Rugby

hfc rd · 13-10-2019 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

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According to the guys in the studio they’re on a fraction of what the “tier 1” nations are so maybe not the case.

If that’s the case then start making contact with his agent now or someone else is going to get him.

Then again, unfortunately I think Townsend will still be at the wheel.

**~~Torto7~~** · 13-10-2019 01:09 PM

Japan were worthy winners. I'm sorry for tooney but its the same flaws over and over again. He needs to go. Jamie Ritchie was immense.

40 million watched the Japanese group games god knows what the rating will be for this one. They're now an established tier 1 team and will only go from strength to strength. I actually worry about Scotland long term and falling out of the top tier. The Americans are getting their domestic set up sorted as well.

***Hibernia&Alba*** · 13-10-2019 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Torto7

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Japan were worthy winners. I'm sorry for tooney but its the same flaws over and over again. He needs to go. Jamie Ritchie was immense.

40 million watched the Japanese group games god knows what the rating will be for this one. They're now an established tier 1 team and will only go from strength to strength. I actually worry about Scotland long term and falling out of the top tier. The Americans are getting their domestic set up sorted as well.

Yes, there are nations improving well. We might end up in the same position as the football.

***Danderhall Hibs*** · 13-10-2019 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by hfc rd

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If that’s the case then start making contact with his agent now or someone else is going to get him.

Then again, unfortunately I think Townsend will still be at the wheel.

Could maybe give some of their players a passport and ship them over.

**heretoday** · 13-10-2019 01:16 PM

Japan should play in the southern hemisphere championship . Make it five nations.

***cabbageandribs1875*** · 13-10-2019 01:16 PM

it's perfectly possible this WC might just be the last Scotland could possibly have a good chance of going through as a group runner-up, imo

***weecounty hibby*** · 13-10-2019 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

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According to the guys in the studio they’re on a fraction of what the “tier 1” nations are so maybe not the case.

Yeah, they are "part time" most of them play for works teams and have VERY well paid jobs in the corporation that also allows them to have 240 days in training camp earning a further sum from the JRU. I would be willing to bet that they will all round be earning just as much if not more than the Edinburgh or Glasgow players. Scotland do not pay very high wages. The guys you saw playing today will be earning for their clubs about the same as Hibs players plus the top up of national appearance money.

**Since90+2** · 13-10-2019 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

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Yeah, they are "part time" most of them play for works teams and have VERY well paid jobs in the corporation that also allows them to have 240 days in training camp earning a further sum from the JRU. I would be willing to bet that they will all round be earning just as much if not more than the Edinburgh or Glasgow players. Scotland do not pay very high wages. The guys you saw playing today will be earning for their clubs about the same as Hibs players plus the top up of national appearance money.

Apparently Edinburgh Rugby's salary cost per year is 3.8 million and Glasgow's is 4.2 million. I can't remember what Hibs is.

Obviously guys like Hogg and Russell will be the exception, I think Finn Russell is on 10k a week at Racing.

**nellio** · 13-10-2019 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by heretoday

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Japan should play in the southern hemisphere championship . Make it five nations.

Definitely. Should have happened already but hasn't for whatever reason.

***weecounty hibby*** · 13-10-2019 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Since90+2

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Apparently Edinburgh Rugby's salary cost per year is 3.8 million and Glasgow's is 4.2 million. I can't remember what Hibs is.

Obviously guys like Hogg and Russell will be the exception, I think Finn Russell is on 10k a week at Racing.

Bear in mind that the squads at Edinburgh and Glasgow are about 50 players each. It is one of the reasons that players leave to go to France and England, we cannot compete with the wages on offer

**Since90+2** · 13-10-2019 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by weecounty hibby

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Bear in mind that the squads at Edinburgh and Glasgow are about 50 players each. It is one of the reasons that players leave to go to France and England, we cannot compete with the wages on offer

Yip , losing guys like Hogg and Gray to English clubs definitely doesn't help the national team.

**Sir David Gray** · 13-10-2019 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by heretoday

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Japan should play in the southern hemisphere championship . Make it five nations.

They're in the Northern Hemisphere though. Should they not be added to the Six Nations?

***cabbageandribs1875*** · 13-10-2019 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

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They're in the Northern Hemisphere though. Should they not be added to the Six Nations?

