Bus drivers strike

[Fife-Hibee]

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The management will play the wage rise card, joe public will be up in arms because those greedy ****ing bus drivers wont accept a wage rise, although all Ive heard so far is about management bullying so hopefully the public will see the real reason for the strike and not that of a **** bag management

Are you suggesting that teachers weren't really after a payrise when the public accused them of getting greedy? Because i'm pretty sure they were.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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I'm guessing they are looking for respect. It appears they haven't been treated that way, and want more than lip service.

It seems that the management have taken them for granted, and seen them as weak an ineffective. A strike is an opportunity to show them they have power in the relationship too.

That’s what it sounds like - normally when a strike is called you get to hear what the demands are (eg reinstate my final salary pension, give me a payrise, more holidays or whatever). With this one it’s not clear what they want and if it’s respect they want.

A lot of rumours about bullying but not heard many specifics, if they are being bullied they deserve support and if they go ahead with the strike the public shouldn’t use the limited service that will be out.

[Fife-Hibee]

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That’s what it sounds like - normally when a strike is called you get to hear what the demands are (eg reinstate my final salary pension, give me a payrise, more holidays or whatever). With this one it’s not clear what they want and if it’s respect they want.

A lot of rumours about bullying but not heard many specifics, if they are being bullied they deserve support and if they go ahead with the strike the public shouldn’t use the limited service that will be out.

What about those who don't or can't drive? How are they supposed to get to work? The bus drivers aren't going to gain much public sympathy if they can't be clear about what they're trying to achieve with such a strike.

[speedy_gonzales]

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What about those who don't or can't drive? How are they supposed to get to work?

Walk, cycle, use another bus provider, take a train. There are a few options to consider.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Walk, cycle, use another bus provider, take a train. There are a few options to consider.

Not everybody is in walking distance of their work. Not everybody is able to cycle to their work either. You also assume that an alternative bus provider or train is an available option to all. It isn't.

Telling people to boycott a service due to a strike that nobody really knows any of the details behind is ridiculous.

[MSK]

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Are you suggesting that teachers weren't really after a payrise when the public accused them of getting greedy? Because i'm pretty sure they were.

Did I mention Teachers ? Again you are spinning this to suit yer own agenda, Ive followed a lot of threads on here with your input and I honestly cant understand why folk waste their ****ing time attempting to debate with you, well Im certainly not, you crack on 👍

[Fife-Hibee]

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Did I mention Teachers ? Again you are spinning this to suit yer own agenda, Ive followed a lot of threads on here with your input and I honestly cant understand why folk waste their ****ing time attempting to debate with you, well Im certainly not, you crack on 👍

Then why did you make that point then? Why would the public automatically assume that they are after more money? What is your basis for this claim?

[McD]

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Sometimes in a work place it's not always easy to express perfect examples of bullying and harassment but it's still evident it exists.

A few years ago I worked for a business that was bought over. The new owner brought in his own GM who in turn brought in his own team, that's fair enough. The culture of the whole business completely changed and long serving members of staff were increasingly isolated and ostracised. We had a group of casual staff who only worked during special events and some of them were effectively dismissed from their jobs through not being given shifts, being excluded from training and being removed from email lists and so on. Senior members of staff were subject to de facto demotion as new roles were created that superceded roles they had carried out for years. Overtime was no longer optional and breaks were actively discouraged, it wasn't uncommon on a busy weekend to work 14 hours without stopping to eat.

If you asked me for a specific example of me being bullied I'd struggle to give one, I can stand up for myself. However I was aware a culture that fuelled bullying and harassment existed. Younger members of staff were treated as scapegoats, senior staff from the old management were systematically driven out of their jobs and it became a horrible environment to work in. I can't say I shed many tears recently when I heard the business was struggling.

the situation you’ve just described is spookily similar to a situation with a company I worked for before my current employer.
Screamed at daily by senior management, unachievable targets being set then disciplinary action when unsurprisingly not being met, working 60+ hour weeks because of policy changes and that I/we should just ‘deal with it’, and more.

It became so ingrained, that when I moved to my current job, my new boss would make a point if checking in with me once or twice a week, until after a few weeks, she gently pointed out that I never started a conversation with her unless I had a problem, and that it was not only ok but encouraged that I could and should be able to have a conversation just to say hi, etc. I realised I had become so hemmed in by the working practices of the senior management at my previous job of ‘don’t contact me unless there’s a massive problem, and be prepared to be torn a new one when you do’, that I hadn’t even noticed it until she showed me.

where I work now has an incredible atmosphere, doing a job that I really enjoy, it’s night and day to the **** storm of the previous place. And like you PB, I didn’t shed many tears when that business went under (with the exception of a few former colleagues).

