Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[Hibrandenburg]

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https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...mpression=true


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In the current political climate it will win him many votes in England. He's not as daft as he looks.

[JeMeSouviens]

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In the current political climate it will win him many votes in England. He's not as daft as he looks.

The big winners of this policy are rich, English pensioners. Coincidentally (I'm sure) the exact demographic of the largest part of the Tory party membership he wants to elect him.

[Smartie]

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He’s Teflon though. He’s like Trump, nothing seems to put off his core support down south.


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It will be interesting to see what effect sticking the knife into his core support up here will have though.

[JeMeSouviens]

10 got enough support to stand:

• Michael Gove
• Matt Hancock
• Mark Harper
• Jeremy Hunt
• Sajid Javid
• Boris Johnson
• Andrea Leadsom
• Esther McVey
• Dominic Raab
• Rory Stewart

First round of MP votes on Thursday.

[cabbageandribs1875]

7/10..Boris Johnson
4/1... jeremy hunt
9/1....Andrea Leadsom
16/1..Gove
20/1...sajid javid
25/1.. Dominic Raab
33/1.. Rory Stewart
40/1...jeremy corbyn...gies a break
66/1...Farage
100/1..matthew hancock
125/1..David Liddington
150/1..philip hammond
150/1..mark harper
200/1..Esther Mcvey....nae chance
200/1..jo swinson...stop it

[ronaldo7]

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Bet Ruth says nowt.


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This'll be the union dividend they keep talking about.

Ingsh will be lapping it up using his broad shoulders to doff cap and pay up.

[lapsedhibee]

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I wouldn't object to Rory Stewart or Sam Gyimah (he did a lot of good as Universities' minister), but neither will get through the first round of voting.

Tory leadership contests have a tradition of not going according to plan, so there's a smidgeon of hope that Stewart might get further than expected ...

[stokesmessiah]

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Tory leadership contests have a tradition of not going according to plan, so there's a smidgeon of hope that Stewart might get further than expected ...

Can only see Boris getting it. Newsnight says he has 64 voted compared to Gove and ****** who both have 34. If he goes to the last two the wider party will vote him in no bother.

[lapsedhibee]

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Can only see Boris getting it. Newsnight says he has 64 voted compared to Gove and ****** who both have 34. If he goes to the last two the wider party will vote him in no bother.

BoJoke may be nobody's second choice, though, and when others drop out their supporters might not at all split in his favour. There's 313 Tory MPs, so 64 isn't a scary number.

Mon the minnows!

[SHODAN]

I can see the Tory MPs forcing Boris out and putting Gove & Hunt to the members.

[Ozyhibby]

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BoJoke may be nobody's second choice, though, and when others drop out their supporters might not at all split in his favour. There's 313 Tory MPs, so 64 isn't a scary number.

Mon the minnows!

Problem is that backers of Raab, McVey etc are going to switch to Boris when they get knocked out.


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[lapsedhibee]

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I can see the Tory MPs forcing Boris out and putting Gove & Hunt to the members.

What, and frustrate the will of the party? Wouldn't that be a betrayal of democracy etc but also, more importantly, ******* hilarious? I would quite literally laugh my knee off.

[Mibbes Aye]

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I can see the Tory MPs forcing Boris out and putting Gove & Hunt to the members.

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Problem is that backers of Raab, McVey etc are going to switch to Boris when they get knocked out.


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What, and frustrate the will of the party? Wouldn't that be a betrayal of democracy etc but also, more importantly, ******* hilarious? I would quite literally laugh my knee off.

There was an interesting article a couple of weeks or so ago, in the Guardian or the Telegraph, probably the latter (sorry, can’t recall) which challenged the orthodoxy and argued that the Tory leadership race could end up with a final two who were centrists, relatively speaking. By centrists they meant the likes of Hunt, which I found challenging as a start

Part of the argument was that while Boris has a healthy lead amongst Tory party members, there is a residual fear that he is too divisive or reckless to command the all-important majority, come the GE. While the shires lap up his rhetoric, as the final vote grows closer the nervousness increases about whether he will blow it later on, Boris-style, and deny the Conservatives what they perceive as their natural place in government.

This feeds into what local Conservative Associations tell their MPs and emboldens the MPs to back alternatives.

