Bus drivers strike

[Fife-Hibee]

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I know people who work there. There's lots of examples of really dodgy goings on. Do you think it would be wise given the current culture at Lothian and given someone has already been sacked for stuff online to come on here and give details?



In my opinion you're one of the most unbalanced posters on this site.

Still not getting the details.

The "I ken somebody who once said this about that" argument is hardly convincing.

[danhibees1875]

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Still not getting the details.

The "I ken somebody who once said this about that" argument is hardly convincing.

You won't get your details. On the balance of play do you not think it's more likely than not at this point though? Or do you think they're just going on strike for a laugh?

"The weather's nice this Friday, let's say there's a bad bullying culture here and just get down the beach. Which bus is to to Portobello?"

[we are hibs]

I see they are drawing up plans to bring in drivers from elsewhere according to the evening news.

[Fife-Hibee]

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You won't get your details. On the balance of play do you not think it's more likely than not at this point though? Or do you think they're just going on strike for a laugh?

"The weather's nice this Friday, let's say there's a bad bullying culture here and just get down the beach. Which bus is to to Portobello?"

They may well feel bullied. But "feeling" bullied and actually being bullied as it's defined in law are 2 different things. There's no evidence to suggest that they're given any more of a hard time than employees in other fields of work.

So far i've heard of one sacking. Something I believe would have happened in almost any other line of work had the same situation occured.

Being told to wear ties and clothing that are representative of the company they work for? Those poor poor souls.

[danhibees1875]

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They may well feel bullied. But "feeling" bullied and actually being bullied as it's defined in law are 2 different things. There's no evidence to suggest that they're given any more of a hard time than employees in other fields of work.

So far i've heard of one sacking. Something I believe would have happened in almost any other line of work had the same situation occured.

Being told to wear ties and clothing that are representative of the company they work for? Those poor poor souls.

I don't see why they'd go on strike over nothing though. They're not making loads of money, they'll be quite reliant on their income and yet a very high majority of them have decided to go on strike. That surely shows there's something that's quite wrong going on.

That's "evidence which suggests" they're being given a harder time than other people in other jobs.

Out of interest, do you have something against bus drivers?

[Fife-Hibee]

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I don't see why they'd go on strike over nothing though. They're not making loads of money, they'll be quite reliant on their income and yet a very high majority of them have decided to go on strike. That surely shows there's something that's quite wrong going on.

That's "evidence which suggests" they're being given a harder time than other people in other jobs.

Out of interest, do you have something against bus drivers?

If they have a reason for this, then let it be known to the public. Surely people who rely on bus services to get around have a right to know why that won't be an option for them due to this strike?

I have nothing against bus drivers personally. I do however realize that they're not all wonderful people. Some of them are complete twats. Which can be said about employees in every different sector.

[Hibbyradge]

[Hibrandenburg]

Let's be honest, a strike would be useless if it didn't cause inconvenience. Maybe folks will now reflect on the excellent service these guys provide.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Let's be honest, a strike would be useless if it didn't cause inconvenience. Maybe folks will now reflect on the excellent service these guys provide.

But fundamentally useless when it causes an inconvenience to people who have no idea what the strike is even for or trying to achieve.

If you want to get the public on side with a strike, you've got to be transparent with them about it. A strike without explaination will have the opposite effect.

[danhibees1875]

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If they have a reason for this, then let it be known to the public. Surely people who rely on bus services to get around have a right to know why that won't be an option for them due to this strike?

I have nothing against bus drivers personally. I do however realize that they're not all wonderful people. Some of them are complete twats. Which can be said about employees in every different sector.

There's no rule that says they have to let the public know. It would be nice to know out of nosiness I agree, but I don't see how it makes any difference to you or I.

I'd be confident that there's enough internal discussion and those that need to know what's happening do know. If it's not as simple as wanting a "5% pay increase" then they've maybe decided to just not bother publicising the issues/wants incase it leads to confusion and crossed messages which turn the public against them.

[Hibrandenburg]

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But fundamentally useless when it causes an inconvenience to people who have no idea what the strike is even for or trying to achieve.