[marinello59]

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Are you suggesting that teachers weren't really after a payrise when the public accused them of getting greedy? Because i'm pretty sure they were.

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Then why did you make that point then? Why would the public automatically assume that they are after more money? What is your basis for this claim?

You seem to be arguing for two opposing points here. I’m lost.

The point I think MSK was making is that the company offered a pay rise the drivers didnt ask for. That looks like a cynical attempt to shift focus from what appears to be a genuine grievance from the drivers given that the company have acknowledged that management do need to make changes.

[MSK]

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Then why did you make that point then? Why would the public automatically assume that they are after more money? What is your basis for this claim?

I probably should have added that is my mates thoughts and as I said, he has been with LRT a long time so he knows how it works. However I will add to that.

I worked many years ago as a Drayman, great but very physical job, brewery management, all ex Draymen or Heriot brewery operatives, great guys and gave great support. Then there came a shift, all of the brewery management were offered a financial package/redundancy. In came micro managers, brutal guys with absolutely no brewery or man management skills.

For example we had 30 dray lorries with load capacity of 9 tons but for working safety they would each carry no more than 6 tons. Some drays would do 6 tons and come back for another 2/3 tons and that would be their days work.

Management had other ideas, they would halve the fleet, offer redundancy to the long term employees then have the others carrying the tonnage. It was a disaster, we had meeting after meeting but all we got was threats. We decided to take industrial action, Edinburgh/Glasgow and Dundee depots. The action was either full on strike or work to rule.

No sooner had those actions been discussed the news hit the pubs, publicans were up in arms, I remember going to Swannys bar at Ratcliffe terrace and we were confronted by the owner and a couple of his patrons who after pretty much calling us greedy *******s wanted to know who would deliver their beer. This continued over many a week and months, some understood but others were not prepared to listen to our side, they just wanted their beer.

A while later after speaking to a retired brewery rep he told me management had an emergency meeting with them and tech services and were to drip feed to publicans that we were requesting a sizeable wage increase. Lies lies and damned lies, we were on great pay and we got great incentives added so wage rise was never an issue.

Thats how those dirty *******s operated, it got worse, much worse. So I can draw parallels on how the LRT guys are feeling about their situation.

So there you have it, I now await your spin on things 👍

[Fife-Hibee]

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I probably should have added that is my mates thoughts and as I said, he has been with LRT a long time so he knows how it works. However I will add to that.

I worked many years ago as a Drayman, great but very physical job, brewery management, all ex Draymen or Heriot brewery operatives, great guys and gave great support. Then there came a shift, all of the brewery management were offered a financial package/redundancy. In came micro managers, brutal guys with absolutely no brewery or man management skills.

For example we had 30 dray lorries with load capacity of 9 tons but for working safety they would each carry no more than 6 tons. Some drays would do 6 tons and come back for another 2/3 tons and that would be their days work.

Management had other ideas, they would halve the fleet, offer redundancy to the long term employees then have the others carrying the tonnage. It was a disaster, we had meeting after meeting but all we got was threats. We decided to take industrial action, Edinburgh/Glasgow and Dundee depots. The action was either full on strike or work to rule.

No sooner had those actions been discussed the news hit the pubs, publicans were up in arms, I remember going to Swannys bar at Ratcliffe terrace and we were confronted by the owner and a couple of his patrons who after pretty much calling us greedy *******s wanted to know who would deliver their beer. This continued over many a week and months, some understood but others were not prepared to listen to our side, they just wanted their beer.

A while later after speaking to a retired brewery rep he told me management had an emergency meeting with them and tech services and were to drip feed to publicans that we were requesting a sizeable wage increase. Lies lies and damned lies, we were on great pay and we got great incentives added so wage rise was never an issue.

Thats how those dirty *******s operated, it got worse, much worse. So I can draw parallels on how the LRT guys are feeling about their situation.

So there you have it, I now await your spin on things 👍

This is all well and fair enough. But what you're giving me here is your own personal experience on things witnessed through your own eyes and processed by your own mind.

I'm pretty sure if I was discussing this with someone who was working management at the time, they'd have their own take on events. Mentioning things that you perhaps haven't. Or spinning things in a different way to suit their own personal narrative.

There are far more employees out there than there are employers. So the balance of narrative is and always has been in the hands of the employees.

