The generic Hearts thread

[Ozyhibby]

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Some Jambos starting to claim victory that a 14-14-14 reconstruction is universally popular and has the support required already.

Doubt it has but also have never had any doubt that they will escape this one way or the other. It's what cockroaches do.

Every premiership club losing money is universally popular? Must be some good drugs floating about Gorgie these days.


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[Future17]

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If clause 12 is applied and the players contract is suspended until football is resumed, would that not mean they will resume their pay when the football starts again ? ie a deferment? Surely it cannot be used to terminate a contract without compensation?

A deferment ultimately requires payment of the wages due during the period of deferment. A suspension doesn't. I agree with you about termination though.

[cocteautwin]

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Some Jambos starting to claim victory that a 14-14-14 reconstruction is universally popular and has the support required already.

Doubt it has but also have never had any doubt that they will escape this one way or the other. It's what cockroaches do.

3 easy "NOs" must be Hibs, Celtic, Ross County I'd imagine. That's enough.

[Juniper Greens]

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3 easy "NOs" must be Hibs, Celtic, Ross County I'd imagine. That's enough.

So, if the following conditions are met, 4 no's are required.
1. The money distribution model for the top 12 clubs does not change
2. The number of teams within the SPFL remains at 42.

Potentially they could come up with that in a 14 X 3 setup. Really stiffs brora and kelty though, so I don't understand how Ann can say it's "for the good of the game"

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yes, that's an interesting point, I never noticed that. I'm no VAT Expert but I wonder if the deferred income includes the VAT until the tax point is reached when the new season kicks off? If that's the case then the deferred income number needs to be reduced by 20% to enable an accurate comparison to the gate income number. £4m taken in advance, with total receipts of £6m. That makes more sense. Not sure though.

The same numbers aren't split out in HFC accounts so difficult for us to make an exact comparison using our own numbers.

Edit - if anyone knows if the above VAT point is correct, it would be good to know. If HMFC had taken in £5m of advance season ticket money (including VAT £1m), shown this in deferred income, but left only £0.6m in cash, thus having spent £0.4m of their VAT cash already, before accounting for it to HMRC, then perhaps they are even more of a basket case than we ever thought.

Deferred income will be net of VAT.

The VAT will be shown in the VAT creditor.

[Col2]

So Hearts are one of the three clubs needed to vote for a general meeting.

So Budge has decided the Deloitte independent investigation isn’t enough and doesn’t meet her super high standards even though she said recently she wasn’t after the removal of SPFL Doncaster and co.

Are we the to assume Budge is so desperate that she is willing to de-rail the motion that got 83% approval and willing to run up costs of 000s for QC (for SPFL which is funded by clubs)? The same Budge that is trying to show horn a reconstruction through that will reduce the price payments per top flight club by c15%?

So is this ALL about:-

- Rangers trying to get a null and void or no champion outcome and as a minimum a tainted title?
- Hearts doing everything they can morally right or not to delay relegation confirmation and hope a new proposal and vote comes through that wipes out the fact that they were the worst team in the league all season?

[zelda]

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That would seem to be the reasonable definition of clause 12.

Dr Budge is using it to abdicate Hearts from its responsibility of paying agreed contract salaries.

Hopefully, some of the players will challenge Hearts cost cutting on the back of a pandemic in either court or a tribunal.

Isn't she just. I wouldn't like to think she'll get away with it. It is THEM tho.

[zelda]

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A deferment ultimately requires payment of the wages due during the period of deferment. A suspension doesn't. I agree with you about termination though.

But if the time suspended is added onto the contract then the wages will be paid. eg if a 2 year deal stretches to 2 years 2 months with 2 months suspended, surely the player will still end up with 2 years pay?

[007]

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So, if the following conditions are met, 4 no's are required.
1. The money distribution model for the top 12 clubs does not change
2. The number of teams within the SPFL remains at 42.

Potentially they could come up with that in a 14 X 3 setup. Really stiffs brora and kelty though, so I don't understand how Ann can say it's "for the good of the game"

Sure I saw, or heard, a week or so ago changing the number of teams in the Premiership needed 11-1.

[cocteautwin]

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Deferred income will be net of VAT.

The VAT will be shown in the VAT creditor.

OK, thanks. I wonder what else might be in the Deferred Income number? As per Brog, it does seem high compared to their annual gate receipts.

[CropleyWasGod]

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OK, thanks. I wonder what else might be in the Deferred Income number? As per Brog, it does seem high compared to their annual gate receipts.

Grants towards the new stand?

See Note 1.14

[Greenworld]

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Sure I saw, or heard, a week or so ago changing the number of teams in the Premiership needed 11-1.

It does

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[Heisenberg]

Oh dear

https://t.co/ZPwvYgIp7w?amp=1

[cocteautwin]

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Deferred income will be net of VAT.

The VAT will be shown in the VAT creditor.

