Coronavirus

[Scouse Hibee]

Another lockdown for me personally would be a disaster if it happens before we can get the work done and get our new business up and running. What would really help us is an extension of the VAT reduction for another few months which would help immensely in our first few months of trading.

[Moulin Yarns]

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People seem quite happy to allow the government to pay for everything and to just sit in the house

Seriously!! End of furlough is 6 weeks away, and it's already been reduced.

[Ozyhibby]

The next lockdown needs to age specific. We can’t lock up the whole population again. We need to protect those most at risk and the rest of us need to get back to something approaching normal. Wear masks, download the app and isolate if you have to but get on with life apart from that.


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[lapsedhibee]

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I think this is the key question, the government has had months now to work out a decent financial support package for the most affected industries and individuals. I've not seen any sign that they're doing anything in the past couple of months other than lobbing a few quid at theatres / concert venues etc.

I don't think they can be criticised for the initial introduction of furlough, that was the right measure at (more or less) the right time. They now need to be thinking about the financial support that's needed in some areas to allow them to be put on pause to prevent the spread of the virus without sending them to the wall.

Instead of dropping £100,000,000,000 on testing 10 million people a day, or continuing to throw contracts at their pals and the likes of Deloitte and Serco I'd say the solutions are actually quite simple (and probably quite cheap compared to the proposed £100bn on testing):

1. Sort out testing capacity so that anyone who needs one gets one (plus also fix the tracing part in England)
2. Sort out full pay for people who are told to self isolate
3. Get testing sorted for people who are arriving into the country - if Italy can test everyone with results in 30 minutes I don't see why we can't
4. Conduct an industry by industry review to see what financial support is needed to keep them alive

If 1-3 are done well I don't think 4 needs to be particularly expensive - if the background prevalence of the virus is low then we can open up quite well - the restrictions over the past couple of months haven't been particularly severe, I think most people can live with them.

My theory is that the reason infections are going up just now is because we've done such a poor job of 2&3, and 1 is now falling over too. Based on the numbers as they were last month, the number of people who should have been told to self isolate was probably way less than 100,000, but even if we assume it was that amount, and each of them were given £2,000, that's still only £200m. That's a drop in the ocean (0.2% of the proposed spend on testing) compared to the other costs of handling the pandemic. Instead of which we've forced people into a position of having to choose between putting food on the table or self isolating. You could give every pub in the land £100,000 and it would still only cost half of what they're proposing to spend on 'moonshot' testing!

All true. I think the reason we can't is that the government and its advisors simply aren't bright enough to manage it. Harding, Hancock, etc, all promoted so far beyond their capabilities it's sad. Harding is so dim she can't even deny responsibility properly - she 'refutes' it

[AugustaHibs]

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Question. If my daughter has friends up and sits in front garden (2 households) and my other daughter has friends up and sits in back garden (2 households) and I have friends in the house (2 households) is this allowed or not. I get that it's 5 households all together but we would all be separate in our areas and wouldn't mingle or be near each other. I don't see the issue with it but if it is a problem we will just go across to the park where we can/Could actually sit a lot nearer to one another than we would be at the house.

I don’t see any issue with that. Only issue may be if you have neighbours who grass but surely not

[Hiber-nation]

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Restaurant is in Glasgow so seems pointless naming it on here. Wasn't Toni Macaronis though. Don't see why you'd want to avoid it if your following guidelines. We were 5 folk from 2 households which is allowed so don't get the hostility there. Should they have asked, probably but my main point was it's good to get out and try get back to some normality. Sitting about the house day and night doing nothing is no good for anyone.

OK. Each to their own, I was in a busy Italian restaurant (Papilio's) the other week and felt uncomfortable. People bumping into partitions, squeezing past folk etc. Rules were being attempted by the management I suppose but not for me.

[marinello59]

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I really feel for young people in all this. We've all had to make sacrifices throughout this, but if I think back to when I was in my final year of school and what I'd be giving up if this had happened when I was 18:

• Last day of school
• School prom
• Holiday with school pals after leaving school
• Various 18th birthday parties
• Moving into halls
• Freshers week
• Starting uni / meeting new mates

As an 18 year old these were all a really big deal for me. We've asked young folk to give up so much here, especially given the risk for them is close to zero. After 6 months of this, I don't think it's really surprising that they are really starting to struggle with the restrictions.

I’ve been saying for months we have already asked too much of the younger generation. Seeing so many willing to heap blame on them for increasing infection rates is thoroughly depressing.

[Smartie]

Am I the only one that would have happily spent a few months in my mid-late teens alone in my bedroom furiously masturbating?

F*** having mates, doing exams, going to proms etc.

[K-Zazu]

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Seriously!! End of furlough is 6 weeks away, and it's already been reduced.

Reduced to what?