Georgia will be an addition to the six nations before japan are, it's a shame for the japanese as there would be a helluva travelling involved whatever group they joined, 11 hours to both the UK and New Zealand for them, having said that it's 12 hours Argentina to New Zealand in the championship, i simply cannot see six nations countries overly keen to include Japan....

**~~Torto7~~** · 13-10-2019 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

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Yes, there are nations improving well. We might end up in the same position as the football.

I think that's likely in the mid to long term. I can see a situation in 30/40 years were all the best players play in 4 competitions. The U.S, France, Asia and the U.k. I think the Celtic teams will join a U.k league. It wouldn't even surprise me if the big rugby league clubs end up involved after 50 or so years and the game is some form of hybrid.

The southern Hemisphere teams will become like Brazil in football all the best players playing overseas. That's already happening tbf.

***J-C*** · 13-10-2019 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by hfc rd

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Was an absolute criminal decision getting rid of Vern

Townsend is the establishment coach but he's never an international level one. He wants to play the game as open as possible but his team lacks discipline in the defensive side, the ball needs played through the forwards and you have to gain control and suck in the opponents back line before you can have the expansive game. His players go all out for it as soon as the whistle goes, this works against lesser teams but generally against good organised sides we'll get humped, against England was perfect example, hammered in the 1st half and only allowed back into it when they took their foot off the pedal. Ireland and Japan did the same, sucked us in and hit our gaps with pace and great handling.

Vern Cotter was treated disgracefully by the SRU, he had the team playing very well with the players all loving him as a coach but the SRU had Townsend learning his trade at Glasgow just waiting in the wings, he's a poor coach with poor tactics.

**Since90+2** · 13-10-2019 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by J-C

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Townsend is the establishment coach but he's never an international level one. He wants to play the game as open as possible but his team lacks discipline in the defensive side, the ball needs played through the forwards and you have to gain control and suck in the opponents back line before you can have the expansive game. His players go all out for it as soon as the whistle goes, this works against lesser teams but generally against good organised sides we'll get humped, against England was perfect example, hammered in the 1st half and only allowed back into it when they took their foot off the pedal. Ireland and Japan did the same, sucked us in and hit our gaps with pace and great handling.

Vern Cotter was treated disgracefully by the SRU, he had the team playing very well with the players all loving him as a coach but the SRU had Townsend learning his trade at Glasgow just waiting in the wings, he's a poor coach with poor tactics.

It was the wrong decision to get rid of Cotter but to say he was treated disgracefuly is not right. His contract had ended and it was not renewed. It was the wrong decision on hindsight, but it's not as if they ended it early, so to say he was treated disgracefuly is wrong.

**heretoday** · 13-10-2019 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

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They're in the Northern Hemisphere though. Should they not be added to the Six Nations?

Mea culpa! Oh well, you know what I mean. I doubt the Aussies etc would be too strict about that. They'd be a big draw.

***J-C*** · 13-10-2019 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Since90+2

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It was the wrong decision to get rid of Cotter but to say he was treated disgracefuly is not right. His contract had ended and it was not renewed. It was the wrong decision on hindsight, but it's not as if they ended it early, so to say he was treated disgracefuly is wrong.

He was under the assumption his contract would be extended, it wasn't and Townsend took over, if you get a chance to see his interview when he left you'll see him shed a ear talking about it. Townsend is the wrong man for Scotland, decent coach but never an international one, he's the SRU choice and was earmarked for the job when at Glasgow.

***JimBHibees*** · 14-10-2019 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by J-C

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He was under the assumption his contract would be extended, it wasn't and Townsend took over, if you get a chance to see his interview when he left you'll see him shed a ear talking about it. Townsend is the wrong man for Scotland, decent coach but never an international one, he's the SRU choice and was earmarked for the job when at Glasgow.

Some of the games under Townsend have been amazing however some have been atrocious such as Ireland first up where we never laid a glove on them which immediately put us on the back foot. Too much onus on Russell who is either famine or feast capable of brilliance but also basic mistakes. Russell's kicking game yesterday was woeful continually gave the ball away especially in the final 22 with 50/50 chips which never came off. Like the style that Townsend tries to play but defensively not good enough against the power teams. Yesterday was a great game to watch but again we gave ourselves a mountain to climb.