[MSK]

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This is all well and fair enough. But what you're giving me here is your own personal experience on things witnessed through your own eyes and processed by your own mind.

I'm pretty sure if I was discussing this with someone who was working management at the time, they'd have their own take on events. Mentioning things that you perhaps haven't. Or spinning things in a different way to suit their own personal narrative.

There are far more employees out there than there are employers. So the balance of narrative is and always has been in the hands of the employees.

Oh ffs, there you go again, ok just to suit your spin, I made it all up, management were great, fully supportive, no agenda, and we all lived happily ever after.

Hows that ? 👍

[Fife-Hibee]

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Oh ffs, there you go again, ok just to suit your spin, I made it all up, management were great, fully supportive, no agenda, and we all lived happily ever after.

Hows that ? 👍

You talk about spin, then suggest i'm accusing you of making things up. Would you care to point out where i've made such accusations?

You seem very determined that people only understand it from your own point of view, ignoring the reasonable suggestion that there are other view points out there.

[McD]

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You talk about spin, then suggest i'm accusing you of making things up. Would you care to point out where i've made such accusations?

You seem very determined that people only understand it from your own point of view, ignoring the reasonable suggestion that there are other view points out there.

[MSK]

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You talk about spin, then suggest i'm accusing you of making things up. Would you care to point out where i've made such accusations?

You seem very determined that people only understand it from your own point of view, ignoring the reasonable suggestion that there are other view points out there.

I posted a lot of what my mate has said as he is a current bus driver. I have no reason to disbelieve him and I added my experience that relates to his. Im not expecting you to believe anything but you have thrown in chat about the school teachers pay rise which has nothing whatsoever to do with the proposed LRT strike so you have baffled me with that.

So far we know the strike action is about bullying by management and I have thrown in stuff from my mate who is a current driver. You are looking for something else.

The strike has nothing to do with wage increases and has **** all to do with Teachers.

The proposed bus rally has been cancelled by LRT management due to the impending strike and not because of lack of driver availability.

Im out now so the floor is all yours 👍

[Future17]

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You talk about spin, then suggest i'm accusing you of making things up. Would you care to point out where i've made such accusations?

You seem very determined that people only understand it from your own point of view, ignoring the reasonable suggestion that there are other view points out there.

Your involvement in this thread reads like a total car crash and your position is the same as a drunk driver, swerving about all over the place unsure of what line to take.

You probably could have said something like; "there are two sides to every story, so I won't be forming an opinion until I'm satisfied I know enough of the detail" and left it at that. Unfortunately, you're so intent on arguing and noising people up that you'll find a way to try and justify a position that's contradictory to what the majority of others have said, then express that position in an aggressive/patronising/dismissive way.

Of course, when the subject matter is subjective, everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, as other posters have noted on this thread and others, you carry on this pattern of being contrary until you're caught out on something factual and someone proves you to be wrong, which you then refuse to acknowledge and simply avoid the thread for a few days.

You are the Donald Trump of Hibs.net.

[Hibbyradge]

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You seriously think 90% of eligible drivers, with an 80% turnout, voted for strike action because of one incident?

This is just a further example of your scattergun, inconsistent approach to every topic. You rant away about Tories this and Tories that and then a local industrial dispute sees you immediately take up a position against local workers arguing for improved working conditions. For all your slavish devotion to SNP rhetoric when you go 'off piste' you often appear as though you would be right at home amongst the more extreme Tories you claim to despise.

[Pete]

I wonder who will be manning this skeletal service.

Hell mend any drivers who cross a picket line. It wouldn’t be me anyway, not for all the tea in China.

[beensaidbefore]

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Walk, cycle, use another bus provider, take a train. There are a few options to consider.

He does make a good point. I will be facing a 2hr walk to work as there are no alternatives for where I need to get to/from.

Not exactly best pleased at the prospect.

[we are hibs]

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He does make a good point. I will be facing a 2hr walk to work as there are no alternatives for where I need to get to/from.

Not exactly best pleased at the prospect.

Im with you. I live too far away to walk and it would be a 3 and a half hour walk for me rather than the hour and a bit bus journey. Be a nightmare trying to get to easter road next saturday too.

[Scouse Hibee]

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Im with you. I live too far away to walk and it would be a 3 and a half hour walk for me rather than the hour and a bit bus journey. Be a nightmare trying to get to easter road next saturday too.

I thought it was a one day strike action?

[we are hibs]

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I thought it was a one day strike action?

