This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThis quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteI was merely pointing out to the other poster that his statement was in fact, wrong. I know that the figures are pro rata, and are heading in the wrong direction in Scotland. They've been halted slightly in England but are still too high.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The RESERVED issue of drugs policy has been challenged on a number of occasions and still we're told, NO.
One death in Scotland is one too many, that's why I'll continue to support the Scottish Government in their endeavours to change the policy.
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18-07-2019 06:07 AM #91
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18-07-2019 06:23 AM #92
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In my post above, I've mentioned that we had the tools to deal with our knife crime epidemic, and are winning that battle. It's governments that make policy, and like it or not, as I've said, if we continue on the same path, next years figures will increase, and we'll probably still be asking for the policy to change.
We don't have all the answers here, so why not look elsewhere, where they've had success.
I'm all for trying.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it
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18-07-2019 06:34 AM #93
Drug and alcohol abuse in Scotland has been a problem long before any powers were devolved to the Scottish parliament. To pretend that throwing money at the problem without taking other measures will make it go away is madness. Scotland can't try another approach because it's hands are tied by laws made in London. The carrot and stick approach doesn't work, especially when you only control the carrot.
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18-07-2019 07:01 AM #94
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Portugal is a step in the right direction. However, they haven't really tackled the issue of supply. This means that there is still a large amount of criminal activity surrounding drugs.
Personally, I would like to see drug use become a matter of personal choice and responsibility. We don't regulate dangerous sports like climbing, why should we regulate drugs?
We always come back to alcohol. Consumption and supply of alcohol are pretty much in the domain of the free market. Only the most desperate consume unsafe products.
To me passing the matter onto health, and social services is passing power over people's lives from one set of suits to another.
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18-07-2019 07:13 AM #95
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PMs questions yesterday and a great opportunity to press the PM about how the Scottish Governments hands are tied, but no Ian Blackford thinks a question about Donald Trump is obviously more important.
Priorities?
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18-07-2019 07:14 AM #96This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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18-07-2019 07:44 AM #97This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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18-07-2019 08:08 AM #98
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It doesnt absolve people of responsibility to others. However the only real impact that drug use has on others is to offend their sense of right and wrong.
Are we really so sensitive that the sight of a 55 year old man chewing his face off is grounds for calling the police? I am just as bothered by the fact he acts and talks like a 25 year old, but I don't expect legislation to regulate that.
You come across all sorts of annoying and reprehensible people at matches. It is the person that is the problem, not the drug. The fact is that when these tools go home and come down they are actually quite proud of their behaviour .
Let's be honest the worst period of football hooliganism,had nothing to do with drugs. Young (and those who think they are young) men will act in that way whatever drug you offer.
Personally, I think all seated stadia are part of the problem here. You can't move away from the trouble makers like you used too
Edit: I think there is a much bigger problem with people standing in places like the East Terracing. Sooner or later there is going to be a tragedy because of it. That doesn't get the same outraged response that a few people acting like fsnnies on cocaine does.
Why not turn the problem on its head. Start selling weed and ecstacy at the ground, it the rest of the crowd was monged, or loved up, the coke heads would look even bigger knobbers than they do right now.
Regulate the behaviour, not the drug. Most cocaine users don't go to football matches in big gangs - it's a red herring.
Let's be honest, what harm do drugs really do to other people, compared to other forms of anti social behaviour.Last edited by Cataplana; 18-07-2019 at 08:19 AM.
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18-07-2019 08:15 AM #99
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Drug addiction is largely a matter of personal choice, as was demonstrated at the end of the Vietnam war.
Heroin abuse was endemic amongst GIs. There was a fear that they would bring the problem home with them. It didn't happen, suggesting that it was a problem with the individual rather than the drug.
Evidence suggests that, with a supply of medicinal quality heroin, people can lead productive lives .
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18-07-2019 08:38 AM #100This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
To answer your question on priorities…….here you go:
https://www.snp.org/were-taking-urge...rug-emergency/Last edited by Curried; 18-07-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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18-07-2019 09:02 AM #101This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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18-07-2019 09:05 AM #102
So let me get this right.
