The generic Hearts thread

[Scotty Leither]

The latest witterings from Budge - incidentally styled as the CHAIRMAN's update on their website (they can't even get that incontrovertible fact right) states that: "As a fan-owned club we're unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt which the club might not be in a position to honour..." is a shameless attempt to load the guilt onto the players for their current plight.

It also sets up another admin event if the SPFL board finally get this long-drawn out saga concluded this week, and they do drop a league.

Cue then the FoH being painted as the "new saviours" of HMFC mark 3 as they shed another mountain of debt and are hailed by English, Stewart and co as the model for everyone to follow.

It's so transparent it's laughable.

[DaveF]

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At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

Brilliant 😁

[Keith_M]

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The latest witterings from Budge - incidentally styled as the CHAIRMAN's update on their website (they can't even get that incontrovertible fact right) states that: "As a fan-owned club we're unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt which the club might not be in a position to honour..." is a shameless attempt to load the guilt onto the players for their current plight.

It also sets up another admin event if the SPFL board finally get this long-drawn out saga concluded this week, and they do drop a league.

Cue then the FoH being painted as the "new saviours" of HMFC mark 3 as they shed another mountain of debt and are hailed by English, Stewart and co as the model for everyone to follow.

It's so transparent it's laughable.

They're still rabbiting on about being fan-owned ...... but they're still NOT fan-owned.


You're right about the rest, they have no shame whatsoever.

[Frankhfc]

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This is the bit that I’d like to know more about. Surely they can’t suspend some players wages but still pay others. If they’re going to invoke the article 12 it has to be across the board.

This would definitely be included as part of any action against clause 12. Players shouldn't be forced into accepting wage cuts upon the threat of being paid no wages at all. Its almost certain it will be tested in court/tribunal, imo, if Budge carries out her threats.

[Frankhfc]

I see Budge is now appearing to state that the proposed enforced rule of accepting wage cuts is on the basis that she can't make one rule for some and not for others, that it wouldn't be fair on those who accept the new rule of enforced wage cuts.

I doubt clause 12 was formed for clubs to act in this way. It certainly doesn't state that it does. I hope the ones who are suspended when they refuse take it further. Budge is clearly using an ambiguous clause for cost cutting and the non payment of some players only.

[CapitalGreen]

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I see Budge is now appearing to state that the proposed enforced rule of accepting wage cuts is on the basis that she can't make one rule for some and not for others, that it wouldn't be fair on those who accept the new rule of enforced wage cuts.

I doubt clause 12 was formed for clubs to act in this way. It certainly doesn't state that it does. I hope the ones who are suspended when they refuse take it further. Budge is clearly using an ambiguous clause for cost cutting and the non payment of some players only.

She also said she has no problem cutting some players wages because she had to pay those players when they were injured 😳

[Bostonhibby]

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She also said she has no problem cutting some players wages because she had to pay those players when they were injured

She's Trump like making it up as she goes along now, in a couple of weeks she'll be saying she always favoured relegating the team at the bottom of the league.

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[greenginger]

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I see Budge is now appearing to state that the proposed enforced rule of accepting wage cuts is on the basis that she can't make one rule for some and not for others, that it wouldn't be fair on those who accept the new rule of enforced wage cuts.

I doubt clause 12 was formed for clubs to act in this way. It certainly doesn't state that it does. I hope the ones who are suspended when they refuse take it further. Budge is clearly using an ambiguous clause for cost cutting and the non payment of some players only.

She has a lawyer and three accountants on her board so she should not be short of professional advice. Does she not listen or do they not speak ?

[Aldo]

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She has a lawyer and three accountants on her board so she should not be short of professional advice. Does she not listen or do they not speak ?

I really do think that she’s of the opinion she can say what she wants because she’s the Chairwoman of them.

The air of superiority hangs over her.

The problem is she cannot remember what she said 30 seconds after it was spouted and has contradicted herself on numerous occasions, making her look stupid and inept.

Cannot wait for wages day and how this next episode is going to pan out!


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[Liberal Hibby]

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Come on, this is Hearts we're talking about. It wouldn't be like them to exaggerate, would it?







This is the seating diagram and basically any seats in the purple sections will cost £450.... to watch them play Alloa, Arbroath, Ayr United, etc

Why do they put 'family' in quote marks - it's weird. Is it not their family stand?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

This is the man ....
... who’s a Jambo

https://youtu.be/2wBUYG6_YMI

[Frankhfc]

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She also said she has no problem cutting some players wages because she had to pay those players when they were injured 😳

Could certainly form part of a narrative for cost cutting, however, it would, imo, be irrelevant as per clause 12.

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She has a lawyer and three accountants on her board so she should not be short of professional advice. Does she not listen or do they not speak ?

It wouldn't appear so. I think she spouts stuff that the hearts fans want to hear and for fandangos like Tom English to fawn over her.

[Just Alf]

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Agreed. Clause 12 is ambiguous. It clearly lacks definition and guidance. In the event a club refuses to pay a players salary based on clause 12, my instinct is that clause 12 will fail if it is tested in court. The agreed deferral of wages appears to be not only the safe route to go down, but, that it is also the morally correct one.

I believe Clause 12 is all about clubs ending the season with the same players it started with, hence the contract being put on hold while the league's on hold. It was simply intended to ensure teams would have all their players until season end, Any players signed between the suspension and the league restarting aren't eligible to play until the new season kicks off. It wasn't expected there would ever be a situation this long or that any team would try to bump players of their wages during the 'down time'

So I've been told anyways...

