General election 2019

[CloudSquall]

I think the SNP should stick to their guns, and they need to.

If they back down and support Labour without getting the power to hold a referendum just to keep out the Tories they'll never get it, Labour will know they'll **** it and back them regardless in the future.

I think Labour voters down south are (on the whole) quite sympathetic to the SNP's argument towards holding a referendum, does Corbyn really want to explain to them why he gave up the chance to govern due to refusing to accept the SNP mandate to hold a referendum?

[Frankhfc]

I'd like to hear far more about what independence could look like post indy 2 win. I read a lot about how to get there but not a lot about whats likely to happen thereafter. Its okay arguing for independence but key questions need answered as to what Scotland will look like politically and how it will be funded post exiting the UK?

I'm not against independence merely asking those who argue for it the most to explain what they think will happen afterwards.

[Fife-Hibee]

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I'd like to hear far more about what independence could look like post indy 2 win. I read a lot about how to get there but not a lot about whats likely to happen thereafter. Its okay arguing for independence but key questions need answered as to what Scotland will look like politically and how it will be funded post exiting the UK?

I'm not against independence merely asking those who argue for it the most to explain what they think will happen afterwards.

Asking a question like how Scotland will look politically after independence is pointless. Because we're not yet at the point where we're independent and choosing the government to take us forward for the next 4-5 years.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I'd like to hear far more about what independence could look like post indy 2 win. I read a lot about how to get there but not a lot about whats likely to happen thereafter. Its okay arguing for independence but key questions need answered as to what Scotland will look like politically and how it will be funded post exiting the UK?

I'm not against independence merely asking those who argue for it the most to explain what they think will happen afterwards.

There's a lot of information out there. Try common weal to begin with.

[Frankhfc]

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Asking a question like how Scotland will look politically after independence is pointless. Because we're not yet at the point where we're independent and choosing the government to take us forward for the next 4-5 years.

Fair answer.

I'd still like to hear much more of how we would go forward and how we will be funded post independence. We do hear a heck of a lot of arguing how to get there but not much about the aftermath. It'd be nice to hear much more regarding the pragmatic thereafter.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Fair answer.

I'd still like to hear much more of how we would go forward and how we will be funded post independence. We do hear a heck of a lot of arguing how to get there but not much about the aftermath. It'd be nice to hear much more regarding the pragmatic thereafter.

https://commonweal.scot/

[Frankhfc]

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There's a lot of information out there. Try common weal to begin with.

Fair dos.

I was just making the point that all we seem to read about are those who argue for ruk and those who argue for independence without much reasoning. I'd like to think we could have a more balanced debate that that but hey ho, its an emotive issue I suppose.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Yes you, your posts back it up.

You really don't need anyone's approval to be tied to anything.
Who will you be voting for in 3 weeks?

It is my right to vote for whoever I want. On this thread or another I have made clear I am a Labour Party member and I have made clear I have no truck with Jeremy Corbyn.

I have also made clear in a number of posts that I am not a unionist and laid clear my belief about what is the best route for someone living where I do, which covers Edinburgh and the south-east of Scotland.

What more are you looking for?

You launched, big-style, calling me an unionist.

You got that massively wrong, as my previous posts show.

Not a unionist, not a separatist, maybe just aspiring to something better.

You need to get your facts right.

[lord bunberry]

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If you think the people of Scotland would forgive the SNP a second time for putting the Tories into power your totally misguided. Sturgeon has already said no deal with Tories so to not back Corbyn allowing BJ into power will catastrophic for the future of independence

If you think that trotting out this tired old line about 1979 will win Labour votes in Scotland you are very much mistaken. Quite frankly it’s utterly pathetic, Corbyn had a certain degree of leeway up here until he tweeted about 1979. At that moment he became the same as every other Westminster politician that headed up here.
weve had all three leaders of the main political parties come up to Scotland, none have asked what we want, but everyone of them has told us what we’re allowed. Do you know what mate, we’re not listening anymore.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Fair answer.

I'd still like to hear much more of how we would go forward and how we will be funded post independence. We do hear a heck of a lot of arguing how to get there but not much about the aftermath. It'd be nice to hear much more regarding the pragmatic thereafter.

It's the same issue really. We don't really know what we'll be funding as an independent Scotland, because that'll depend on the elected government at any given time.

They are questions where no real concrete answers can be given. The SNP can of course give their vision, but their vision may well be rejected by the Scottish electorate.

