Jack Ross

[James Stephen]

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Who do you think Hibs could finish behind this season that would make 5th place acceptable?

Other than the old firm there’s Aberdeen, who are better positioned than us to finish 3rd. Anything below 4th this season would be shocking, regardless of what’s happened in the past.

Ive said above i agree its the par score for this year.

But the logic that dictates it - 4th biggest budget, so should finish 4th - is the same logic that means 4th is NOT the normal minimum target, as Hibs rarely have the 3rd or 4th biggest budget in the league.

[Allez Hibs]

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Who do you think Hibs could finish behind this season that would make 5th place acceptable?

Other than the old firm there’s Aberdeen, who are better positioned than us to finish 3rd. Anything below 4th this season would be shocking, regardless of what’s happened in the past.

And there's no Hearts in the league this season meaning we don't drop as many points.

[James Stephen]

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Hibs haven't finished 4th yet this season though. Could be a scramble to finish in the top 6 like last season.

Neilson had finished 3rd with Hearts the first season after they were promoted?

Could be, yes, and that would be an unsuccessful season.

But Hibs could also finish 3rd and win a cup, for the first time since 1972/73.

Why not wait and see before getting all angry and impatient?

[Allez Hibs]

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Could be, yes, and that would be an unsuccessful season.

But Hibs could also finish 3rd and win a cup, for the first time since 1972/73.

Why not wait and see before getting all angry and impatient?

Yes, let's hope 👍

[ekhibee]

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Absolutely, and I wouldn’t expect us to win loads of them. I wouldn’t even expect us to win the majority of them. But 2 in 14 is dreadful, especially when at least 4 of them (3 Aberdeen defeats and the Hearts defeat at ER) have been embarrassing. For nearly 1/3rd of our big games under him to have been embarrassing defeats really isn’t great.

The issue I think a lot of people have is that 4th and cup semi finals etc is the minimum we should be expecting. To be able to get anything more than the minimum then we really need to improve that record in big games. We’ll never finish above Aberdeen for example if we keep rolling over to them.

Our record in big games was pish a long time before Ross came along. Your points are true, but not new, as different Hibs managers, some of them more popular than Ross, might have had us playing groovy football but we were still losing to teams like Hearts and Aberdeen regularly.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Close, Hearts went through the 05/06 season losing twice at home, once to Celtic 2-3 and once to Aberdeen 1-2.

That same season we lost 7 games at home. Celtic, ICT, Falkirk, Aberdeen, Celtic, ICT and Rangers. We lost at home to ***** that season too. We've been doing it for years.

We also got scudded 3 times out of 5 games v hearts that season, including that semi final.

Which might suggest that Jack Ross should be cut a little bit of slack then since he's actually performing better on that front than almost every other Hibs manager of the past forty-odd years?

He very rarely loses at home to bad teams. These last two defeats have clearly shocked a few people because they were really out of the norm for this team since Ross took over. He's lost four home games against non-Old Firm opposition so far. Once against Aberdeen where a brain fart from Boyle gives them a soft penalty. Once against Hearts where they turned up and outplayed us (not acceptable), then the two defeats in this past week where somebody has made a pretty decent post on another thread that may go some way to explaining it.

[James Stephen]

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Yes, let's hope 👍

👍

[basehibby]

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It’s obviously not the minimum that has been achieved. But it’s the minimum expectation of what should be achieved (and the club themselves have been vocal about that over the last few years). That’s why managers have lost their job at Hibs with such regularity, for not achieving that as a minimum. Yogi and Lennon were all right whilst challenging for that type of position, as soon as the drop off came we moved on to the next guy.

That's not true at all though - we are one of the top 5 supported clubs in Scotland and should reasonably expect to be there or thereabouts in terms of league placings. So allowing a bit of wiggle room, 6th is a reasonable minimum expectation - anything below that is really not good enough and worthy of questions being asked about how the club's being run.