If you want to get the public on side with a strike, you've got to be transparent with them about it. A strike without explaination will have the opposite effect.

I don't even live in Edinburgh but I know what it's about.

[Fife-Hibee]

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There's no rule that says they have to let the public know. It would be nice to know out of nosiness I agree, but I don't see how it makes any difference to you or I.

I'd be confident that there's enough internal discussion and those that need to know what's happening do know. If it's not as simple as wanting a "5% pay increase" then they've maybe decided to just not bother publicising the issues/wants incase it leads to confusion and crossed messages which turn the public against them.

Well surely they would have some sort of body or representative leading the strike. So confusion and crossed messages shouldn't be an issue. They could release an official statement. They don't have to go hugely in depth. Just give the public something.

Holding a strike shrouded in secrecy can only work in favour of the management they're stiking against.

[Fife-Hibee]

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I don't even live in Edinburgh but I know what it's about.

What is it about? Bullying? There's been no real actual examples provided of this apparent bullying. So how can we accurately determine whether the claim of bullying is even justified or not?

[Hibrandenburg]

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What is it about? Bullying? There's been no real actual examples provided of this apparent bullying. So how can we accurately determine whether the claim of bullying is even justified or not?

So you want details about what could be an international disciplinary matter? The information is out there but the company and union are correct not to openly discuss an on going investigation.

[Cataplana]

Can I be the first to say that although the management are going to hire scab drivers, we can't be certain that this is the case, and should consider that there may be other explanations?

At the same time we should examine our consciences closely as to whether or not we agree with the term scab, as neither the management, or the union, or the public has appeared in print to say exactly what a scab is. There could be other explanations for this so called scab activity, and we shouldn't just jump on the bandwagon based on what we have been told a scab is all of our lives.

For all we know, the limited number of people we have spoken to since birth, may all actually be wrong, and that the management are perfectly entitled to bring in alternative solutions to their drivers withdrawing their labour in this reckless, foolhardy and sociopathic manner. If anybody fancies it wouldn't be unreasonable to go round to their houses, and throw bricks at the window, or worse.

I'm not taking sides in this at all.

[danhibees1875]

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Well surely they would have some sort of body or representative leading the strike. So confusion and crossed messages shouldn't be an issue. They could release an official statement. They don't have to go hugely in depth. Just give the public something.

Holding a strike shrouded in secrecy can only work in favour of the management they're stiking against.

I think they have done that.

"Drivers threatened strike action over what they claim is "hostile" and "bullying" management at Lothian buses - as well as poor workplace relations"

That's the second paragraph from the first article you get when you Google "Lothian buses strike".

That's a quick summary for the public for the reasons they're striking. If you read a bit further then you see that it's not financially motivated as they reject a pay increase which backs that up.

So we know they're striking as a result of having a poor relationship with management that has led to a hostile environment with instances of bullying. I don't know why you'd expect to know more on the matter.

[Lester B]

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So you want details about what could be an international disciplinary matter? The information is out there but the company and union are correct not to openly discuss an on going investigation.

Precisely! Beat me to it!

[Lester B]

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Well surely they would have some sort of body or representative leading the strike. So confusion and crossed messages shouldn't be an issue. They could release an official statement. They don't have to go hugely in depth. Just give the public something.

Holding a strike shrouded in secrecy can only work in favour of the management they're stiking against.

This answers all of your increasingly ridiculous grasping attempts at wilful contrarianism. For this post at least

https://unitetheunion.org/news-event...to-take-place/

I should really take Hibbyradge's advice and not feed the troll.

But I'm a full time union official and your absurd series of comments really riles me. You know nothing about this and are resistant to reasonable explanations from those who do. If I know nothing or little about a subject I either keep quiet or listen to those who have more knowledge or experience. You should do the same. But you don't. You want to appear at expert at every subject through continually asking questions already answered or playing some simplistic form of devil's advocate. I fear though that the more people who try to point this out, the more you are convinced that your points are right and valid. At some point in this thread you crossed the line from hubris to full blown narcissism.

