Brexit - What Now.

[Mibbes Aye]

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So do you think that Malcolm Chisholm was wrong on the occasions that he voted against his party?

Not my point as well you know

[Since90+2]

To me Boris seems like he is struggling with the pressure and scrutiny already. If , as expected , he loses tonight and Labour don't vote for a General Election then I can see him trying anything to cling onto power including ignoring the legislation.

If that happens I reckon he will bring the whole Conservative party down as even Tory MPs are unlikely to be able to stomach that course of action.

[Curried]

Corbyn may think he’s in a good position, and able to dictate the timing of any election, but I wonder if the SNP could put a spanner in the works if the FTPA could be amended for a 50% majority (possibly at the bequest of a Section 30 order).

[G B Young]

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IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

If that was the case why didn't all the MPs whose constituencies voted for Brexit follow the majority view in their constituencies when it came to voting in Parliament?

They're supposed to represent every constituent whether they voted for them or not - or indeed whether or not they backed Brexit or Scottish independence.

From a Brexit/Scottish perspective it's often overlooked that almost 40% of the electorate voted for Brexit. Not an insignificant minority.

[Peevemor]

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If that was the case why didn't all the MPs whose constituencies voted for Brexit follow the majority view in their constituencies when it came to voting in Parliament?

They're supposed to represent every constituent whether they voted for them or not - or indeed whether or not they backed Brexit or Scottish independence.

From a Brexit/Scottish perspective it's often overlooked that almost 40% of the electorate voted for Brexit. Not an insignificant minority.

Simply because a hard Brexit, which is where Bojo is headed if left to his own devices, isn't what was portrayed to the public at the time of the referendum.

[Ozyhibby]

MP’s should exercise their judgement and vote the way they see fit on any issue.
If they vote consistently in a way that a sufficient number of their constituents don’t like them they will lose the next election. That’s how it works.



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[Hibrandenburg]

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"Represent" doesn't mean slavishly follow the perceived majority view though. Imo they should be using their judgement and the time and resources available to them to decide what they think is the best course of action for their constituents and the wider public.

What's best for:

1. Country
2. Constituents
3. Party

and in that order.

[Moulin Yarns]

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What's best for:

1. Country
2. Constituents
3. Party

and in that order.

Or, if you are a Scottish Conservative mp then it will be

Personal survival

Party

UK

Constituency

[G B Young]

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Simply because a hard Brexit, which is where Bojo is headed if left to his own devices, isn't what was portrayed to the public at the time of the referendum.

Why didn't they vote for May's deal then?

[Smartie]

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Or, if you are a Scottish Conservative mp then it will be

Personal survival

Party

UK

Constituency

I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

[CloudSquall]

Ruth Davidson was all about personal survival, she knew she finally had to face up to defending Boris and a no deal Brexit and shat it big time, relegating herself to the backbenches to protect her reputation for any future comeback.

[Cataplana]

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I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

Hardly a great achievement seeing as that single issue is what they are in existence to achieve.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

You will notice I am not talking about MSPs, I clearly said MPs.

All the Scottish Tories at Westminster voted against the motion last night. That was personal survival first, party second and the good of the country and constituencies a distant last.

[GORDONSMITH7]

I watched the whole PMQ today. Corbyn utterly battered Boris the Buffoon. He never answered once Corbyn 's requesting for publishing documentation regarding shortages in food, medicine etc with a hard brexit. He went mental whilst loosing the arguments. Following this Ian Blackford got the same blistering guff from the boy Boris. Asked about him ensuring the government would support the result tonight. Asked twice. No answer, just rubbish attacks on the Scottish Government. What an arse.

BIG G

[Peevemor]

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Why didn't they vote for May's deal then?

Because the deal wasn't acceptable to them for various reasons - too hard, too soft, backstop, party directives, etc.

[Smartie]

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Hardly a great achievement seeing as that single issue is what they are in existence to achieve.

They are also the government, so have a duty to do what is best for the country in that role. Every individual politician will also have opinions on subjects beyond independence which may or may not conflict.

Taking Brexit for an example, they may at times be conflicted between various shade of softer Brexit or remaining in the EU which would be better for the country, or a harder Brexit which may make independence more likely.

[Cataplana]

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I watched the whole PMQ today. Corbyn utterly battered Boris the Buffoon. He never answered once Corbyn 's requesting for publishing documentation regarding shortages in food, medicine etc with a hard brexit. He went mental whilst loosing the arguments. Following this Ian Blackford got the same blistering guff from the boy Boris. Asked about him ensuring the government would support the result tonight. Asked twice. No answer, just rubbish attacks on the Scottish Government. What an arse.

BIG G

The thing is, we are not Boris' target audience. That sort of thing will play well in the Shires.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Ruth Davidson was all about personal survival, she knew she finally had to face up to defending Boris and a no deal Brexit and shat it big time, relegating herself to the backbenches to protect her reputation for any future comeback.

