Drug deaths in Scotland highest in EU

[Cataplana]

Years ago I worked with a guy, who was conservative in his views.

He said the solution to Glasgow's Heroin problem was to give the addicts two weeks notice that lethal Heroin was going to be put on the streets.

He sort of thought that would give people two weeks to get clean, or face the prospect of being eliminated.

I sometimes wonder if he is in charge of drug policy now. People are taking industrial quantities of street Diazepam, cut with God knows what.

The consequence is 2000 deaths, which is really the tip of the iceberg. You have the number of near misses, and hospital admissions to consider,as well.

It has to be time to ensure a safe supply whilst working on the reasons people take drugs.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Anything that gets rid of the drug taking/dealing bitch that occupies one of the tenement flats in my stair will do me, ****bag! 😠

[Fife-Hibee]

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Anything that gets rid of the drug taking/dealing bitch that occupies one of the tenement flats in my stair will do me, ****bag! 😠

Dealing is a serious crime. Have you reported them to the authorities?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Dealing is a serious crime. Have you reported them to the authorities?

Eh? Once or twice!

[James310]

Have any of the expers looked if the increase in the price of alcohol in Scotland has had an impact. A bottle of Frosty Jack's is probably now more expensive than a small bag of Heroin.

Saying that I have no idea how much a small bag of Heroin costs so could be nonsense.

[Sylar]

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Have any of the expers looked if the increase in the price of alcohol in Scotland has had an impact. A bottle of Frosty Jack's is probably now more expensive than a small bag of Heroin.

Saying that I have no idea how much a small bag of Heroin costs so could be nonsense.

Thinktank I work for did some analysis last year to see what the impact was of the increase - in spite of the price rise, purchases and consumption both increased last year but a large part of this was attributed to both the weather and that it was a World Cup year.

[Smartie]

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Have any of the expers looked if the increase in the price of alcohol in Scotland has had an impact. A bottle of Frosty Jack's is probably now more expensive than a small bag of Heroin.

Saying that I have no idea how much a small bag of Heroin costs so could be nonsense.

A friend of mine was a huge advocate of the legalisation of cannabis.

He used to describe the effect of inflation on a "unit" of cannabis - it didn't have any effect, and it had been the same price for as long as he had used it.

He was a big believer in legalising and taxing the life out of it, the same was as is done with cigarettes and alcohol, where the majority of the price increase is related to an ongoing increase in taxation.

[The Modfather]

I can see the benefits to legalising drugs, tax and less dangerous quality of drugs than there are now. However is there a risk of drugs becoming socially acceptable which in turn leads to more people trying them than if they were still illegal. Like alcohol, I’m sure drugs will affect different people in different ways. Is there a chance we could then see a more noticeable negative impact of drug users in our day to day lives if they were legalised?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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I can see the benefits to legalising drugs, tax and less dangerous quality of drugs than there are now. However is there a risk of drugs becoming socially acceptable which in turn leads to more people trying them than if they were still illegal. Like alcohol, I’m sure drugs will affect different people in different ways. Is there a chance we could then see a more noticeable negative impact of drug users in our day to day lives if they were legalised?

Yes.

[Ozyhibby]

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I can see the benefits to legalising drugs, tax and less dangerous quality of drugs than there are now. However is there a risk of drugs becoming socially acceptable which in turn leads to more people trying them than if they were still illegal. Like alcohol, I’m sure drugs will affect different people in different ways. Is there a chance we could then see a more noticeable negative impact of drug users in our day to day lives if they were legalised?

I would say tobacco is becoming less socially acceptable every day despite still being legal. Whether something is socially acceptable is up to us as a society.


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[Fife-Hibee]

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I can see the benefits to legalising drugs, tax and less dangerous quality of drugs than there are now. However is there a risk of drugs becoming socially acceptable which in turn leads to more people trying them than if they were still illegal. Like alcohol, I’m sure drugs will affect different people in different ways. Is there a chance we could then see a more noticeable negative impact of drug users in our day to day lives if they were legalised?

Drugs are already at the point where they're deemed socially acceptable. You can find dealers dealing in broad daylight in busy towns now. Stand in the centre of Edinburgh and ask around. You'd be hooked up in less than 10 minutes.

