Scottish Independence

[HibernianJK]

Decent speech from Sturgeon. Talking about making a real go at undecided voters. As a strong Yes voter, no matter when an Indyref vote is held I would vote yes, as I’m sure the vast majority would. However I wonder if striking a deal depending on the outcome of Holyrood next year e.g. SNP majority, with Westminster, and a vote being dependant on that, would be the best way to secure a legal binding vote. I think the Yes movement will only grow stronger over the next year and a vote in 2021 makes more sense to me.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I’m not so sure that you can count on that level of change unless you can find out why there was such a large shift.

I suspect that there would have been very few that had given much thought to Independence, and therefore happy enough with the status quo, but would have formed an alternative opinion as they became more engaged in the campaigns. I don’t think there will be any where near that level of swing second time around, a lot more people will already be entrenched in their views.

I think you're spot on. Indyref1 turned independence from a fringe consideration that nobody really thought would ever happen to a concrete, here and now possibility. That forced people to have a good think and make their minds up. Between then and now, independence has remained as the pre-eminent issue in Scottish politics, so it's not as if people have stopped thinking about it. There has been a small but definite shift to Yes in the last year as Brexit has become an inevitability. Hopefully that movement will continue but I'd be very surprised if there was anything you could describe as a "surge".

[heretoday]

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That’s not going to do it. That generation is wedded to the union. They believe in it. There is nothing wrong with that. I have always believed that the best case for the union is if you feel British first and foremost. I think that’s a good reason to be a no voter.
All the other reasons are a bit of a nonsense. The economy could either be better or worse after independence but that will be down to the choices we make. Being independent and making your own decisions is more important. Especially now that we see democracy being taken away.


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Yup, it's a sentimental thing. When I'm walking the Sussex Downs or along the White Cliffs, I feel I'm in my own country - just as I do when I'm in the Highlands, where my family is originally from.

If Indy happens, so be it. I won't starve but I will be sad.

[weecounty hibby]

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That’s not going to do it. That generation is wedded to the union. They believe in it. There is nothing wrong with that. I have always believed that the best case for the union is if you feel British first and foremost. I think that’s a good reason to be a no voter.
All the other reasons are a bit of a nonsense. The economy could either be better or worse after independence but that will be down to the choices we make. Being independent and making your own decisions is more important. Especially now that we see democracy being taken away.


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That is so true. My mum is 76 and has lung cancer that she is undergoing treatment for. To put it bluntly she doesn't really have a future to speak of. I have spoken to her about an indyref2 vote and how it's about the future of her grandkids. Still would vote no. Even if she was guaranteed to be cured in an independent Scotland she would still vote no.

[lapsedhibee]

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Decent speech from Sturgeon. Talking about making a real go at undecided voters. As a strong Yes voter, no matter when an Indyref vote is held I would vote yes, as I’m sure the vast majority would. However I wonder if striking a deal depending on the outcome of Holyrood next year e.g. SNP majority, with Westminster, and a vote being dependant on that, would be the best way to secure a legal binding vote. I think the Yes movement will only grow stronger over the next year and a vote in 2021 makes more sense to me.

Think Cummings/Johnson has already ruled out anything of the sort. Persisting with the Once In A Generation mantra instead.

[Ozyhibby]

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That is so true. My mum is 76 and has lung cancer that she is undergoing treatment for. To put it bluntly she doesn't really have a future to speak of. I have spoken to her about an indyref2 vote and how it's about the future of her grandkids. Still would vote no. Even if she was guaranteed to be cured in an independent Scotland she would still vote no.

My mate is a unionist and he has always just said that he just feels British and he’s happy with that. He never offers up any economic arguments or make claims about us all living in poverty if we become independent. He know he will be fine either way. His is a position I can totally respect.


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[WeeRussell]

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Yup, it's a sentimental thing. When I'm walking the Sussex Downs or along the White Cliffs, I feel I'm in my own country - just as I do when I'm in the Highlands, where my family is originally from.

If Indy happens, so be it. I won't starve but I will be sad.