Any top 4 placing should be considered a successful league campaign for Hibs but sadly they come all too few and far between. I'd love to EXPECT Hibs to have a successful league campaign EVERY season but bitter experience has taught me to EXPECT frequent disappointment in that respect with only occasional flashes of punching our weight or better. I know that's not good enough and hope that the future will hold better. We are going slowly in the right direction I think.

[B.H.F.C]

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That's not true at all though - we are one of the top 5 supported clubs in Scotland and should reasonably expect to be there or thereabouts in terms of league placings. So allowing a bit of wiggle room, 6th is a reasonable minimum expectation - anything below that is really not good enough and worthy of questions being asked about how the club's being run.

Any top 4 placing should be considered a successful league campaign for Hibs but sadly they come all too few and far between. I'd love to EXPECT Hibs to have a successful league campaign EVERY season but bitter experience has taught me to EXPECT frequent disappointment in that respect with only occasional flashes of punching our weight or better. I know that's not good enough and hope that the future will hold better. We are going slowly in the right direction I think.

It’s definitely the expectation, the club put it out there all the time about European qualification being the objective. When we don’t do that, or it becomes clear we’re not going to do it, the manager generally changes. We’ve seen managers leave with us sitting in the top half of the league.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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It’s definitely the expectation, the club put it out there all the time about European qualification being the objective. When we don’t do that, or it becomes clear we’re not going to do it, the manager generally changes. We’ve seen managers leave with us sitting in the top half of the league.

Not true. As already explained to you, we've not finished in the top four in 34 of the last 40 seasons. It's more than par for the course that Hibs don't finish there very often. Time to accept it and lower your expectations a bit and realise Ross is actually outperforming most Hibs managers of the past four decades.

[B.H.F.C]

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Not true. As already explained to you, we've not finished in the top four in 34 of the last 40 seasons. It's more than par for the course that Hibs don't finish there very often. Time to accept it and lower your expectations a bit and realise Ross is actually outperforming most Hibs managers of the past four decades.

What’s not true?

You’re confusing what has been achieved with the expectation of what should be achieved.

We all know that Hibs have failed to finish in the top four most of the time. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t an expectation that we should, certainly in modern times with the advantages we have in terms of season ticket numbers, facilities etc.

[calumhibee1]

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Not true. As already explained to you, we've not finished in the top four in 34 of the last 40 seasons. It's more than par for the course that Hibs don't finish there very often. Time to accept it and lower your expectations a bit and realise Ross is actually outperforming most Hibs managers of the past four decades.

The fact we haven’t finished in the top four for 34 of the last 40 seasons has no impact on us going forward. The fact we’ve historically underachieved should in no way be used as an excuse for accepting under achievement going forward. If that’s how we are going to look at it then we should probably be sitting here celebrating a 6th place finish because we quite often don’t even manage that.

As others have pointed out, the club always targets European qualification. When a manager fails to deliver it they inevitably end up getting sacked eventually. Who was the last manager we had that wasn’t sacked or ‘mutually consented’ that didn’t get Europe at some point in their reign? Hecky, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Mixu, Bobby Williamson, Sauzee, Duffy.. I think every manager in my lifetime that hasn’t qualified for Europe through league placing (other than Stubbs who was poached by Rotherham) has been sacked so the club clearly feel top 4 is the aim regardless of the fact we have historically underachieved.

In a season where Hearts aren’t in the league the argument for top four being the minimum expectation just becomes even stronger.

[Brightside]

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What’s not true?

You’re confusing what has been achieved with the expectation of what should be achieved.

We all know that Hibs have failed to finish in the top four most of the time. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t an expectation that we should, certainly in modern times with the advantages we have in terms of season ticket numbers, facilities etc.

Hibs expectation is top6 every year and a semi final. Top 4 is above expectation. Ron wants us to be Top 4 year in year out. That’s a big step forward from the previous 20 years.

[Allez Hibs]

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Hibs expectation is top6 every year and a semi final. Top 4 is above expectation. Ron wants us to be Top 4 year in year out. That’s a big step forward from the previous 20 years.