Having safe spaces to go to will keep them out of the public eye making it harder for people to seek out drugs. Keeping members of the public safe and vulnerable drug users safe as well.

[Cataplana]

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I can see the benefits to legalising drugs, tax and less dangerous quality of drugs than there are now. However is there a risk of drugs becoming socially acceptable which in turn leads to more people trying them than if they were still illegal. Like alcohol, I’m sure drugs will affect different people in different ways. Is there a chance we could then see a more noticeable negative impact of drug users in our day to day lives if they were legalised?

The Dutch experience tends to suggest we wouldn't. Likewise the increasing legality of recreational drugs in the USA would suggest most people will use responsibly.

There is far too much use of morality in the formation of drug policy.

[lord bunberry]

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Drugs are already at the point where they're deemed socially acceptable. You can find dealers dealing in broad daylight in busy towns now. Stand in the centre of Edinburgh and ask around. You'd be hooked up in less than 10 minutes.

Having safe spaces to go to will keep them out of the public eye making it harder for people to seek out drugs. Keeping members of the public safe and vulnerable drug users safe as well.

Your first paragraph is untrue, the second is spot on.

[danhibees1875]

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Have any of the expers looked if the increase in the price of alcohol in Scotland has had an impact. A bottle of Frosty Jack's is probably now more expensive than a small bag of Heroin.

Saying that I have no idea how much a small bag of Heroin costs so could be nonsense.

It's an interesting point. I'm not sure how you would measure it though. You could probably draw correlation between the two, not that it would necessarily prove much by itself.
Even if it was the case that there was any causation there, I don't think I'd feel comfortable blaming what I believe to be a positive social move to combat the alcohol problem for being the cause of the increase in drug death. That's a bit of a no win situation.



There's been a few comments, earlier in the thread mostly, around where the control lies to tackle the issue. I assume it's a bit of a grey area where some lies in Scotland and some Westminster. Can anyone suggest what it is we could be trying to do which would be achieved if the decision making capabilities were at Holyrood rather than Westminster?

There's a BBC article that wraps up 5 possible solutions quite neatly, I think it follows a lot of the ideas in this thread well:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48921696

Decriminalisation - I assume this is Westminster
Safe consumption rooms - the article points out that the Scottish government want this but can't implement as it's reserved.
Tackling poverty and homelessness - my understanding would be there are going to be various ways to address this, split between Holyrood and Westminster.
Harm reduction - not sure where it lies
Reduce stigma - surely a local issue, Holyrood or councils.

I'm not sure about decriminalisation, at least not across everything. I don't fully understand the harm reduction one either. The rest seem like good ideas though.

[Mibbes Aye]

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It's an interesting point. I'm not sure how you would measure it though. You could probably draw correlation between the two, not that it would necessarily prove much by itself.
Even if it was the case that there was any causation there, I don't think I'd feel comfortable blaming what I believe to be a positive social move to combat the alcohol problem for being the cause of the increase in drug death. That's a bit of a no win situation.



There's been a few comments, earlier in the thread mostly, around where the control lies to tackle the issue. I assume it's a bit of a grey area where some lies in Scotland and some Westminster. Can anyone suggest what it is we could be trying to do which would be achieved if the decision making capabilities were at Holyrood rather than Westminster?

There's a BBC article that wraps up 5 possible solutions quite neatly, I think it follows a lot of the ideas in this thread well:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48921696

Decriminalisation - I assume this is Westminster
Safe consumption rooms - the article points out that the Scottish government want this but can't implement as it's reserved.
Tackling poverty and homelessness - my understanding would be there are going to be various ways to address this, split between Holyrood and Westminster.
Harm reduction - not sure where it lies
Reduce stigma - surely a local issue, Holyrood or councils.

I'm not sure about decriminalisation, at least not across everything. I don't fully understand the harm reduction one either. The rest seem like good ideas though.

Homelessness sits with local authorities but with a big SG influence.