I’m not fully convinced - he genuinely is very popular amongst the party membership and if he makes it to the final two it would be a coronation I guess. By the same token, I could easily imagine Stewart having a good run before running out of votes, then switching his caucus to Matt Hancock perhaps, with us ending up with a Hancock-Hunt play-off.

I think a lot depends on how Gove and Hunt do. As the field is whittled down, a lot of votes will be reallocated. I suspect Hunt is the more likely to garner these than Gove but the latter didn’t hurt himself by taking the fight to Boris today. Gove v Hunt is definitely in play.

For those of us who are interested in politics for politics’ sake, it is fascinating. Unfortunately it is scary that this exercise has the potential for such damaging consequences.

[Bostonhibby]

What scares me is very few of us will have a say in who our next undemocratically elected minority leader will be.

Instead it's being left to folk who are probably more at home judging the most interesting shaped vegetable contest at the village fete.

They probably think all the candidates are young whippersnappers and they'd like someone more representative of their group, Anthony Eden or Harold Macmillan would probably win hands down if someone managed to sneak their name onto the ballot papers, Fluffy the cat would have a chance on the same basis.

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[Ozyhibby]

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There was an interesting article a couple of weeks or so ago, in the Guardian or the Telegraph, probably the latter (sorry, can’t recall) which challenged the orthodoxy and argued that the Tory leadership race could end up with a final two who were centrists, relatively speaking. By centrists they meant the likes of Hunt, which I found challenging as a start

Part of the argument was that while Boris has a healthy lead amongst Tory party members, there is a residual fear that he is too divisive or reckless to command the all-important majority, come the GE. While the shires lap up his rhetoric, as the final vote grows closer the nervousness increases about whether he will blow it later on, Boris-style, and deny the Conservatives what they perceive as their natural place in government.

This feeds into what local Conservative Associations tell their MPs and emboldens the MPs to back alternatives.

I’m not fully convinced - he genuinely is very popular amongst the party membership and if he makes it to the final two it would be a coronation I guess. By the same token, I could easily imagine Stewart having a good run before running out of votes, then switching his caucus to Matt Hancock perhaps, with us ending up with a Hancock-Hunt play-off.

I think a lot depends on how Gove and Hunt do. As the field is whittled down, a lot of votes will be reallocated. I suspect Hunt is the more likely to garner these than Gove but the latter didn’t hurt himself by taking the fight to Boris today. Gove v Hunt is definitely in play.

For those of us who are interested in politics for politics’ sake, it is fascinating. Unfortunately it is scary that this exercise has the potential for such damaging consequences.

You would need 2/3 of Tory mp’s to vote for those two in an even split to beat Boris. I can’t see it happening unless Boris does something stupid. And he appears to have enough self awareness to know that’s possible so he is staying away from campaigning as much as possible.


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[lapsedhibee]

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You would need 2/3 of Tory mp’s to vote for those two in an even split to beat Boris. I can’t see it happening unless Boris does something stupid. And he appears to have enough self awareness to know that’s possible so he is staying away from campaigning as much as possible.

Or some past stupidity gets a relentless spotlight put on it. Is that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe still in jail in Iran for spying?

[Bostonhibby]

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Or some past stupidity gets a relentless spotlight put on it. Is that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe still in jail in Iran for spying?

https://www.change.org/p/free-nazani...te&utm_term=cs

Still there, Boris has put some clear blue water between himself and that indiscretion by the looks of it.

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[stokesmessiah]

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There was an interesting article a couple of weeks or so ago, in the Guardian or the Telegraph, probably the latter (sorry, can’t recall) which challenged the orthodoxy and argued that the Tory leadership race could end up with a final two who were centrists, relatively speaking. By centrists they meant the likes of Hunt, which I found challenging as a start

Part of the argument was that while Boris has a healthy lead amongst Tory party members, there is a residual fear that he is too divisive or reckless to command the all-important majority, come the GE. While the shires lap up his rhetoric, as the final vote grows closer the nervousness increases about whether he will blow it later on, Boris-style, and deny the Conservatives what they perceive as their natural place in government.

This feeds into what local Conservative Associations tell their MPs and emboldens the MPs to back alternatives.