[Rocky]

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Question. If my daughter has friends up and sits in front garden (2 households) and my other daughter has friends up and sits in back garden (2 households) and I have friends in the house (2 households) is this allowed or not. I get that it's 5 households all together but we would all be separate in our areas and wouldn't mingle or be near each other. I don't see the issue with it but if it is a problem we will just go across to the park where we can/Could actually sit a lot nearer to one another than we would be at the house.

I think your last two examples sum up why the Swedish approach wouldn't work here. They're taking personal responsibility for limiting the spread of the virus, so they wouldn't do the restaurant thing as it's against the guidance, even though they couldn't be "caught" because it's still less than 6 people so there's no way for the restaurant to know it's two households. They wouldn't think twice though about the six people between house and two gardens thing as that's clearly an entirely safe thing to do.

I'm all in favour of the Swedish model, it just appears, for whatever reason, that our national psyche prevents us from taking personal responsibility in the way that they do.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Reduced to what?

This table explains what the Gov are willing to pay and what they expect employers to pay. From August employers had to cover NICs and pension contributions. From September the Gov contribution reduced to 70% (max £2,187.50) From October the Gov contribution reduced to 60% (max £1,875.00)

If workplaces are closed and Employers have to cover the difference then a fair number will go bust with the outgoings being more than 0 income

	July	August	September	October
Government contribution: employer NICs and pension contributions	Yes	No	No	No
Government contribution: wages	80% up to £2,500	80% up to £2,500	70% up to £2,187.50	60% up to £1,875
Employer contribution: employer NICs and pension contributions	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
Employer contribution: wages	-	-	10% up to £312.50	20% up to £625
Employee receives	80% up to £2,500 per month	80% up to £2,500 per month	80% up to £2,500 per month	80% up to £2,500 per month

[Moulin Yarns]

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Your response post was brilliant, it saved me reading all the posts and put another poster to bed 😁

[Future17]

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Am I the only one that would have happily spent a few months in my mid-late teens alone in my bedroom furiously masturbating?

F*** having mates, doing exams, going to proms etc.

Can you do something furiously whilst being happy? Oxymoron Shirley?

[Sir David Gray]

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Question. If my daughter has friends up and sits in front garden (2 households) and my other daughter has friends up and sits in back garden (2 households) and I have friends in the house (2 households) is this allowed or not. I get that it's 5 households all together but we would all be separate in our areas and wouldn't mingle or be near each other. I don't see the issue with it but if it is a problem we will just go across to the park where we can/Could actually sit a lot nearer to one another than we would be at the house.

When you say you and your daughters all have friends over are the friends that each of you has over from the same household? Each group that meets must be from no more than 2 households so each of you can only meet with people from 1 other household at a time.

Whether that would be allowed under the current laws is debatable but I doubt if anyone would take action.

[Smartie]

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Can you do something furiously whilst being happy? Oxymoron Shirley?

Give me a few weeks off in October and I’ll “research” the subject.

[Jack]

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Question. If my daughter has friends up and sits in front garden (2 households) and my other daughter has friends up and sits in back garden (2 households) and I have friends in the house (2 households) is this allowed or not. I get that it's 5 households all together but we would all be separate in our areas and wouldn't mingle or be near each other. I don't see the issue with it but if it is a problem we will just go across to the park where we can/Could actually sit a lot nearer to one another than we would be at the house.

Your plan might fall apart when the outside folk come in for refreshments and subsequent pee. And the inside folk go out to tell the little blighters to keep the bloody noise down!

[Keith_M]

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...

I'm all in favour of the Swedish model, ...

Me too... have you got her phone number?

[stoneyburn hibs]

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OK. Each to their own, I was in a busy Italian restaurant (Papilio's) the other week and felt uncomfortable. People bumping into partitions, squeezing past folk etc. Rules were being attempted by the management I suppose but not for me.

I'm reverting back to not going to restaurants or pubs.
I just don't want to be in a position that could possibly make me feel uncomfortable.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I think this is the key question, the government has had months now to work out a decent financial support package for the most affected industries and individuals. I've not seen any sign that they're doing anything in the past couple of months other than lobbing a few quid at theatres / concert venues etc.

I don't think they can be criticised for the initial introduction of furlough, that was the right measure at (more or less) the right time. They now need to be thinking about the financial support that's needed in some areas to allow them to be put on pause to prevent the spread of the virus without sending them to the wall.

Instead of dropping £100,000,000,000 on testing 10 million people a day, or continuing to throw contracts at their pals and the likes of Deloitte and Serco I'd say the solutions are actually quite simple (and probably quite cheap compared to the proposed £100bn on testing):

1. Sort out testing capacity so that anyone who needs one gets one (plus also fix the tracing part in England)
2. Sort out full pay for people who are told to self isolate
3. Get testing sorted for people who are arriving into the country - if Italy can test everyone with results in 30 minutes I don't see why we can't
4. Conduct an industry by industry review to see what financial support is needed to keep them alive

If 1-3 are done well I don't think 4 needs to be particularly expensive - if the background prevalence of the virus is low then we can open up quite well - the restrictions over the past couple of months haven't been particularly severe, I think most people can live with them.

