The generic Hearts thread

[Jones28]

Forth 1 reporting a £3 million funding gap for hearts of the resolution is extended. Apologies if this has been covered, I’ve been in a chocolate and day drinking induced bubble for 3 days.

[Caversham Green]

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The crash might have been used as a good excuse to bail after seeing what mountain of garbage his/her money has been spent on. I'd be raging if I gave the best part of £12-15m (including estimate for 19/20) and saw them crashing in to the Championship. If the benefactor has seriously disappeared for good it means HMFC are going to have an interesting funding gap to bridge in the next 15 months. We might even see HMFC having to live with just the cash generated from football operations for the first time in 30 years.

If you have access to their last set of accounts it's worth looking at Note 1.2. This indicates that they were absolutely dependent on funds coming in from Benny, Budge and FOH just to survive.

[Aldo]

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Forth 1 reporting a £3 million funding gap for hearts of the resolution is extended. Apologies if this has been covered, I’ve been in a chocolate and day drinking induced bubble for 3 days.

So they don’t have enough money to last the season. £3million. Cheating ****ers at it again (we all knew). Where’s Benny Factor when you need him/her.

Self sufficient my arse!

Another story fed to media looking for sympathy!


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[Rumble de Thump]

Wasn't there a story a while ago about Budge saying she wasn't even going to think about planning for possible relagation until a certain point this year. Has she not prepared for it at all?

[Aldo]

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If you have access to their last set of accounts it's worth looking at Note 1.2. This indicates that they were absolutely dependent on funds coming in from Benny, Budge and FOH just to survive.

So in a word or two, they are not self sufficient and are spending well outwith their means. This latest £3 million funding gap surely proves this?

Wonder if anyone in the media will actually ask the question??


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[Col2]

Budge saying £3m hit if they go down.

Benefactors must equal c £2-3m per year so that’s in addition.

FOH will take a hit as they won’t get the bounce they hit last time tern they walked away from £30m+ debt.

They still have big fixed and committed to costs.

Add in Covid-19 which is hitting everyone.

I am not sure they would make it through a year in the championship. I used to joke about administration 2 but it feel more and more likely. They could be down for a few years.

[cocteautwin]

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If you have access to their last set of accounts it's worth looking at Note 1.2. This indicates that they were absolutely dependent on funds coming in from Benny, Budge and FOH just to survive.

It's only 10 weeks or so until their next accounting date. Will be interesting to see if the Auditor has much to say about their going concern basis of accounts preparation.

[FilipinoHibs]

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Budge saying £3m hit if they go down.

Benefactors must equal c £2-3m per year so that’s in addition.

FOH will take a hit as they won’t get the bounce they hit last time tern they walked away from £30m+ debt.

They still have big fixed and committed to costs.

Add in Covid-19 which is hitting everyone.

I am not sure they would make it through a year in the championship. I used to joke about administration 2 but it feel more and more likely. They could be down for a few years.

Sad is it not

[Caversham Green]

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So in a word or two, they are not self sufficient and are spending well outwith their means. This latest £3 million funding gap surely proves this?

Wonder if anyone in the media will actually ask the question??


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Yep. I can't cut & paste the note, but it says they've done cashflow projections to June 2021 which include 'continued growth' from the features of the new stand that were already in operation, new income from the Skyline Lounge, a commitment to future donations from Benny, the continuation of the £1m loan facility, continued financial support from Bidco (separate from the loan) and continued support from FOH.

I suspect those first two would have been optimistic but not beyond the realms of possibility and Budge's recent behaviour suggests she's reluctant to carry on funding them. The rest can only be guessed at, but it's clear why they're not in a happy place right now.

And yes, I know that was more than a word or two.

[Caversham Green]

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It's only 10 weeks or so until their next accounting date. Will be interesting to see if the Auditor has much to say about their going concern basis of accounts preparation.

TBH I'm a bit surprised the auditor's report didn't at least draw attention to that note. However I've been out of the game for a long time now and the structure of reports and attitudes of auditors seem to have changed quite a bit over the years.

[Greenworld]

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Poster on here who knows Stuart Wallace (chair FOH). Says benefactor has gone - taken hit from stock market crash and Hearts well down the list of the beneficiaries of his donations. This might not be the real reason they can't be relied on but they have gone.

Would make sense with an approx 30% hit in pension funds at its worse its a sore one ,i know it will recover in time but no spare cash for hearts just now

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[FilipinoHibs]

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Yep. I can't cut & paste the note, but it says they've done cashflow projections to June 2021 which include 'continued growth' from the features of the new stand that were already in operation, new income from the Skyline Lounge, a commitment to future donations from Benny, the continuation of the £1m loan facility, continued financial support from Bidco (separate from the loan) and continued support from FOH.

