The generic Hearts thread

**GreenCastle** · 19-03-2020 06:41 AM

Do the Hearts players go back to full pay if / once the season resumes ?

Or when do they go back to usual rate of pay ?

Like others have said I can’t actually believe they have got themselves into a mess again - this is ONLY 1 week after games have been cancelled.

The amount of money they have spent since start of the Romanov days must be huge - anyone able to work it out ??

***JimBHibees*** · 19-03-2020 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by matty_f

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This is worth considering as well. Hibs also are in a position where we don't have income that we planned on.

We *should* be able to borrow from Ron Gordon as a last resort, however with the hammering that the stock exchanges have taken, it's very likely that he's not worth as much as he was when he bought us, do that route might not be as readily available.

Hopefully, we're in a good enough position to ride it out, might mean that we have a very lean transfer window but if we can get through that and come out the other side, we'll be well placed to kick on.

Assuming apart from the placings payments approx 1.5m for 6th or so that there would be insurance covering lost earnings for pandemic situation. Listened to sportsound and.it sounded as if clubs would have such a policy. Obviously the devil would be in the detail but what do you pay for insurance if not for situations like this. Of course the whole league debate and decision will decide when league payment comes through however it will be coming and again assume a part earlier payment would be agreed with the spfl to tide clubs over. A big issue will be many clubs including ours will depend on early season ticket purchase for next season and the current confusion will put that back however would be surprised if clubs are not putting something out about this in next few weeks to get some money in now.

***Hibs4185*** · 19-03-2020 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by matty_f

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This is worth considering as well. Hibs also are in a position where we don't have income that we planned on.

We *should* be able to borrow from Ron Gordon as a last resort, however with the hammering that the stock exchanges have taken, it's very likely that he's not worth as much as he was when he bought us, do that route might not be as readily available.

Hopefully, we're in a good enough position to ride it out, might mean that we have a very lean transfer window but if we can get through that and come out the other side, we'll be well placed to kick on.

Even if we presume the worst in terms of finance, we would still have the option of third party finance like a bank. No way hearts or rangers would be touched with a barge pole considering their well known struggles.

Id also imagine in the worst case scenarios STF might lend us a couple of million similar to the previous deal to keep us going if the *hit hits the fan.

I trust in the board, that hibs will be fine

***Hibs4185*** · 19-03-2020 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

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No-one knows what the current cash balances are at Hibs apart from the Directors and the Accounts team. The figure is only published once a year in the accounts and that is at a date when cash balances are at their peak due to season ticket money. It certainly won't be 6 months cover that's sitting in the bank at the moment but one would imagine there is enough in the tank to see us limp to the back end of the season when we can start collecting season ticket money for the new season (and there should be support from Ron Gordon if it's needed).

If we use that logic and think that hibs reserves are depleted then the rest of the clubs in that table are totally screwed.

***Kojock*** · 19-03-2020 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by 04Sauzee

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Scotlands PFA already been contacted by Hearts staff

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/spo...mpression=true

To save anyone else clicking on that rag here’s the relevant bit.

Fraser Wishart, Chief Executive of PFA Scotland, said that Hearts employees had already been in touch since the announcement.

He said: “We have been contacted by our members at Hearts but it would be inappropriate to comment until we have spoken to them in more detail and spoken with the club.”

**Onceinawhile** · 19-03-2020 07:01 AM

We are probably in a slightly better position as we've just had a Derby at home meaning we shifted 3,500 tickets at 30 a pop.

That won't stretch too far unfortunately, so we just need to hope that someone at the club has been sensible and kept a rainy day fund.

Don't take any particular joy in them asking staff to take pay cuts and ticket office staff and club shop staff getting shafted tbh.

***Bostonhibby*** · 19-03-2020 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by 90+2

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Admin would leave players jobless though.

But Hearts will want to heroically emerge from admin again and once again be a club like no other club again, so unless the rules are massively ignored they've got to pay all football debt in full to do that.

Any player that wants what Hearts were willing to pay them to play for them would have to be paid in full if Hearts wanted to play professional football again.

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***jacomo*** · 19-03-2020 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Jim44

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The height of delusion.

We are in a better position to survive the financial meltdown than most.