**The Pointer** · 14-10-2019 08:12 AM

I read a few months ago that a lot of Saffie players are expected to move to European teams after the World Cup because of the increasing lawlessness in the country.

***Hibernia&Alba*** · 14-10-2019 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by The Pointer

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I read a few months ago that a lot of Saffie players are expected to move to European teams after the World Cup because of the increasing lawlessness in the country.

Wow. An old school fried of mine lives in Cape Town, and though she mentioned there are big problems in the country just now, she didn't say things were that bad. I will need to catch with her and find out what it's like.

hfc rd · 14-10-2019 02:57 PM

Townsend’s contract runs out in 2021. I reckon the 6 Nations is do or die. He needs a massive improvement not just in terms of pulling off a result or two but performances as well, particularly defensively. Otherwise the unrest amongst the fans is going to make the SRU act much sooner than 2021. Although very unlikely, just hope Jamie Joseph hasn’t been snapped up by then!

***Sergio sledge*** · 14-10-2019 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by hfc rd

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Townsend’s contract runs out in 2021. I reckon the 6 Nations is do or die. He needs a massive improvement not just in terms of pulling off a result or two but performances as well, particularly defensively. Otherwise the unrest amongst the fans is going to make the SRU act much sooner than 2021. Although very unlikely, just hope Jamie Joseph hasn’t been snapped up by then!

Yeah, the next 6 Nations has to be an improvement or he'll be gone I reckon. We're not far off being a really good team and I like the style of play in attack that we are trying to play, but the team is so open that we just leak tries at an alarming rate.

One of the problems is that we can't seem to hold on to the ball for any great length of time. Japan actually play a very similar style of rugby to the one Scotland are trying to play, but they accuracy they do it with is so much better than ours which means they hold onto the ball longer and build up momentum and pressure on the opposition. We just always seem to make that one mistake or bad decision which means the ball is handed back to the opposition.

We need to be able to be more accurate and not kick the ball away so much, play some possession rugby. Townsend and the players need to be a bit more pragmatic.

Townsend still has the best win rate of any of the Scotland coaches in my lifetime (including the 1990 grand slam side) and has turned us into an exciting attacking team scoring more than 3 tries a match on average. I still have nightmares about the bad old days under Andy Robinson where we were scoring less than a try a game.

We're capable of beating anyone on our day, but equally capable of losing, Townsend needs a to get some consistency into the team and, I think, win 3 games in this years 6 Nations. Winning at home vs France (on current inconsistent form) should be do-able, and England at home has got to be targeted for a win. Then beating Italy away is expected. Do that and he'll buy some time.

Despite the maddening play sometimes, I'd still rather watch us playing this way and sometimes losing than some of the dross we have been subjected to in the last 19 years.

**The Pointer** · 14-10-2019 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

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Wow. An old school fried of mine lives in Cape Town, and though she mentioned there are big problems in the country just now, she didn't say things were that bad. I will need to catch with her and find out what it's like.

Unfortunately going down the Zimbabwe route as the SA parliament passed a law permitting seizure of white owned land without compensation. There have been many murders carried out on farms and security is one of the biggest issues for families.

Planning on going there but will have to be sooner rather than later.

***cabbageandribs1875*** · 14-10-2019 07:01 PM

the irish guy red carded has been banned for 3 games, WC over for him

**~~Hibeesmad~~** · 15-10-2019 12:44 AM

I think Wales will be finalists

***Danderhall Hibs*** · 15-10-2019 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Hibeesmad

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I think Wales will be finalists

Looks like it - I can’t see Japan managing to raise themselves that many weeks in a row.

England v NZ in the other semi final is looking likely as well.

If it’s an England v Wales final I’d be struggling to want anyone to win.

**The Pointer** · 15-10-2019 07:02 AM

Scotland are at their best when they play an offloading, expansive style of game but we always try to force it resulting in knock-ons ( knocks-on??) and dropped passes. Hogg didn't get a chance to impose himself and Russell was 'suffocated' by the Jap defence. Also, thanks Greig for your fantastic service over the years but there are younger, hungrier, faster 9s out there.

I see where Toony wants to go with the high tempo stuff but I'm not sure we have the players to do it yet at a high enough standard. This is what the Japs did very well and showed us up as a result and they could go far.