I suspect those first two would have been optimistic but not beyond the realms of possibility and Budge's recent behaviour suggests she's reluctant to carry on funding them. The rest can only be guessed at, but it's clear why they're not in a happy place right now.

And yes, I know that was more than a word or two.

1.2 Going concernThe directors have prepared cash flow projections through to 30 June 2021. The projections include:• Continued growth in revenue streams and commercial sources of income from the operation of thenew function suite capacity, the supporters’ bar and the shop in the main stand;• The realisation of new revenue streams from the new Skyline Lounge;• Donations of £500k received in the first quarter of season 2019/2020 and commitment to futurefunding;• The availability of the extended £1m loan facility, of which £0.9m has already been drawn down;• The availability of continued financial support from Bidco (1874) Limited; and• The continued support of the Foundation of Hearts, contributing £0.1m per month to acquireparticipation rights in the Bidco (1874) Limited senior loan.The projections indicate that the company should remain cash positive during the period they cover. Whilst thecompany is not wholly dependent on the cash inflows from the Foundation of Hearts to continue as a goingconcern, the Foundation’s acquisition of participation rights in the Bidco senior loan, continues to be a vitalelement of Club funding.Having reviewed the cash flow projections, and in light of the continued close relationship between the Club’sboard of directors and the Foundation of Hearts, the directors believe that the company has the ability tocontinue as a going concern for the foreseeable future.The directors have concluded that it is appropriate for the accounts to be prep

[Greenworld]

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The way I see this panning out there are 3 likely outcomes: -
1. The league eventually restarts from its current position.
2. The league is declared complete and the current positions are final.
3. The leagues are reconstructed.

I think 1 will only happen if there is no more football until January ( pre-season would almost bring us to a year since we stopped and easy to restart from there) - we can laugh at Hearts being bottom of the table for a record breaking time and there’s still a likelihood that they won’t beat the drop.

For 2 then we get to laugh at Hearts and they will forever have a sense of injustice to make it even funnier.

For 3 we can forever laugh at Hearts for only avoiding the drop through reconstruction which we will no doubt remind them of at every opportunity.

Whatever the outcome we get to laugh at them for years to come, although I do concede that some outcomes would be funnier than others.

So, in summary, relax and just keep laughing at them

2 final answer

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[Greenworld]

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The article lost any integrity for me in the first para. A Yes vote by ICT would have delivered cash and probably promotion back to the premier. How does that second bit work?

It does not however the crux of it does add up. Interesting to see bill leckie writing about Scott Gardiner this morning not quite the same but mounting suspicion on his role. I remember him saying on sportsound " i sat for ages in an empty stadium on my own" i bet he did beads of sweat rolling down his face as the master plan fell apart .

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[Greenworld]

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Yep. I can't cut & paste the note, but it says they've done cashflow projections to June 2021 which include 'continued growth' from the features of the new stand that were already in operation, new income from the Skyline Lounge, a commitment to future donations from Benny, the continuation of the £1m loan facility, continued financial support from Bidco (separate from the loan) and continued support from FOH.

I suspect those first two would have been optimistic but not beyond the realms of possibility and Budge's recent behaviour suggests she's reluctant to carry on funding them. The rest can only be guessed at, but it's clear why they're not in a happy place right now.

And yes, I know that was more than a word or two.

I see from it they have already drawn down 900k from that loan facility

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[jacomo]

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Poster on here who knows Stuart Wallace (chair FOH). Says benefactor has gone - taken hit from stock market crash and Hearts well down the list of the beneficiaries of his donations. This might not be the real reason they can't be relied on but they have gone.

Hmm... I think there is rampant gossip and rumours on here as much as anywhere else. The benefactor remains unknown, and I am disinclined to believe folk who claim to know their detailed financial position.

[FilipinoHibs]

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Hmm... I think there is rampant gossip and rumours on here as much as anywhere else. The benefactor remains unknown, and I am disinclined to believe folk who claim to know their detailed financial position.

I agree, probably designed to put people off the trail of who the mysterious benefactor is. But I think who ever it is, the money has dried up.

[JimBHibees]

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Hmm... I think there is rampant gossip and rumours on here as much as anywhere else. The benefactor remains unknown, and I am disinclined to believe folk who claim to know their detailed financial position.

Do they even exist? Personally find it very strange when there were obvious concerns around owners and Board members that someone is able to remain totally anonymous yet clearly have a huge influence on one of our biggest clubs?