Harm reduction sits with health boards, ADPs and third sector organisations that do frontline work.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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It's an interesting point. I'm not sure how you would measure it though. You could probably draw correlation between the two, not that it would necessarily prove much by itself.
Even if it was the case that there was any causation there, I don't think I'd feel comfortable blaming what I believe to be a positive social move to combat the alcohol problem for being the cause of the increase in drug death. That's a bit of a no win situation.



There's been a few comments, earlier in the thread mostly, around where the control lies to tackle the issue. I assume it's a bit of a grey area where some lies in Scotland and some Westminster. Can anyone suggest what it is we could be trying to do which would be achieved if the decision making capabilities were at Holyrood rather than Westminster?

There's a BBC article that wraps up 5 possible solutions quite neatly, I think it follows a lot of the ideas in this thread well:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48921696

Decriminalisation - I assume this is Westminster
Safe consumption rooms - the article points out that the Scottish government want this but can't implement as it's reserved.
Tackling poverty and homelessness - my understanding would be there are going to be various ways to address this, split between Holyrood and Westminster.
Harm reduction - not sure where it lies
Reduce stigma - surely a local issue, Holyrood or councils.

I'm not sure about decriminalisation, at least not across everything. I don't fully understand the harm reduction one either. The rest seem like good ideas though.

How is reducing stigma a good idea? Until it's legal that would be a 'mare. I'll make it clear I'm only bothered about what's happening literally on my doorstep, and whilst 1 out of 6 tenants in the stair cause hassle, anything that gets her to **** will do us.

[danhibees1875]

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Homelessness sits with local authorities but with a big SG influence.

Harm reduction sits with health boards, ADPs and third sector organisations that do frontline work.

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How is reducing stigma a good idea? Until it's legal that would be a 'mare. I'll make it clear I'm only bothered about what's happening literally on my doorstep, and whilst 1 out of 6 tenants in the stair cause hassle, anything that gets her to **** will do us.

I took it to mean the stigma around addiction and asking for help.

[Betty Boop]

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Scotland had a knife crime problem, and although still not completely eradicated, we tackled it because we had all the tools in the box to do so.

Not one person worldwide has died in a drugs consumption room, but the UK gov continually refuse use to introduce them.

Once again we're fighting a problem with one had tied behind our backs.

There are many difficulties trying to deal with drug deaths, however, until we get ALL the powers to do so, you'll see next years figures, larger than this year.

The SNP have cut funding to alcohol and drug partnerships for the last twelve years.

[Cataplana]

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I took it to mean the stigma around addiction and asking for help.

I don't think stigma is a barrier to people seeking help. It is hopelessness and lack of any self esteem, secondary to things like lack of status, and trauma.

[ronaldo7]

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The SNP have cut funding to alcohol and drug partnerships for the last twelve years.

£2.6 billion cut to our pocket money in the last ten years.

Once again, a devolved matter is trying to be fixed with a Scottish sticking plaster.

[James310]

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£2.6 billion cut to our pocket money in the last ten years. You can only pish with the cock you have.

Once again, a devolved matter is trying to be fixed with a Scottish sticking plaster.

It's shameful that after 10 years in power you still blame Westminster for this, the Scottish Government take no responsibility at all? Seeing you are probably the biggest grievance monkey on here it's not a surprise.

Why are deaths in Scotland so much higher with exactly the same policy then?

[ronaldo7]

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It's shameful that after 10 years in power you still blame Westminster for this, the Scottish Government take no responsibility at all? Seeing you are probably the biggest grievance monkey on here it's not a surprise.

Why are deaths in Scotland so much higher with exactly the same policy then?

Your post is rather derogatory, and personal but I will respond.

Your last paragraph is wrong, their were more deaths in England than Scotland last year.

The drugs issue is deep and varied, from poverty and young people not having many life chances. We need a broad suite of powers to deal with the problem. We don't have those. powers.

[James310]

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Your post is rather derogatory, and personal but I will respond.

Your last paragraph is wrong, their were more deaths in England than Scotland last year.

The drugs issue is deep and varied, from poverty and young people not having many life chances. We need a broad suite of powers to deal with the problem. We don't have those. powers.

Derogatory and personal? You having a laugh? You are the one that is called out for the wee personal digs, you never liked it when someone else pulled you up on it did you.

