The generic Hearts thread

[munchar]

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Is it not the case that the benefactor flow has stopped - and that’s why they’re toiling so badly?

But why were they throwing money at them anyway? Surely they’re business people, not lottery winners giving to a club they support?

[tamig]

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But why were they throwing money at them anyway? Surely they’re business people, not lottery winners giving to a club they support?

Who knows bud? A lot of rich folk do daft things with their dosh.

[cocteautwin]

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And they have already borrowed circa 900k if i remember correctly from 1 million borrowing pot!

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That £1m isn’t a credit line from an external financial institution but just a loan “facility” made up by Budge herself. She did previously try to dress it up as some borrowing that they had secured but it was just a directors loan from the Bank of Ann Budge.

[Peevemor]

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It's not just debt that can tip you into admin. The key is cash flow. As long as you can continue to meet your current liabilities you can bump along but when the income dries up as it has at HMFC and you cannot meet your £1.4m monthly commitments with your £140k bung from FoH you have a gap which unless say a player or 20 agrees to defer receipt of their payment the band in the background starts playing "Swanney"...as in yer up it.

Administration is often triggered by institutional creditors, eg. HMRC - either NI/PAYE or VAT.

After wages these are often the biggest payments that businesses have to make and if you start to use their money for other things you can only juggle for so long before you go tits up.

They normally don't have much sympathy for regular/repeat offenders either.

[whiskyhibby]

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As simple minded, drug-addled caravan dwellers, we can’t hope to understand Budge’s genius, but thankfully the FOH statement has clarified things:

1. The Hearts business plan is to try not to go bust during this pandemic
2. FOH agree that it’s a good idea not to go bust.

With such deceptively simple yet profound wisdom, it’s no surprise that Budge is known worldwide as the Sage of Midlothian.

[H18 SFR]

Hearts won't go into administration, their fans would ultimately bail them out.

Through FoH, one way or another they would be bailed out, whether that included Budge leaving immediately etc I don't know but there is no way they will go into admin.

[Skol]

They are talking in a wAy that suggests they are preparing by for administration. Making sure they don’t pass football debt to the new owners. Wouldn’t surprise me if those new owners are FOG who find themselves having shed liability for a load of unpaid bills.

What a way to run your business.

[jacomo]

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Administration is often triggered by institutional creditors, eg. HMRC - either NI/PAYE or VAT.

After wages these are often the biggest payments that businesses have to make and if you start to use their money for other things you can only juggle for so long before you go tits up.

They normally don't have much sympathy for regular/repeat offenders either.

Any football club in financial difficulties will get extraordinary leniency during this crisis.

I can’t see HMRC pressing the button.

[cocteautwin]

April/May/June is that time of the year when football clubs have their highest cash balances of the year (due to season ticket sales), and this is the sole reason why HMFC aren't heading to Administration any time in the next 3 months. They'll likely be bringing in close to £1m every fortnight for the next 8 weeks. If the anonymous donor really has stopped contributing then what is happening now is a tasteless attempt by HMFC to reposition their spending levels in preparation for the new season, likely to be in the Championship. They really do need a clear out to remove the high earners and excessive costs, and what better time to do it than under cover of a worldwide corona virus crisis.

The fun and games begin at the start of the new season when they find, once again, that they've spent most of their advance season ticket money to see them through to the end of the current season.

[007]

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Totally reading between the lines here. But football debt is the only debt that a ****ed up basket case like hearts needs to pay off if they go into administration. As has been seen before by clubs, hearts, Motherwell, Dundee and the Hun they can just jettison the majority of the other debt by paying pennies in the pound to get rid of it. I wonder is she is teeing them up for admin 2? By having admin 2 with no/minimal football debt the foundation of erses could take over their disgrace if a club for relatively small amounts. As Budget herself did
Edit. I should say that I am no financial wizard and can barely manage a kitty when out on the lash so take this as the musings of someone who would be happy to see them languishing in the lowland league for years!!!

If Admin 2 happens is the Administrator not duty bound to listen to offers and go with what's best for the creditors which could be to sell to the Barnsley guy? What happens to the contact Budge has with FoH to transfer ownership to them? Could an insolvency event render it null and void?

Haven't been following it too closely but what is the benefit to either Budge or Hearts to hold off on transferring ownership when, as I understand it, all conditions have been met? Why delay?

[04Sauzee]

Have Hearts updated their fans on season ticket sales? They used to announce sales every other day when they were outselling Hibs

[HFC93]

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Hearts won't go into administration, their fans would ultimately bail them out.

Through FoH, one way or another they would be bailed out, whether that included Budge leaving immediately etc I don't know but there is no way they will go into admin.

I would be interested in knowing how many folk are contributing to FOH. At it's peak it was around 8,000 I think, but does anyone know what the current number is?

[Keith_M]

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Have Hearts updated their fans on season ticket sales? They used to announce sales every other day when they were outselling Hibs

Anybody that wants to buy a Season Ticket in their 'Platinum' sections will have to pay £450... to watch them play Championship teams.

That's eighteen home games, none of which are Class A, working out an average price of £25 per game (if they actually go to every game)

[Bostonhibby]

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Anybody that wants to buy a Season Ticket in their 'Platinum' sections will have to pay £450... to watch them play Championship teams.

That's eighteen home games, none of which are Class A, working out an average price of £25 per game (if they actually go to every game)

Platinum?