People do not vote to take industrial action, with a high turnout and majority, for no reason. They lose pay and it creates a division between colleagues at work. Full detailed explanations of the issues concerned when parties are in dispute cannot and should not be aired in public.

[Hibbyradge]

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This answers all of your increasingly ridiculous grasping attempts at wilful contrarianism. For this post at least

https://unitetheunion.org/news-event...to-take-place/

I should really take Hibbyradge's advice and not feed the troll.

But I'm a full time union official and your absurd series of comments really riles me. You know nothing about this and are resistant to reasonable explanations from those who do. If I know nothing or little about a subject I either keep quiet or listen to those who have more knowledge or experience. You should do the same. But you don't. You want to appear at expert at every subject through continually asking questions already answered or playing some simplistic form of devil's advocate. I fear though that the more people who try to point this out, the more you are convinced that your points are right and valid. At some point in this thread you crossed the line from hubris to full blown narcissism.

People do not vote to take industrial action, with a high turnout and majority, for no reason. They lose pay and it creates a division between colleagues at work. Full detailed explanations of the issues concerned when parties are in dispute cannot and should not be aired in public.

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder with a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterised by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, excessive need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.

Donald Trump has this disorder.

Just saying.

[Cataplana]

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This answers all of your increasingly ridiculous grasping attempts at wilful contrarianism. For this post at least

https://unitetheunion.org/news-event...to-take-place/

I should really take Hibbyradge's advice and not feed the troll.

But I'm a full time union official and your absurd series of comments really riles me. You know nothing about this and are resistant to reasonable explanations from those who do. If I know nothing or little about a subject I either keep quiet or listen to those who have more knowledge or experience. You should do the same. But you don't. You want to appear at expert at every subject through continually asking questions already answered or playing some simplistic form of devil's advocate. I fear though that the more people who try to point this out, the more you are convinced that your points are right and valid. At some point in this thread you crossed the line from hubris to full blown narcissism.

People do not vote to take industrial action, with a high turnout and majority, for no reason. They lose pay and it creates a division between colleagues at work. Full detailed explanations of the issues concerned when parties are in dispute cannot and should not be aired in public.

You should look on the bright side. Every time he raises one of his "points", it's shot down in flames.

Although he says he isn't taking sides, his every utterance digs the management into a deeper hole. You can't buy publicity like that.

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Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder with a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterised by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, excessive need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Donald Trump has this disorder.

Just saying.

Is Donald Trump from Leven? Who knew?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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This answers all of your increasingly ridiculous grasping attempts at wilful contrarianism. For this post at least

https://unitetheunion.org/news-event...to-take-place/

I should really take Hibbyradge's advice and not feed the troll.

But I'm a full time union official and your absurd series of comments really riles me. You know nothing about this and are resistant to reasonable explanations from those who do. If I know nothing or little about a subject I either keep quiet or listen to those who have more knowledge or experience. You should do the same. But you don't. You want to appear at expert at every subject through continually asking questions already answered or playing some simplistic form of devil's advocate. I fear though that the more people who try to point this out, the more you are convinced that your points are right and valid. At some point in this thread you crossed the line from hubris to full blown narcissism.

People do not vote to take industrial action, with a high turnout and majority, for no reason. They lose pay and it creates a division between colleagues at work. Full detailed explanations of the issues concerned when parties are in dispute cannot and should not be aired in public.

Do you know what the drivers demands are? We know they’re being bullied but not what they’re striking for - do they want someone sacked?

Surely as a full time union official you’d go into a negotiation with an outcome in mind?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Do you know what the drivers demands are? We know they’re being bullied but not what they’re striking for - do they want someone sacked?

Surely as a full time union official you’d go into a negotiation with an outcome in mind?

Apparently that isn't important information. We've all to get behind the drivers and support their strike action with no understanding of what the aim of the strike action is supposed to be.

[Cataplana]

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Do you know what the drivers demands are? We know they’re being bullied but not what they’re striking for - do they want someone sacked?

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Surely as a full time union official you’d go into a negotiation with an outcome in mind?