The Tories were going to drop back in Scotland anyway. Ruth getting her resignation in avoids her brand being tainted with this failure.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

Nationalists in Scotland believe self determination is the best thing for the country, it's also what their constituents voted them in to do and there's an argument to be made that it could destroy their party if they are successful. All in all they would stand up well to Churchill's thoughts on the priority of duties for members of parliament.

[lapsedhibee]

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The thing is, we are not Boris' target audience. That sort of thing will play well in the Shires.

I'm not sure that calling Corbyn a girl's blouse, if that's reported, will necessarily play too well with everyone in the shires. The rubber bath toy is struggling.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I'm not sure that calling Corbyn a girl's blouse, if that's reported, will necessarily play too well with everyone in the shires. The rubber bath toy is struggling.

Even in the Shires I think going from "I don't want an election, you don't want an election" to screaming "give us an election you big girl's blouse" across the chamber in a couple of days makes you look a total dick.

[Cataplana]

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Even in the Shires I think going from "I don't want an election, you don't want an election" to screaming "give us an election you big girl's blouse" across the chamber in a couple of days makes you look a total dick.

I am minded to agree. Looking forward to tonight's TV news.

[JeMeSouviens]

Labour split again apparently (groan). The Leader's Office, ie. Milne, Murphy and the other Stalinists, want to agree to an October 15th election as soon as the Benn bill is signed and sealed. Starmer, McDonnell and most MPs want to wait until an extension is secured.

Tweets from Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford calling for the Corbynista position. All other oppo parties in the Starmer camp.

I must say I can't see the motivation (other than impatience) not to let Johnson stew in his own juice.

[xyz23jc]

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Even in the Shires I think going from "I don't want an election, you don't want an election" to screaming "give us an election you big girl's blouse" across the chamber in a couple of days makes you look a total dick.

We thought that too with the Donald..... And look what happened! 😱

[Cataplana]

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I'm not sure that calling Corbyn a girl's blouse, if that's reported, will necessarily play too well with everyone in the shires. The rubber bath toy is struggling.

It wasn't audible, but lip readers would have no trouble.

[G B Young]

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Because the deal wasn't acceptable to them for various reasons - too hard, too soft, backstop, party directives, etc.

Or alternatively they simply think they know better than their constituents and will find any number of reasons to vote down ANY deal. From that perspective you can see why the PM is taking the course of action he is because no deal looks to be the only way Brexit can ever happen.

I can't muster much sympathy for the Tory MPs who lost the whip. They've fallen on their swords for what? The right to kick Brexit down the road for another three months (and likely more)? Johnson gets flak for not providing evidence of what progress has been made with the EU to secure a new deal, yet those who portraying themselves as the heroic good guys battling no deal have also failed to provide any indication that they can come up with an alternative.

Can you imagine the furore of the Scottish independence referendum result had gone the other way and three and a half years later we were still part of the UK? Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace over this whole shambles. The whole lot of them should lose the whip.

[G B Young]

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It wasn't audible, but lip readers would have no trouble.

Bit like Corbyn calling May a 'stupid woman' at PMQs despite claiming he said 'stupid people'. Mind you, if that's what the PM did say then I'd be surprised if he denied it as he tends to throw that sort of language around unashamedly.

Talking of Corbyn, the fact this whole sorry mess has contrived to make him look vaguely statesmanlike sums up how desperate things have got

[Callum_62]

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Or alternatively they simply think they know better than their constituents and will find any number of reasons to vote down ANY deal. From that perspective you can see why the PM is taking the course of action he is because no deal looks to be the only way Brexit can ever happen.

I can't muster much sympathy for the Tory MPs who lost the whip. They've fallen on their swords for what? The right to kick Brexit down the road for another three months (and likely more)? Johnson gets flak for not providing evidence of what progress has been made with the EU to secure a new deal, yet those who portraying themselves as the heroic good guys battling no deal have also failed to provide any indication that they can come up with an alternative.

Can you imagine the furore of the Scottish independence referendum result had gone the other way and three and a half years later we were still part of the UK? Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace over this whole shambles. The whole lot of them should lose the whip.

Parliament were put in an impossible situation by the lying of the leave side which promised the world

It can't happen. The only solution was a soft brexit, which was ruled out all the way by the tories

Blaming parliment for trying to mitigate the loss of jobs and income is, IMHO, wrong

Edit - the silly, simplistic, open. Ended referendum question to a wholly complex situation didn't help

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[greenlex]

General election with parties putting Brexit soft or no deal or remain via a people’s vote in their manifesto. That will get the debate moving.

[Cataplana]

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General election with parties putting Brexit soft or no deal or remain via a people’s vote in their manifesto. That will get the debate moving.

No deal isn't possible now.