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[Frankhfc]

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I believe Clause 12 is all about clubs ending the season with the same players it started with, hence the contract being put on hold while the league's on hold. It was simply intended to ensure teams would have all their players until season end, Any players signed between the suspension and the league restarting aren't eligible to play until the new season kicks off. It wasn't expected there would ever be a situation this long or that any team would try to bump players of their wages during the 'down time'

So I've been told anyways...

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Certainly sounds plausible. Would explain the simplicity of it. Definitely doesn't state it should be used in conjunction of cost reducing contract alterations for some and no wages for others as Dr Budge is. I really hope its tested in a legal capacity.

[007]

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At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[Kojock]

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They're still rabbiting on about being fan-owned ...... but they're still NOT fan-owned.


You're right about the rest, they have no shame whatsoever.

I have to disagree, Budgie is a Hear7s fan and owns them so technically they are fan owned 😂

[gaz1875]

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I believe Clause 12 is all about clubs ending the season with the same players it started with, hence the contract being put on hold while the league's on hold. It was simply intended to ensure teams would have all their players until season end, Any players signed between the suspension and the league restarting aren't eligible to play until the new season kicks off. It wasn't expected there would ever be a situation this long or that any team would try to bump players of their wages during the 'down time'

So I've been told anyways...

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Hertz possibly pushed for clause 12 to be inserted just in case they had world war 3 to win single handed

[lapsedhibee]

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At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

I don't really get that. The author is suggesting that Hearts stiffed this person and that person, but I don't think I've never seen any sort of list naming all the people that Hearts owed money to published. Does such a list exist, with names and how much money was owed to each?

[Just Alf]

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Hertz possibly pushed for clause 12 to be inserted just in case they had world war 3 to win single handed

Think you've just nailed it.

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[Waxy]

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I don't really get that. The author is suggesting that Hearts stiffed this person and that person, but I don't think I've never seen any sort of list naming all the people that Hearts owed money to published. Does such a list exist, with names and how much money was owed to each?

I’d like to see that too.

[jacomo]

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I have to disagree, Budgie is a Hear7s fan and owns them so technically they are fan owned 😂

Ok cool. But this means most clubs in Scotland are fan owned.

[HoboHarry]

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I don't really get that. The author is suggesting that Hearts stiffed this person and that person, but I don't think I've never seen any sort of list naming all the people that Hearts owed money to published. Does such a list exist, with names and how much money was owed to each?

Is this what you are looking for?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...s-full-1566016

[zelda]

If clause 12 is applied and the players contract is suspended until football is resumed, would that not mean they will resume their pay when the football starts again ? ie a deferment? Surely it cannot be used to terminate a contract without compensation?

[high bee]

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Hearts Finally Apologise
@ApologyHearts
·
40m
AB Ukio Bankas. Hmmm. Tricky one this. On the one hand Vlad stole from his own bank and owed them £15,488,290 causing the bank to go bust and possibly thousands of people to lose their jobs/pensions. On the other hand we won two cups, so.... swings and roundabouts. #naeharmdone

Hahaha comedy gold.

[Bostonhibby]

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I’d like to see that too.

It should be okay to share it, it's Hearts own list, they put it together themselves but I don't think they took out a copyright or anything on it, it's not as if they'll be doing a documentary or anything like that.

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[spike220]

Reasons I want hearts to stay up:

1.It will help us financially.
2.I would miss the derby.
3.It also another thing to remind them of we could even make up a wee song about it.

[HoboHarry]

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Reasons I want hearts to stay up:

1.It will help us financially.
2.I would miss the derby.
3.It also another thing to remind them of we could even make up a wee song about it.

Reasons I want Hearts to stay up:

1. Nope, there are no reasons.

[Frankhfc]

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If clause 12 is applied and the players contract is suspended until football is resumed, would that not mean they will resume their pay when the football starts again ? ie a deferment? Surely it cannot be used to terminate a contract without compensation?

That would seem to be the reasonable definition of clause 12.

Dr Budge is using it to abdicate Hearts from its responsibility of paying agreed contract salaries.

Hopefully, some of the players will challenge Hearts cost cutting on the back of a pandemic in either court or a tribunal.

[cocteautwin]

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Thanks, just saw after I posted in response to Cav & GG. I understand your thinking but something doesn't add up, see my comments above, given total gate income was under £6m

Yes, that's an interesting point, I never noticed that. I'm no VAT Expert but I wonder if the deferred income includes the VAT until the tax point is reached when the new season kicks off? If that's the case then the deferred income number needs to be reduced by 20% to enable an accurate comparison to the gate income number. £4m taken in advance, with total receipts of £6m. That makes more sense. Not sure though.

The same numbers aren't split out in HFC accounts so difficult for us to make an exact comparison using our own numbers.

Edit - if anyone knows if the above VAT point is correct, it would be good to know. If HMFC had taken in £5m of advance season ticket money (including VAT £1m), shown this in deferred income, but left only £0.6m in cash, thus having spent £0.4m of their VAT cash already, before accounting for it to HMRC, then perhaps they are even more of a basket case than we ever thought.

[MacGruber]

Some Jambos starting to claim victory that a 14-14-14 reconstruction is universally popular and has the support required already.

Doubt it has but also have never had any doubt that they will escape this one way or the other. It's what cockroaches do.