I was under the assumption that it was until it was resolved. Might be wrong.

https://twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/...580541955?s=19


Just seen this

[Radium]

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This is all well and fair enough. But what you're giving me here is your own personal experience on things witnessed through your own eyes and processed by your own mind.

I'm pretty sure if I was discussing this with someone who was working management at the time, they'd have their own take on events. Mentioning things that you perhaps haven't. Or spinning things in a different way to suit their own personal narrative.

There are far more employees out there than there are employers. So the balance of narrative is and always has been in the hands of the employees.

As you say, managers are capable of spinning things.

You do seem fairly invested in characterising the management as blameless in the situation but there appears to be little being put forward to back up why.

Two things jump out from the information in the public domain.

The Union don’t understand the grievances: otherwise why have they recommended deals that have been overwhelming rejected.

The management are including in the agreement a commitment to tackle the bullying culture. That included bringing in management consultants.

The solution will come from something that addresses the toxic relationship that the union are now clearly reporting. There may be faults on both sides but the culture of an organisation is driven by management and they need to demonstrate how they are going to fix it.






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[Scouse Hibee]

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I was under the assumption that it was until it was resolved. Might be wrong.

https://twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/...580541955?s=19


Just seen this

Ah you’re right, I didn’t realise that it was the start of continuous strike action. A right pain for those affected.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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As you say, managers are capable of spinning things.

You do seem fairly invested in characterising the management as blameless in the situation but there appears to be little being put forward to back up why.

Two things jump out from the information in the public domain.

The Union don’t understand the grievances: otherwise why have they recommended deals that have been overwhelming rejected.

The management are including in the agreement a commitment to tackle the bullying culture. That included bringing in management consultants.

The solution will come from something that addresses the toxic relationship that the union are now clearly reporting. There may be faults on both sides but the culture of an organisation is driven by management and they need to demonstrate how they are going to fix it.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

seems clear to me that the drivers haven’t articulated what the grievance is. The public don’t know and their own union don’t get it.

The first question surely asked is “what is it you want me to do?”

[speedy_gonzales]

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Not everybody is in walking distance of their work. Not everybody is able to cycle to their work either. You also assume that an alternative bus provider or train is an available option to all. It isn't.

Telling people to boycott a service due to a strike that nobody really knows any of the details behind is ridiculous.

Depends what you think walking distance is!
Also, I have made no assumptions. On the arterial routes in to Edinburgh there ARE alternative services.
The area that Lothian Buses cover (traditional maroon buses) is perhaps Wallyford to Gorebridge, over to Penicuik, Balerno to East Craig's through Leith back to Wallyford.
For those that can, there are options. They won't be easy, as quick or as cheap, but there ARE options.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Depends what you think walking distance is!
Also, I have made no assumptions. On the arterial routes in to Edinburgh there ARE alternative services.
The area that Lothian Buses cover (traditional maroon buses) is perhaps Wallyford to Gorebridge, over to Penicuik, Balerno to East Craig's through Leith back to Wallyford.
For those that can, there are options. They won't be easy, as quick or as cheap, but there ARE options.

Many people around the outskirts of the city only have lothian routes to rely on. The only "alternative" is forking out taxi fares. Extortionate if you're working a minimum wage job somewhere around the city centre. Let's not kid on this isn't going to be a major complication for a sizable amount of people.

Unless they get clear on what exactly it is they're trying to achieve through strike action, they're not going to build up much public sympathy.

[speedy_gonzales]

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Many people around the outskirts of the city only have lothian routes to rely on.

For example,,,,

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The only "alternative" is forking out taxi fares.

Only? Surely not!

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Let's not kid on this isn't going to be a major complication for a sizable amount of people.

Of course it is, what better way to focus the minds of those around the negotiating table.

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Unless they get clear on what exactly it is they're trying to achieve through strike action, they're not going to build up much public sympathy.

It would appear you are incorrect. It can be seen from here and other platforms as well as speaking face to face with bus users that members of the public do seem aware that there is a toxic management within the company and although there will be a massive inconvenience there is an element of sympathy and support for the drivers. That's not to say everyone is in support,,,,

[Bristolhibby]

Coming up for the game on Saturday with my two boys.

A major ball ache to get from the Braids to ER, but support the drivers 100%. It does ya well to be reminded that the workers are the most important part in the system. Will just have to make other arrangements.

Taxi drivers will be making a fortune.

J

[speedy_gonzales]

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A major ball ache to get from the Braids to ER,

J

Have you thought about using Borders Buses that come in from Penicuik to the bus station then a 15 minute walk down to ER?