Brexit - What Now.

[G B Young]

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Another stab at a deal with a further referendum to confirm (remain being on the ballot). Seems clear to me.

J

It's not that straightforward though is it? What they're saying is that if elected they would negotiate a 'Labour' deal with the EU with a view to then holding a confirmatory referendum - but that the party would still be unable to provide the electorate with a clear stance on Brexit because Corbyn and unions who prop him up are of the view that the large swathes of Labour voting constituencies who voted leave would be lost to the Tories/Brexit Party if they committed to a remain stance (coupled with the fact that Corbyn and Len McCluskey are lifelong Eurosceptic Brexiteers). The likes of Thornberry and McDonnell on the other hand would then campaign against the very deal they'd just negotiated. Hardly a snappy vote-winning strategy.

As Oz says, like him or loathe him, the PM's electoral stance is already nailed down and easy for voters to understand, as is that of the Lib Dems (the only party to actually come out straight and say they want to cancel Brexit completely). Labour on the other hand remain mired in confusion - or dither and delay, as Johnson would say.

[Colr]

Interesting development on the irrelevance of the DUP in a minority’s government we discussed yesterday.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-10/...robert-peston/

[Glory Lurker]

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Interesting development on the irrelevance of the DUP in a minority’s government we discussed yesterday.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-10/...robert-peston/

Lucky Norn Ironers. They voted remain and get to stay in the single market. Lucky England and Wales. They voted leave... acht, everyone knows where I'm going here... :-)

[JeMeSouviens]

Although I understand the argument that Labour’s latest position lacks clarity, I actually think there’s merit in it. Leavers get a chance to put a single achievable deal to the public, Remainers get a guaranteed ref2 with Remain on the ballot.

Difficult messaging to pull off though.

[Ozyhibby]

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Although I understand the argument that Labour’s latest position lacks clarity, I actually think there’s merit in it. Leavers get a chance to put a single achievable deal to the public, Remainers get a guaranteed ref2 with Remain on the ballot.

Difficult messaging to pull off though.

It’s all about the messaging. There is no room for nuance in politics just now.
I’ve just finished watching ‘The Loudest Voice’ on SKY and one of the things you notice in American politics is they make sure they have a very simple message and then they hammer that message over and over again. Doesn’t seem to matter if it’s true or workable, so long as the viewer at home thinks it sounds good. Johnson has that, Labour don’t.


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[ballengeich]

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It’s all about the messaging. There is no room for nuance in politics just now.
I’ve just finished watching ‘The Loudest Voice’ on SKY and one of the things you notice in American politics is they make sure they have a very simple message and then they hammer that message over and over again. Doesn’t seem to matter if it’s true or workable, so long as the viewer at home thinks it sounds good. Johnson has that, Labour don’t.


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Simplicity isn't enough. It has to pick up a public mood. "Strong and stable" didn't work in 2017.

Johnson as PM gives the other parties an easy target, if they've someone able to take aim.

[Rocky]

If the general election is called after an extension to article 50 has been granted things could get very interesting. With Lib Dems now stating a clear remain position, the leave vote split between Brexit party and Tories, and Labour still trying to straddle the fence, it's perfectly possible that a 30%ish vote share will be enough to win many seats. Lib Dems could conceivably do that in large parts of England by attracting remain voters.

That's my logic behind sticking a tenner on a Lib Dem / SNP coalition government at 50/1 anyway...

[Cataplana]

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It's not that straightforward though is it? What they're saying is that if elected they would negotiate a 'Labour' deal with the EU with a view to then holding a confirmatory referendum - but that the party would still be unable to provide the electorate with a clear stance on Brexit because Corbyn and unions who prop him up are of the view that the large swathes of Labour voting constituencies who voted leave would be lost to the Tories/Brexit Party if they committed to a remain stance (coupled with the fact that Corbyn and Len McCluskey are lifelong Eurosceptic Brexiteers). The likes of Thornberry and McDonnell on the other hand would then campaign against the very deal they'd just negotiated. Hardly a snappy vote-winning strategy.

As Oz says, like him or loathe him, the PM's electoral stance is already nailed down and easy for voters to understand, as is that of the Lib Dems (the only party to actually come out straight and say they want to cancel Brexit completely). Labour on the other hand remain mired in confusion - or dither and delay, as Johnson would say.

You make it sound like the electorate isn't intelligent enough to know what it's voting for. 😜

[G B Young]

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Although I understand the argument that Labour’s latest position lacks clarity, I actually think there’s merit in it. Leavers get a chance to put a single achievable deal to the public, Remainers get a guaranteed ref2 with Remain on the ballot.

Difficult messaging to pull off though.