I thought they'd bought a load of recycled steel from a scrap dealer in Bolton?



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[Keith_M]

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Platinum?

I thought they'd bought a load of recycled steel from a scrap dealer in Bolton?

Come on, this is Hearts we're talking about. It wouldn't be like them to exaggerate, would it?







This is the seating diagram and basically any seats in the purple sections will cost £450.... to watch them play Alloa, Arbroath, Ayr United, etc

[Waxy]

When hearts are relegated on Monday, Arbroath will be above them in the league already on alphabetical order. 2nd best maroon team in Scotland.

[04Sauzee]

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Come on, this is Hearts we're talking about. It wouldn't be like them to exaggerate, would it?







This is the seating diagram and basically any seats in the purple sections will cost £450.... to watch them play Alloa, Arbroath, Ayr United, etc

That's a fair bit of purple seats

[Glory Lurker]

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When hearts are relegated on Monday, Arbroath will be above them in the league already on alphabetical order. 2nd best maroon team in Scotland.

Stenhousemuir are raging at that comment!

[jacomo]

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Does this not depend upon the stance our FM takes regarding bail-outs/handouts/helping hands from Westminster and it's bodies?

Just asking because Scottish football must be low on their priorities? Happy to be educated

Directive from UK government is that banks and financial institutions should take a sympathetic view on any business in financial difficulties - this will hold true for HMRC as well.

I said weeks ago that one of the risks of this current situation is that badly run businesses will use Covid 19 as an excuse to cover their own failings. Hearts are largely responsible for their own problems, but I sill think that HMRC won’t want to do anything that could be viewed as harming a football club during this crisis.

[brog]

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April/May/June is that time of the year when football clubs have their highest cash balances of the year (due to season ticket sales), and this is the sole reason why HMFC aren't heading to Administration any time in the next 3 months. They'll likely be bringing in close to £1m every fortnight for the next 8 weeks. If the anonymous donor really has stopped contributing then what is happening now is a tasteless attempt by HMFC to reposition their spending levels in preparation for the new season, likely to be in the Championship. They really do need a clear out to remove the high earners and excessive costs, and what better time to do it than under cover of a worldwide corona virus crisis.

The fun and games begin at the start of the new season when they find, once again, that they've spent most of their advance season ticket money to see them through to the end of the current season.

I think you're way over estimating their income here. £4m =16k seasons at £250 a time. They'll be lucky to get half of that number & I would expect quite a few to be on an instalment plan. They would bite your hand off for £2m over the next 2 or 3 months.

[JohnMcM]

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Directive from UK government is that banks and financial institutions should take a sympathetic view on any business in financial difficulties - this will hold true for HMRC as well.

I said weeks ago that one of the risks of this current situation is that badly run businesses will use Covid 19 as an excuse to cover their own failings. Hearts are largely responsible for their own problems, but I sill think that HMRC won’t want to do anything that could be viewed as harming a football club during this crisis.

That makes sense to me. Thanks. I'm fairly ignorant of things fiscal and financial.

[brog]

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Directive from UK government is that banks and financial institutions should take a sympathetic view on any business in financial difficulties - this will hold true for HMRC as well.

I said weeks ago that one of the risks of this current situation is that badly run businesses will use Covid 19 as an excuse to cover their own failings. Hearts are largely responsible for their own problems, but I sill think that HMRC won’t want to do anything that could be viewed as harming a football club during this crisis.

There's a big gap between concept & reality however. Last I saw, a few days ago, it was a tiny % of those who had expressed an interest who had received a loan. Banks were also looking for personal guarantees, ie the loanee absorbs the risk. I can't see Budge doing that.

[Del Boy]

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When hearts are relegated on Monday, Arbroath will be above them in the league already on alphabetical order. 2nd best maroon team in Scotland.

Maybe missed it, but why Monday?

[jacomo]

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There's a big gap between concept & reality however. Last I saw, a few days ago, it was a tiny % of those who had expressed an interest who had received a loan. Banks were also looking for personal guarantees, ie the loanee absorbs the risk. I can't see Budge doing that.

I take your point, but i was talking about UK government mainly... I think HMRC’s previous hard ball stance has gone for now, unless they have very solid evidence that a company is deliberately defrauding the Treasury.

[dchibs]

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Anybody that wants to buy a Season Ticket in their 'Platinum' sections will have to pay £450... to watch them play Championship teams.

That's eighteen home games, none of which are Class A, working out an average price of £25 per game (if they actually go to every game)

How much do they charge for the rusty part of their unfinished stand?

[tamig]

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I would be interested in knowing how many folk are contributing to FOH. At it's peak it was around 8,000 I think, but does anyone know what the current number is?

They are holding up well and think there are still in excess of 7000 contributors.

[FilipinoHibs]

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Maybe missed it, but why Monday?

SPFL board meeting.

[Squealing pig]

I hope this documentary getting filmed is key work because I’ve ran out of things to watch and can’t wait for it

[G B Young]

I've kind of lost track of the wages saga at Hearts. Why are they imposing a take it or leave it wage cut instead of coming to a deferral agreement like Hibs seemed to do without much fuss?

[HoboHarry]

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I've kind of lost track of the wages saga at Hearts. Why are they imposing a take it or leave it wage cut instead of coming to a deferral agreement like Hibs seemed to do without much fuss?

Perhaps they don't have the cash to pay the bill in full when it falls due?