mostly conversations with Americans, so definitely not evidence. I have quite a few friends and acquaintancesfrom the US across the spectrum. The feeling I get is a huge sense disunity. Both sides are to blame for this and media and social media both play up to this. Many families are torn apart by growing political devisions. Which does not benefit society. The thinking that One side will be the safe pair of hands is in my opinion not realistic if it divides society further. Some have talked about the need to desolve the United States to address the deep divisions. Not something I have ever heard before in my lifetime. So I don't see stability returning to the USA soon. But I am sure some of the Hibs netters living in the USA will have their own take on this.

[pollution]

All very interesting opinions in this thread.

My main thought is why did the police etc allow this demonstration such close and easy access to the buildings themselves ?

I don't want to go into collusion theories; that set of buildings must surely be easy to defend. What did not happen and why.

[Hibbyradge]

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John Barron genuinely was an alias Trump used previously. 😁

[Ozyhibby]

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Not sure where you are getting your "evidence" from? The US nuclear launch protocol has nothing to do with "press hype" - the President is "ultimately" the sole authority - formally, the President does not need approval or consent to launch nuclear missiles, he can take advice from the SoD, StratCom; Pentagon, military advisors, and any other others or leave it as he pleases it seems.

Strengthening Checks on Presidential Nuclear Launch Authority | Arms Control Association
Protocol for a U.S. Nuclear Strike (wagingpeace.org)
Nuclear bomb launch procedure by US government and president - Business Insider

You say it has always required two people, I don't think that is the case, what, e.g. would be the logic in that if a decision has to be made quickly and one of the two disagrees with the other? Are you mixing this up perhaps with the missile operators who have to be 2 in number?

The President has sole authority but only if it’s legal. There are protocols in place. The country would need to be attacked first. If all the protocols are not followed then the generals will refuse to act. It’s not just a red button on his desk.


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[Keith_M]

Here's the Big Red Button.

[PeeJay]

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The President has sole authority but only if it’s legal. There are protocols in place. The country would need to be attacked first. If all the protocols are not followed then the generals will refuse to act. It’s not just a red button on his desk.


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No - the power is in the hands of the civilians, i.e. the people (represented here by the President) and NOT in the hands of the military or others: there is justified reason to this being the case. Think about it for a moment!
The links I posted explain it better, but dissenting generals as you imply are not logical. Imagine the country was under attack and people and generals start debating "should we shouldn't we press the button" - someone has to decide and the protocol clearly says it is the President and he is the sole authority. The "country has to be under attack" is not true either. There is not a "no-first use policy" in the USA, it all seems to be under review and some people don't agree with the current situation, but it is what it is.

I never mentioned a big red button by the way, but I think Mr Orange thinks there is one ...

[Hibbyradge]

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No - the power is in the hands of the civilians, i.e. the people (represented here by the President) and NOT in the hands of the military or others: there is justified reason to this being the case. Think about it for a moment!
The links I posted explain it better, but dissenting generals as you imply are not logical. Imagine the country was under attack and people and generals start debating "should we shouldn't we press the button" - someone has to decide and the protocol clearly says it is the President and he is the sole authority. The "country has to be under attack" is not true either. There is not a "no-first use policy" in the USA, it all seems to be under review and some people don't agree with the current situation, but it is what it is.

I never mentioned a big red button by the way, but I think Mr Orange thinks there is one ...

You are correct in all the above.

However, under the circumstances, I think there's a very good chance that the military would deduce that the president was unstable and resist his demands until he was Amendment 25'd.

I would hope...

[wookie70]

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The best thing Biden could do for western democracies would be to destroy Twitter and Facebook, or completely change them through strict regulation.

I agree but then you would have to do the same with the News Broadcasters. I have been watching Fox just to see what the far right are saying. You would still think Trump was the reasonable voice in this if you only listened to Fox News. I always try and seek both sides of the story although I am similar in politics to Corbyn. The Uk is full of people with similar views as Trump voters and they have a poster boy here too. Racism and looking after yourself at the expense of your community are as much British values as American ones. So sad that working people continually paint targets on each others backs rather than those who create the world's ills. I always used to say there are far more good people in the world than bad but Facebook and Twitter is starting to change my mind on that

[spike220]

It's not just my opinion that USA is divided and is not well served by the political distrust of politicians across the spectrum. Not really evidence as such but just illustrates the point I made earlier.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-...ATR33MAFZBXZY/

[MWHIBBIES]

While the democrats aren't blameless, putting them on the same level of blame for the divisiveness as the GOP is mad. Guys like Cruz and Hawley should be facing jail for the chaos they've helped cause.

[CropleyWasGod]

The State Department has lifted restrictions on contact with Taiwan.

That's really gonna piss off the Chinese. 😁 Probably won't be the last of the F-youse from Trump over the next week.

[SHODAN]

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Don't believe the hype in the press the POTUS can't single handed luanch a nuclear attack. It has always required two people. Imho Biden just as like to in any case and I certainly don't trust Pelosi.

It's unfair to criticise Rangers, what about Celtic?

[JimBHibees]

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All very interesting opinions in this thread.