[jacomo]

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I agree, probably designed to put people off the trail of who the mysterious benefactor is. But I think who ever it is, the money has dried up.

Again... how would you know?

[FilipinoHibs]

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Again... how would you know?

I don't know but it is an opinion given their present financial plight.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I have a lot of sympathy for a team being unfairly relegated and if a wee reconstruction helps then lets go for a Championship of 12. It saves Partick, it promotes Raith and Falkirk and it saves Stranraer whilst promoting the top 3 in L2 and allows Brora and Kelty into the SPFL.

Partick change their vote. Sorted...oh and Hertz still get relegated

[James Stephen]

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I agree, probably designed to put people off the trail of who the mysterious benefactor is. But I think who ever it is, the money has dried up.

To be fair to the benefactor, my impression was that they were helping to bankroll the new stand, in the hope it would provide something tangible and revenue generating. Much like Farmer did with Hibs.

I think it seems as though they were happy to give to a tangible project for the future, but providing cash to fall into the bottomless pit of ongoing funding was not their intention - again not unlike Farmer with us.

Obviously financial trouble will not help, with wealth of many being hit quite hard.

[brog]

The last game played so far in the SPFL Prem was St M 1-0 Hearts on 11 March. If that score had been reversed then our needy neighbours would have been 11th on goals scored! Given that scenario you can pretty much guarantee that last Friday, the first Yes vote received would have been from Gorgie!! Integrity & fairness would have joined their delayed administration & charity pilfering in the Gorgie Hall of Shame.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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To be fair to the benefactor, my impression was that they were helping to bankroll the new stand, in the hope it would provide something tangible and revenue generating. Much like Farmer did with Hibs.

I think it seems as though they were happy to give to a tangible project for the future, but providing cash to fall into the bottomless pit of ongoing funding was not their intention - again not unlike Farmer with us.

Obviously financial trouble will not help, with wealth of many being hit quite hard.

So the league is ok with anonymous donations with unlimited caps AND tax free?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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To be fair to the benefactor, my impression was that they were helping to bankroll the new stand, in the hope it would provide something tangible and revenue generating. Much like Farmer did with Hibs.

I think it seems as though they were happy to give to a tangible project for the future, but providing cash to fall into the bottomless pit of ongoing funding was not their intention - again not unlike Farmer with us.

Obviously financial trouble will not help, with wealth of many being hit quite hard.

So the league are ok with anonymous benefactors contributing unlimited amounts on a tax free basis?

So owners don’t pump your taxed cash injections into your club - simply use a spouse, family member, close business associate and shield the tax
from HMRC.

If the case l? it would be just like Hearts to take this to the extreme...

[munchar]

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So the league is ok with anonymous donations with unlimited caps AND tax free?

Surely the benefactor has to be known to tax authorities to rule out money laundering?
What’s the deal with these donations anyway? Surely nobody would just give away millions of pounds with no return? Do they have a share of profits from income in new corporate events in stand? Why not just invest in the club and receive a return? 🤷*♂️ confused!

[FilipinoHibs]

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Surely the benefactor has to be known to tax authorities to rule out money laundering?
What’s the deal with these donations anyway? Surely nobody would just give away millions of pounds with no return? Do they have a share of profits from income in new corporate events in stand? Why not just invest in the club and receive a return? ��*♂️ confused!

As others have said the bank where the funds came from and the auditors should have done their due diligence on money laundering, taxation etc. That does mean that the money has not been passed through a family member or special purpose vehicle to avoid disclosure.

[Jack]

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Wasn't there a story a while ago about Budge saying she wasn't even going to think about planning for possible relagation until a certain point this year. Has she not prepared for it at all?

If I recall correctly she said around the time of the winter break.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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I have a lot of sympathy for a team being unfairly relegated and if a wee reconstruction helps then lets go for a Championship of 12. It saves Partick, it promotes Raith and Falkirk and it saves Stranraer whilst promoting the top 3 in L2 and allows Brora and Kelty into the SPFL.

Partick change their vote. Sorted...oh and Hertz still get relegated

Kelty can’t just be handed promotion - if the team currently below them wins all their remaining games they’d be tied and it would be down to goal difference.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Kelty can’t just be handed promotion - if the team currently below them wins all their remaining games they’d be tied and it would be down to goal difference.

If yer auntie had baws and all that, we are where we are NOW. We can only give judgement on what has happened, not what might happen.

Hibs could win every game from now on and take third place and Europe, and gain the financial rewards that that gives, but we will never know.