Brexit - What Now.

[Hibbyradge]

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Using football analogies on a politics thread, wow, HR will be along any minute taking issue that we're not proper debaters .

It's not like you to miss the point, but I'll exclude you from my generalisation about debaters.

You're clearly a Master.

[ancient hibee]

The only thing certain about that election is that the vast majority of the electorate exercised their democratic choice to stay at home and have nothing to do with it.I read someone in the Scottish Government saying Scotland has spoken and the SNP has shown the way-16% of the electorate-wow.

[Ozyhibby]

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The only thing certain about that election is that the vast majority of the electorate exercised their democratic choice to stay at home and have nothing to do with it.I read someone in the Scottish Government saying Scotland has spoken and the SNP has shown the way-16% of the electorate-wow.

Since when did we start counting the votes of people who didn’t vote? And specifically counting them for one side or the other? If you don’t vote it doesn’t matter what you think.


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[James310]

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Since when did we start counting the votes of people who didn’t vote? And specifically counting them for one side or the other? If you don’t vote it doesn’t matter what you think.


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So much for Scotland was engaged in politics though?

It was actually less than 15% of eligible voters that voted SNP, but Scotland has spoken, all 15% of them.

[Hibbyradge]

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So much for Scotland was engaged in politics though?

It was actually less than 15% of eligible voters that voted SNP, but Scotland has spoken, all 15% of them.

That's a pretty good sample though.

[SHODAN]

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So much for Scotland was engaged in politics though?

It was actually less than 15% of eligible voters that voted SNP, but Scotland has spoken, all 15% of them.

If anything, this strengthens the argument for mandatory voting laws. Politicians couldn't wriggle out of the "oh but it's not a representative sample" argument any more.

Of course, whilst the current government is in power this won't happen, because the demographics most likely to vote are on the whole partisan voters for them.

[JeMeSouviens]

John Bercow on whether parliament has a means to stop no deal:

"The House will have its say. The idea that Parliament is going to be evacuated from the centre stage of debate on Brexit is unimaginable. It is simply unimaginable."

[Bangkok Hibby]

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John Bercow on whether parliament has a means to stop no deal:

I like this guy. Looking forward to his autobiography

[Ozyhibby]

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So much for Scotland was engaged in politics though?

It was actually less than 15% of eligible voters that voted SNP, but Scotland has spoken, all 15% of them.

Oh, so we are counting people who don’t vote for your side now. I suppose when you poll 12% or less you have to try something.


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[JeMeSouviens]

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Oh, so we are counting people who don’t vote for your side now. I suppose when you poll 12% or less you have to try something.


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Updated Tory figure for today's new Holy Ground reality - 4.7%

[HappyAsHellas]

A tory remainer mp on the radio yesterday said he would not vote with a vote of no confidence even if it meant leaving with no deal, as anything was better for the UK than a Corbyn government. Faced with losing his job, a politician will do anything he can to stay on the gravy train. People imagining that a no deal scenario would be voted down by conservatives have to realise that this would mean relying on a tory with a conscience - a very rare breed indeed.

[James310]

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Oh, so we are counting people who don’t vote for your side now. I suppose when you poll 12% or less you have to try something.


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All parties obviously had low %s of eligible voters when turnout was so low, but I keep hearing how Scotland is engaged with politics etc when that clearly is not the case. If the 'winning' party has less than 15% of the eligibile votes then I am not sure we can read too much into it.

[Peevemor]

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All parties obviously had low %s of eligible voters when turnout was so low, but I keep hearing how Scotland is engaged with politics etc when that clearly is not the case. If the 'winning' party has less than 15% of the eligibile votes then I am not sure we can read too much into it.

Crikey. Traditionally the turnout is crap for European elections, but any excuse to trash the SNP eh?

And even with a low turnout, the results give a more accurate representation of the moood of the country than any opinion poll and quite clearly the majority in Scotland support staying in the EU and have no faith in neither Labour nor the Tories.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Crikey. Traditionally the turnout is crap for European elections, but any excuse to trash the SNP eh?

And even with a low turnout, the results give a more accurate representation of the moood of the country than any opinion poll and quite clearly the majority in Scotland support staying in the EU and have no faith in neither Labour nor the Tories.

Perhaps these might be useful ...

[James310]

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Crikey. Traditionally the turnout is crap for European elections, but any excuse to trash the SNP eh?

And even with a low turnout, the results give a more accurate representation of the moood of the country than any opinion poll and quite clearly the majority in Scotland support staying in the EU and have no faith in neither Labour nor the Tories.