[Fife-Hibee]

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If you think that trotting out this tired old line about 1979 will win Labour votes in Scotland you are very much mistaken. Quite frankly it’s utterly pathetic, Corbyn had a certain degree of leeway up here until he tweeted about 1979. At that moment he became the same as every other Westminster politician that headed up here.
weve had all three leaders of the main political parties come up to Scotland, none have asked what we want, but everyone of them has told us what we’re allowed. Do you know what mate, we’re not listening anymore.

.

[Mibbes Aye]

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If you think that trotting out this tired old line about 1979 will win Labour votes in Scotland you are very much mistaken. Quite frankly it’s utterly pathetic, Corbyn had a certain degree of leeway up here until he tweeted about 1979. At that moment he became the same as every other Westminster politician that headed up here.
weve had all three leaders of the main political parties come up to Scotland, none have asked what we want, but everyone of them has told us what we’re allowed. Do you know what mate, we’re not listening anymore.

We isn’t me though, is it?

How many Scottish people do you think you speak for when you say ‘we’?

[Glory Lurker]

Mibbes Aye. Taking you at your word, you have a far, far better understanding of the SNHS than I do. I wouldn't dare argue with you about it. What's the answer? And - only slightly loaded - if you know, what are you doing about it?

[Fife-Hibee]

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We isn’t me though, is it?

How many Scottish people do you think you speak for when you say ‘we’?

Don't start this pathetic "we" stuff again. The hypocrisy is lost on you when you do it yourself.

[Frankhfc]

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It's the same issue really. We don't really know what we'll be funding as an independent Scotland, because that'll depend on the elected government at any given time.

They are questions where no real concrete answers can be given. The SNP can of course give their vision, but their vision may well be rejected by the Scottish electorate.

At least you're not flashing Unicorns bearing gifts and false promise. That is at least something.

I'd rather that than a tale of hijacking BT and sometime in the future ten year timelines of free internet for all.

[Fife-Hibee]

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At least you're not flashing Unicorns bearing gifts and false promise. That is at least something.

I'd rather that than a tale of hijacking BT and sometime in the future ten year timelines of free internet for all.

One of the biggest challenges from an independence supporters perspective, is convincing others that independence isn't all about the SNP and their own personal vision. It's about all of us, regardless of where you sit politically.

It's unfortunate that we're in a position where the SNP are the only real carrying voice for an independent Scotland, as it makes the idea seem to be all about them, when it really isn't.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Don't start this pathetic "we" stuff again. The hypocrisy is lost on you when you do it yourself.

Why is it pathetic?

You have been called out on here several times by different posters for being a liar. And run and hid.

Maybe refute that before calling me pathetic.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Why is it pathetic?

Because it's pre-school levels of "debate". Just a nonsensical diversion used to avoid debating the points at hand. You already know "we" is being used to describe people with the same or very similar political views and not "we" as in everybody.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Mibbes Aye. Taking you at your word, you have a far, far better understanding of the SNHS than I do. I wouldn't dare argue with you about it. What's the answer? And - only slightly loaded - if you know, what are you doing about it?

I would love a debate about this that wasn’t loaded with a nationalist agenda, similarly that wasn’t subject to Stay propaganda.

It is perhaps the biggest issue we face but it is obscured by all the other stuff that is going on.

I am cautious to debate as I am unsure what I will be met with.

Open for fair and reasonable discussion but I am not interested in the defensiveness or vitriol I have seen so far. I am not out to criticise the SNHS but I do have questions about how SG is managing health services.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Because it's pre-school levels of "debate". Just a nonsensical diversion used to avoid debating the points at hand. You already know "we" is being used to describe people with the same or very similar political views and not "we" as in everybody.

But “we” isn’t “me”.

You can’t claim “the same or very similar political views”, that would just be another lie, which as we have established, you are readily capable of.

[Fife-Hibee]

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But “we” isn’t “me”.

You can’t claim “the same or very similar political views”, that would just be another lie, which as we have established, you are readily capable of.

I don't know whether your use of grammar in the most extreme literal sense is deliberate or not. But I would hazard a guess that you know exactly what posters mean when they use the term "we" in their posts and you only dig it up to avoid debating the fundemental points the post is making. Yet ruining another page where effective debate could be taking place.

[lord bunberry]

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We isn’t me though, is it?

How many Scottish people do you think you speak for when you say ‘we’?