My main thought is why did the police etc allow this demonstration such close and easy access to the buildings themselves ?

I don't want to go into collusion theories; that set of buildings must surely be easy to defend. What did not happen and why.

That is the biggest question of all.

[Bristolhibby]

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All very interesting opinions in this thread.

My main thought is why did the police etc allow this demonstration such close and easy access to the buildings themselves ?

I don't want to go into collusion theories; that set of buildings must surely be easy to defend. What did not happen and why.

You don’t want to talk about collusion but it could well be.

A mix of passive and subconscious. Not being funny but we have clear evidence that Police find it easier to brutalise people of colour and people who’s views they don’t agree with.

Washington DC’s unique governance makes swift reaction to unrest difficult. Federal v surrounding states (Virginia and Maryland) law i for cement and National Guard.

Then there’s the hesitation that comes from the fact the PRESIDENT egged these people on.

All adds to a much softer approach.

Compare the direct order that Trump gave to crack skulls so he could pose with a Bible (WTF was that BTW. I’m convinced the Can’t has never read it and doesn’t have the attention span to try).

Night and day.

J

[Bristolhibby]

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You are correct in all the above.

However, under the circumstances, I think there's a very good chance that the military would deduce that the president was unstable and resist his demands until he was Amendment 25'd.

I would hope...

All their training is to assume not. As said, hesitation cannot come into things like the deterrent.

J

[Hibbyradge]

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All their training is to assume not. As said, hesitation cannot come into things like the deterrent.

J

Hopefully we'll never find out, but despite their training, the military are human beings and will be well aware of what's going on in and around the Whitehouse.

If it was a retaliatory strike, I imagine they would act first then ask questions, but we're talking about a brand new initiative, never previously discussed against a target which is posing no imminent threat.

They'll also know that Pelosi has asked for the codes to be kept away from Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if the President elect didn't weigh in. He may already have done so privately.

PS I won that hypothetical argument... BY A LOT!

[Ozyhibby]

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All their training is to assume not. As said, hesitation cannot come into things like the deterrent.

J

The military have lawyers watching their every move as well though. They won’t do it without question.


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[ACLeith]

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Compare the direct order that Trump gave to crack skulls so he could pose with a Bible (WTF was that BTW. I’m convinced the Can’t has never read it and doesn’t have the attention span to try).
J

Biden’s response to that stunt was to suggest that rather than hold the Bible (upside down) as a weapon he would have been better opening it and having a read.

He has been asked questions about the content that confirms he has almost certainly never read it, so you are spot on BH.

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/s...284874240?s=21


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[Hibbyradge]

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https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/s...284874240?s=21


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Powerful stuff from a high profile and highly popular republican.

[Jones28]

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https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/s...284874240?s=21


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That’s gave me chills man. He’s a great speaker, some of his stuff is on YouTube and is very compelling.

“You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets” is a personal favourite.

[matty_f]

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That’s gave me chills man. He’s a great speaker, some of his stuff is on YouTube and is very compelling.

“You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets” is a personal favourite.

I loved that halfway through it he whaps out a sword.

[greenlex]

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I loved that halfway through it he whaps out a sword.

It started well but I think it became a bit contrived theatrical and all too Hollywood at the death. Powerful enough tho.

[Hibbyradge]

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It started well but I think it became a bit contrived theatrical and all too Hollywood at the death. Powerful enough tho.

I thought it was well weighted and got the balance right. Conan's sword will have pleased Arnie fans as that was his first film and the point he made was strong.

The halfwits in Qanon etc will understand the message given that they respect weaponry so much! We'll, maybe not, but overall the video didn't miss anyone and it will give support to other republicans who were sickened by what happened.

In a "I like watching car crashes" sort of way, I almost wish the fascist still had his Twitter account so I could enjoy the rage.

[Mon Dieu4]

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I thought it was well weighted and got the balance right. Conan's sword will have pleased Arnie fans as that was his first film and the point he made was strong.

The halfwits in Qanon etc will understand the message given that they respect weaponry so much! We'll, maybe not, but overall the video didn't miss anyone and it will give support to other republicans who were sickened by what happened.

In a "I like watching car crashes" sort of way, I almost wish the fascist still had his Twitter account so I could enjoy the rage.

Know what you mean, I'm half considering registering on parler and gab to see what all the lunatics are up to

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/rayredacted/stat...118273537?s=21


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[Ozyhibby]

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[G B Young]

Happened to be watching Sky when this was aired live the other day. If you've got a few minutes to spare it's worth watching from start to finish. It's simply great TV!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPPTziFY9YQ

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Happened to be watching Sky when this was aired live the other day. If you've got a few minutes to spare it's worth watching from start to finish. It's simply great TV!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPPTziFY9YQ

Got about 2/3 through it then wanted to strangle her so much I had to stop watching.
I've been doing a fair amount of flicking between CNN and Fox over the last couple of weeks. Just incredible how polarised opinion is in that crazy messed up country.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Happened to be watching Sky when this was aired live the other day. If you've got a few minutes to spare it's worth watching from start to finish. It's simply great TV!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPPTziFY9YQ

I was watching it too. Just another of many nutcases surrounding Trump.