I’m not fully convinced - he genuinely is very popular amongst the party membership and if he makes it to the final two it would be a coronation I guess. By the same token, I could easily imagine Stewart having a good run before running out of votes, then switching his caucus to Matt Hancock perhaps, with us ending up with a Hancock-Hunt play-off.

I think a lot depends on how Gove and Hunt do. As the field is whittled down, a lot of votes will be reallocated. I suspect Hunt is the more likely to garner these than Gove but the latter didn’t hurt himself by taking the fight to Boris today. Gove v Hunt is definitely in play.

For those of us who are interested in politics for politics’ sake, it is fascinating. Unfortunately it is scary that this exercise has the potential for such damaging consequences.

I can't see the tories putting Hunt in. He is just such an unpopular character after the "job" he done with the NHS. I don't think he is electable in a GE.

[Fife-Hibee]

Just how depressing do things have to get until enough people in Scotland have had enough?

[stokesmessiah]

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Just how depressing do things have to get until enough people in Scotland have had enough?

I guess the next few months will tell us where we are at ?

[Fife-Hibee]

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I guess the next few months will tell us where we are at ?

Because the past several years haven't told us enough apparently.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Just how depressing do things have to get until enough people in Scotland have had enough?

Here's hoping for this one to be telling the truth.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48596991

[makaveli1875]

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Just how depressing do things have to get until enough people in Scotland have had enough?

Do people actually get depressed about politics ?

A friend wants to know

[Hibrandenburg]

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Do people actually get depressed about politics ?

A friend wants to know

I have a friend who had to fight several months to get his disability allowance continued. He's pretty depressed.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Boris Johnson as prime minister would be proof positive that accident of birth is still incredibly significant in Britain. Here is someone who believed from childhood that he would be prime minister; that he was born to it and it's his right. Imagine growing up being so secure of your place in the world, confident that, like so many Old Etonians, you are born to rule. What an embarrassment to this country, which totally undermines the lip service politicians pay to a supposed meritocracy and equality of opportunity. Our society remains medieval in so many ways, as the luck of draw continues to determine one's destiny. As a Conservative Johnson wishes to conserve this state of affairs. I despise him and the values he represents.

[James310]

So if Boris gets his tax cut it means higher public spending in Scotland. Now hands up those who were fooled by the SNPs false claims that Scottish people would be funding it.

https://twitter.com/petermacmahon/st...689303558?s=19

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14169

We hate it when parties don't tell us the truth don't we? I mean that includes all parties, doesn't it?

[Hibernia&Alba]

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So if Boris gets his tax cut it means higher public spending in Scotland. Now hands up those who were fooled by the SNPs false claims that Scottish people would be funding it.

https://twitter.com/petermacmahon/st...689303558?s=19

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14169

We hate it when parties don't tell us the truth don't we? I mean that includes all parties, doesn't it?

Tax cuts means higher public spending? So we're back to Laffer Curves and 'growing the cake' are we? Follow that to its logical conclusion: what happens to public spending if all taxes are cut to zero?

[James310]

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Tax cuts means higher public spending? So we're back to Laffer Curves and 'growing the cake' are we? Follow that to its logical conclusion: what happens to public spending if all taxes are cut to zero?

Who said anything about zero?

Just making the small point that sometimes what you are told by the SNP and what is splashed across the papers is not all it seems. I am sure if I never pointed this out quite a few would have never have known the truth. Happy to help.

[makaveli1875]

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Who said anything about zero?

Just making the small point that sometimes what you are told by the SNP and what is splashed across the papers is not all it seems. I am sure if I never pointed this out quite a few would have never have known the truth. Happy to help.

Maybe we need an SNP are lying *******s thread.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Who said anything about zero?

Just making the small point that sometimes what you are told by the SNP and what is splashed across the papers is not all it seems. I am sure if I never pointed this out quite a few would have never have known the truth. Happy to help.

I've always found the idea of lower taxes meaning more revenue amusing and Orwellian. Even Professor Laffer himself conceded that his idea related only to the tiny few at the very top of the income scale, not the mass of the population. It was/is a self-serving fantasy, which I'm sure Boris Johnson still believes the majority are stupid enough to accept as verisimilitude.