Brexit - What Now.

[Fife-Hibee]

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You are falling for sectarian politics I suspect.

There are many Remainers on either side who could stomach Harman or Clarke if it meant avoiding the cataclysm, but crucially what also unites them is a complete lack of trust in Corbyn.

That mistrust is less about his competence, though he has repeatedly shown he is incompetent, it is more to do with him being happy to allow Brexit to happen in the first place.

What makes you so sure that a Conservative or a "moderate" can be trusted anymore than Corbyn to stand in the way of Brexit?

Those who genuinely want to stop a hard brexit will unite behind anyone (including Corbyn) to prevent it. The "anyone but Corbyn" brigade really aren't that bothered about stopping it.

[Colr]

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What makes you so sure that a Conservative or a "moderate" can be trusted anymore than Corbyn to stand in the way of Brexit?

Those who genuinely want to stop a hard brexit will unite behind anyone (including Corbyn) to prevent it. The "anyone but Corbyn" brigade really aren't that bothered about stopping it.

No point in replacing one disaster with another one.

Corbyn’s thirst for power is the only thing stopping this happening.

He needs to step aside or (once again) him and his canal will be facilitating Brexit - and it won’t be forgotten!!

[Fife-Hibee]

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No point in replacing one disaster with another one.

Corbyn’s thirst for power is the only thing stopping this happening.

He needs to step aside or (once again) him and his canal will be facilitating Brexit - and it won’t be forgotten!!

That's where you're wrong. He doesn't need to step aside. No politician ever needs to step aside. If the party wants rid of him so badly, they can force him out democratically.

Corbyn isn't anti Corbyn and obviously doesn't want himself to be replaced by a tory. So why doesn't Jo Swinson offer up her job instead, seeing as it's what she wants? Is it possible that her "thirst for power" prevents her from doing so?

[CloudSquall]

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My son has just described her as a female Macron. Fair comment?

Add Poundland before female and he's not far off.

[Jack]

The big 2 are in turmoil over Brexit.

The solution for this situation would be to have a temporary prime minister from a party that has always been against Brexit that would allow these parties to continue their internal squabbles while not murdering the country.

Step forward Hibernian FC MP, Ian Blackford.

[Fife-Hibee]

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The big 2 are in turmoil over Brexit.

The solution for this situation would be to have a temporary prime minister from a party that has always been against Brexit that would allow these parties to continue their internal squabbles while not murdering the country.

Step forward Hibernian FC MP, Ian Blackford.

That'll go down well.

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm beginning to think the brexit result was the plan all along (regardless of how people actually voted) in order to pander to American interests. Isn't it odd that the Americans were just waiting to set up a trade deal? It's as if they anticipated all of this.

There's been talk of Russian interference, but I think that's just a cover. It's been America all along.

[Just Alf]

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That'll go down well.

It's a sort of win win in a way, whichever UK party has the temporary PM which stops brexit will lose all their brexiteer support, let the SNP have the figurehead PM then on one hand they probably won't loose too many votes and on the other if/when Scotland gets independence it won't matter anyway, the rUK Parties won't be tainted (or at least they'll all be tainted to the same degree).

Sorted!

[G B Young]

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What makes you so sure that a Conservative or a "moderate" can be trusted anymore than Corbyn to stand in the way of Brexit?

Those who genuinely want to stop a hard brexit will unite behind anyone (including Corbyn) to prevent it. The "anyone but Corbyn" brigade really aren't that bothered about stopping it.

The reason a more 'moderate' option, such as the mooted joint Labour/Conservative Harman/Clarke combo, would instil greater trust than Corbyn is pretty obvious. Both Harman and Clarke are long-standing supporters of the EU, both have years of experience in high office and would command a wide spectrum of respect and support across the house. Corbyn can offer none of these things and can't command the support of his own party, let alone the house. Aside from his muddled stance on Europe, his motives are solely about grasping power by any means possible. That is why anyone with a genuine desire to stop a hard Brexit will not back him. What's required is somebody with no ambition beyond stopping a no deal exit, which is why the likes of Harman and Clarke would fit the bill.

A more divisive figure than Boris is the last thing that's required at a time when cross-party unity is key - and whatever anyone's personal opinion of her, Swinson was correct to lead the calls to reject his scheme out of hand.

[Ozyhibby]

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The reason a more 'moderate' option, such as the mooted joint Labour/Conservative Harman/Clarke combo, would instil greater trust than Corbyn is pretty obvious. Both Harman and Clarke are long-standing supporters of the EU, both have years of experience in high office and would command a wide spectrum of respect and support across the house. Corbyn can offer none of these things and can't command the support of his own party, let alone the house. Aside from his muddled stance on Europe, his motives are solely about grasping power by any means possible. That is why anyone with a genuine desire to stop a hard Brexit will not back him. What's required is somebody with no ambition beyond stopping a no deal exit, which is why the likes of Harman and Clarke would fit the bill.