And yet so often, so many of us are scoffed at/dismissed for using the same (but opposite) sentimental notion as a want for independence... even though it's rarely the independence supporter who gives that as a reason.

I do understand your point of view though. As it happens to be the opposite as to how I feel when it comes to 'home' sentiment. Albeit I feel there are (now more than ever) more pressing and political reasons for Scottish independence.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure if everyone is aware that the Rev is closing Wings for a while because he doesn't agree with the first minister.

Can only be a good thing.

[weecounty hibby]

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Not sure if everyone is aware that the Rev is closing Wings for a while because he doesn't agree with the first minister.

Can only be a good thing.

Yip, posted that on Twitter. Now more than ever we need everyone pulling in the same direction. It is closer than it ever has been and him being a loose cannon is not good. We need to be winning the hearts and minds of the no voters not berating them or arguing with like minded folk

[Just Alf]

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Yip, posted that on Twitter. Now more than ever we need everyone pulling in the same direction. It is closer than it ever has been and him being a loose cannon is not good. We need to be winning the hearts and minds of the no voters not berating them or arguing with like minded folk

A bit bitter/sweet for me, the site was good at linking to background data on independence but his front end narrative could be a bit looney at times (I'm being polite).



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[Ozyhibby]

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Yip, posted that on Twitter. Now more than ever we need everyone pulling in the same direction. It is closer than it ever has been and him being a loose cannon is not good. We need to be winning the hearts and minds of the no voters not berating them or arguing with like minded folk

Definite loose canon. He’s not going to win over those soft no voters that need to be won over next time out.


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[The Harp Awakes]

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The age breakdown is mental (excluding DKs),


Under 50s

Yes: 66%
No: 34%

Under 65s

Yes: 59%
No: 41%

Over 65s

Yes: 25%
No: 75%




It's only a matter of time based on that, but is there anything the SNP / Yes campaign can do to turn some of that 75% of over 65s to Yes for a referendum in the next 1 to 2 years?

The older you get, the more resistant you get to change. However, the key fact is the over 65s have lived most of their lives at a time without a Scottish Government and total Westminster rule. They lived in days when the educational system restricted Scottish history being taught in schools.

The demographics will be be more and more in favour of Yes as time goes by. As Tam Dalyell said 30 years ago, devolution is a motorway to independence without an exit. He was correct.

[Ozyhibby]

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The older you get, the more resistant you get to change. However, the key fact is the over 65s have lived most of their lives at a time without a Scottish Government and total Westminster rule. They lived in days when the educational system restricted Scottish history being taught in schools.

The demographics will be be more and more in favour of Yes as time goes by. As Tam Dalyell said 30 years ago, devolution is a motorway to independence without an exit. He was correct.

The curriculum nowadays is very much taught from a Scottish perspective in every subject. That will make a big difference over time and is no accident. Ozyhibby jnr has already studied the wars of independence and he’s only 2nd year at high school. I can’t remember them even being mentioned when I was at school.


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[StevieC]

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The curriculum nowadays is very much taught from a Scottish perspective in every subject. That will make a big difference over time and is no accident. Ozyhibby jnr has already studied the wars of independence and he’s only 2nd year at high school. I can’t remember them even being mentioned when I was at school.

I can remember doing the American war of independence at school, can’t remember much in the way of Scottish history.

[allmodcons]

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Yip, posted that on Twitter. Now more than ever we need everyone pulling in the same direction. It is closer than it ever has been and him being a loose cannon is not good. We need to be winning the hearts and minds of the no voters not berating them or arguing with like minded folk

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Definite loose canon. He’s not going to win over those soft no voters that need to be won over next time out.


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He was very good during the 2014 referendum but has a ridiculously over inflated opinion of his contribution then and of himself in general.

In the last year or so he has become a complete liability. His site is infested with 150 or so posters you simply do not like the fact that the SNP are the main vehicle for Independence. They are, for me, the worst excesses of the Independence movement.