So far we have had rather predictable responses from the most avid Indy supporters that of course there is nothing that can be done unless they have MORE power and MORE money and not one tiny bit of humility that maybe the existing powers and money that are used and spent have failed to prevent a large spike in numbers.
The we had Fife prattling on about how the youth of today are not invested in and face a simple choice of a life of drug and destitution or getting the hell out of Dodge! Oh and of course that it’s all Westminster’s fault as well.
The we had some sensible comments about the complexity of the matter, how there is multiple agencies, laws, approaches involved in dealing with the issues and the drivers behind the problem....a huge number of which lie as a devolved or local level.
Then it was good to read a number of posters suggestions and discussions around decriminalisation and legalisation, areas that would need significant devolution of powers. These approaches however do not seem to be anywhere near the minds of the Scottish populace as a whole nor the SG in terms of topics of concern or manifesto pledges.
Finally we had a suggestion to sell weed and ecstasy at the games!! Must admit I thought that was the most out there idea so far and would, at least as a one off, make for a rather interesting event!
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18-07-2019 09:20 AM #103This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
You should do this on every thread - the RyeSloan TL;DR
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18-07-2019 09:24 AM #104This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
So there
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18-07-2019 09:24 AM #105
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Obviously Trump is a greater priority for Blackford who failed to bring it up at all.Last edited by James310; 18-07-2019 at 09:28 AM.
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18-07-2019 10:22 AM #106
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[QUOTE=JeMeSouviens;5848959]The MRTs are all volunteers and climbers themselves. Plus there are significant health benefits from being fit enough to haul yourself up mountains and mental health benefits too, it's very mindful.
So there[/QUOTE
Lol.
There are less dangers and as many benefits to mental health from safe drug taking than mountain climbing.
Otherwise, why do drugs exist?
On a serious note, the first step has to be reducing the death rate at present, by reducing risks from poor quality drugs, and tackling the reasons why people take them in the first place.
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18-07-2019 10:24 AM #107
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If this is a uniquely Scottish problem (10 x as many deaths as England) and it requires a uniquely Scottish solution, is it too much to ask that the chattering classes on both sides develop an uncharacteristically Scottish approach, and stop blaming each other?
Scotland has had a problem with self loathing, and self destruction for decades, and if its any comfort no one party has ownership on the cause of it.Last edited by Cataplana; 18-07-2019 at 10:30 AM.
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18-07-2019 10:34 AM #108This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Tackling reasons is a much longer term thing obv but I think our short term crisis response has to be centred on harm reduction and getting as many problem addicts into treatment as possible.Last edited by JeMeSouviens; 18-07-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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18-07-2019 10:45 AM #109
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You are going down a classic route regarding the effects that drugs have on people. I am saying criminalise the behaviours you cause not their consumption or possession.
At the end of the day, if someone wants to sustain brain damage falling off the Ptarmigan ridge, or to sustain it taking one too many acid trip, what's the difference.
Apparently if someone beats someone else's brains out in a boxing ring, it's OK because there is a health benefit (except, obviously to the guy whose brains were beaten in). Meanwhile, in the Netherlands they have been working on the benefits of LSD in combatting psychosis, but it seems there is a moral aspect to that, or a lack of faith in people's ability to look after themselves?
Your statement is full of contradictions, and poorly evidenced statements, I''m afraid. People have taken narcotics for millenia because of the benefits to their mental health. It is not the drug that is the problem, but the individual, and to a lesser extent the influence of criminality.
We could argue all day about the evidence about drug use damaging society. For me, it's like alcohol, many people use it responsibly; very few become addicted; it is a very addictive substance. Give the individual the facts and allow them to make a choice, and the vast majority of people will not put their lives, or mental health at risk.
Put the control in the hands of criminal justice, or the health service, or moral guardians like social work, and consumption is done covertly, and irresponsibly. Can I point out that Portugal's drug consumption has gone down since de criminalisation? The central tenet is that people can choose sensibly.
I am proposing a radical solution, and we are getting off track from the thread. People are going to take drugs, let's cut the death rate, and start to work on the reasons people take drugs.Last edited by Cataplana; 18-07-2019 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Afterthought.
