The EU Referendum (How did you vote?)

[Hibbyradge]

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I've covered this already and i'm not typing it out all over again. So feel free to look back through the pages.

In short, Labour could have remained in Government but chose not to.

That's just not true as I have already pointed out, but like you, I don't want to type it all out again.

The SNP moved the motion of no confidence and they went on to vote Labour out of government. It was 100% their fault which is why the were known as the Tartan Tories for decades.

[Tornadoes70]

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1. Factual? No it's not a factual comment, it's an opinion. And I'm guessing it's an opinion based on no evidence whatsoever.
2. Similarly your view that independence (as I prefer to call it) will have major downsides. Again, this is not a fact but an opinion, and not one I share.
3. "Newly named"? What has the name of the currency, and specifically how new the name is, got to do with its value?
4. "Worth less than the current UK pound". Well I give you some credit for referring to the current value of the pound as a marker. Because if no deal goes ahead the UK pound will tank considerably. So who knows how any Scottish currency may rate against GBP. I expect it's a complicated question. I'm certainly not qualified in macro economics to sufficiently answer it.
5. I really don't think my post qualifies anywhere close to being "ranting". It was more just a comment.
6. FYI here's a definition of the word "fact"; "a thing that is known or proved to be true".

At least your post above is slightly better than telling folk who try to give intelligent opinion that they're 'making stuff up'. Kudos for at least trying to counter argument a post that you disagree with.

Anyone that has even the slightest bit of knowledge in how currency markets operate would most likely agree with me that any newly formed newly named stand alone Scottish currency would be worth considerably less than long established ones especially the big ones such as the UK Pound and Dollar no matter if they the big currencies suffer dips as they will inevitably recover.

In my genuine opinion.

[Hibbyradge]

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Separatism will of course have major downsides. None more so than inventing a new currency that would have to find its level. Factual no?

I'm surmising a newly formed and newly named Scottish currency will be worth considerably less than than that of the current UK pound.

If you want to disagree with me why not come on here counter arguing just why any proposed new Scottish currency would remain at the same levels or even worth more than the current UK pound instead of ranting about posters 'making stuff up' when its their genuine opinion.

An independent Scotland would have it's own currency which would be worth more than the pound.

There you go. My genuine opinion.

[Moulin Yarns]

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That's just not true as I have already pointed out, but like you, I don't want to type it all out again.

The SNP moved the motion of no confidence and they went on to vote Labour out of government. It was 100% their fault which is why the were known as the Tartan Tories for decades.

A correction, the snp approached the Liberals for support for a no confidence motion, meanwhile Thatcher brought a one day debate on this house has no confidence in the government.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Irrelevant as well you know. The UK pound is worth the same whether or not its English or Scottish etc. Any newly formed newly named standalone isolated Scottish currency would be worth considerably less than it is today whatever it was called.

I understand nats will say literally anything but come on its not even remotely credible to state any newly formed newly named isolated Scottish currency would be worth the same or near the current UK pound.

It lacks credibility and appears desperate in my opinion.

I think you've missed the whole point of having money. Visitors to Scotland will pay for goods in the currency that is asked for. They're not here to buy our pounds, groats, Euro, dollars or shark's teeth. The value of that currency will ultimately depend on the value of the goods or services we provide and not what we call it.

[Hibbyradge]

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A correction, the snp approached the Liberals for support for a no confidence motion, meanwhile Thatcher brought a one day debate on this house has no confidence in the government.

Ok. Still, the SNP wanted a Tory government. They wanted Thatcher in power and they got their wish.

[Tornadoes70]

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An independent Scotland would have it's own currency which would be worth more than the pound.

There you go. My genuine opinion.

That's entirely fair enough. You won't ever see me telling a poster that they're making stuff up. I may tell them they're wrong and disagree with them but hey ho.

It would be nice if you'd inform us why you think a newly formed newly named isolated Scottish currency would be worth more than the current UK pound or is just a feeling in your water so to speak?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Irrelevant as well you know. The UK pound is worth the same whether or not its English or Scottish etc. Any newly formed newly named standalone isolated Scottish currency would be worth considerably less than it is today whatever it was called.

I understand nats will say literally anything but come on its not even remotely credible to state any newly formed newly named isolated Scottish currency would be worth the same or near the current UK pound.

It lacks credibility and appears desperate in my opinion.

Why is your knowledge (not just on this subject) so superior compared to the vast majority of the electorate who disagree with you?

Mon tell us!

[JeMeSouviens]

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At least your post above is slightly better than telling folk who try to give intelligent opinion that they're 'making stuff up'. Kudos for at least trying to counter argument a post that you disagree with.

Anyone that has even the slightest bit of knowledge in how currency markets operate would most likely agree with me that any newly formed newly named stand alone Scottish currency would be worth considerably less than long established ones especially the big ones such as the UK Pound and Dollar no matter if they the big currencies suffer dips as they will inevitably recover.