A club of Hibs size happy with finishing in the top 6? 👀

[Magpie]

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The fact we haven’t finished in the top four for 34 of the last 40 seasons has no impact on us going forward. The fact we’ve historically underachieved should in no way be used as an excuse for accepting under achievement going forward. If that’s how we are going to look at it then we should probably be sitting here celebrating a 6th place finish because we quite often don’t even manage that.

As others have pointed out, the club always targets European qualification. When a manager fails to deliver it they inevitably end up getting sacked eventually. Who was the last manager we had that wasn’t sacked or ‘mutually consented’ that didn’t get Europe at some point in their reign? Hecky, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Mixu, Bobby Williamson, Sauzee, Duffy.. I think every manager in my lifetime that hasn’t qualified for Europe through league placing (other than Stubbs who was poached by Rotherham) has been sacked so the club clearly feel top 4 is the aim regardless of the fact we have historically underachieved.

In a season where Hearts aren’t in the league the argument for top four being the minimum expectation just becomes even stronger.

👌

[Magpie]

This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

[Steve20]

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This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

Yep. Although I've got a feeling we will get something against Rangers and win the semi final. Not sure why, but it would be a Hibs thing to do, lose to County and Livi and then beat Rangers.

[flash]

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This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

That's the spirit.

[Magpie]

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Yep. Although I've got a feeling we will get something against Rangers and win the semi final. Not sure why, but it would be a Hibs thing to do, lose to County and Livi and then beat Rangers.

Semi final is the big one. Realistically don’t expect anything from Celtic or Rangers but we should be taking something from Kilmarnock who we have beaten twice this season already.

[Magpie]

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That's the spirit.

It’s true though.

[Peevemor]

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It’s true though.

And if we lose all our games between now and the end of the season? That won't look promising either will it?

[Magpie]

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And if we lose all our games between now and the end of the season? That won't look promising either will it?

Obviously because we are losing every game we play.

[Peevemor]

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Obviously because we are losing every game we play.

Ah OK. Thanks for that.

[Fergus52]

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Why just the first 3? If you’re discounting the first 3 then I think you need to discount the 4th as well, was also before his first transfer window wasn’t it?

There is a lot of fine margins in the games, as you say, the semi final in particular that’s true.

I think the concerning thing is that he came to us with that reputation and it’s continued with us. At what point does that become no longer a coincidence and something he’s not doing right in terms of how he prepares and motivates the team before a big game?

Every time I write a post like this I hope it’s acting as a sort of hex that’ll get thrown back at me as soon as we win a big game again. I’d love it if we were to win the league cup but I really don’t think we will.

I think Ross is probably an excellent coach and I don’t doubt the players love him, I think he’s a sensible guy that knows football inside out. I am not convinced he’s a great motivator though.

I think the two points I've highlighted can be linked. Agree with your assessment of Ross at the end, seems like he isn't the best motivator and that's not just shown in big games, a few of our sub par performances against weaker times the players have looked a bit disinterested and sloppy.

I don't think that issue is exclusive to 'big games' and I don't think its fair to be including our games against the old firm in 'something he's not doing right' when as a whole our performances against the old firm this season have been pretty good.

[Fergus52]

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You could maybe put it down to bad luck if it didn’t keep happening in big games - if we managed to win more than 2 in 14 then you could have said the Celtic game was bad luck, or the semi final even. Unfortunately it happens with alarming frequency that we don’t manage to win big games. That would suggest it’s not just bad luck.

I just think 2 in 14 is misleading when it includes games against the old firm, which we aren't expected to get anything from, where we have played very well and came away with a point, or been narrowly defeated. I've not had a problem with the tactics, team selection, motivation of the players or general performance in any of the games against the OF this season.

[MWHIBBIES]

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This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

What if we win all 4?

[MWHIBBIES]

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Obviously because we are losing every game we play.

We lost 3 in a week. We've won A LOT more than we've lost this season.

[Coco Bryce]

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What if we win all 4?

Jack Ross will be the new Celtic Boss.

[Since452]

We should lose to Celtic and Rangers. Won't cry about it if we do. The semi is the big one for me.

[Magpie]

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What if we win all 4?

Then we are looking well on course to having a successful season.