My theory is that the reason infections are going up just now is because we've done such a poor job of 2&3, and 1 is now falling over too. Based on the numbers as they were last month, the number of people who should have been told to self isolate was probably way less than 100,000, but even if we assume it was that amount, and each of them were given £2,000, that's still only £200m. That's a drop in the ocean (0.2% of the proposed spend on testing) compared to the other costs of handling the pandemic. Instead of which we've forced people into a position of having to choose between putting food on the table or self isolating. You could give every pub in the land £100,000 and it would still only cost half of what they're proposing to spend on 'moonshot' testing!

The UK as a whole and the devolved governments have been cuffing this from the start. When I compare the UK's reaction to other European countries then it can best be described as amateurish. Germany already had plans, laws and funds put aside for exactly this kind of crisis and so far it has paid off fantastically. The UK along with France, Spain and a few others really need to learn from this and ensure that they are prepared to act instead of just reacting next time.

[Keith_M]

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I'm reverting back to not going to restaurants or pubs.
I just don't want to be in a position that could possibly make me feel uncomfortable.

Some are managing this a lot better than others.

I realise it's not a hard and fast rule but I've tried a few places for eating out in recent weeks and found that... generally... Restaurants and Cafes have been much better than Pubs that sell food in enforcing the rules.

An absence of drunk guys wandering about the place does help a lot in that regard, but some of the pubs have also been quite lax when it comes to their own staff sticking to the rules.

[Hibrandenburg]

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The next lockdown needs to age specific. We can’t lock up the whole population again. We need to protect those most at risk and the rest of us need to get back to something approaching normal. Wear masks, download the app and isolate if you have to but get on with life apart from that.


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I think that's the plan, but it can only work if everybody abides by the rules and that just isn't happening.

[Hibrandenburg]

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All true. I think the reason we can't is that the government and its advisors simply aren't bright enough to manage it. Harding, Hancock, etc, all promoted so far beyond their capabilities it's sad. Harding is so dim she can't even deny responsibility properly - she 'refutes' it

The problem is that they're having to make it up as they go along because there was no plan before it all kicked off. If I remember correctly the UK government ignored advice about contingency plans being needed for this very scenario. They ignored the 7 P's: Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

[stoneyburn hibs]

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Some are managing this a lot better than others.

I realise it's not a hard and fast rule but I've tried a few places for eating out in recent weeks and found that... generally... Restaurants and Cafes have been much better than Pubs that sell food in enforcing the rules.

An absence of drunk guys wandering about the place does help a lot in that regard, but some of the pubs have also been quite lax when it comes to their own staff sticking to the rules.

Couple of places I was in last week were absolutely fine, with everyone following as expected.
Others not so good but each time it was the clientele snd not the establishment.

Some may say I'm being overly cautious and there's still lots of ways I could get infected but I'm just trying to reduce the chances.

[lapsedhibee]

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The problem is that they're having to make it up as they go along because there was no plan before it all kicked off. If I remember correctly the UK government ignored advice about contingency plans being needed for this very scenario. They ignored the 7 P's: Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Even without a proper plan in place in February, though, you could expect the person in charge of testing not to be surprised by the increased demand for testing when schools went back. Harding is way too dim to be in that role. 'Chumocracy' is apt.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Even without a proper plan in place in February, though, you could expect the person in charge of testing not to be surprised by the increased demand for testing when schools went back. Harding is way too dim to be in that role. 'Chumocracy' is apt.

Agreed, the fact that it's dim witted hoof****ing bungle****s that are having to improvise has made an already bad starting position even worse.

[B.H.F.C]

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Even without a proper plan in place in February, though, you could expect the person in charge of testing not to be surprised by the increased demand for testing when schools went back. Harding is way too dim to be in that role. 'Chumocracy' is apt.

I can’t believe she actually said that. The folk in charge have come out with some beauties throughout this, but that one takes a bit of beating.

[Moulin Yarns]

SDG is missing.


203 cases in scotland in last 24 hours

4.4% tests coming back positive (WHO defines under 5% as “under control” - getting close to that threshold)

9 more people in hospital, and one death after a positive case.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nicola sturgeon says numbers are “rising quite rapidly”. R number is above 1. Says hisital admission numbers in England are a “warning signal”. Also says covid cases amongst the older Scottish people are “beginning to rise”. Says we’re risking “exponential growth”

[Sir David Gray]

Daily Scottish update;

203 new cases since yesterday
Increase of 9 in the confirmed cases in hospital
No change in the confirmed cases in intensive care
1 death registered since yesterday

[Moulin Yarns]

FM @NicolaSturgeon cautions against non-essential overseas travel and travel to parts of the UK under tougher restrictions

Live updates: https://t.co/y34CrfUrcD https://t.co/1ltQF8erm5