In my genuine opinion.

So is your reasoning that currencies of big countries are worth more than those of small ones? A quick look at a historical Swiss Franc vs GBP chart should soon put that right.

Scotland's currency will be backed by a significant asset base: oil, water, renewable energy, etc. If the transition via sterlingisation is reasonably prudent then there's no reason to think markets would lack confidence in our economy. If Brexit and Indy both happen I would be amazed if Scotland's currency does not diverge to be stronger than rUK's within a decade or so. Admittedly that confidence is mostly to do with £ inevitably tanking but still ...

[Tornadoes70]

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I think you've missed the whole point of having money. Visitors to Scotland will pay for goods in the currency that is asked for. They're not here to buy our pounds, groats, Euro, dollars or shark's teeth. The value of that currency will ultimately depend on the value of the goods or services we provide and not what we call it.

The international money markets and speculative investors will decide how much any newly formed newly named standalone Scottish currency was worth set against the big currencies such as the Dollar and UK pound etc.

Any new currency will inevitably fluctuate up or down until finally settling down. My money would be on the new currency being worth considerably less than the current UK Pound level.

In my opinion.

[G B Young]

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False news. 11 snp MPs, 15 liberals, 5 Northern Ireland unionists and an independent voted aye, so to suggest it was all the fault of the big bad snp is untrue.

Maybe not ALL the fault, but there's no denying Thatcher had to rely on those 11 SNP votes to win the motion of no confidence.

[Fife-Hibee]

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That's entirely fair enough. You won't ever see me telling a poster that they're making stuff up. I may tell them they're wrong and disagree with them but hey ho.

It would be nice if you'd inform us why you think a newly formed newly named isolated Scottish currency would be worth more than the current UK pound or is just a feeling in your water so to speak?

So somebody else is wrong if you disagree with them? I'm glad you've got this right and wrong thing pinned down. We need someone who can't explain the rights and wrongs of the universe to us.

[Tornadoes70]

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Why is your knowledge (not just on this subject) so superior compared to the vast majority of the electorate who disagree with you?

Mon tell us!

You wouldn't be posting that if I was a nat separatist and arguing in the same way for independence, would you?

I don't think you would so going to ignore you and your posting from now on.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Maybe not ALL the fault, but there's no denying Thatcher had to rely on those 11 SNP votes to win the motion of no confidence.

....and rely on Labours refusal to make use of the pairing convention.

But hey ho.

[Ozyhibby]

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So is your reasoning that currencies of big countries are worth more than those of small ones? A quick look at a historical Swiss Franc vs GBP chart should soon put that right.

Scotland's currency will be backed by a significant asset base: oil, water, renewable energy, etc. If the transition via sterlingisation is reasonably prudent then there's no reason to think markets would lack confidence in our economy. If Brexit and Indy both happen I would be amazed if Scotland's currency does not diverge to be stronger than rUK's within a decade or so. Admittedly that confidence is mostly to do with £ inevitably tanking but still ...

The currency if it happens will almost certainly be pegged to the pound. If it was to come off the peg then it is more likely to rise due to the fact that we are an oil producing country and most oil producing countries have to work hard to keep their currency competitive. That’s why the Norwegians spend all their oil money abroad because they don’t want their currency rising to high and wrecking the rest of their economy.
It will suit the unionists to say that it will be worthless though so we’ll just have to put up with that.


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[Fife-Hibee]

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You wouldn't be posting that if I was a nat separatist and arguing in the same way for independence, would you?

I don't think you would so going to ignore you and your posting from now on.

At this rate, you'll have the entire site ignored. Saves the admins a job I suppose.

[G B Young]

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I've covered this already and i'm not typing it out all over again. So feel free to look back through the pages.

In short, Labour could have remained in Government but chose not to.

I don't think I saw that. Is it on this thread? I'd be interested in reading what you had to say but it might take a while to track down.

However, whether or not Labour could have remained in government I don't imagine it alters the fact that Thatcher needed the SNP MPs on her side to be sure of winning the vote of no confidence - and hence paving the way for the general election which swept the Tories back into power. The SNP can attempt to distance themselves from it all they want, but no matter how often they spit out the word Tory these days it's undeniable that they played a key role in bringing about 18 years of Conservative government.

[Tornadoes70]

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At this rate, you'll have the entire site ignored. Saves the admins a job I suppose.

If I get barred for giving my genuine opinions which I'm certain most folk would agree show a level of intelligence and normally polite enough then I wouldn't want to be on here anyway.

Not all Hibs supporters are nat separatists and certainly shouldn't feel afraid to come on a Hibs supporters forum to offer their own differing opinions other than nat ones.