A more divisive figure than Boris is the last thing that's required at a time when cross-party unity is key - and whatever anyone's personal opinion of her, Swinson was correct to lead the calls to reject his scheme out of hand.

100% agree but Swinson should have handled it better by offering talks right away rather than attacking Corbyn.


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[Mr Grieves]

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The reason a more 'moderate' option, such as the mooted joint Labour/Conservative Harman/Clarke combo, would instil greater trust than Corbyn is pretty obvious. Both Harman and Clarke are long-standing supporters of the EU, both have years of experience in high office and would command a wide spectrum of respect and support across the house. Corbyn can offer none of these things and can't command the support of his own party, let alone the house. Aside from his muddled stance on Europe, his motives are solely about grasping power by any means possible. That is why anyone with a genuine desire to stop a hard Brexit will not back him. What's required is somebody with no ambition beyond stopping a no deal exit, which is why the likes of Harman and Clarke would fit the bill.

A more divisive figure than Boris is the last thing that's required at a time when cross-party unity is key - and whatever anyone's personal opinion of her, Swinson was correct to lead the calls to reject his scheme out of hand.

As leader of the opposition Corbyn is within his rights to try to form a government should a vote of no confidence pass. I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's said or done the last few days....BUT I agree that a national unity government led by Clarke/Harman would be preferable. Having a Tory as PM would be best (never thought I would say that ), as it would give BJ/Cummings/Tory leavers less ammunition.

[Glory Lurker]

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The reason a more 'moderate' option, such as the mooted joint Labour/Conservative Harman/Clarke combo, would instil greater trust than Corbyn is pretty obvious. Both Harman and Clarke are long-standing supporters of the EU, both have years of experience in high office and would command a wide spectrum of respect and support across the house. Corbyn can offer none of these things and can't command the support of his own party, let alone the house. Aside from his muddled stance on Europe, his motives are solely about grasping power by any means possible. That is why anyone with a genuine desire to stop a hard Brexit will not back him. What's required is somebody with no ambition beyond stopping a no deal exit, which is why the likes of Harman and Clarke would fit the bill.

A more divisive figure than Boris is the last thing that's required at a time when cross-party unity is key - and whatever anyone's personal opinion of her, Swinson was correct to lead the calls to reject his scheme out of hand.

Corbyn more divisive than Johnson (you use the affectionate "Boris")? Really? And who cares, if him being in charge convinces the big boys in this debate, the EU, to give us more time to extract ourselves from this clusterflip? Because, what seems to be being overlooked in all this UK navel gazing is that it's not in our gift to avoid a no deal brexit by calling a general election, yadah, yadah. We are out on 31/10.

Get Corbyn in. Show the EU there's been a seismic change. We MIGHT get more time to sort it out. Swinson is trying to break the Labour Party when she should only have one target - stop Brexit. She is a Tory-enabling charlatan.

[Mr Grieves]

This is ****ing madness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

'The dossier reported by the Sunday Times says leaving the EU without a deal could lead to:

Fresh food becoming less available and prices rising
A hard Irish border after plans to avoid checks fail, sparking protests
Fuel becoming less available and 2,000 jobs could be lost if the government sets petrol import tariffs to 0%, potentially causing two oil refineries to close
UK patients having to wait longer for medicines, including insulin and flu vaccines
A rise in public disorder and community tensions resulting from a shortage of food and drugs
Passengers delayed at EU airports, Eurotunnel and Dover
Freight disruption at ports lasting up to three months, caused by customs checks, before traffic flow improves to 50-70% of the current rate'

[Callum_62]

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This is ****ing madness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

'The dossier reported by the Sunday Times says leaving the EU without a deal could lead to:

Fresh food becoming less available and prices rising
A hard Irish border after plans to avoid checks fail, sparking protests
Fuel becoming less available and 2,000 jobs could be lost if the government sets petrol import tariffs to 0%, potentially causing two oil refineries to close
UK patients having to wait longer for medicines, including insulin and flu vaccines
A rise in public disorder and community tensions resulting from a shortage of food and drugs
Passengers delayed at EU airports, Eurotunnel and Dover
Freight disruption at ports lasting up to three months, caused by customs checks, before traffic flow improves to 50-70% of the current rate'

Project fear

Then when it happens - EUs fault

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[CloudSquall]

The bulldog spirit that saw us prevail in the Battle of Britain will see the grand old ship of Britannia weather the storm and return us to the glorious days of the Empire.

© DailyHeil

[ballengeich]

If Johnson was serious about wanting to leave with a deal he would be putting an alternative to the backstop to the EU and asking for an extension to the exit date to allow time for negotiation and agreement. Unless there are behind the scenes discussions going on which completely contradict his public statements I believe he has no-deal as his goal, probably followed by a general election to be held before the consequences really sink in, blaming the EU for any problems.