Fair point as I particularly hate when politicians try and pretend to speak for us all. I think my point stands that using the confidence vote in 79 as an attempt to win votes is more likely to turn voters away from Corbyn as it’s completely irrelevant to the current election. I quite like many of labours policies and in an independent Scotland I would almost certainly vote for them, but they’ve absolutely blown it in Scotland and turning up with a tartan scarf telling us that that if we don’t vote for him it will be our fault that the tories get elected only emphasises how out of touch labour are in Scotland.

[Fife-Hibee]

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I quite like many of labours policies and in an independent Scotland I would almost certainly vote for them, but they’ve absolutely blown it in Scotland and turning up with a tartan scarf telling us that that if we don’t vote for him it will be our fault that the tories get elected only emphasises how out of touch labour are in Scotland.

It's actually quite worrying that they're still touting out that line in Scotland tbh. The closest party to the SNP in Scotland right now in terms of overall vote share are the tories. Yet Labour come up here and tell us that anything other than voting Labour will result in a tory government, while knowing full well that a reduction of the SNP vote to increase Labours vote more would ultimately be handing seats to the tories in Scotland.

They're playing on peoples lack of knowledge of how the electoral system works to give the tories a helping hand. If they actually cared about keeping the tories out of government, they would be urging as many people as possible up here to vote SNP.

[ronaldo7]

I see labour have pulled a video in Wales of a nurse, fake of course, telling everyone how they're going to improve the NHS in Wales.

The 77th brigade are upping their game.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/st...594366464?s=21

Fairly clear explanation of where we are at.


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[weecounty hibby]

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If you think the people of Scotland would forgive the SNP a second time for putting the Tories into power your totally misguided. Sturgeon has already said no deal with Tories so to not back Corbyn allowing BJ into power will catastrophic for the future of independence

Are you forgetting all the years that Scotland voted overwhelmingly Labour and we got Tories. So was it Labour who put the Tories in then? What actually happened was the Labour took Scotland for granted and ignored our wants and needs. The only party solely focused on Scotland is the SNP. If you don't want Tory rule in Scotland vote SNP and for Independence. It would you rather be part of the Union and governed by Tories. Because that's the choice, Labour are done in Scotland and heading that way in England

[Ozyhibby]

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Are you forgetting all the years that Scotland voted overwhelmingly Labour and we got Tories. So was it Labour who put the Tories in then? What actually happened was the Labour took Scotland for granted and ignored our wants and needs. The only party solely focused on Scotland is the SNP. If you don't want Tory rule in Scotland vote SNP and for Independence. It would you rather be part of the Union and governed by Tories. Because that's the choice, Labour are done in Scotland and heading that way in England

Pre the Scottish Parliament there was as little attention paid to Scotland as there is now paid to the north of England. And it shows as Scotland is now wealthier than that part of the country by quite a distance. Having our own govt constantly going into bat for us whether it’s arguing with Westminster or touting for business abroad has been great for Scotland. With independence we could increase that more.


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[Cataplana]

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Are you forgetting all the years that Scotland voted overwhelmingly Labour and we got Tories. So was it Labour who put the Tories in then? What actually happened was the Labour took Scotland for granted and ignored our wants and needs. The only party solely focused on Scotland is the SNP. If you don't want Tory rule in Scotland vote SNP and for Independence. It would you rather be part of the Union and governed by Tories. Because that's the choice, Labour are done in Scotland and heading that way in England

People aren't forgetting the deals that Kezia Carcrash did with the Tories to keep the SNP out in 2017. Had it not been for the seats she donated then Corbyn would have been in power.

Scottish Labour will get back one day, but at the moment they are no more than a fringe party. They have done serious damage to themselves in the last ten years, but are yet to recognise that themselves.

It will take at least ten years for a new wave of members to turn on the numpties that got them in that mess.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/robinjpickering/...487799296?s=21
Good twitter thread on Labour’s broadband plan. It has good and bad points. Electorally it is probably a good offer as there are a lot of people unhappy with their broadband speed outside the major cities.


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[heretoday]

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https://twitter.com/robinjpickering/...487799296?s=21
Good twitter thread on Labour’s broadband plan. It has good and bad points. Electorally it is probably a good offer as there are a lot of people unhappy with their broadband speed outside the major cities.


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Sounds good to me. With bank branches closing we're all going to have to do finance online whether we like it or not. This will help.