[Hibbyradge]

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That's entirely fair enough. You won't ever see me telling a poster that they're making stuff up. I may tell them they're wrong and disagree with them but hey ho.

It would be nice if you'd inform us why you think a newly formed newly named isolated Scottish currency would be worth more than the current UK pound or is just a feeling in your water so to speak?

I think the new name that you band on about will be an exciting name and people will want to buy our currency.

Even more importantly, the English pound will go through the floor when we leave Europe with no deal. We will lose our ability to export anything because of tariffs but we'll have to let everything in with zero tariff.

Scotland will rejoin Europe, we will be in the single market and our goods will become attractive again.

We will also be able to flood E&W with our exports as they will be tariff free.

Bring it on.

[Hibbyradge]

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....and rely on Labours refusal to make use of the pairing convention.

But hey ho.

That's just a lie.

[Fife-Hibee]

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If I get barred for giving my genuine opinions which I'm certain most folk would agree show a level of intelligence and normally polite enough then I wouldn't want to be on here anyway.

Not all Hibs supporters are nat separatists and certainly shouldn't feel afraid to come on a Hibs supporters forum to offer their own differing opinions other than nat ones.

You're not getting barred. You do however run the risk of barring yourself by sticking everybody on ignore that you don't agree with.

[Tornadoes70]

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I think the new name that you band on about will be an exciting name and people will want to buy our currency.

Even more importantly, the English pound will go through the floor when we leave Europe with no deal. We will lose our ability to export anything because of tariffs but we'll have to let everything in with zero tariff.

Scotland will rejoin Europe, we will be in the single market and our goods will become attractive again.

We will also be able to flood E&W with our exports as they will be tariff free.

Bring it on.

Its certainly a very positive opinion.

Thought you wanted independence not to shift power and control over to even further away big guns Germany and France who literally control the EU, ask Greece how that went for them when they big guns took over their economy slashing government spending and public services.

[Fife-Hibee]

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I don't think I saw that. Is it on this thread? I'd be interested in reading what you had to say but it might take a while to track down.

However, whether or not Labour could have remained in government I don't imagine it alters the fact that Thatcher needed the SNP MPs on her side to be sure of winning the vote of no confidence - and hence paving the way for the general election which swept the Tories back into power. The SNP can attempt to distance themselves from it all they want, but no matter how often they spit out the word Tory these days it's undeniable that they played a key role in bringing about 18 years of Conservative government.

Not typing it out again - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_v...ard_Weatherill

Labour knew the economy was in a mess and didn't want to be the party to make tough economic decisions. It suited them for the tories to take over. Just as it suits them now for the tories to remain in power to sort this brexit mess out themselves.

[Hibbyradge]

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Its certainly a very positive opinion.

Thought you wanted independence not to be shift power and control over to the big guns Germany and France who literally control the EU, ask Greece how that went for them when they big guns took over their economy slashing government spending and public services.

I want an independent Scotland in the EU.

Every country in the EU is independent of each other.

Your argument is facile.

[Fife-Hibee]

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That's just a lie.

Which you know full well isn't - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_v...ard_Weatherill

[Fife-Hibee]

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Its certainly a very positive opinion.

Thought you wanted independence not to shift power and control over to even further away big guns Germany and France who literally control the EU, ask Greece how that went for them when they big guns took over their economy slashing government spending and public services.

What exactly did the EU do to Greece? Greece ran it's own economy into the ground, just as Italy are. They would have been sunk completely without the European Union, which is why they're still very much in the European Union. They could leave anytime, but chose not to.

[Hibbyradge]

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Not typing it out again - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_v...ard_Weatherill

Labour knew the economy was in a mess and didn't want to be the party to make tough economic decisions. It suited them for the tories to take over. Just as it suits them now for the tories to remain in power to sort this brexit mess out themselves.

Stop making things up because you're ashamed of the truth.

Next you'll be telling me that they asked the SNP to vote the Tories into power.

The SNP wanted Thatcher in No.10 and they voted to help her get there.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Stop making things up because you're ashamed of the truth.

Next you'll be telling me that they asked the SNP to vote the Tories into power.

The SNP wanted Thatcher in No.10 and they voted to help her get there.

So you're saying it's all a lie then and that Labour didn't turn down the opportunity to remain in Government? Despite it being pointed out to you multiple times?

[Hibbyradge]

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Which you know full well isn't - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_v...ard_Weatherill

It's a lie that Labour refused the pairing arrangement. It was much more complex than that and if it hadn't been the SNPs desire to see Thatcher in power, it would never have been required.

[Tornadoes70]

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I want an independent Scotland in the EU.

Every country in the EU is independent of each other.

Your argument is facile.

We do very well as part of the UK however we'd be a minnow compared to the big fish Germany and France as an 'independent' nation within the EU. I'm very surprised that anyone would be so naive to think otherwise and lacks credibility in my opinion.