I am glad he's taking a holiday with the money fundraised from his little band of followers and, to be frank, hope he does not come back.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I can remember doing the American war of independence at school, can’t remember much in the way of Scottish history.

We did it at Wallyford Primary and I can remember they showed us Kidnapped starring Michael Caine. It was set in the aftermath of Culloden. I found it quite traumatic as an 11 year old and can only imagine it was extracurricular.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Definite loose canon. He’s not going to win over those soft no voters that need to be won over next time out.


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He always had some dodgy views (Hillsborough) but he’s completely lost it over the gender recognition thing. And Kezia Dugdale, there’s audio he actually posted himself of an interview he did with the Times journo Kenny Farqhuarson where he sounds like he should be locked up tout de suite for everyone’s safety!

[CloudSquall]

Malcolm Chisholm pretty much confirming he's switching to yes,

https://mobile.twitter.com/MalcolmCh...47451895951361

[Ozyhibby]

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Malcolm Chisholm pretty much confirming he's switching to yes,

https://mobile.twitter.com/MalcolmCh...47451895951361

I totally agree with Sturgeon that patience is the way forward here. The lack of talent on the unionist side of the argument is getting further eroded with every passing election.
Labour now have only one MP. The Tories are bout to be led by Jackson Carlaw. The less said about Willie Rennie the better.
Next years Scottish election is very likely to be fought on the independence issue and that is very likely to see the SNP return with 2011 levels of support. Possibly higher if we are having to deal with a hard brexit.
There won’t be a better together 2 because what’s left of the Labour Party won’t join so there will be 2, maybe 3 unionist campaigns run by very poor leaders. It’s possible that they have to bring in politicians from England to help carry the load.
The next campaign will be very different from 2014.



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[Ozyhibby]

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[ronaldo7]

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They're starting to fall in behind the FM.

Polls shifting, unions getting onboard, many labour party members saying they'll vote yes, next time.

It's coming yet. 👍

[The Harp Awakes]

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They're starting to fall in behind the FM.

Polls shifting, unions getting onboard, many labour party members saying they'll vote yes, next time.

It's coming yet. 👍

It's all about momentum. We need to keep it going and bide our time. It's within our grasp if we're patient. The FM is playing a blinder.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-sc...mpression=true

The attitude of other European countries in the next indyref will be very different I think.


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[lapsedhibee]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-sc...mpression=true

The attitude of other European countries in the next indyref will be very different I think.

And was a nice touch that the EU Commission building in Brussels projected "Europe [Heart] Scotland" on to itself on Friday night.

[HiBremian]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-sc...mpression=true

The attitude of other European countries in the next indyref will be very different I think.


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The irony is that Scottish membership of the EU whilst the rUK was still a member would have easily resolved the border issue. With the UK now out it gets more complicated. On the other hand, by the time of independence the solution will be “oven ready” due to the need to resolve the Irish situation. Unless Johnson wants heavily manned controls between Northern Ireland and the mainland, a relatively open border solution for goods will need to be found. Scotland should await developments re Ireland. In fact, on the level of free movement of people the template is already in place:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-after-brexit

[GlesgaeHibby]

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It's all about momentum. We need to keep it going and bide our time. It's within our grasp if we're patient. The FM is playing a blinder.

It is, and I think most people are fully aware that Indyref2 won't be this year.

Holding it after the 2021 elections will follow over a year of the real Brexit negotiations, which I can only see building further support for Yes.

[makaveli1875]

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And was a nice touch that the EU Commission building in Brussels projected "Europe [Heart] Scotland" on to itself on Friday night.

It was enough to bring a tear to a glass eye that.

[lapsedhibee]

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It was enough to bring a tear to a glass eye that.

It's another indicator of how acceptable, inside and outside its borders, the idea of Scotland making its own way has become.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://politicshome.com/news/uk/pol...blitz-scotland

[makaveli1875]

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It's another indicator of how acceptable, inside and outside its borders, the idea of Scotland making its own way has become.

They're just stirring **** up. They didn't put on any pretty light shows for the Catalans when they were being baton charged by the Spanish police not so long ago