Well the mood of the nation suggests Indy has not moved at all since 2014. Even after Nicola Sturgeon saying vote for the SNP in these elections even if you are against Indy. So despite the absolute shambles of the last few years no further forward.

[Peevemor]

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Well the mood of the nation suggests Indy has not moved at all since 2014. Even after Nicola Sturgeon saying vote for the SNP in these elections even if you are against Indy. So despite the absolute shambles of the last few years no further forward.

That's your take on it, as long as it helps you feel better.

[James310]

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That's your take on it, as long as it helps you feel better.

What's your take?

[lapsedhibee]

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A tory remainer mp on the radio yesterday said he would not vote with a vote of no confidence even if it meant leaving with no deal, as anything was better for the UK than a Corbyn government. Faced with losing his job, a politician will do anything he can to stay on the gravy train. People imagining that a no deal scenario would be voted down by conservatives have to realise that this would mean relying on a tory with a conscience - a very rare breed indeed.

Pity he wasn't also asked what he would do if there was no chance of a Corbyn government, ie if Labour had a proper leader in place.

[lapsedhibee]

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Perhaps these might be useful ...

… not sure they would, as they are - or are about to be - illegal here.

[JeMeSouviens]

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… not sure they would, as they are - or are about to be - illegal here.

Sheesh! Mr Picky

Ok, just for you ...

[lapsedhibee]

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Sheesh! Mr Picky

Ok, just for you ...

That's more like it.

Mon Green.

[Peevemor]

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What's your take?

For me it's pretty clear that the Scottish electorate are losing any little faith they had left in the big 2 Westminster parties. The reasons are numerous and obvious, but above all I think the total disregard and lack of respect shown by Corbyn, May et al toward the will of the majority of Scots has come back to bite their bums.

[James310]

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For me it's pretty clear that the Scottish electorate are losing any little faith they had left in the big 2 Westminster parties. The reasons are numerous and obvious, but above all I think the total disregard and lack of respect shown by Corbyn, May et al toward the will of the majority of Scots has come back to bite their bums.

Do you think the vote shows an increased appetite for Indy as the SNP are today claiming? I don't see that myself. Ian Blackford saying the result has 'cemented' the case for IndyRef2 but why?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Well the mood of the nation suggests Indy has not moved at all since 2014. Even after Nicola Sturgeon saying vote for the SNP in these elections even if you are against Indy. So despite the absolute shambles of the last few years no further forward.

You're making a glaring error equating the EU result to how an Indy Ref would pan out. It suits the "nothing has changed, no point in having one" narrative.

[James310]

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You're making a glaring error equating the EU result to how an Indy Ref would pan out. It suits the "nothing has changed, no point in having one" narrative.

It's not me saying it 'cements' the requirement for IndyRef2 though, it's Ian Blackford.

[Peevemor]

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Do you think the vote shows an increased appetite for Indy as the SNP are today claiming? I don't see that myself. Ian Blackford saying the result has 'cemented' the case for IndyRef2 but why?

Politicians, including those of the SNP, will spin any result to their advantage. It's up to the voting public to remain as informed as possible.

The European elections can only be compared with the results of previous European elections.

For example, I voted Green (there's no SNP in Brittany), but I wouldn't necessarily do so in a national election.

In any case, the pro-indy parties came out on top of those who voted. Of course the SNP are going to milk that.

[Fife-Hibee]

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It's not me saying it 'cements' the requirement for IndyRef2 though, it's Ian Blackford.

IndyRef2 was already cemented when the SNP went back to Westminster with a majority of seats with a referendum commitment in their manifesto. The European election simply shows the stark difference in the directions Scotland and rUK are taking.

[BroxburnHibee]

I intended this thread to be a discussion on the 31/10 deadline and the likelihood of it happening.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I intended this thread to be a discussion on the 31/10 deadline and the likelihood of it happening.

Vanishingly unlikely I think.

[Bostonhibby]

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What is his position (daft question I know!)?

As far as I can tell it’s that he still backs Brexit but will only call a second ref on a revised deal and only if that’s after a GE?

But he has no position on what happens without a GE?

He's the slightly vague hesitant guy with the beard who normally sits somewhere near Dianne Abbott.

Sadly the current manifestation of the party I've always supported is rudderless, leaderless and lost touch with a fair percentage of it's natural support who are not part of the activist movement steering it down a path of irrelevance to everyone but themselves.

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