I don't think it is best practice to reveal your objectives, and fall back positions to the other side before going into a negotiation. But, broadly they have outlined where they want to be in the statement below.

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Apparently that isn't important information. We've all to get behind the drivers and support their strike action with no understanding of what the aim of the strike action is supposed to be.

They have made it clear what the strike is about.

The dispute stems from poor workplace relations and a hostile culture at Lothian Buses by management where procedural agreements have not been adhered to impacting directly on the terms and conditions of Unite’s membership. Previous talks in April at Acas broke down due to the failure by Lothian Buses management to seriously consider implementing remedial measures to improve the workplace culture.

Why are you deliberately ignoring the answers to questions you ask?

[Hibrandenburg]

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Apparently that isn't important information. We've all to get behind the drivers and support their strike action with no understanding of what the aim of the strike action is supposed to be.

Nobody is saying it isn't important, it's just highly likely confidential at this point and rightly so. Also it would be absolute madness to divulge a negotiating strategy and desired outcome at the table, never mind making it public information.

[ronaldo7]

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This answers all of your increasingly ridiculous grasping attempts at wilful contrarianism. For this post at least

https://unitetheunion.org/news-event...to-take-place/

I should really take Hibbyradge's advice and not feed the troll.

But I'm a full time union official and your absurd series of comments really riles me. You know nothing about this and are resistant to reasonable explanations from those who do. If I know nothing or little about a subject I either keep quiet or listen to those who have more knowledge or experience. You should do the same. But you don't. You want to appear at expert at every subject through continually asking questions already answered or playing some simplistic form of devil's advocate. I fear though that the more people who try to point this out, the more you are convinced that your points are right and valid. At some point in this thread you crossed the line from hubris to full blown narcissism.

People do not vote to take industrial action, with a high turnout and majority, for no reason. They lose pay and it creates a division between colleagues at work. Full detailed explanations of the issues concerned when parties are in dispute cannot and should not be aired in public.

He could always contact, Lyn Turner, for more information.

[Fife-Hibee]

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They have made it clear what the strike is about.

Why are you deliberately ignoring the answers to questions you ask?

Because it doesn't answer the question. What are they trying to achieve with this strike action?

Statements like "poor workplace relations" and "hostile culture by management" doesn't really tell us anything without any proper context.

What are they doing that is deemed "hostile"? How do you improve "workplace relations" in a job where you're working on your own at least several hours everyday?

[Lester B]

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I don't think it is best practice to reveal your objectives, and fall back positions to the other side before going into a negotiation. But, broadly they have outlined where they want to be in the statement below.

They have made it clear what the strike is about.



Why are you deliberately ignoring the answers to questions you ask?

Beaten to it and couldn't have put it better!

[Lester B]

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Because it doesn't answer the question. What are they trying to achieve with this strike action?

Statements like "poor workplace relations" and "hostile culture by management" doesn't really tell us anything without any proper context.

What are they doing that is deemed "hostile"? How do you improve "workplace relations" in a job where you're working on your own at least several hours everyday?

It does answer the question. You just don't like it. Or understand it.

What are they trying to achieve? They are asking management "to seriously consider implementing remedial measures to improve the workplace culture."

You want more info than is allowed by the very nature of workplace disputes. I've heard stuff from people wanting something along the lines of 'proper context' before. Invariably it's from someone who wants gossip or insider info. Not constructive.

Your final sentence is a new low in absurdity, even for you.

[Lester B]

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He could always contact, Lyn Turner, for more information.

He could but I suspect she has more important things to do than deal with crank calls. Message boards are more forgiving

[Hibrandenburg]

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Because it doesn't answer the question. What are they trying to achieve with this strike action?

Statements like "poor workplace relations" and "hostile culture by management" doesn't really tell us anything without any proper context.

What are they doing that is deemed "hostile"? How do you improve "workplace relations" in a job where you're working on your own at least several hours everyday?

It really isn't worth the effort answering your posts because you completely ignore any answer you get. Why do you feel entitled to get confidential information?