Actually, would the VAT be shown as part of Other taxation and Social Security? That number is only £0.6m which seems low if the VAT is in there and they've taken £5m of gross season ticket sales. Might depend on what their output VAT is although we wouldn't expect that to be too high in the close season. One would also expect the tax number to be higher than £0.6m if VAT, PAYE, Social Security etc is in there. The low Tax creditor number might suggest that the Gross Season ticket number is shown in Deferred Income. Another HMFC Accounting mystery on Hibs.net!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Actually, would the VAT be shown as part of Other taxation and Social Security? That number is only £0.6m which seems low if the VAT is in there and they've taken £5m of gross season ticket sales. Might depend on what their output VAT is although we wouldn't expect that to be too high in the close season. One would also expect the tax number to be higher than £0.6m if VAT, PAYE, Social Security etc is in there. The low Tax creditor number might suggest that the Gross Season ticket number is shown in Deferred Income. Another HMFC Accounting mystery on Hibs.net!

That might be the case if you're assuming that all of the Deferred Income is ST sales. But I thought you were saying that it isn't.

[Kaiser1962]

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Sure I saw, or heard, a week or so ago changing the number of teams in the Premiership needed 11-1.

I think what they seemed to be doing was not to change the prize money per place, then it would require a 9-3 majority in favour. In order to get that place 13 and 14 would recieve the same as the current 1 + 2 in the Championship recieves currently and so on down the places. I would highlight the "I think" part....

[007]

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Oh dear

https://t.co/ZPwvYgIp7w?amp=1

Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.

[Keith_M]

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Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.

Would be useful to see a list of what they paid for various players they're now trying to dump.

I think they might regret letting some of them leave for nothing.

[greenginger]

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I think what they seemed to be doing was not to change the prize money per place, then it would require a 9-3 majority in favour. In order to get that place 13 and 14 would recieve the same as the current 1 + 2 in the Championship recieves currently and so on down the places. I would highlight the "I think" part....

So, they are asking two teams to play in the premier league, pay premier league wages, appear on t v in premier league live matches, and then accept championship money. ?

[Smartie]

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Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.

I was wondering if that probably wasn't what every club would want to have happen with their players at the moment? Is the transfer value of any squad of players at the moment higher than their wage liability?

What's the point of having a squad of players if you're not going to play any football any time soon?

Looking at the number of players still in contract at their clubs beyond this season, is it not the case that the clubs with the least players probably stand the best chance of being able to survive a sustained period without income?

I mean - Berra, Damour, Naismith, Boyce - they're on big bucks for what they realistically contribute (especially towards a football club who cannot play football games). If they came to you and threatened to walk away, would you not hold the door open and usher them out with a huge smile?

(Without wishing to condone the treatment of the players, which I think is disgraceful from Hearts. I just question, from the players' point of view, the wisdom of threatening Hearts with the very thing they probably want to happen?)

[RossScott1991]

Fancy abit of a laugh on a Monday. Was looking to see if anyone could source me the thread on jamboskickback that would have covered our Scottish cup final win. Would love to read the replies to moment David Gray scores, anyone got that thread to hand😂

[RossScott1991]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index...-final-thread/

Never mind found it😂

[brog]

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That might be the case if you're assuming that all of the Deferred Income is ST sales. But I thought you were saying that it isn't.

I suspect the VAT is included in the Deferred Income figure of £5m, which per a note in their accounts is mostly season tickets. The net figure would therefore be about £4.2m. That explains the disparity between the deferred figure & the final gates receipt total of £6m but the actual # still seems high. In 2018 they sold 10k by 3 May & 13k by 3 August. In 2019 they had sold 10.5k by 3 June. If we're extremely generous let's say they sold 13k by end June, that works out at £385 per ticket which seems high. Anyway, given they have no idea what division they'll be in next season I don't see them hitting those numbers in next 2 months.

[The 90+2]

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Reasons I want Hearts to stay up:

1. Nope, there are no reasons.

😁

[brog]

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https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index...-final-thread/

Never mind found it😂

Brilliant!! I was looking for this as well. Why is it not in The Vault?

[MrSmith]

Does the Kaunas Cowboy still own a percentage of the Jumbos?

[nonshinyfinish]

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https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index...-final-thread/

Never mind found it😂

If anyone wants to jump to the good bit, our equaliser is on page 16.

[RossScott1991]

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If anyone wants to jump to the good bit, our equaliser is on page 16.

Thoroughly entertaining read this, have never seen it before. Complete meltdown about Robbie Neilson. The reaction to when rangers go 2.1 compared to next couple pages at 2.2 is brillaint hahaha

[Joe6-2]

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Every premiership club losing money is universally popular? Must be some good drugs floating about Gorgie these days.


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There’s something floating about Gorgie!

[RossScott1991]

“Atleast with them being in the lower league we won’t have to put up with them gloating at a game”

my favourite comment on that cup final thread. Now I really need to try find the thread when we knocked them out the next again season as a lower league team!