Scotland has the highest rate of drug related deaths in Europe, yet you blame Westminster, how very predicable.

[ronaldo7]

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Derogatory and personal? You having a laugh? You are the one that is called out for the wee personal digs, you never liked it when someone else pulled you up on it did you.

Scotland has the highest rate of drug related deaths in Europe, yet you blame Westminster, how very predicable.

I've been asked to pull you up on your language by your pal. Just doing as I was asked.

You'll find the figures are correct. Over 3000 drug deaths in England last year.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2018/08/08/drug-misuse-deaths-fall-but-still-remain-too-high/&ved=2ahUKEwjdlc2fjL3jAhUCQEEAHc4SCOsQFjAHegQIBRAB &usg=AOvVaw2IjRzwAU9GHRI1FZKSjsPN

[Crunchie]

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It might if the power to do it lay in Scotland. There's next to no chance of UK gov run by Tories doing it though.

The decision made by the snp to create Police Scotland had a major negative effect. Drug dealing went unchecked in many areas for lengthy periods and drug squads were disbanded. Priority was given over to robbery and housebreaking.

[Crunchie]

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In a country where opportunities are systematically kept to a bare minimum for young people, is it any surprise to anyone that there is such a major drug issue here?

Young people are not invested in. We're not given the budget that allows us to invest in young people. We have a UK Government that only takes care of their own (the OAPs that vote for them).

So it's either turn away and leave this country, or stay here and have no real prospects in life and turn to whatever is available to pass the time.

What complete and utter tosh. You make it sound like we're still in the late 70s, 80s. You actually sound like my old man 40yrs ago.

[Crunchie]

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I honestly have no idea.

As a parent of a very young child it is pretty scary.

I grew up in a small town that is blighted by drugs and it is hard to look back and work out why some folk got dragged in and ended up losing their lives, some nearly did, some avoided it altogether and some had a good time dallying with recreational drugs and alcohol without being dragged in any further.

I would say that's an experience shared by many. I grew up in a poor housing estate in North Edinburgh and lost almost half my classmates from secondary school to heroin in the 80s.

[speedy_gonzales]

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Why are deaths in Scotland so much higher with exactly the same policy then?

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Your last paragraph is wrong, their were more deaths in England than Scotland last year.

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Scotland has the highest rate of drug related deaths in Europe, yet you blame Westminster, how very predicable.

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You'll find the figures are correct. Over 3000 drug deaths in England last year.

Gents, I assume we're talking "pro rata" here, I think you know it, I think we all know it, yet you argue like two bald men over a comb.

Scotland has the highest rate of drug related deaths in Europe, pro rata,,,, brilliant, like our unhealthy relationship with alcohol it seems we really have to be the best at pressing that self destruct button.

[Cataplana]

Disappointing that when people are dieing that supporters of different political parties choose to argue about whose fault it is

2000 deaths in Scotland is a much higher per capita rate than 3000 in England. It's pettiness like that that causes you to despair.

Our drug problem was not caused by one set of politicians, but all politicians - the whole lot have blood on their hands. It has been the fear of introducing radical change and upsetting core voters that has caused them to persist down the same flawed path for decades.

The war on drugs is nothing more than a war on poor people. It is way of distracting the rest from their plight by focussing on their supposed morality. Much easier to say it's their fault due to their lifestyles than to admit that they are failing due to a failed system.

Time to shift this particular red herring onto the sidelines. The thought that this debate could generate into a party v party pissing contest sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

[lord bunberry]

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Disappointing that when people are dieing that supporters of different political parties choose to argue about whose fault it is

2000 deaths in Scotland is a much higher per capita rate than 3000 in England. It's pettiness like that that causes you to despair.

Our drug problem was not caused by one set of politicians, but all politicians - the whole lot have blood on their hands. It has been the fear of introducing radical change and upsetting core voters that has caused them to persist down the same flawed path for decades.

The war on drugs is nothing more than a war on poor people. It is way of distracting the rest from their plight by focussing on their supposed morality. Much easier to say it's their fault due to their lifestyles than to admit that they are failing due to a failed system.

Time to shift this particular red herring onto the sidelines. The thought that this debate could generate into a party v party pissing contest sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

Well said.