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18-07-2019 10:52 AM #110
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First thing first, stop the deaths by making it possible for them to use safely. Basically, keep them alive long enough for them to make the choice to stop, then when they are ready to have robust support in place - which includes offering them opportunities to have more fulfilled lives in future.
As part of that, I would advocate the return of "The British System" for registered addicts, allowing them access to clean supply of drugs. At the same time though, I would not allow anyone to use drug abuse as any sort of defence for anti social behaviour, if that means replacing the honerous Methadone supply programme in jailes with clean Heroin, then that's how it should be.
In the short term, there would be widespread abuse of the system, and we would have to be able to discourage addicts from other countries heading up here, as the Dutch and Swiss did. It may take a generation to see real benefits.
The long term solution goes much deeper into the society we live in, and would involve improved trauma care, and the prospect of something better than sitting in your own bodily fluids - such as a life that doesn't involve sitting in Muirhouse, or Irvine staring at the rain falling outside your window.Last edited by Cataplana; 18-07-2019 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Geographical reference.
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18-07-2019 10:56 AM #111This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I don't really think it does require a uniquely Scottish solution anyway. The things that would help the acute Scottish crisis would also help in rUK. But there is no urgency to do anything other than be "tough on drugs" from the UK gov, so if we're waiting on policy changes from there, we may be waiting a long time ...
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18-07-2019 11:05 AM #112
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18-07-2019 11:44 AM #113
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18-07-2019 11:56 AM #114
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I also can't ignore the fact that health and criminal justice are devolved matters, as is wealth creation.
Against that background, Scotland appears to have a much more serious problem than the rUK.
I personally suspect that there is a large element of "the Glasgow factor" at play here. Namely a nihilistic attitude to life that is uniquely Scottish, which results in reckless drug taking behaviour - abuse of street Diazepam is a most prevalent in Scotland.
I am more concerned that politicians within Scotland pull together, and don't use this as a political football. Within or outwith devolution this is a problem that needs dealt with now.
It is very depressing to see the familiar pattern of Scottish politics coming out on here. We need to move on from "a big boy did it and ran away" and take ownership of our own private problems
The seperatusts need to say, "why has this happened on our watch?", the Unionists need to say "why is their not a UK solution forthcoming?"
Most of all, a genuine compassion for and understanding is required by both. I am sick of them blaming each other when people are miserable now.
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18-07-2019 12:00 PM #115This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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18-07-2019 12:03 PM #116
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Part of the problem for the guy who owns his business is he gets off his face on coke then needs to get some sleep so takes downers, but he's on it dveryweekend, plus mdma, Es, and would be up for trying most things with the exception of heroin/crack. Sure there must be others out there who operate the same way. Not sure how you tackle the issue because he was big on legal highs when they were readily available, so not sure having stuff readily available over a counter would work for folk like him.
I do believe that having it regulated and taxed would work better than the current set up though.
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18-07-2019 12:10 PM #117This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I suppose I was more rather despairing that every subject, no matter how complex, seems to attract Indy / Unionist chatter...even when Scotland has a clear and obvious issue over and above the rest of the UK and, by these stats at least, the EU.
There is clearly a whole shed load of money and effort put into health, education, policing etc. in the areas that could effect outcomes here but rather than simply debate the issue at hand (which may of course come up with some suggestions where further devolved powers may assist) the go to modus operandi of some just seems to point fingers of blame. And in doing so make a complex issue one that is broken into the usual binary choice of Indy or not.
Anyway I’m not gonna get too upset about something that seems to happen on every thread on here and from largely the same posters that seem to spam every thread with unsubstantiated sounds bites to turn any topic into something to justify their cause.
Right that’s me had my wee moan...I’m off to do something rather more constructive instead
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18-07-2019 12:15 PM #118
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I mean, I wouldn't chose to live like that, but he appears to be keeping it together.
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18-07-2019 12:15 PM #119
Whether a unionist or Indy supporter, one thing is clear. The current devolution settlement is not working in this matter. The fact that both govts can point the finger of blame is not right and needs changed.
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18-07-2019 12:15 PM #120
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