Budge is so out of her depth it’s frightening.

**greenpaper55** · 19-03-2020 07:07 AM

Have they paid the builder for the new stand yet ? maybe this has something to do with it .

**~~Peevemor~~** · 19-03-2020 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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And we are due £1.5m prize money as soon as the league decide to end the season.

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The bottom club get £1.12m - this is the minimum amount that any club will get and my understanding is that this is paid in instalments during the season. So even if we would be due £1.56m for finishng 6th, we might already have had about half of that.

**brog** · 19-03-2020 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

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That list is almost totally meaningless. It's just a snapshot of cash balances in the last published accounts. It has little bearing on any of the club's abilities to stay afloat in the current climate. For example the Hibs' balance of £4.2m is likely close to zero now that we are in March and most of the season ticket money has been spent servicing the ongoing costs of the season. Shouldn't be a problem for Hibs though.

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

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No-one knows what the current cash balances are at Hibs apart from the Directors and the Accounts team. The figure is only published once a year in the accounts and that is at a date when cash balances are at their peak due to season ticket money. It certainly won't be 6 months cover that's sitting in the bank at the moment but one would imagine there is enough in the tank to see us limp to the back end of the season when we can start collecting season ticket money for the new season (and there should be support from Ron Gordon if it's needed).

While thats 100% correct we have also had income since the start of the season. In addition to routine walk ups & away support, say an average of £40k per game, we've had 4 games against the uglies & our ugly neighbours which will have generated about £500k. We should all be concerned but, comparatively, we're in a decent place.

**FilipinoHibs** · 19-03-2020 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by jacomo

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Budge is not going to liquidate the club.

You may mean voluntary administration but - as Ozyhibby says - football debt remains payable. They would just bump their other creditors (again).

Yes I meant voluntary administration. I am not sure the players wages count as football debt. I thought it would be debt to other clubs etc.. The admins would try to cut costs by making players redundant or reducing wages. See Morton/Motherwell.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ll/1958230.stm

**Since452** · 19-03-2020 07:16 AM

We should offer Hickey a contract now

**brog** · 19-03-2020 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

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That's where I am.

I'm exactly the opposite D. Anything that both cheers me up & distracts me from the awful state of the world is fine by me. I never thought I'd say this but, Thank You Hearts!!

**Riverside Hibs** · 19-03-2020 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by CMurdoch

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Biscuits Preston on Day 2 of Self Isolation at home

https://www.facebook.com/TheSeshPage...6833931598396/

I have not laughed so hard in a while.

**HFC93** · 19-03-2020 07:26 AM

What's stopping Hickey refusing the pay cut and leaving for nothing? That's them losing a pized asset for **** all.

**Since452** · 19-03-2020 07:28 AM

If Hearts went to the wall it would cheer me up no end. The most slippery, skeekit, untrustworthy club in word football and I include the old Rangers in that. Started in the Mercer days and 30 odd years later they haven't learned their lessons despite wriggling out of it less than a decade ago. I'd dance on their grave. Hibs will be just fine and dandy without them. In fact we'd be even stronger. If Karma is about to finish them off for good then I'm all for it. Tramps.

***Brightside*** · 19-03-2020 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by HFC93

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What's stopping Hickey refusing the pay cut and leaving for nothing? That's them losing a pized asset for **** all.

The fact he’s a daft wee Jambo?

**~~The 90+2~~** · 19-03-2020 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by underscore

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The fact he’s a daft wee Jambo?

He’s a Celtic fan from Celtic land who has made it known prior to this he wants to go back to Celtic. The exact opposite of Callum Patterson kicking about and staying the last time.

**~~The 90+2~~** · 19-03-2020 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

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But Hearts will want to heroically emerge from admin again and once again be a club like no other club again, so unless the rules are massively ignored they've got to pay all football debt in full to do that.

Any player that wants what Hearts were willing to pay them to play for them would have to be paid in full if Hearts wanted to play professional football again.

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All true.

**cocteautwin** · 19-03-2020 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Hibs4185

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If we use that logic and think that hibs reserves are depleted then the rest of the clubs in that table are totally screwed.