Especially when just a day later Tom Watson steps in to contradict their already muddled position:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ce-over-brexit

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/990324...mpression=true

Farage names his price. I would think there is no way the Tories can give him that so hopefully he takes the huff and stands candidates everywhere.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Significant news in Edinburgh - Court of Session rules prorogation of Parliament is unlawful. No measure is being made to cancel prorogation - this will go up to the Supreme Court next week.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

[JeMeSouviens]

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Especially when just a day later Tom Watson steps in to contradict their already muddled position:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ce-over-brexit

Yeah, it would be difficult messaging to pull off even if they could all stick to the script for more than 4 or 5 nanoseconds.

[JeMeSouviens]

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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/990324...mpression=true

Farage names his price. I would think there is no way the Tories can give him that so hopefully he takes the huff and stands candidates everywhere.


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Cummings and Farage have a hate-hate relationship too,

[Ozyhibby]

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Significant news in Edinburgh - Court of Session rules prorogation of Parliament is unlawful. No measure is being made to cancel prorogation - this will go up to the Supreme Court next week.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

Tories should take this all the way to the European court.


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[JeMeSouviens]

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tories should take this all the way to the european court.


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lolz

[JeMeSouviens]

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Significant news in Edinburgh - Court of Session rules prorogation of Parliament is unlawful. No measure is being made to cancel prorogation - this will go up to the Supreme Court next week.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

Their lordships of the Inner House manage to spot the bleeding obvious.



Lord Brodie:

This was an egregious case of a clear failure to comply with generally accepted standards of behaviour of public authorities. The principal reasons for the prorogation were to prevent or impede parliament holding the executive to account and legislating with regard to Brexit, and to allow the executive to pursue a policy of a no deal Brexit without further parliamentary interference.

Lord Carloway:

The true reason for the prorogation was to stymie parliamentary scrutiny of the executive, which was a central pillar of the good governance principle enshrined in the constitution; this followed from the principles of democracy and the rule of law.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ideally now the English Tory press will run a "Jocko judges stole our Brexit" front page and Indy gets another step closer.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Their lordships of the Inner House manage to spot the bleeding obvious.



Lord Brodie:




Lord Carloway:

I wonder if that is the same Lord Carloway I knew 40+ years ago? He was an old fashioned toff but quite down to earth at the same time.

Just looked him up, must be the son.

[JeMeSouviens]

Tom Newton-Dunn, political journo for the Sun reports:

Sources in No10 now hitting back at the Scottish judges, suggesting they are politically biased: "We note that last week the High Court in London did not rule that prorogation was unlawful. The legal activists choose the Scottish courts for a reason".

Top Unionism there folks

[Ozyhibby]

Johnson now the first PM in history to be found by a court to have lied to the King or Queen.
I would think that this might turn out to be quite serious.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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Johnson now the first PM in history to be found by a court to have lied to the King or Queen.
I would think that this might turn out to be quite serious.


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🙏🤞

[Hibernia&Alba]

Does Westminster need to wait for the Supreme Court ruling before reconvening, or can it sit in the meantime?

[Callum_62]

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Does Westminster need to wait for the Supreme Court ruling before reconvening, or can it sit in the meantime?

I think it can reconvene but likely to wait until Tuesdays appeal

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[WeeRussell]

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Johnson now the first PM in history to be found by a court to have lied to the King or Queen.
I would think that this might turn out to be quite serious.


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Hung for treason?

[Future17]

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Tom Newton-Dunn, political journo for the Sun reports:




Top Unionism there folks

Perhaps not fully informed either as it makes it sound like the English Court's decision was appealed to the Scottish Court, which isn't what happened...although a cynic may say that could be deliberate.

[BroxburnHibee]

It's likely to be overturned next week though isnt it?

[Jack Hackett]

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Hung for treason?

Being against capital punishment, I feel it would be more appropriate to just bang him in the Tower of London at Her Majies pleasure.

Yet another defeat for the manager of the country. How can he keep his job?

[Hibernia&Alba]

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It's likely to be overturned next week though isnt it?

Don't know how likely it is, but Bozo desperately needs that ruling to go his way. Everything is going against him, which is pleasing.

[Ozyhibby]

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It's likely to be overturned next week though isnt it?

Not sure, the Supreme Court has to respect Scots law as well. If the evidence is there that Johnson mislead the Queen then I would think they would back up the Scottish court. From what I’ve read this morning, the cases in England and Scotland are not quite the same because the law in Scotland is different. It’s possible that the Supreme Court could uphold the English and Scottish decisions.
Or I could have interpreted that all wrong.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.ft.com/content/11983298-...mpression=true


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