His negotiating position can be summed up as - if you don't agree to everything I ask for I'm going to jump into a cess pit. A few splashes might reach you, and it'll be your fault that I don't smell nice.

[Fife-Hibee]

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If Johnson was serious about wanting to leave with a deal he would be putting an alternative to the backstop to the EU and asking for an extension to the exit date to allow time for negotiation and agreement. Unless there are behind the scenes discussions going on which completely contradict his public statements I believe he has no-deal as his goal, probably followed by a general election to be held before the consequences really sink in, blaming the EU for any problems.

His negotiating position can be summed up as - if you don't agree to everything I ask for I'm going to jump into a cess pit. A few splashes might reach you, and it'll be your fault that I don't smell nice.

It's not just Boris Johnsons goal. It has been the general goal of the UK Government, US Government and Russian Government working in collaboration. Theresa May was just a side show to make it look like they were trying to get a deal, as they knew the vast majority of the general public would never back a hard brexit. So they have to make it look like a blunder instead. But make no mistake, this was all by design.

[Moulin Yarns]

Some more talks due next week. tick, tock

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

[Jack Hackett]

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Project fear

Then when it happens - EUs fault

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Bang on cue

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...brexit-report/

[RyeSloan]

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This is ****ing madness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

'The dossier reported by the Sunday Times says leaving the EU without a deal could lead to:

Fresh food becoming less available and prices rising
A hard Irish border after plans to avoid checks fail, sparking protests
Fuel becoming less available and 2,000 jobs could be lost if the government sets petrol import tariffs to 0%, potentially causing two oil refineries to close
UK patients having to wait longer for medicines, including insulin and flu vaccines
A rise in public disorder and community tensions resulting from a shortage of food and drugs
Passengers delayed at EU airports, Eurotunnel and Dover
Freight disruption at ports lasting up to three months, caused by customs checks, before traffic flow improves to 50-70% of the current rate'

Yet the head of french ports sounds rather more relaxed about the whole affair..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews...es-france/amp/

[lapsedhibee]

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Yet the head of french ports sounds rather more relaxed about the whole affair..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews...es-france/amp/

Even if we had a government that knew what it was doing, there would be teething problems. To pretend as the Frenchman does that no-one will even notice anything, c'est la bull****. I wonder if the Telegraph has reported what he said accurately.

[RyeSloan]

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Even if we had a government that knew what it was doing, there would be teething problems. To pretend as the Frenchman does that no-one will even notice anything, c'est la bull****. I wonder if the Telegraph has reported what he said accurately.

Well I haven’t seen him or anyone else suggesting that he was mis quoted.

And while I get what you are saying I’m not quite sure you can be sure he is ‘pretending’. He does appear to be the dude that would and should know his onions regarding such things.

Anyway I’m not suggesting he is right or wrong just thought it was useful as some balance to the Treasuries scenarios that, like the BoE’s previous stuff, get picked up and presented as some sort of fact or prediction when they are quite clearly not.

[lapsedhibee]

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Anyway I’m not suggesting he is right or wrong just thought it was useful as some balance to the Treasuries scenarios that, like the BoE’s previous stuff, get picked up and presented as some sort of fact or prediction when they are quite clearly not.

Shirley they are some sort of prediction, non? But agree that the short-term catastrophism is a bit overplayed. (I'm old enough to remember the millennium bug.)

What's possibly underplayed is the longer-term catastrophe of allowing the current government-by-lies model to have its way, without proper opposition, and thereby flourish. There lies genuine danger.

[RyeSloan]

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Shirley they are some sort of prediction, non? But agree that the short-term catastrophism is a bit overplayed. (I'm old enough to remember the millennium bug.)

What's possibly underplayed is the longer-term catastrophe of allowing the current government-by-lies model to have its way, without proper opposition, and thereby flourish. There lies genuine danger.

Ahh governments that don’t lie and a proper opposition....now there is something I can predict is somewhat unlikely

[Moulin Yarns]

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Ahh governments that don’t lie and a proper opposition....now there is something I can predict is somewhat unlikely

I wonder when Pinocchio got a job in the government


https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1163060170395660288?s=19

[Mr Grieves]

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Yet the head of french ports sounds rather more relaxed about the whole affair..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews...es-france/amp/

Quite. It's totally worth exposing ourselves to these risks to reach the Brexit sunlit uplands, the positives of which we'll find out soon enough.

[Mr Grieves]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49387542

More money being wasted because the UK government have put us in this situation. What is the point? How is a no deal brexit going to improve my life?

[lapsedhibee]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49387542

More money being wasted because the UK government have put us in this situation. What is the point? How is a no deal brexit going to improve my life?

You'll be able to use 3-pin plugs.

[Jack Hackett]

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You'll be able to use 3-pin plugs.

Only on days when the power is on

[Moulin Yarns]

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Only on days when the power is on

All days without a Y in it.