It's not about logic, it's just a matter of accounting fact. It's all part of the normal annual cycle of cash that football clubs experience. They get their biggest cash inflows in Apr/May/Jun when the season ticket money comes in and the cash balances look high on the balance sheet if year end is 30 June (but there is a deferred creditor to offset this). There's no right or wrong here - it's just the way it is and it's normal for Hibs. Cash balances are high at year end and the cash is then used over the course of the season. Until the new season ticket monies arrive our balance at the bank is probably quite low. It's normal.

What isn't normal is a football club taking in all the early season ticket money in Apr/May/Jun and spending it all by 30 June 2019 - which is exactly what Hearts have done at the start of the current season and one can see this in their accounts where they have a low cash balance when they should have had large balances of season ticket money.

If HMFC's benefactor has indeed turned off the tap then they are in serious doo doo unless Budge ponys up the cash. The second part of your sentence above where you mention that some clubs might be screwed totally applies to HMFC in these circumstances.

**FilipinoHibs** · 19-03-2020 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by 90+2

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All true.

So has the SPL rules changed since Motherwell made 19 players redundant?

**HFC93** · 19-03-2020 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by underscore

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The fact he’s a daft wee Jambo?

I hear the he's Celtic minded.

***Bostonhibby*** · 19-03-2020 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by 90+2

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All true.

Think rule E31.2 might take care of it?

E31.2 As at 31 January in each calendar year a Club and the Candidate Club must not
have any Overdue Payables, see description of Overdue Payables in Rules E31.4
and E31.5, towards any of its Players, coaching or football management staff,
including those formerly employed by the Club and the Candidate Club in such
role

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***Billy Whizz*** · 19-03-2020 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

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We are probably in a slightly better position as we've just had a Derby at home meaning we shifted 3,500 tickets at 30 a pop.

That won't stretch too far unfortunately, so we just need to hope that someone at the club has been sensible and kept a rainy day fund.

Don't take any particular joy in them asking staff to take pay cuts and ticket office staff and club shop staff getting shafted tbh.

Hope they’ve paid us for the tickets?

**cocteautwin** · 19-03-2020 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by brog

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While thats 100% correct we have also had income since the start of the season. In addition to routine walk ups & away support, say an average of £40k per game, we've had 4 games against the uglies & our ugly neighbours which will have generated about £500k. We should all be concerned but, comparatively, we're in a decent place.

Yup, I think this to be the case.

***JimBHibees*** · 19-03-2020 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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They don’t need to find a new club. They can stay at Hearts on full pay.

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And let's remember guys like Naismith and many others were given long and expensive contracts which will still have a number of years left on them.

**Kaiser1962** · 19-03-2020 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by SuperAllyMcleod

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Interesting tweet from Bella Caledonia a couple of days ago - some interesting figures there and the end column gives a good insight into who is going to handle the lay-off best.

Top marks to some of the other well run teams - St Johnstone and Livi in particular.

The teams with overspending form, not so good.

So, according to this, Hearts operating costs are near half a million a month more than Hibs? Can any of the financial guys confirm this?

**~~Peevemor~~** · 19-03-2020 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

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It's not about logic, it's just a matter of accounting fact. It's all part of the normal annual cycle of cash that football clubs experience. They get their biggest cash inflows in Apr/May/Jun when the season ticket money comes in and the cash balances look high on the balance sheet if year end is 30 June (but there is a deferred creditor to offset this). There's no right or wrong here - it's just the way it is and it's normal for Hibs. Cash balances are high at year end and the cash is then used over the course of the season. Until the new season ticket monies arrive our balance at the bank is probably quite low. It's normal.

What isn't normal is a football club taking in all the early season ticket money in Apr/May/Jun and spending it all by 30 June 2019 - which is exactly what Hearts have done at the start of the current season and one can see this in their accounts where they have a low cash balance when they should have had large balances of season ticket money.

If HMFC's benefactor has indeed turned off the tap then they are in serious doo doo unless Budge ponys up the cash. The second part of your sentence above where you mention that some clubs might be screwed totally applies to HMFC in these circumstances.

It's like someone living with an overdraft that's about the same as their monthly take-home. You can live with it (though often touch and go) and will even be in credit for a few days at a time, but as soon as there's an unforeseen problem you're goosed.